V for Vendetta: WHAT EVERYONE MUST KNOW! (No spoilers)

[BloodyWilliam]

Some people don't quite understand the origin and issues surrounding V for Vendetta, so I'm starting this thread to educate those who aren't complete comic book geeks like myself. :)

V for Vendetta was originally a comic book story written by Alan Moore and drawn by David Lloyd, first in a British comic magazine and later published by DC's Vertigo offshoot. If you're interested in reading the original story, Amazon has the graphic novel here for a scant $12. V for Vendetta remains one of my favorite comics, and one of my favorite books, period.

Slightly crazed (and I say this lovingly) Briton Alan Moore wrote V for Vendetta (along with Watchman, another brilliant comic that is rightfully considered to be one of the best pieces of literature penned in the last three decades) in the 1980s. During the Cold War and the reign of Margaret Thatcher. V for Vendetta depicted a fascist, Nazi-like Britain dominated by extreme-right conservatives, after a nuclear winter caused by the Cold War pretty much ruined everything else. A big attack gave the evil bastards a chance to grab power, so they did, and everything went pear-shaped. The story was in no way written about Bush or even about Reagan. The only reason so many parallels with today's political climate can be seen in the film (and even in the graphic novel) are because we're going through our own Thatcher era. George Bush and his terrifying, moralistic, fascist comrades are more like that crazed bitch who terrorized Britain than the senile talking head who led America at the same time.

Alan Moore's name isn't related to the movie because he had a problem with DC's treatment of his work when adapting to film, and he didn't believe that V for Vendetta would turn out well. He wrote League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, which in graphic novel form was a brilliant work. Anyone who's seen the movie understands why Alan Moore disavowed all film versions of his work after that.

That said, I saw V for Vendetta (after reading the book countless times over the years), and I am satisfied both as a comic book fan and a political wonk. There were some things changed and any Brit would notice a certain major inaccuracy in a historical reference, but beyond that it was very good. The parts of the movie changed from the book were changed both for the format and to make the issue more topical. Frankly, it's disturbing how easily the fears that grew around the Cold War and Margaret Thatcher can be tweaked just a small bit to reflect the fears we have over the current American administration. It's not a perfect movie, but it turned out far better than I hoped, and it stayed pleasantly true to the concepts of the book.

I won't end with the obvious, the Guy Fawkes rhyme. Instead I'll just say this: It's damn scary that our situation mirrors the fears this book was based upon so closely. This country has a problem, and I'm afraid of what may happen in the future, caused by those who crave ever more power.

[Radio_Lady]

1. As a movie reviewer, I appreciate your taking the time to post this!

Thanks so much. The movie is outstanding and we had a thread going on it a few nights ago.

I'll try to find it and post the link here.

On edit: ::FRUSTRATED::

OT: I'm having a difficult time actually finding my recent and/or archived posts and bringing them up now that the new icon says "My DU" -- anyone else experiencing this? If so, where do I report it?

Sometimes I can't get to posts others have made in a particular thread, just get the logo DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND.COM in the upper left hand page and the word "DONE" down in the status bar at the bottom.

The rest of the page is COMPLETELY BLANK.

Here is the link that isn't working for me:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=673606

I love the new look, but when the site doesn't work right for me, I get frustrated.

[proud patriot]

7. when I clicked on it , It worked

Try this
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=673606

[Radio_Lady]

8. Wonderful. But now, I wonder what I'm doing wrong!

It is DEFINITELY not coming up -- even when I try linking in YOUR message. Just a blank page. Weird and freaky. Now that I think about it, I actually had this problem all around DU over the past week and just ignored it.

I'm going to do an orderly shutdown on this system and see whether that fixes it.

I didn't mean to hijack this thread, but if there is some other forum I should address on this problem (Is it "Ask the Administrators" or something like that -- I'll try to look for it.

In peace,

Radio_Lady

[proud patriot]

17. You may want to pm Elad

if you continue to have problems. :hi:

[Radio_Lady]

23. Thanks, proud patriot. All seems to work at this point.

Appreciate your post.

[Radio_Lady]

11. Here's the movie's official link -- pretty interesting!

http://vforvendetta.warnerbros.com/

They've got a lot of people talking back!

http://vforvendetta.warnerbros.com/index2.html

BE SURE TO PLAY THEIR GAME OF POLITICAL HANGMAN! IT'S EXCELLENT!

[The Traveler]

2. A conservative acquaintance of mine

apparently inspired by Scarborough's recent hysterics on the subject, brought this up. I recounted my recollection of the history of the book ... and asked why whenever an anti-facist film or other work of art came to the attention of the Rethugs, they whined like brats. While he groped for an answer, I told him, "At some point, dude, you just either gotta quit whining about everybody in Hollywood hating Bush, or just admit the shoe fits and wear it."

Haven't heard from him in a little bit now ...

[Dunvegan]

4. Good statement.

Zappa would have probably approved. :)

[BloodyWilliam]

5. Zappa probably would have been. Bill Hicks too, I hope.

Why are Frank Zappa and Bill Hicks dead while Ann Coulter and Bill O'Reilly are still alive?

[Dunvegan]

18. Easy. Only the good die young.

[EVDebs]

27. Dude, the CIA and Hollywood are in cahoots to promote this madness

Collateral Brain Damage?
The Hollywood Propaganda Ministry

by Alex Constantine, Scheduled for the July 2002 issue of High Times
ttp://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/JohnJudge/linkscopy/CBD.html
© 2002 Alex Constantine
Reprinted for Fair Use Only.

(btw, I don't smoke dope or Alice B. Toklas brownies either, nor am I a promoter of High Times; I just found the site and article and if it is truthful, so be it).

Furthermore, Operation Mockingbird has long been known to be a CIA, intelligence, propaganda tool with MSM.

[Redneck Socialist]

3. Good to hear

I'm a huge fan of the comic and have been preparing myself to be greatly disappointed by the film. Your post gives me hope that I won't be. Thanks.

[Brothaman2k]

6. I saw the movie

And knew a decent portion of the story as a buddy from college had it and showed it to me years ago.

I suppose all suppression and repression of ideas, whatever government it comes from, all follows the same principles, but it was really stunning to see all the parralels between this ficticious government and the one we have to endure in real life.

I didn't read the whole thing back when my buddy loaned it to me so it I don't know for sure, but I wonder how much of the original story was changed and how much of it just flowed right into our current circumstances? Something tells me it really wasn't much.

One of the reasons I love films is you can parralel certain issues that people don't want to discuss and the audience won't just switch it off in their heads because it's topical enough to strike a nerve but far enough away that they won't just discount it, but sit and watch and allow themselves to be affected. Let's hope the same happens with this movie. Let's hope Americans who see it will finally wake the hell up and realize what's being done to them so that damn 36% will finally turn to 0% the way it should be.

[babylonsister]

29. I haven't seen the movie; your comments and the rest are

great, and welcome to DU!

[katty]

35. Saw V - great movie, what a ride-audience, aud clapped for a

few minutes during/after film.

[NVMojo]

9. just saw it today and the parallels in our own government are amazing!

love the comment about artists using lies to tell the truth to people.

[TalkingDog]

12. Haven't seen the movie, but the quote is probably based on...

"We all know that Art is not truth. Art is a lie that makes us realize the truth..."

Pablo Picasso

[chat_noir]

16. Australian reviewer sees the parallels with her country

What people take away from the film will depend what they bring to it in the first place. "Some people might come out saying it's about Bush's America, or Blair's Britain. But equally, in Australia, people might come out saying it's about Howard's Australia." Which actually sounds as if all those people are taking away much the same message, even if that isn't what he means.

snip

Indeed, nothing from V for Vendetta's futuristic world is really unfamiliar, let alone unthinkable. We already have mysterious plague illnesses; we already have detention centres for undesirables; we have already stigmatised the Koran, cited in the film as a forbidden text; we already have security cameras recording our every move; we already have television news, on some stations at least, of stupefying banality. And when we are told of words that have been taken from the language, given a new meaning by the military and fed back into circulation, we already know them: collateral, for example.

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2006/03/16/1142098594274.html?page=5

[Imagevision]

28. You can't help but to compare V with the Bush sdministration

surprised the right wing hasn't jumped all over it -- but I'mm sure Limbaugh will be running his mouth off with ignorant comments!

[tomreedtoon]

10. Another mention of how to "Hayduke" Bill O'Reilly...

..which I've been putting in all the "V for Vendetta" threads here on DU. I only have about 97 more threads to go...

Once those Guy Fawkes masks become available...which should be soon, or for creative people who could make one, even sooner...smuggle them into events where Bill O'Reilly is speaking. Wait until a particular point in the speech, and put the mask on.

If there are ten or twenty "V" faces in the audience...remembering what happened in that film...the Falafel King should freak.

[TalkingDog]

13. That would make you a terra-ist. n/t

[Minstrel Boy]

14. the screenplay does add a fascinating post-9/11 subplot

...spoiler ahead...
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The original backstory of medical experimentation to which V had been subject is extended to a government black ops bio-weapons attack on schools and public transit, leading to the deaths of 100,000 people. Foreign patsies are framed and executed, and the fascists rewarded with limitless authority in exchange for the promise of security.

Natalie Portman's character Evey tells V her father used to say that "artists use lies to tell the truth, and politicians lie to hide it." I think the film becomes genuinely important here, by artfully telling why a government might profit by killing its own people and how it could get away with it.

[jasmeel]

33. I saw the movie too and thought that was a very effective way

to introduce the idea to some of those afraid to admit that their govt might do something brutal to gain power.

[cascadiance]

37. People shouldn't fear the government, Government should fear the people!

[UTUSN]

15. Let's R-for-Recommend this, let's go n/t

[Protagoras]

19. Just got back from seeing it

and it's been changed and updated (not always for the better) but I saw it with 2 other people who had not read the book. They really liked it. While I kept looking for flaws (having read it) I was still pretty impressed. I'll definately see it again and I'll strongly recommend it to anyone who'll listen because it still smartly portrays the issues.

Who's to blame for the sorry state of affairs? Look in the mirror...it happens because we let it happen.

Wish Moore had been able to put his purity aside long enough to see that the movie was still darn good...and his continued involvement might have made it even better.

Still 2 thumbs up.

[mondo joe]

20. I don't think the original material could have been brought to the screen

in a better way.

Having read the series several times over the years, I re-read it after seeing the movie.

It sacrificed a few points (anarchy) but to buy relevance to our lives today. I don't think it could have been better.

[blogslut]

21. V for Vendetta was number 1 @ the box office

According to boxofficemojo:

http://boxofficemojo.com/weekend/chart/

[Radio_Lady]

22. Please remember this, blogslut... FINAL totals do not post until

Monday at http://www.boxofficemojo.com

You are quoting "Studio Estimates" ONLY! See below, copied from the web site. Here is what the site actually says tonight (Sunday):

I made this mistake once and regretted it! (FYI: Sometimes they miss the mark, but it's only rarely. "V for Vendetta" (political thriller) looks much stronger than "Failure to Launch" (romantic comedy), at least according to "studio estimates." Hope this helps.


BOX OFFICE MOJO
WEEKEND BOX OFFICE
March 17–19, 2006
Studio Estimates
Next updates: Monday afternoon - Actual grosses for 90+ movies; Monday evening - Top 110+ Actuals

In peace,

Radio_Lady (film reviewer in Portland, Oregon)

[Nevernose]

24. Thanks. I'm a big fan of the comic, but haven't seen the movie yet

Can't go until I get a babysitter for my not-quite-as-little-as-she-used-to-be child. Hopefully that'll be tomorrow.

I remember reading the comic in the early 90s, and actually having a laugh at the scene in which the cop drops acid in the concentration camp. We'd all read the comic at about the same time, just a few weeks after we'd made up an official list: "Top Ten Worst Places to Take LSD." That was the only time in my life that the word "Auschwitz" was funny.

I've read it a few times since then. Better than Brave New World, not as good as 1984, but I truly believe that, in a hundred and fifty years, Alan Moore will be as well-respected as Dickens or Twain or Tennyson. Okay, maybe not Twain, but definitely worthy of an inclusion to Norton's Anthology of Twentieth Century Literature.

[Minstrel Boy]

25. should tell you, though (spoiler)

in case you're looking forward to it, the LSD sequence isn't in the movie.

I was disappointed with some of the creative license of the screenplay, but some are improvements and faithful to the spirit of the story.

[EVDebs]

26. Combine TIA, the IRS and RFIDs with employment background checks

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=2025401

and voila ! A terror machine to ruin your political enemies/dissenters. Lovely.

[upi402]

30. blue nitril gloves n/t so no spoiler

[oxbow]

31. The Neo-cons were actively modelling themselves after Thatcher's gov.

specifically, on the issue of war. They saw how the short-lived Falklands war turned Thatcher into a war-hero, giving her the political capitol she needed to enact her domestic policies with little opposition. They wanted Iraq to be their Falklands war, and Bush to be the popular war president riding the waves of that victory home. Life has a way of ruining the best laid plans of mice and men though, no?

Now, Iraq is going to hang around Bush's neck like a noose throughout history

[cascadiance]

32. Being willing to lose everything is what rang a bell for me!

I don't want to go in to details to spoil the movie here, but the theme that might confuse some the way its told, but kind of hit home for me is that it looks to warn us that we need to not be so tied to our present pleasantries of what we've enjoyed as civilized life that we tune ourselves out to creeping fascism and are in the process kept from doing anything about it. It is people that have to endure hardship first, that are better equipped to know when to put down their life, and perhaps EVERYTHING, etc. to make changes that are needed, and in many collectively doing so, they are able to make a difference in changing things. That we can't be "controlled" by our fears, but use them appropriately to make change.

That was so evident in the Ukraine after the elections there, and in Venezuela following the coup, etc. there too. Those people had gone through earlier strife, and were aware of the potential costs, and potential benefits of taking action. We at this point are still "compliant" sheep, afraid to lose our Nintendo's, days at the malls, etc. and don't want to feel at some point that they might have to fight in a bloody way with their neighbor who's on the wrong side to preserve our Democracy. My hope is that those returning from Iraq will have enough of a shock to their system and help provide us leadership in getting us out of that funk. The film I think deals with this topic nicely, and perhaps prepares us for this need later. Hopefully we don't have to get shocked heavily to wake ourselves up. Hope this film will help us come to the realizing of the need for action sooner rather than later when the costs will be that much more heavier.

[iconoclastNYC]

34. Great movie.

Saw it yesterday. Can't rave enough about it. Entertaining and thought provoking.

[JHB]

36. What was the inaccurate historical reference?

For the benefit of us non-Brits?