If health care were national, most of our salaries would *rise*...

[IndyOp]

I just heard some interesting facts on the Thom Hartmann show. You can listen to it 24/7 at White Rose Society. I may not have gotten everything that Thom said right, but he is usually very, very careful with his facts and figures and it got me to think about national healthcare in a whole new way. The conclusion that salaries would rise is my own - based on the hope that the money businesses currently pay for health insurance would be paid directly to employees if national health insurance were put in place.

Try this one out on your friends of all political persuasions:

The average amount of money spent on health care per year is about $10,500 - including co-pays, drugs, and the amount of money your employer pays for your health insurance instead of paying you that money in salary.

If we nationalized healthcare, the average amount of money spent on health care per year would drop to $5,000 per year per person because government administered health insurance (like Medicare or Medicaid) or healthcare (VA Centers) is much less expensive than private. Note: The administrative costs for Medicare/Medicaid is about 3% ($97 out of every $100 goes for medical care). The administrative costs for private health insurance is lower: 2%. Private health insurance companies are telling the truth when they say they are more efficient, so administrative costs are lower. What they don't tell you is that only $85 out of every $100 (or less) actually goes to health care -- why? Advertising! Profit!

If we fold everyone into the nationalized healthcare system, there will be more people to cover, some of whom aren't working and won't contribute in taxes, so the average amount of money I will spend on health care per year will be higher than $5000, for the sake of simplicity let's say $6,000.

That means my salary rises by about $4,500 per year (which will be reduced by taking out taxes) -- but, still, my salary rises and I get to live in a nation in which everyone is covered.

I am not taking into account the HUGE savings in Doctor expenses that will happen when all insurance companies use one form and no longer have to spend ridiculous amounts of time trying to get the insurance companies to pay claims.

On edit: Of course, people who are employed who don't have health insurance have no chance of seeing a rise in their salary - but they do get health insurance and everyone in their family is covered.

Other issues? Thoughts?

[SoCalDem]

1. That "should be" the result, and "might be" if there were more unionized

employees.. What I fear is that greedy "bosses" would see it as just another way to pocket more money...BUT...it would certainly give employees a heads up, and a tangible place to start salary negotiations.. It would help companies become more attractive for competitive prices..

Employers already have more control over employees than they should.. holding them hostage to their health care gives the bosses the power over life and death...and that's too much..

Employer-paid health care benefits were supposed to be a temporary thing anyway, but employers liked having the additional bargaining chip, and could explain away the smaller/no raises by using health care costs as the pervasive reasoning.. There are few employees who would readily give up their family's health for a few dollars more a week, so they rarely complain (to the bosses)...

Employer-paid healthcare benefits also has let the government "off the hook" for decades..

[IndyOp]

4. Thanks for that perspective...

We have lost much since Reagan re: labor rights & unions.

:(

[bmcatt]

2. Universal health care is the only way to go

I'm self-employed and I spend a ridiculous amount on health insurance. I don't care that I can deduct it directly from my revenue - it's still too damn expensive, and that's with $30 co-pays and only a 50% prescription coverage.

I still don't understand why it is that "employment = health-care". There's no humanely justifiable reason that any employer, *any* employer, should have any input into this process.

[IndyOp]

5. We *must* put everyone in the same health insurance pool -

to keep it affordable for everyone. I paid for 'hit-by-a-bus' health insurance -- the kind that covers nothing unless you are hit by a bus and have to have multiple surgeries and spend weeks in the hospital -- and still it was expensive.

:grr:

[Iniquitous Bunny]

3. We don't have national health insurance for one reason.

Corporate profits are better the way things are now. Since the main goal of elected conservatives is optimizing corporate profit rather than serving those who elected them, the status quo makes them all rather happy. They could give two figs about the what the average person pays or does without.

[pitohui]

10. that is not so

corporations have said outright that universal health care is better and that costs of employer provided health care are one reason we can't compete w. europe any more

ask william ford!

[Telly Savalas]

13. True.

A few isolated corporations (e.g. insurance companies) would be adversely affected by single-payer universal health care, but on the whole most would benefit.

[Iniquitous Bunny]

14. Not in the case of HMO's and pharmaceutical companies.

Both very heavy political contributors. I'd most definitely agree in terms of manufacturing companies. Still though, they are at a better advantage in terms of employer coverance than when compared to small business. They are the ones who really suffer.

[lanah]

6. Auto insurance would be almost nil as well.

I heard this- there is is no good reason not to switch to a national health care system. Right now the middle man is taking all the money.

The other interesting part of this is auto insurance. The reason auto insurance is so high in because an awful accident could occur that might cost hundreds of thousands in the hospital for the victim. IF we had universal health care, auto insurance could just be about insuring the cost of the vehicle which should be much cheaper.

[Iniquitous Bunny]

7. That makes sense as well!

:thumbsup:

[pitohui]

9. right and it would save a lot of court time

a law of so-called ambulance chaser lawsuits are abt litigators trying to get sufficient $$$ for clients to help them deal w. a lifetime of disability -- which gets expensive

current problem is, you get hurt, even if you get a million dollar settlement, your lawyer gets a lot of that, and it sounds like a lot at first but it turns out not to be enough

a friend in her 30s got a six figure settlement for a broken back, she can never work again, how long do you think her settlement lasted?

with universal care a person at least would know they would get a lifetime of medical care even if they were hit by an uninsured driver or a driver w. minimum assets who had nothing you could sue to get

[IndyOp]

16. Great point! We would have to watch the auto insurance

companies to see that this would happen...

:kick:

[pinto]

8. Good points. Employer paid H. Ins. was an answer to WWII wage freezes.

To compete for new employees in an extremely tight labor market, large employers started offering health insurance benefit packages as incentives, in lieu of higher wages.

[Nikia]

11. It would also encourage more full time permanent employees

Some companies have a lot of temp or part time employees working for them because they pay health insurance for full time permanent employees and are unable or unwilling to extend that benefit to more employees. The company I work for now, pays 75% of our health insurance which works out to $4/hour and premiums rise every year. When other full time benefits such as paid holidays and vacation, it becomes cheaper to pay the temp agency than pay health insurance if the position is one that doesn't require much training.

[IndyOp]

15. Excellent point - I hadn't thought of that -

It would create corporations that were more fair with workers - in lots of different ways.

:hi:

[leftofthedial]

12. not in today's capitalist-corporate Murka

CEO salaries would rise

others would continue to plummet.

[lanah]

17. kick

because this is a really important topic that affects everyone's quality of life.

[IndyOp]

18. Thanks! ;-) (n/t)

:hi: