My Dem friends last night asked me "Why don't we have Democratic Leaders?"

[leftchick]

I was at a fundraiser last night for our school and attended with a group of friends who are all Democrats. They all work full time, travel a lot and look to me for insight into what is happening because I have the luxury of spending a lot of my time on line reading and hanging out here. They were all, to a person, shocked and pissed off that we had no Democratic leadership in DC and that no one, save Harkin has signed on with Russ Fiengold's censure of bush. I mean these folks are PISSED OFF! They kept asking me why are they doing nothing about the spying issue and letting the shithead rule like a king?

My answer? I told them it had become painfully obvious to me after the Alito nomination that our Democrats are as corrupted by political power and corporate influence as the repukes. I knew then they were sell outs yet when Sen. Feingold made his move for Censure I let my hopes get the better of me yet again. The lack of support from our DC Dems shows they are beholden to their corporations and not their constituents. They do not give a fuck about us. The fact is we are living in a dictatorship and it is not going to change until the people revolt.

[sam sarrha]

1. I agree, it not a Democracy with Corporate influence, it is Fascism period

[blm]

2. Kennedy and Leahy requested documents of all spying by BushInc last week.

Feingold got censure INTO the judiciary committee where he wanted it to continue debate - he WANTED it slowed down for discussion, debate and further pressure for more papers.

Why are people completely not GETTING that it is the GOPs who were demanding quick declarations on censure? Why are DU Dems siding with Cheney and Frist when Feingold wants to draw out the debate about censure in COMMITTEE? The slower it goes right now, with more senators needing DOCUMENTS to examine, the better for actual censure.

The sooner you people start COMPREHENDING the facts, the more likely you'll have better answers for your friends.

[Toots]

5. When those requests are refused like all the others have been what

then do they do? Do they hold press conferances or stage a united walkout until the Administration complies? No they just shrug their shoulders and say see we tried. It ain't good enough.

[blm]

20. So you side with Cheney and Frist and DON'T want censure debate

slowed down for discussion in committee - because that's NOT what Feingold wants.

[sendero]

24. Just like Reid's "stunt".....

... which demanded phase 2, this is going NOWHERE and you know it.

Just like Phase 2, it will hop down the memory hole, Repugs will bury it somewhere and the Dems, since there are exactly 2 of them, will be in a position to do NOTHING.

How many times do you have to see this same scenario play out before you GET IT?

[blm]

25. Then go ahead and take the bait Frist offered - demand a vote declaration

I will side with Feingold, Kennedy and Leahy who want the censure debate in committee so it gets more attention and hopefully more document requests.

[sendero]

27. Nobody...

... would be happier to be wrong about this than me. My experience is, the more time you give the Repukes in congress, the more efficient they are at burying everything.

Of all of the blatant, in-your-face scandals these guys have perpetrated, exactly how many have been shoved where the moon don't shine? None, because our team want to yak, yak, and yak some more and by the time they are done yakking the Repugs have pulled a procedural rabbit out of a hat and it is over.

We'll see. If this ever goes anywhere you be sure to post an I-Told-You-So and I will dutifully reply. Because when it doesn't you can bet I'm going to.

[blm]

28. deal ;)

.

[bbgrunt]

33. Why oh why are so many dems so wishy-washy

about backing Feingold's motion? Just like with Murtha, they all run and hide when presented with a chance to back those taking risks.

It is a travesty......not some clever manuever.

[blm]

34. Then you don't back Feingold? Because Feingold WANTED it in committee

and it's the GOPs and their mediawhores pushing an immediate vote to bury the debate, the scrutiny and the story. So the corporate media keeps spinning it against Dems as if they're not supporting censure.

Having it in committee PROLONGS debate and opportunities to gather more documents that expose Bush's lawlessness.

You want immediacy then you're on the same side as Cheney and Frist. Feinglod wanted censure IN COMMITTEE and sets up further discussion of Bush's crimes and culpability. That is what will give censure a fighting chance.

[Toots]

35. Request for material from the Administration

:rofl: How many times have Democratic "Leaders" asked the Whitehouse to provide documents and other material only to be ignored. What did they do about it? I wasn't referring to this particular incident but in general. Do I agree with Frist and Cheney? What a very stupid question. I am disgruntled because the Democrats in a position to Demand the Law be followed are quiet as a church mouse. I find their silence to be agreement that the Administration has the right to break the Laws as he sees fit. I expect that when documents are requested and denied or just plain ignored they would raise a big stink about it and close down Congress until the demands are met but do they? They ask and when denied just resume their daily routine as if nothing had happened but they get to say they at least asked for the documents. I want and demand more from them..

[blm]

36. Then you want quick vote and move on, too? Because if you don't support

the issue of censure being taken up by the judiciary committee and debated there or furthered there, then the other choice is the one supported by Cheney and Frist.

[atreides1]

8. They requested it, but will they get any of it???

Yes they put in a request for documents, but they will be screwed by the Repukes who have enjoyed making their own deals with the White House. Roberts did it for the Intelligence Committee, and you can bet that as we sit here Specter is doing the same thing for his Judiciary Committee.

[ProSense]

16. Will Bush be censured without Republican support? n/t

[Cocoa]

19. they might

:bounce:

[blm]

22. The point being is that DEBATE CONTINUES and increases the chances

of censure.

You either side with the GOPs and push for Senators to declare a position now and get the past the story or you side FOR censure debate to continue in committee and in the public arena with a reasonable chance of obtaining more documentation to back up their efforts.

[peacebird]

3. Unfortunately most folks are too comfortable to care

It's going to have to get a lot worse before they will notice.

[atreides1]

4. It would seem very true, what you say.

I have to agree with you, everytime in the last year when the "leadership" had a chance to make a stand, they backed down.

Yes they have done some things but not enough to claim that they are a strong opposition party. I wonder that if the Dems do take back the Congress this year, will we be able to tell the difference between them and the Republicans. Anyone can promise to do the job right, but will they? Can we really trust all of the Democrats to work for the good of the American people, or will we get the same type of government only this time with a D instead of an R.

We won't know until it's too late, because the example that is there now, shows that we might end up with the same thing.

A revolt, a revolution, does not have to be violent, unless the government fires the first shot!!!

[lanah]

15. exactly

Nancy Pelosi will not pursue impeachment even if the Dems control the House- she said 'elections have consequences'...so they stole the election, we tried to get our 'representatives' to stand up for WE THE PEOPLE, they ignored us and now we have to live with it.

Look at Feingold- the AMERICAN PEOPLE SUPPORT HIM but they are afraid to take a stand WTF! It is because the know that Diebold controls the elections. They are openly admitting we do not have a democracy or they would stand up for the people who vote for them.

I think throwing the whole bunch out and starting over is a great idea

www.NotOneIncumbent.com

[converted_democrat]

6. I have to say, I'm beginning to agree with you.. It makes me sick to

even think about it, but I think you're right.

[Name removed]

7. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[donco6]

9. I don't know if anyone can argue with that.

What other possibility is there? It's beyond any logical argument anymore.

[OKNancy]

10. I think they are afraid.

Afraid of public opinion and backlash. Afraid of what their constituents will think and what the talkingheads/media elite will say. They are afraid for their jobs and afraid of being labeled.
Feingold has always been courageous. Only when public opinion moves to the side of Feingold will it change. I really do think it's starting to move.

[abluelady]

12. Maybe their first borns have been threatened?

[leftchick]

21. afraid doesn't cut it for me anymore

I used to think that yet the polls reflect that Democrats want action against the fascist regime. They are aware of the polls and are not responding to them. That is one of the reasons I have come to this sad conclusion, I feel they have become as compromised and as corrupted as the repukes.

[rhett o rick]

11. They all are rich and have chosen the side of the corporate elitists. nt

[sproutster]

13. Agree

It's too easy to buy a congressman these days. You'd think there would be some sort of laws against it, eh?

[KittyWampus]

14. Maybe you should ask your Dem friends why they don't seek out

accurate information about what our elected Democratic Leaders are actually doing rather then assuming they aren't doing anything.

Maybe you should have told them that rather then relying on you, they should do their own work and start searching for news on what our Democratic leaders are doing on the internet and provide links.

Maybe instead of buying into the bullshit Democrats aren't doing anything, you could inform them of all the activities they are actually engaged in.

They sure as hell aren't going to get the information from the Corporate Media.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

17. "Politics as usual" is the byword - aka CYA

It would be nice, although amazing, to have representatives rather than self-proclaimed (or, proclaimed by the media) "leaders". We could call it "democracy". But, alas, neither the "good cops"(D) or the "bad cops"(R)of the oligarchy would allow it.

[pinto]

18. To be fair, your friends sound as if they're "too busy" for politics,

yet they want some responsive representation and political change in Washington.

It takes an informed and *involved* electorate to support change as well as a body of representatives willing to carry that support into political action.

I realize your anecdote is probably a brief snip of impromptu conversations, but I'm just sayin'...it goes both ways.

I agree, as well, that corporate money - the K Street mentality - has skewered the political process. But I'm not willing to write off the process itself in the name of "revolt".

(ed for spell)

[Beelzebud]

23. Because everytime a Democratic leader makes a move, he's shot down

by members of his own party.

As we all saw with Feingold last week.

The Democrats in D.C. don't realize how easy this could be for them. All they have to do is stand up and fight... You know... Be an opposition party!

[leftchick]

30. bingo

isn't that the truth.

[Lexingtonian]

26. "I'm a Democrat, and I need a Big Leader to follow Now"

Doesn't anything strike you as wrong about this "thinking"?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

31. The irony is beyond the locksteppers.

[madrchsod]

29. the people who controls the medias

controls the message..that is why they want to shut down the democratic underground or any site that they cannot control.
take a look at what "they" want to do--- shut down free political thought-bloggers and free commerce-craigslist..ever checkout the political board on craigslist?

only a few democrats have stood up ,while the rest of the democrats are hunched in fear of george bush. what a bunch of whiny liberals...opps that`s what the republicans have always called them!

[JNelson6563]

32. Did you offer any solutions?

Like telling people to get involved and become the party? :shrug:

Part of our problem as Dems is waiting for a hero to sweep up off our feet and save us. For such "strategy" we deserve whatever we get.

Julie

[leftchick]

38. most all of us were involved in the Kerry campaign

and all of us have been hugely disappointed in that and our local Democrats lack of involvement in the paperless voting issue in my state. I have done so much in the verified voting effort in my area and it has been thwarted not only by repukes but Democrats as well. It was mind boggling until I realized, they all work for the same interests and it is not us. :(

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

37. I Think It's Sad That Your Friends Had To Hear Such A Weak Reply.

Yup. That's what we need. We need DU'ers to trash dems wholesale not only on here, but even in public to other dems who haven't had the pleasure of being on DU and getting the dem bashing for themselves.

Yeah. Great strategy. Exactly what we need. Bravo. :eyes:

[mnhtnbb]

40. And what would you have said?

[bread_and_roses]

39. In politics, perception IS reality, and in this case, Reality is Reality

too. Reality and Perception match. Whatever the ins-and-outs of this particular move, the public is justified in its' condemnation of the Dems as spineless door-mats.

They rolled over when their R "colleagues" in Congress shut them out of committees, introduced bills that no one had a chance to review, broke Senate rules to sustain debate, etc.

They proceeded with business as usual while this illegitimate junta has trampled over the separation of powers and defied the Legislative Branch by refusing documents, refusing to testify under oath, etc.

They ignored the gross violations of civil rights in two elections, they voted for CAFTA and NAFTA, they ignored the descent of our inner cities into Third World hell-holes for the last thirty years, ignored the erosion of Labor rights and wages, engaged in poor bashing and passed the obscene welfare "reform," supported a Drug "War" that is racist and classis...

And all that - I'm sure I've forgotten lots too - on top of so many of them voting for things like the Bankruptcy Bill, the fascist "Patriot Act," ect.

And all that doesn't even get into the foreign policy. Or how many still make mealy mouthed excuses for the fact that most of what we are doing in Iraq seems to be killing children, one way or another. Even with the populace turning against the war, they are compliant.

But I digress - lets just stick with their supine "business as usual" while Congress is high-jacked repeatedly. Extreme conditions - which the actions of both the R majority and the Admin most certainly have created - call for extreme responses. And no, I do not mean violence. I mean walking out, shutting it down, and commandeering enough Press to tell the people why. I mean showing up with strong condemnation every time there is a Press moment. I mean traveling around their States and Districts telling every home town audience and reporter how and why their Democracy and Constitution are being hi-jacked. There are ways to create Press coverage - non-violent ways, legal ways. So don't bother telling me how the MSM shuts them out. What's to shut out? A few lone voices, Connors, Hinchey, the others - are easy to shut out. If so many were not so compliant, they could create plenty of Press.

If so many were not so compliant, we would have an opposition.

If so many were not so compliant, we would have change.
(immediate edit for spelling errors)