The Moral Lowground - PNAC/Bush's Biggest mistake. Retaking the Highground

[Peter Frank]

How can America expect to successfully export democracy by implementing the same secretive, aggressive, destructive, demoralizing, ideological and totalitarian mindset of our traditional enemies?


Solution:

We voters take to the streets, phones, puters, & snail mail -- insisting on a government committed to spreading democracy the old fashioned way ...by setting a practical example for genuine freedom in the world.

[tocqueville]

1. yes but the model has to be redefined first

to be fair it doesn't only apply to the American model. But what's maybe not understood is that the American model of society isn't "cool" any longer. Even in its old form. Things have changed, minds have evolved. American standpoints about state organisation, voting rules, economical model, abortion, death penalty, environment, judiciary system, state/party model etc... are questioned.

[cap]

3. belafonte just gave a speech

where he stated that overseas, the American model is rejected ... and I dont mean just our politicians but our system... our music, arts, culture.

[tocqueville]

6. rejecting culture is wrong

and BTW it's not really true. Those who reject American culture (music, movies etc..) are doing it from a a political fundamentalist agenda. It reminds of a a reverse "Freedom Fries" and I can assure you it doesn't apply to Europe.

[Peter Frank]

4. To me, the old fashioned wa means...

...to be proactive in building democracy -- independent of any other concern.

Part of the reason for this thread is that we've all heard that "the opposition has no plan."

There was a great Democratic plan in place and working in America, 'till the iso-linear assholes finally got total power and portrayed the forces of good as counter-productive & unpatriotic.

Never trust a "patriot" (or a patriot act) who has to use the word "patriot" in order to get a vote.

I was thoroughly enjoying a game of darts in a tavern one night. A local politician came in & asked for votes in the next weeks election. I was the first to pipe up & ask him what he believed in. Having seen how much fun I was having -- he looked at me straight in the eye & said, "I believe in darts!"

)

[tocqueville]

7. the problem is that "democracy" means different things

if you mean fundamental liberties as defined in the declaration of human rights, there is no argument about it. But democracy is far more than that through its means of expression. For example the British, French and Scandinavian models (to take some examples) are very different from the American one. If you compare for example the relation between Church and State and the definition and role of communities (based on ethnic and religious backgounds) what's mainstream in the US (even the "Old" US Church-State relation) is considered as an abomination in many European countries. So first a definition of democracy, then spreading.

[Skink]

2. It's all about the money now. Bush crime Inc. is in full swing...

for the rest of the decade.

[Peter Frank]

5. I'd Like to say that you're Wrong!!!

And I would if you were...