Anyone else here "Orange" and feeling pissed on?

[Tyler Durden]

I think it's about time for the "PROD" and other slurs to end.

How many of you would "alert" a thread calling you "bitch" or "whore"? Time for the slurs to stop.

You know something? There is enough blame over in that poor, bleeding country to go around. I suggested that ALL murderers in Ireland, no matter which side or religion, be DAMNED TO HELL WITH BUSH.

SLANDERED as I have been for NOT being Irish AND Catholic, WITH ACTUAL RELATIVES DEAD ON THE STREETS OF COUNTY ARMAGH TO MOURN, I am STILL prepared TO BURY THE HATCHET.

Is there anyone with me?

And By the way, I have also have family that were hung for aiding "Bonny Prince Charlie" in Scotland, relatives who stood with Wolfe on the Plains of Abraham, Hessians who killed "colonials", Canadians who died in Flanders, and relatives who died in the trenches of 1918 as Englishmen. Time to cut the shit, kiddies. We ALL have dead relatives, and no one is free to piss on their graves or to dig new ones for filling.

[AllieB]

1. I can almost guarantee that the folks using such terms

are very far removed from the boat (Potato Famine Irish). I'm sorry that they're being so rude. I have seen this attitude in action here in the Boston area. I'm Irish-American Catholic (mostly) and I find the attitudes that you describe ridiculous. Everyone is Irish on St. Paddy's Day!

[frankly_fedup2]

16. That's right . . . everyone is Irish on St. Patrick's Day . . . or . . .

we can pretend to be and drink the green beer.

Question? What is a PROD?

Also, as far as language, that doesn't bother me as much as someone posting absolutely horrible photos inside their posts, but they do not post a warning before opening. I find that much more horrible then name calling.

Can't we work out some sort of system here? Kinda like the film industry. Photos that are distressful and show dead, blown up bodies (especially babies).

Maybe for photos we could put P-17+ or graphic photos. If it is filled with language that a lot of us would prefer not to read put L-17+ or graphic language on the subject line.

Just an idea folks :hi:

[Tyler Durden]

19. A "PROD" is a an Irish Protestant...

To be spoken by certain people like a KKK member would say "nigger." And NO, it's not co-equal, just a slur. and ugly. AND MORONIC to be spoken by MORONS.

Sorry. I'm not pissed at you. And I never post pics. I'm too old and don't have the time.

[mdmc]

2. peace

[Vinnie From Indy]

3. I still think the Irish have a bit of a beef with the English

for that whole forced starvation genocide thing way back when. I am all for resolving the issues in Ireland in a peaceful way.

[Bridget Burke]

4. Let's not compare body counts....

There's nothing wrong with Orange. The color's in the Irish flag. Some of my ancestors came from the North. Others from the south--including 2 grandparents. I've got more recent connections than many who just know they have a bit of Irish blood; I wasn't raised on Irish-American legends. Everyone who lives in Ireland is Irish--whether they are citizens of the Republic or subjects of Her Majesty. The Border is not my problem.

Here's how they celebrate St Patrick's day in Galway City:

All kinds of tribes to gather in city for the St Patrick’s Day parade

Queen Maeve of Connaught will once more lead the people of the west of Ireland - native and newcomer, settled, Traveller, Celt, and African - at tomorrow's St Patrick's Day parade in Galway city which promises to be the biggest parade yet and a celebration of both Irishness and cultural diversity....

The Association of Nigerians in Galway will be celebrating St Patrick's Day in style by taking part in the city's parade in the daytime and holding a fund-raising party for GOAL that evening. The Nigerian group will be carrying this group's flag which depicts the Irish and Nigerian flags merging. They will also be waving Irish and Nigerian national flags and wearing T-shirts specially made for the day. "A greater number of Nigerians will be taking part in the parade this year," Chris Okeke, PRO with the Association of Nigerians in Galway said. "They have received their resident status in Ireland and want to celebrate that and join in with the rest of the nation on its national day."......

A cross-community band from Northern Ireland - The Ulster Youth Ensemble - will be also take part in tomorrow's parade as well as the Eve of St Patrick's parade. The Ulster Youth Ensemble consists of 50 young pipers, drummers, and dancers from both the Catholic and Protestant communities. The director of the St Patrick's Day parade, Breandán Ó hEaghra, has welcomed the addition of the UYE as an important new link between Galway and Northern Ireland.

"We are delighted to welcome the Ulster Youth Ensemble to Galway," he said. "Not only are they a spectacular band but the significance of a cross-community band marching in the city for St Patrick's Day is important and I hope we can build on our links with the North over the coming years."

http://galwayadvertiser.ie/dws/story.tpl?inc=2002/03/16/news/30359.html

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

5. Orange here

My ancestors were born "in the north of Ireland" and came to this country in 1820 to dig canals. They were Irish Protestants and were very proud of their heritage-so proud that the immigrant's grandson said he was Irish on his marriage license, even though he had been born in Illinois!

I'm sorry if some people have slurred the Protestants. If you study genealogy, it quickly dawns on you that everyone is kin to everyone else-they say at least 50th cousins, if not closer. I join you in offering truce and ask those who cling to past grievances to put them down. We are all related and should learn to get along.

[reichstag911]

23. Ewwwwwwwwwwww...

"If you study genealogy, it quickly dawns on you that everyone is kin to everyone else-they say at least 50th cousins, if not closer."

So I've had sex multiple times with many of my relatives? Ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww. :puke:

[Clark2008]

71. You can be from Northern Ireland and still be Catholic.

My family was - and still to this day is Catholic.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

84. Yes, I know

but as I said, I've done genealogical research on this branch of my family. They were Protestants.

[htuttle]

6. I'm Orange from Ulster, and Green from County Kerry

And the inevitable Green/Orange bluster around March 17th doesn't really both me either way, to be honest. My branch of the family tree sort of put all that behind us when we came to the States long ago. Too busy digging lead to worry about it, I guess. We've always celebrated St. Patrick's Day, but without any factionalism from either side, even though my step-ma is 100% Green Irish Catholic, and the rest of us were raised (US-brand) Protestants.

:shrug:

"It's the same old theme, since nineteen-sixteen.
In your head, in your head they're still fighting, ..."

[noonwitch]

7. I used to wear an orange shirt on St. Patty's Day when I was in college.

Just to see the reaction.

[mohinoaklawnillinois]

8. Tyler, I agree with you wholeheartedly and I sympathize with your loss.

However, do you sympathize with the family of Robert Hamill, a Catholic young man who was beaten to death on the streets of Portadown, Co. Armagh in April, 1997 while a contingent of RUC looked on and did nothing?

No one, to this day, has ever been brought to justice for that brutal and unnecessary killing.

Have the killers of Pat Finucane and Rosemary Wilson ever been caught and brought before the dock?

There are many families on both sides of the religious divide in the Six Counties that have had loved ones killed and maimed unnecessarily and have never received "justice". For this I blame the politicians on both sides. They're all equally guilty.

[Tyler Durden]

21. Truer words not spoken today.

"Let the dead bury the dead, Mr. Finch."

From To Kill a Mockingbird by Harper Lee.

[TechBear_Seattle]

9. Family maimed in Warrington, 1993

It was all I could do not to wear an orange shirt to work today. I've done that in the past, and gotten quite a lot of grief for it (always, of course, thinly disguised as humor.)

St. Patrick's Day as long been a political rallying point for IRA and other nationalist terrorists. That is why I refuse to have anything to do with it.

(Oh, and I have ancestors who were exiled to the Americas after the Restoration :hi:)


Edit: Got the wrong date, now fixed.

[Redstone]

10. Your family just can't stay out of trouble, can they?

Just joking.

Yes, for people to kill each other for being Catholic vs Protestant is just about as stupid as you can get.

And don't try to say anything about it, either. I wrote an an anti-IRA song years back after they set off the bomb in the London park, and damn near got killed when I sang it in an Irish bar.

The last verse was:
When I take over Ireland, then Ireland will be free,
Free, that is, for anyone who thinks the same as me,
And if you do not like it, well then look out me lad,
'Cause I'll blow up your sister, and I'll shoot your mom and dad.

Chorus:
Oh, I am a solider of the brave IRA,
I'll blow up horse and tourists any day,
But when the police come, I've already run away,
Yes, I am a soldier of the brave IRA.

Redstone

[mattclearing]

104. That's a great song.

Hats off to you for singing it in an Irish bar.

I agree that killing for religion is about as dumb as it gets.

My invisible man in the sky is better than your invisible man in the sky is no basis for a physical altercation of any sort.

[Flying Dream Blues]

11. I agree with you 100%.

Hugs and love to you from a distant Irish (probably Orange, too far back to know) cousin.
Life is for the living, and we should all learn to live together in peace, if only for the sake of the dead.

[Warpy]

12. Check your history to find the origins of those slurs

get off your high horse and stop taking them personally. You didn't colonize the place, people long dead did.

It's one day a year. The rest of the year the world is your oyster.

If it makes you feel any better, this old Harp thinks both sides are equally insane. However alcohol plus misplaced nostalgia for a place the drinker's never seen are a potent combination. Just wait for it to be over and go on about your business.

It's what I always do. Besides, I look like hell in green.

[Greyhound]

17. You make me nostalgic for my Great-Grandmother, this is exactly the kind

of thing she always said. "They are insane, that's why we left. Don't concern yourself with the craziness of others"

So, I love the language (though I can't speak a word), the food, the music, the accent, but know little else beyond that the British were horrible and we are much better off to be away from them.

Ironically, it's one of the places I'm considering running away to. :crazy:

[Tyler Durden]

26. Some militants on another thread pissed me off...

...Then pissed on me.

If we go back far enough, we've ALL got some Cro-magnon related to ME beating the shit out of some Cro-Magnon related to YOU. I just got a little angry hearing about 100 year old injustice while remembering doing some research for my parents going to visit Ireland (BOTH of them) and finding out that the relatives they were going to visit had both children killed. One would be my age.

Found it a little irritating that it was being called "waving the bloody shirt" by a person calling me out as a "Protestant running dog" of the Brits. NOBODY ELSE needs to die over there over this bullshit.

[MadHound]

13. Then stop waving the goddamn Orange Shamrock around!

You don't want to be insulted, stop insulting others! Goddamn it, you claim that you know Ireland, if you know so goddamn much then you know what you are doing is a goddamn insult to Irish and Catholics everywhere.

You want to be treated with respect, then treat others likewise. Wave that bloody Orange Shamrock around with all of the bloody conotations it has, don't be suprised when you get slapped down.:grr:

[Tyler Durden]

28. You know what? YOU were first with the "PROD" bullshit.

And it needs to stop. NOW.

I even offered to bury the hatchet. But your hatred appears to keep you warm. Unless this is what comforts you, I offer peace. AGAIN. And again without any slur to a Catholic, Irish or otherwise.

If you cannot envision a peace between PERSONS, that it MUST be on your terms and none other, then accept my surrender, as I will choose the path of PEACE, and the dead will bury the dead.

I will say it is a shame that your ideology has no room for a family's tragedy, which is PERSONAL, not POLITICAL.

[MadHound]

31. Go see the other thread

And also note who waved the Orange Shamrock first.

Sláinte!:toast:and Peace

[RB TexLa]

32. And the orange shamrock came out in response to the word Freedom!

[Tyler Durden]

35. And I repeat, I surrender.

Feel free to continue your assault.

[Vinnie From Indy]

41. Yeah, those Orangemen sure know how to extend their

genuine and peaceful hands during the marching season. I think maybe this thread was offered using a straw man to get lift. I am not buying it!

Peace to all of Ireland!

[Tyler Durden]

44. NO, this was in response to being treated like "the massa"

...because I am of Irish extraction and because my relatives are Protestant.

You know something? I have Irish Catholic in-laws, and they are one HELL of a lot more considerate than some people who have posted here today.

If this is what being on the same side means, God help us, whoever she/he/it may be.

[Vinnie From Indy]

46. Maybe you should have posted your "consideration matrix"

so all of us would know what pisses you off enough to start tossing orange shamrocks into today's festivities. This seems to be much more about you than Ireland.

[Tyler Durden]

53. I think "Protesant running dog for the Brits" did it...

After I mentioned that I had dead cousins in Armagh. My Irish/Scottish late Father was taking my Irish/German Mother to meet Relatives in Ireland, and asked me to do the research. I set me back a few paces to know that I had two cousins that would be almost the same age as me if they had not been killed in a bombing.

Made the slurs a little personal, I proposed peace. I'm STILL proposing peace. I don't know why I bother, though. If we can't treat each other fairly HERE, how do we expect any eventual world peace?

My second Wife is Italian by the way, we have an adopted daughter from China, and two of the three kids from my first marriage are half Hispanic. We have one agnostic, three atheists, one Buddhist, one Wiccan and one IDON'TKNOW who used to be C of E. We don't tolerate racial or religious slurs in my house. In any way, shape or form.

[Vinnie From Indy]

78. I, for one, won't comment anymore on this thread.

I have, once again, been lured into commenting on a silly, flame-bait thread. Oh well! Happy St Patty's Day to all regardless of race, creed etc etc etc.

Peace in Ireland NOW and forever!

[GDAEx2]

14. Sent my Boys to school today

dressed in green and orange. Had to explain the "Troubles" to them on the way to the bus.
On a lighter note, we will celebrate tonight by working on "Molly's Reel".

[Greyhound]

15. Care to enlighten the rest of us as to what you're talking about?

I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one that doesn't know what PROD is, other than derogatory.

BTW my family was from Ireland and spent three generations getting us all away from the insanity of the old country. We are Americans.

[DenaliDemocrat]

18. Yeah, is this some sort of regional thing???

Where I grew up everyone was either Mexican or Italian in heritage. They came to mine the coal and cowboy the open range lands. The only thing remotely Irish in my town was the St. Patrick's Parish.

Never heard anything about "orange" or "PROD" Fill those of us who are not aware of the infighting here.

[mohinoaklawnillinois]

20. It's a slur on those that practice the Protestant faith, as

the word "Taig" is a slur on those that practice Roman Catholicism.

"Orange" refers to members of the Orange Order in Northern Ireland. It's an organization that still bans Catholics from becoming members.

[WilliamPitt]

22. 99% of Americans don't know shit about the Troubles

...which means 99% of the people talking about it here are in the same situation. You've seen stupid shit on DU before, and you're seeing it again. Do not let it get under your skin.

[Tyler Durden]

34. Thank you.

You know, I didn't mention it, but I took a punch in an Irish bar in Ann Arbor Michigan on St. Patrick's Day in 1972.

I didn't even MENTION that I was Orange. I got asked if I was Irish, I said yes, and I then got asked which parish I belonged to, and when I said I was an atheist, POW. My nose has been broken 4 times: that was the first. I wrote it off years ago.

[coalition_unwilling]

83. People who wear green on St. Patrick's Day are like

the fuckers with "Support our Troops" ribbons on their $70,000 SUVs, who won't send their sons and daughters to enlist.

[Itchinjim]

24. Yeah, I've never seen ANY Catholic bashing here on DU.

n/t

[RB TexLa]

25. exactly! n/t

[Tyler Durden]

27. Not from ME anyway, chum...

And THAT is what we are referring to: not some specious unknown persons in another country.

Want to bash somebody? Find another thread. No offense intended.

[Itchinjim]

29. A bit thin skinned today are we?

Here maybe this will help. IT WAS MEANT TO BE TAKEN HUMOROUSLY. No offense taken.
Sheesh.

[Tyler Durden]

37. You want thin skinned? Look up the thread...

Or go over to a couple of those IRA love letters on other threads.

Don't mention being Protestant, though.
Or Enlish.
Or Irish and NOT Catholic.

Then duck.

[mitchum]

30. Yes, but you "Proddies" can claim most of the great Irish writers:

Swift
Wilde
Shaw
Synge
Beckett

They only have Joyce (and he was very lapsed)

[Tyler Durden]

38. Folks seem to forget how Swift DAMNED the English...

...for their treatment of the Irish.

I think it's because I resent so strongly being pigeonholed with the monsters who murder children, no matter WHAT their religion or WHERE they come from.

Just silly me, I guess.

[Bridget Burke]

40. Many Catholic Irish wanted "one of their own" to join....

The ranks of Great Irish Writers. And they got Jimmy Joyce!

[Solon]

33. I'm a Pagan Irishman, in that case, I'm going skyclad...

No offense, but you Christians deserve each other.

[katty]

42. me too, 3rd gen Irish - not interested in rabid Christianity/Churchianity

[Solon]

47. I would go so far as to say that there wouldn't be peace...

till both sides just GROW UP! I swear, both sides really don't gain that much sympathy from those Irish who are simply sick of this violence, this poison of hatred and distrust that both sides have. Protestant, Catholic, I don't really give a shit, anymore, as to who started it or who should finish it, they act like children fighting over toys in a fucking sandbox!

[katty]

52. I know..it's exhausting...violence upon violence, hurt upon hurt...

the only out is to just STOP doing it! enough! EVERYONE and their families have been hurt, give the children a chance to LIVE!

[Solon]

62. Even though I'm about 3/4 Irish...

I really feel that I should emphasize my German side of the family. During WW2 my family over on the other side of the pond in Germany ended up in the gas chambers for the "crime" of smuggling Jews out of the Nazi regime. That is something to really be proud of, not this useless bickering.

[Catrina]

89. Being pagan wouldn't have mattered much as far as the 'troubles' go

It's being 'Irish' that matttered, that being of true Irish descent, rather than descended from those sent over by the British to take over Irish lands, to secure the North, always troublesome to the British (they took issue with being invaded and having their rights as citizens a little bit abused) for takeover, and to make sure the the Irish natives didn't cause too much trouble when their country, culture, lands, language etc. were being stolen.

It's not about religion, it's a war of occupation, and the Irish revolted against it from time to time. The US did the same thing, against the same occupiers, but they succeeded where Ireland failed pretty much for hundreds of years until the early 20th Century. They did not, however, manage to get all 32 counties back, just the 26 south of the border.

So, if you are a pagan, a buddhist, or whatever, but you happen to be able to trace your lineage back to Irish rather British planted ancestors, it really wouldn't have mattered very much. You would have been a second class citizen in your own native country if you were a Pagan, Irish landowner, you probably would have lost your land, despite not being a dreaded 'Catholic'. Like all wars and colonialist occupations, resources, not faith although often used, was the real reason for the trouble.

Having said all that, I agree with the OP ~ it's been four hundred years since the plantation of Ulster and it's time for peace ~

As far as St. Patrick's Day, I've celebrated it with 'Orange' and 'Green' friends ~ all of whom are looking to move towards a peaceful Ireland and who are not responsible for the actions of their ancestors ~

[Bridget Burke]

101. Many "planted" by the English were 2nd class citizens.

They were Nonconformists, not members of the Church of Ireland--and more of them were Scots than English. The Catholic Irish were at the bottom of the pecking order.

Some of those Nonconformists emigrated & arrived in America just in time to take up arms against the Brits. Some who remained helped form the United Irishmen--stamped out after the Rebellion of 1798.

Anyone living in Ireland is Irish. Whether descended from "Celt", "Dane", "Norman", "English"--or from the majority, whose ancestors were there before the Celts. (This year's St Patrick's day celebration in Galway City will have a big contingent of Nigerian/Irish.) Whether they are citizens of the Republic or subjects of Her Majesty is irrelevant. The silly Border is not my problem.

Most Irish are too busy getting on with their lives to dig up old conflicts. And too many Irish-Americans have a simplistic view of Irish history.

[Solon]

103. OK, let's see...

As I mentioned elsewhere on this thread, I'm about 3/4 Irish, as in the Catholic reared kind, then again, I also had Anglo ancestors as well dating back many, many, generations, but some of those branches to America on the Mayflower, other branches from all over Europe, the more predominate being the Irish Immigration of the Potato Famine era, so I really don't know what I can tell you. I also have German, Scots, Frankish, and other ancestery. Let me put it this way, my father, the family tracker, has traced the family line to the 12th century, the Frankish branch left the Mainland and emigrated to Ireland back then. But, if you want to know, going back about 6 generations or so, I had ancestors back then that were both the oppressed and the oppressors. As far as I'm concerned, this tit for tat feud accomplishes nothing but creating inflamed passions. I'm just an American Mutt, probably explains the reason why my facial hair is bright red, and probably explains my blond hair on my head and everywhere else, not to mention my green eyes.

[Cleita]

36. You wouldn't say that if you knew what the Irish Catholics

have suffered under the Orangemen, historically. The Orangemen operate pretty much like the KuKluxKlan does here in Amurika. I have had lifelong Irish Catholic friends from Belfast. They were living there during the worst of the "troubles". They told me a lot about how things worked there, about the Reverend Paisley and how he fomented the hate.

[Tyler Durden]

43. I know EXACTLY what happened in Ireland...

...from St. Patrick to NOW.

Let me give you a parallel: say you're white and male.

Now say I'm black and female. And I decide YOU PERSONALLY are responsible for every act of discrimination from the first slave boat to last week, ESPECIALLY the imprisonment of Rosa Parks.

Is this fair?
Is it fair to slam ME because almost 1/2 of my heritage is Irish and Church of England?
WHERE is this fair?

I repeat for about the 10th time: let the dead bury the dead.

[sandnsea]

49. Yes it's fair

If you're doing nothing to change it and, in fact, instigating continued animosity which is all you're doing with a thread like this.

That from a French Catholic who doesn't have a drop of Irish blood in her, and barely a drop of English.

The English oppressed the Irish, it's historic fact. Just like they tried to oppress the colonists. The Ulsters are like today's southerners, they just can't get over the fact that they lost and insist on hanging on to the past.

[Tyler Durden]

54. I only asked for PEACE, and not to be slurred for who I was...

...What I GOT was "Running Dog Prod."

Sorry. That's NOT fair.

[sandnsea]

56. You got what you asked for

with your waving the orange shirt. I saw your post. Like wearing a white hood to an NAACP meeting, no sympathy from me.

[ourbluenation]

66. oh for the love of mike - stop whining. Christ all mighty - can we not

have our one day a year?

[katty]

85. this is why my ancestors left Ireland...sick of fighting+more $

[Cleita]

70. I really wish that people, who never had a rubber bullet fired

in the face of a friend or relative, or who had a friend or relative blown up in a bomb wouldn't be so quick to solve fights that they have no dog in.

[sandnsea]

80. Oppression is everybody's business

I particularly object to that notion that a white man today doesn't have to do anything about 400 years of slavery and can just shake it off with "wasn't me"; and then turn around and keep doing the exact same thing. One generation's Irish Catholics are another generations Africans and another's Muslim Arabs. All of it stems from the same mentality.

[Cleita]

86. So then why are you blaming the victim?

It's the Irish Catholics who were oppressed, not the Orangemen who were originally brought from Scotland to colonize Northern Ireland back during Oliver Cromwell's time. They took all the land away from the Irish Catholics, gave it to the Oranges, and made serfs out of the Catholics.

They were banned from living next to the Protestants, drinking in their Pubs, eating in their restaurants, just like in the American South during segregation with the African Americans. And this was up to the last century.

Also, in the twentieth century, it was a churchman known as the Reverend Ian Paisley, an Anglican, who kept the pot of ethnic discrimination stirred. He more than anyone has been responsible for the troubles in Northern Ireland in the last century.

If it weren't for him there wouldn't have been terrorists grown in that environment who took on the name of the IRA who had previously won freedom from England in Southern Ireland,at the beginning of the twentieth century. I'm afraid our Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell are doing the same here in America.

[sandnsea]

87. Maybe you should read again

I said the English oppressed the Irish. So I've got no idea how you concluded I was blaming the victim.

[Tyler Durden]

92. So shoot me.

I surrender. I bought the guns 100 years ago. I killed the children at the time of Swift. I did it all. I deserve it. Kill me.

What do YOU deserve (according to YOUR logic) that YOUR ancestors have done?

[sandnsea]

97. I don't excuse the lies

I don't excuse the slaughters. I own the oppressive history that continues to this day and challenge the denial when I hear it. You, on the other hand, prefer to play martyr. And beyond that, prefer to shove your misplaced martyrdom in others' faces inciting more animosity. Nobody suggested shooting you. Get off your pity pot.

[Tyler Durden]

88. The sins of the fathers....

Seems to me that's what our ancestors came here for.

Instead, we follow Dante's characters:

"And I have made of my home, a gallows."

Or the bible:

"And a man's enemies shall be they of his own household."


AND as a white male co-founder of an SDS chapter, a founding member of a SNCC chapter, and a founding member of the Ann Arbor Rainbow People's Coalition, NO, it WASN'T me. I DIDN'T DO IT, and to blame me for it is not fair.

PERIOD.

[Cleita]

93. That's true. So why are you throwing out this flamebait?

There is centuries of hurt over this issue. If you had come into my husband's bar on St. Paddy's day and said what you did in your O.P., he would have thrown you out and that would have been to protect you.

[sandnsea]

98. YOU made yourself a target

If you don't want to get shot, don't make yourself a target. YOU waved the orange shirt and that is, indeed, YOUR fault. Just as surely as waving a Confederate Flag or wearing a white hood in an NAACP meeting. The day you stop doing that and OWN the failings of your ancestors is the day you STOP being at fault for the continuation of the sins.

[rinsd]

76. The Ulsters ARE today's southerners

The term Scotch-Irish was coined by Irish-Protestant immigrants during the influx of Irish-Catholic immigrants in the middle of the 1800's to distinguish themselves(most had been here for years and had moved to the middle class) from the widely reviled Irish Catholic who were very poor.

http://www.scotchirish.net/

The Scotch-Irish were the backbone of the Confederate Army.

[sandnsea]

82. Well yeah, now that you mention it

I've actually been doing some genealogy for my brother-in-law whose ancestors were Presbyterian, Irish Calvinists who came down from Pennsylvania and settled in South Carolina. Irish Calvinist just doesn't even compute for me, but there they were, in the mid-1700's.

[Finder]

50. Nobody is slamming you...

Seriously, you threw out the fighting words(Orange Shamrock)first, hun. I too have Irish and English heritage(not wasp though)and like you I am an atheist so the religion thing has nothing to do with the spanking on the other thread.

Go have a green beer and calm down.

[Bridget Burke]

58. Please, don't suggest he have a green beer!

Even resentment for centuries of abuse suffered by people you've read about should not lead to such vile punishment!

Let's all have a Guinness.

Ordering an Irish Whiskey can be perilous, since Bushmill's is distilled in the North & Jameson in the South. However, Bushmill's has just been purchased by the company that owns Guinness. And Jameson belongs to Pernod-Richard, which formerly owned Bushmill's.

I'll have a shot of Power's--the bestselling whiskey in The Republic. But Irish-Americans only care about the Jameson/Bushmill's "conflict."

[Finder]

64. Cheers...

:toast:

[Tyler Durden]

65. I did that after the first "PROD" nonsense....

...and I took it back, although no one seems to notice.

Screw the green beer though. Beer needs no food coloring. I'd have a draft "Kilkenny" but I haven't found it anywhere on this continent except Canada. Molson's and Labatt's will have to do tonight.

[Cleita]

67. So if you are so innocent, why does the Rev. Paisley

march his Orangemen through Catholic neighborhoods in Belfast every year to rub their noses in it to this day? Yet Catholic children in Belfast can't walk through a Protestant neighborhood to go to school.

My Belfast friends told me that to be a Catholic in Northern Ireland was like being a Mexican National here. I personally have nothing against Irish Protestants. My husband was Irish from Limmerick and we had many Irish friends here including those who were Protestant.

None of those Protestants claimed to be Orangemen. To do so would have been the same to claim you are Aryan Nation here. I'm sorry but you should be ashamed of yourself.

[ScreamingMeemie]

39. No, but my head hurts whenever I read,"We're being picked on" threads.

I am a female, Catholic of Irish descent. I've been called a soccer mom, a believer in the supernatural, been told that abortion isn't an issue we should concern ourselves with if we want to get elected, a breeder, ...and now the descendant of terrorists. Ah, another day at DU. Last week was national Get Over it Day. I think we need one every week, because I am guilty of thin skin often times myself.

[Tyler Durden]

48. I never called you or any Catholic a descendant of terrorists.

What I said was, ALL of the murderers are scum, be they Catholic, Protestant, Irish, or British.

For my trouble I got personally villified within one inch of and ALERT. And nobody Called you...

Ah forget it. Obviously I must just surrender. Again.

Remember this the next time you see someone here use "BITCH" or "WHORE" or something worse.

[ScreamingMeemie]

57. I've seen that, and I ignore it or hide it...This is DU. It's who people

are. If I got offended everytime somebody said something, I would be an unhappy person. I haven't villified you, I'm just pointing out that every one feels such as you at any given moment here. "Bitch" or "Whore" don't really bother me. I hide the thread and place the user on ignore.

[Bridget Burke]

45. Perhaps DU'ers need a guide to Ethnic Slurs!

(Some time back, we had to explain why "Papist" was not acceptable.)

Rangers & Celtic are Glasgow football teams. Many of the fans are descended from Irish immigrants of both sorts. (Probably no Church of Ireland--they would not emigrate to such a working-class city.) The strong rivalry has led to violence at times. However, some can see humour in it.



Refresh your vocabulary on this page: http://rangersfansvcelticfans.com/intro.html

Whether Green or Orange, we can all do with a bit of Black Humour.

[mohinoaklawnillinois]

60. Thanks for the link, Bridget.

I'll have to bookmark it. Mr. Wonderful is a rabid Celtic fan..

I just looked at it briefly, the one comment that caught my eye: "1690, we want a replay". Too funny....

[ourbluenation]

51. Oh calm down and let us have our 1 day if that's allright with you...

suck it up.

Some of us are still dealing with the pain of dead relatives at the hands of orangemen who march proudly in their stupid bowler hats through catholic neighborhoods.

[coalition_unwilling]

55. I always wear orange on St. Patrick's Day

not because I'm anti-Irish or pro-British occupation, but because I'm anti-Roman Catholic. St Patrick did a real number on indigenous pagan peoples of Ireland. In fact, the Roman Catholic church's record is absolutely abysmal with regard to most indigenous people(s).

[ScreamingMeemie]

59. Funny. I wear whatever I feel like on that day...here in America.

:hi:

[ourbluenation]

61. Orange on St. Pat's day. What a shitty thing to do.....

truly - your wearing an orange shirt to protest something that happened 50 million years ago??? Jaysus! I'm an ex catholic but I get my irish up big time today...thanks for bringing me down with visions of you purposefully wearing orange. The color of the orangemen. Christ.

[coalition_unwilling]

73. Actually, I do it mostly as a prank, b/c most people proudly

proclaim their "Irishness" and celebrate St. Patrick's Day without even being aware of the roots. The only people who even come close to getting the joke (other than the afficionados here at DU) are Brit expats I meet in Los Angeles.

[ourbluenation]

74. It's a stupid prank and a lame joke. But you go...

[coalition_unwilling]

81. People who wear green on St. Patrick's Day are like

these rich bastards in Los Angeles who have "Support our Troops" ribbons on their $70,000 SUVs but won't send their sons and daughters to enlist.

[Hobarticus]

107. Dude, that is a ridiculous analogy.

I wouldn't repeat it anymore than you already have, it's pretty weak.

[sandnsea]

63. So how do you figure orange in that equation?

You do know St. Patrick was simply Christian, and is celebrated by Anglicans and Catholics, right?

[ourbluenation]

68. if mr orange shirt pagan guy knew what the orangemen have done

to so many people. That color represents something dreadful to so many people.

[Solon]

77. Hence the reason for my response, go skyclad...

in case you are wondering, that means go naked, at least the parties will be more interesting. :)

[Bridget Burke]

75. The Battle of the Boyne is still celebrated by the Orange order.

James II of England was defeated by his son in law, William. Many still see it as a victory of Protestants over Catholics, but the truth is more complex.

For example: Pope Alexander VIII was an ally of William & ordered the bells of Rome rung to celebrate the victory. By wearing Orange, you are declaring your alliance with the Papacy.

[Catrina]

99. Interesting choice if your beef is with the Catholic Church. Why Orange

which definitely will send the message that you are pro-British occupation of Ireland. Why not purple, which would have less chance of being mistaken for support for a brutal occupation which over time, eliminated half the population of Ireland and reduced much of the rest to what was akin to slavery in their own land. I'm sure you would not want to be associated with that, which had nothing at all to do with the Catholic Church.


Interesting too, how the Protestant Church doesn't stimulate the same kind of hatred as the Catholic Church. You might want to read what Protestant rulers in England did even to their own people. Most crimes committed of the magnitude of that committed against the Irish people over the centuries, had nothing to do with religion, and in fact were it not for the Catholic priests, the Irish people would not even have maintained a modicum of literacy, being that it was often forbidden for the Irish to receive an education.

It's the same old broad brush painting of groups based on one's own personal prejudices and interpretations. There have been great freedom-loving Protestants and Catholics, often joining together throughout Ireland's sad history against the aggression of the GOVERNMENT, which doesn't necessarily mean the people of England ~ many of whom did not agree with, or had not say, in the policies of their government ~

It seems there are two kinds of people in this world, and have been throughout history. Those who oppress others and their supporters, and those who oppose oppression of others and their supporters. Oh, and a third might be those who take no stand at all and don't want to know about it. The battle between the other two still rages on with different players and different religions today, mankind having learned nothing from the past.

Which side we take probably depends on many complex factors in our own lives. Me, I'm against oppression of all kinds and aware that it comes under the guise all religions, colors, ethnicities ~ it seems to be a human flaw that continues to rear its ugly head unabated, no matter how many wars are fought over it, or how many peaceful actions are taken. Maybe it's just human nature, and there really will never be a solution.

[Clark2008]

69. My family is from the County Armagh

I have no idea what you're talking about in your post, but I saw that and just wanted to comment.

I have both sides in my blood. Orange and Green.

[sg_]

72. I know what you mean Tyler and I agree with what you say...

I knew people who were killed by the ra and they bombed my village too (see ira bomb thread in general discussion).

I havent been here too long, but in my time lurking ive seen many posts where N.Irish prods have been insulted/slagged off (Even compared N.Irish prods to republicans !). No doubt by people who hold a green tinted view of Ireland.

As for St paddys day, I dont "celebrate" it. Its a day off and some extra hours sleep for me :D

[Bridget Burke]

79. Far more than the Orange will be pissed on today.

At those "parking lot" parties, far too many celebrants won't be able to make it to the Porta-Potties.

Here's to a quiet celebration of whatever you want to celebrate.

[Cleita]

90. I went through ten St. Patrick's days working in an Irish bar.

No thanks. What a workout! Even the Irish thought Americans were crazy for celebrating it as they did. It's a nice quiet day for me. I intend to light a candle for my dead Irish husband and put flowers on his grave.

[redwitch]

91. In London, 1984

I met my husband's Uncle Len. He married Aunt Esther, an Irish Catholic girl from Armagh, he was a British soldier stationed in her country when they met and fell in love.
They married in the late 40's early 50's much to the dismay of all their friends and families. They had a long and happy marriage. I always picture them as a modern day Romeo and Juliet. Bless their memories. Make love, not war.

[Clark2008]

94. What a sweet story.

My great X 20 grandfather on my mother's side was Irish Catholic from Armagh and fought in the Battle of Boyne: Daniel Shields (might have been O'Shiel at the time). His grandson, William, is my direct descendant, and moved to this country in the 1600s, from whence I came.

My great X 20 grandfather on my father's side was a "prod" - Scotch-Irish originally from County Fife in Scotland.

Orange and Green make for a pretty Irish flag.

[Cleita]

95. Actually, there have been a lot of marriages from both sides.

This will probably be the salvation of things.

[redwitch]

96. here, here! more fraternizing!

'Tis a good thing!

[Cleita]

100. Really, there was some crazy hippie back in the sixties (I can't

remember his name) who proposed ending the cold war with Russia with what he called a "mattress solution". He proposed sending all the American women to Russia and bringing all the Russian women here. He said everyone would be too busy making love to make war. Well I think he was also in love with his bong, but maybe he had something there.

[Solon]

106. You know, that wasn't a bad idea...

I mean, in the entire history of good ideas versus bad ideas, this one is MUCH better than most solutions put forward for peace.

[Bluebear]

102. Oh. For a minute I thought Tom Ridge was back!

;)

[buzzard]

105. I am also Irish not Catholic with relatives in County Armagh and Down and

I agree completely. Time to grow up on all sides.

[maddezmom]

108. locking

hope it works here, too