My niece is being sent to a Xtian re-education camp.

[maveric]

This my brother's estranged daughter. He and his ex had to give her up at birth due to drug addiction(long story),but he has been in communication with her over the past 5 years. She's 17 and turned out to be a great kid and a "free thinker". The only problem is her adoptive parents. RW/Repug/bu$h loving, Fundies. My 20 yr old son got her e-mail and phone # and they have been friends for the past 2 years. The parents even flew my son up there for a visit where they went way out of their way to proselytize my kid. That didn't work so they have forbidden her from communicating with him.

Over the past 3 years they have been really concerned about the public school system in Cupertino Ca, where they live. EVOLUTION is being taught there! This provoked them to take out a 2nd mortgage to send her to a private,Xtain, school. They were still outraged at her watching MTV, hanging around the mall and listening to mainstream music. She believes in evolution and wont back down from that belief.

This morning she sent my son an e-mail stating that her parents are sending her to a special school in Montana for troubled Xtian teens. OOOkay!! What does that sound like to you? She told him that they have to dress conservatively and have a virtual blackout to the outside world to get her back on track with Jesus, and dispel the theory of evolution from her troubled mind. This girl is an honor roll student,never got in trouble in school or anywhere else. Doesn't drink,smoke or use drugs. Her parents are saying that there are too many bad influences in Cupertino and she needs to go back with Jesus. She is not happy with this at all. the word "Depressed" comes to mind.

I dont think that she will do well in that environment. My brother is pissed(although he has no say in her upbringing),as is my son.I
really feel bad for this girl and fear an abuse issue. Its not my kid, but I still feel for her.

Oh,did I tell you that they sent her to place like this 2 years ago for the same reasons and she attempted suicide?

Whats wrong with these people?

[fooj]

1. There is a place in San Jose where teens can live in a co-op environment..

I don't know the details...but maybe you could look into it for her. Don't need parental approval. I believe that it is for 17 and older.........

Peace.

[mandyky]

2. Have your nephew pass on to your neice

that she could sue for emancipation. Since she is 17, she coould probably run away and get away with it. Maybe she could contact the local ACLU for a lawyer or a guardian ad lidem to get her into foster care.

[cynatnite]

11. Good idea...this girl needs options

I know in some states, an adult can ask a teen over the age of 16 to come live with them and if the teen agrees without the parents' permission, there is nothing anyone can do about it. I think Idaho has this law.

It's worth checking into.

[MissMarple]

67. I f the school gets her, they may keep her for the money.

The bible belt is notorious for these "schools". Her "parents" are prime targets for a scam. Maybe we need an underground for religiously abused kids to move them into a protected environment.

[peacebird]

3. for them she's better off dead "with Jesus" than as a sinner believing

in evolution.

sick bastards. I am so sorry for the girl, can she not go to court to declare herself emancipated? I would think the ACLU might be willing to help, an honor roll student who has never been in trouble? No way a judge should buy sending her to a camp for "troubled teens"

[maveric]

19. When my son spent a weekend up there he noticed sever hypocrisy.

The Mom is an RN/charge nurse in a hospital and rules the family like a guard in a Turkish prison. Always screaming and ranting about how "messed up" the girl is and how society is. The Dad is a former businessman from Rhode Island who hasn't worked in years. He sits home and smokes cigarettes all day long. The Mom has him silenced. He has no say in whatever decisions are to made about the kid.
When my kid visited they asked him what religion he is associated with. He said none,but his Dad, me, is Catholic. This brought silence for a while till she stated that "there is still hope for you entering the gates of heaven despite what your Dad is". This pissed my kid off. They forced him to go to church with them and had the pastor talk with him after the service. This made him feel very uncomfortable and they were pissed when he refused to join their church. He was sent home two days early because of this.

[knitter4democracy]

26. Okay.

That mom is one messed up chick. I've known people like her, and they usually have a breakdown at some point.

Does the pastor realize that the husband is not the head of the family? Does he know what's going on? He might be a total idiot jerk, but he also might be a source of respite for that poor girl.

If you don't mind, I'm going to PM you with some ideas.

[SharonAnn]

86. Is she a "God Warrior"? The Mom, I mean.

[SaveElmer]

4. The day she turns 18...

I would drive up there and pick her up...assuming the brainwashing didn't take. Sounds like she is strong-willed though!

[maveric]

20. My brother is considering that.

He's in San Jose and is very concerned about this.

[truebrit71]

28. Yup. I agree.

As soon as she turns 18 get her the heck outta there...

[Warren DeMontague]

31. Yeah, if she can't hold out until she's 18, she should look into

emancipation.

[derby378]

5. When the Romans crucified Jesus, THESE schmucks held the nails steady

They're not Christians. They're fundies.

Remember what Ghandi once said? "I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ."

[mark11727]

6. How long before she turns 18 and can be emancipated from these wackos?

[Kerrytravelers]

7. She needs to get legal counsel and petition the court for emancipation.

Is there a way you and your son can help her with that? be very careful that your communications aren't being eavesdropped on or something worse could happen to her. She is 17 and most sensible judges will listen to her if she is a mature young lady who wants to go somewhere with her life.

[truebrit71]

29. Agreed, that's another good idea...

By forcing her to take medication they have demonstratede their evil intent. With any luck the case would drag on for months and when she turns 18 she can tell them to go pound sand..

[acmavm]

8. What's wrong with them? Everything. Ignorance, intolerance, bigotry,

racism, you name it they suffer from it.

But what seems to scare them the most, at least in my opinion, is the thought that access to any ideas outside of their own narrow mindset just drives them into a mania. They are not capable of reason, they are not capable of debate, they are not capable of understanding that maybe they don't have all the answers and what 'answers' they do have just might be hurtful to others or just downright wrong.

[Warpy]

9. Look into the emancipation laws in that state

and contact a child welfare lawyer when you do it. It sounds like she's a good kid who is doing all the right things and that her parents are the ones who need a deprogramming.

Good luck.

[vvera]

10. Is she in the system?

Meaning does she have a social worker? She can refuse to go to the school. Especially if she is a foster child, just have her tell her social worker.

[maveric]

23. I'm not sure. How would I find that out?

They probably dont believe in any outside sources.

[elehhhhna]

12. You must contact child protective & legal services, given her past

attempt at suicide. She must become an emancipated minor, pronto.

[Cleita]

13. Well, if she's seventeen she only has to put up with them for

one more year. On the plus side, Montana is a beautiful place to learn about nature and evolution (quietly and on the side) as long as she pretends to go along with them. I had to do the same in Catholic boarding school, you know mass every day, rosary, endless sacrifice and prayer. At least they did teach us evolution.

I found out in that kind of environment, especially since they had complete control over me because my family lived in South America at the time, that it's best to go along, don't call attention to yourself and tell youreself everyday that you are one day closer to emancipation.

If she is already a free thinker, the only way they are going to make any inroads is to use brain washing techniques. This is where the go along to get along and don't call attention to yourself philosophy kicks in because they will leave her alone and concentrate on the kid that needs to be "helped".

[ClintonTyree]

17. You can't pretend with those people.........

it's heavy-duty indoctrination, similar to a "scared straight" program. There's no way she'd survive an environment like that. She needs to be emancipated ASAP and have the court forbid them to send her there until after the hearing. These people have driven her to an attempted suicide once already, they'll finish the job this time.

[Cleita]

30. I agree with you. However, this is an alternate strategy in case

she ends up going there anyway. It helps to know that there is a way to endure this if you have to. I went through three years of this BS, with nuns in scratchy starched wimples and woolens, who operated on keeping you scared.

The thing is it will be very hard at first, but eventually she will identify with other kids like herself, who are there unwillingly, but are being so-called deprogrammed. They will form a sort of secret cabal with codes and language to fly under the radar. This is what will get her and the other kids through it.

I really hope this doesn't happen to her and that other arrangements can be made. This is just a way of surviving that I am mentioning. The best thing is to agree with everything on the surface and don't call attention to yourself. I am really bothered with the fundie prediliction of beating up on their kids both physically and mentally. I think the whole sick movement needs to be investigated for child abuse.

This happened with the Catholics you know. When I went to school your parents would never believe you if you complained about a nun mentally abusing you or coming up with some very innovative physical punishment not involving rulers or slapping. Every one's parents had the attitude that sister was right and you were wrong.

Well, things changed and parents started getting social services and law enforcement involved so you don't find this kind of discipline in Catholic schools anymore. It looks like the fundies need to be reported to the authorities as well.

[Warpy]

18. It sounds like this kid won't LIVE a year in that place

Remember, they nearly drove her to suicide two years ago.

Child protective services and a LAWYER are the best bet. Get her away from those wack jobs fast or she's going to die.

[maveric]

22. Thats what bothering my brother,my son and me.

They have no respect for her or what she believes in or doesnt believe in.

[Cleita]

35. Maybe this time she will, if the adults who love her

prepare her for the experience and give her some tools for coping and some hope that she will get through it. I am all for keeping her out of that situation, but if that fails she will need more support than ever to get through this.

[maveric]

38. My brother would be a god parent. Although he pissed that away 17 yrs ago.

He's been sober for 16 years. Works as an engineer in the Silicon Valley. He's level-headed and intellegent.
The parents granted her request to contact him a few years back and they have had supervied visits. They seemed to hit it off,much to the parents displeasue. I can understand where they are coming from there. He gave the kid up and they raised her as their own.
But she is very unhappy in that overly controlling environmentand I feel for her safety.

[Cleita]

43. I hope it works out in the best way for you and her. n.t

[verse18]

68. It's never too late

for your brother to be a responsible parent.:-)

[vvera]

14. If she is already in the system she has tons of rights!

For her safety you should hot line this to the local social services immediately.
They can handle the situation without anyone knowing who reported this too!

[WePurrsevere]

15. California? Here's some info on emancipating minors...

http://chhd.csun.edu/shelia/436/lecture0405.html

How long before she's 18?

Hmm... the way they're using religion is a form of emotional abuse, if she tried to commit suicide she may still have a case worker in child protective services... tell her to contact that person if they were helpful before.

[maveric]

25. She just turned 17.

[delete_bush]

16. Hopefully she can get out of this, if not

why not have her document her experience, write an article and do the talk show circuit. At least it will give her some focus while there which makes the time easier to endure. Turn the negative into a positive.

[Cleita]

33. This is what I was kind of suggesting. Yours is an excellent

idea, but she will probably have to do it in her head. When I was in school, they periodically went through our notebooks, diaries and letters when we were in class. So she should never write anything down while she is there.

[knitter4democracy]

46. Nothing written.

Remember, she has zero privacy. I'm sure that mom goes through absolutely everything, from private messages to e-mail to knowing her ring tone. I think she should write, too, but she would have to do it all in code and keep it somewhere not at school or at home.

[Nobody]

61. I know the drill

She should commit things to memory, perhaps she can be the hero that shuts down the system.

I've been through something similar (thankfully not live-in, however it did rob me of two years of education).

I had a very active fantasy life and pretended life was a cover story. She may have to do the same. It was how I coped, and it worked. I was also the biggest ass kisser the world has ever seen. I bamboozled professional shrinks into believing that I really was what I wanted them to think I was.

The good news is that she can come out of this a strong young woman with an unshakeable sense of self. Damned if it has to come this painful. I for one would never want to do it again.

To the original poster:
Good luck. I hope you get her out of there, pronto. I'm very glad she knows she has an ally. Let her know we are also her allies.

[knitter4democracy]

63. You survived.

In those situations, you do whatever you need to do to survive, short of hurting someone else. I went to a conservative evangelical college, and I did what it took to survive there, too.

I just hurt for this poor girl. She sounds like such an amazing soul of light, and they're doing everything they can to extinguish that. :(

[Nobody]

70. That's why I hate stories like this one

Because I've been there.

My parents, however, are not to blame. They were browbeaten into letting it happen and no one is allowed to evem bring it up. I once did, telling my dad that it wasn't his fault and that his original response was right, but it hurt him too bad and he didn't want to talk about it.

It's going to take time, but she has some great people on her side who will be there for her when she needs them. If she knows that (and I think she does) she'll be OK. She's going to need a lot of space, understanding, healing.

[maveric]

75. I hope that she can do just that and not cave in.

A mind IS a terrible thing to waste.

[knitter4democracy]

21. Crap.

Good news is that there's often an underground of support in places like that (I went to an evangelical college, quite conservative, and there was a quiet underground for us to survive). She needs to quietly observe for a few days until she can figure out who's an informant and who isn't. When she figures that out (informants are easy to spot, usually), then she can work at making friends who will help her survive.

Those parents are completely stupid. Her salvation is not in trouble, and I can't believe their pastor would be okay with that.

Hmmmmm. Have your brother call up their pastor and tell him everything. If they've talked with him at all, chances are he doesn't know the whole story. Have him ask the pastor for help to resolve this family issue--he is still family, and it is a family issue. It might work.

[maveric]

27. I failed to tell you that they have her on a bunch of anti-depressants.

She hates taking them for they make her feel like a "zombie".

[knitter4democracy]

41. Very common.

Many kids pretend to take them but flush them or whatever. I had several students do that when I was teaching. Even if she takes them at home, she might be able to cut down how many she takes.

The best thing would be to get her out of there entirely, as that woman's all about control. If that can't happen, that it's about survival with her dignity and core self intact. She needs a good counselor at school or a teacher who can listen. Does she have that?

Grrrrr! Honestly, it makes me want to open up a business to help non-evangelicals communicate with fundies and evangelicals and get things done. I would love to give that woman a piece of my mind.

[Ian David]

24. A cult by any other name... n/t

[stepnw1f]

32. These Camps Should Be Shut Down

for mental cruelty against youth.

[Hippo_Tron]

34. If I were a Governor

I would go out of my way to find a reason to send National Guard troops to shut down these places and get the AG to prosecute the people who run them.

[maveric]

36. I dont think that Ah-Nold would give a shit.

[Hippo_Tron]

39. No, and any Governor that did this would be accused of abusing power

Doesn't mean that I wouldn't do it anyway but hey I'm not a Governor. BTW, if the school is in Montana then it falls under Schweitzer's jurisdiction. There's more of a chance that Schweitzer would do something like this than Schwarzenegger but I still wouldn't expect that he would.

[Hippo_Tron]

37. The first question is, would she be willing to leave her adoptive parents?

All of the ideas that have been mentioned in the above posts are good ones. But leaving your parents is incredibly hard to do even if it is because of mere financial reasons. What are her feelings about that?

[maveric]

40. She's run away before. But always came back.

They are the only "parents" she knows,for the most part.

[knitter4democracy]

42. Hmm.

She sounds more and more like my SIL all the time. There should be a support group for kids with super-religious controlling parents.

Now that she has you and her bio dad, would she feel comfortable living outside of that crazy family? Running away without a great place to go to is scary, but she has options now she didn't have before.

[DetroitProle]

44. to the gulag I see.

"re-education" was a common term.
I hope she's saved up some money or has some good friends and when she's 18 she can tell her parents to go fuck themselves.

[maveric]

45. My brother is willing to take her in. She has allready expressed her...

desire to do so much to the horror of the parents.

[pnwmom]

47. Does she still love these people? Does she want to maintain ties?

Because it would be a lot easier if she didn't.

[maveric]

48. She loves them for the good things.

But hates the repressive environment she must endure.

[pnwmom]

49. What is your time frame? When are they sending her?

[maveric]

50. Sometime this week. My son isnt really sure as to when.

They are packing her bags as we speak.

[pnwmom]

52. You need a lawyer. TODAY. Call the ACLU. n/t

[Canuckistanian]

51. Do you have any contact with her?

Backdoor channels, I mean? PO box, email address, PM, anything like that?

You should let her know that she has an option.

[maveric]

56. I've only spoken to her once when she called my son.

She seemed very nice and articulate. Her parents had her cell # changed and her old e-mail deleted. But my son did receive an e-mail from her today....
I'll try to get a message to her explaining her rights and options.

[Canuckistanian]

57. Good, I'd like to know how this turns out

And remember, you've got all of us here for resources, etc.

I don't like the idea of intruding in anyone's business, but this is basically being done against her will.

[maveric]

59. And I thank you all too!

I just hate to see a bright kid forced into mental slavery and ignorance, against her will.

[eppur_se_muova]

82. Can you set up a cell phone in your own name, and slip it to her unseen?

They may confiscate them where she's going. But if they don't she can still have an emergency "hot line", assuming you can get it to her, which sounds like a big "if".

If nothing else, she can dial 911 that way.

[WestSeattle2]

53. Huh?

Just to make sure I'm understanding this, your niece is 17, doesn't drink, smoke, or do drugs, is an exceptional student, and doesn't get into trouble in, or out of, school.....and her parents are sending her to a school for TROUBLED kids?!!

I'm sorry, but that is absolute insanity. That poor girl. I hope she understands how absurd that is.

[maveric]

58. She belives in EVOLUTION and shuns the Bible.

And all the evils of TV, movies, video games and CUPERTINO are the cause for that. The Mom willhave none of that. She wants her to grow up to be a psychotic,controlling monster like she is.
Cupertino is not exactly a bastion of liberalism. Ever been there. Its a Red spot in the Blue Bay Area.

[TrogL]

81. Their version of "troubled" is

doesn't believe in their version of Jaysus/Jebus or "fambly values".

See links below.

[mdmc]

54. that sucks

I used to work with at risk teens. there is a better way.

[Ilsa]

55. What a horribly sad story and what terribly unappreciative parents.

They have this wonderful daughter and she's good and smart and they want to control her and wear away her spirit.

Sounds like that place is alot like the Roloff Rebekkah Home for Girls in Corpus Christi Tx ages ago. She needs to document anything they do in terms of punishment and discipline.

Actually, I hope she'll tell her parents whatever they want to hear and play the roll so she won't have to leave.

[maveric]

60. She's somewhat of an artist and she writes short stories & poetry.

That is all from the cauldron of Satan as far as the Mom is concerned. Free spirited thinking and creativity=evil.
And the castrated, silent Dad shuts his mouth and lets the Mom do as she pleases.

[pnwmom]

62. Her public school guidance counselor/psychologist is another resource.

[Nobody]

65. That is what is going to save her

Once she gets out of this horrific environment, she's never going to run out of inspiration. Fiction and imagination is what she needs so she can cope.

I had to do the same when I was about 12. It wasn't live-in, thankfully, but I had psychologists chipping away at my personality and though I went to school, I had no education. When I got into a real school two years later, I was so far behind, the fact that I qualify for Mensa is why I didn't sink into the quicksand of eternal Fs. So many others who were at that place with me quit school the instant they could and who knows what happened to them. They're lucky to have a sixth grade education in 8 chronological years.

Good luck to her. She will need to retreat into her own world for a while. She is in my thoughts. She's going to be OK, thanks to you.

[pitohui]

64. if she's 17 can't she just leave home legally?

in louisiana you can, why not california, aren't they supposed to be more advanced?

in her shoes, i would run away and figure things out from there, they can't hold a 17 yr old who has committed no crime

come to think of it, i did run away for a lot less cause than being locked up in a brainwashing camp

ok, edit after reading further, it sounds like there is a whole big court thing required to get emancipated in california, crap, i'm out of suggestions unless you can afford a lawyer, and the suicide thing does not look good, esp. if she is refusing to take her anti-depressant medication

all i can think to do is send a :hug: and hope for the best, plum out of ideas

maybe in montana it is different and once in that state, since she is 17, she can refuse to be committed to this institution?

she needs a real lawyer methinks

[maveric]

66. She's probably scared with no safe place to go.

She could go to her bio-father,my brother.But he has had restraing orders on him since she wasadopted. They tried desperatly to keep her away from him.
If my Mom hadnt made contact with the parents many years ago(she hired a PI),we would have never heard anything from her.
Thats another long and mysterious story.

[pitohui]

71. has she any money at all?

in some states a 17 year old who is not a criminal is not going to be pursued as a runaway, she just needs to get there

hell, quietly join a spring break group coming to work on gulf coast recovery and network with other young people

lots of kids in that age group are quietly couchsurfing until they're able to get an apartment and a real job

i understand she can't endanger her biological father because of the restraining order, but a bright young healthy girl with just a little cash in her pocket can usually make her way if she's reasonably street smart

i just hung out and met people when i was that age and then traveled abt, not that i advise such for kids who have a great home and a chance to go straight to college but if they are just going to lock her up...?

[maveric]

73. I dont have many details as to what she may have finacially.

I'll have my son e-mail her, if the Mom doesnt intercept it.

A couple of months ago the Mom called my brother, yelling at him for "messing her head up". He sent her a digital camera(with the parents permission),for Xmas. Then she acted out and like all hypocritical fundies,she blamed it all on her contact with my brother, who has been very careful with this issue.

She was the one who wanted to contact him! Not the other way around. My Bro prety much wrote her off years ago, but thanks to my late Mom, she contacted him, with the parents permission.

[alittlelark]

69. Cupertino is the next town over. Their school sys. is EXCELLENT.

I would suggest that she talk to her school counselor or principle. There are very few whacked out Fundies in this area - I think that has to do w/ the level of education many here have achieved.

She, at 17, will have MANY more rights than a 13 year old in the same situation.

Best of luck - check you PM's

[maveric]

72. I believe that that took her out of the PS sytem due to Evolution...

being taught in the curriculum. She has been going back and forth from PS to Private, for the past few years. I have no idea what school she WAS in.
Soon she'll be in Montana.

[Sgent]

74. Your brother needs to contact an attorney -- now

Even though he gave up his parental rights, he still has more court standing to file for an injunction than most people (other than CPS).

At 17, she should be able to file for her own emancipation, but it may take a judicial order and help from your brother.

Good luck.

[Iniquitous Bunny]

76. That's awful.

If she can get out of this once she turns 18, I hope she has some support from your family. It sounds like her adoptive parents won't be there.

[maveric]

77. They've threatened to disown and disinherit her unless she follows suit.

Its such a shame that people can be so closed minded over the teaching of evolution.
I personally dont think that its a hands-down "religous" issues, than more of a "control" issue.

[pnwmom]

79. The father's unemployed, the mother's a nurse, doesn't sound like

an inheritance should be a big issue.

It's the emotional risk that she would be taking, if she is attached to these people. There probably would be a complete rift now, but if these people are decent people (I know, unlikely), then eventually they would "see the light." From everything you've said, and given that she has a whole additional extended family to support her, I think she should be encouraged to take the risk.

[eppur_se_muova]

80. Disown and disinherit might be a GOOD thing. Then they have no hold...

left over her. It's a zap gun -- only fires once, then it's no threat.

[pnwmom]

78. Legal Services for Children will provide free legal help in Bay area

or will recommend services if you live outside of the area.

http://www.lsc-sf.org/web/index.html

"Legal Services for Children (LSC) was founded in 1975 as one of the first non-profit law firms in the country dedicated to advancing the rights of youth by providing direct legal representation and social work services.
LSC's goal is to ensure all children in the San Francisco Bay Area have an opportunity to be raised in a safe environment with equal access ot a meaningful education and the services they need to become healthy and productive young adults.

Through the team approach, LSC endeavors to empower clients and actively involve them in critical decisions about their lives. Our holistic services are provided to children and youth in cases that include legal guardianship, dependency, school discipline, immigration, and emancipation."


From the LSC website http://www.lsc-sf.org/web/need_parents.html

"Your options when you cannot live with your parents

Friend or Relative's Home:
You might choose to live with an adult friend or relative without any court permission. You DO NOT need court permission to live with a friend or relative under many circumstances.

What to Do:
The Caregiver's Authorization Affidavit law allows your adult caretaker to enroll you in school. If s/he is a relative, s/he may also consent to medical care for you. No parental signature required!


Legal Guardianship:
You might choose to move into the home of an adult (family friend or relative), and that adult might be appointed your guardian. This guardian would act as your parent.

What to Do:
You need an adult relative or friend who will agree to provide you with a home. This must be approved by the court. Click here for more information about Legal Guardianship."

[Tsiyu]

83. Great resources here from everyone

I would add that most states allow emancipation earlier than 18.

Don't know if it would help to get a caseworker started on this by reporting them? It could go nowhere, but it also might start a paper trail on this mother.

Kid needs to record bizarre things the mother says if she can. Also your brother might be able to do this if state law allows recordings by one party. Merely refusing to believe Creation Myth does not a juvenile delinquent make.

She really needs an advocate, and perhaps your brother could go before a judge in the county where she lives and present his case. Perhaps he could get a restraining order.

Just talking off the top of my head, but I've known kids who were emancipated at 16 for good cause. Hers sure sounds like one to me. And now I'll go check up on the other responses. Good luck to the poor dear and to your brother.

Edited for a relatively minor problem

[MissB]

84. She is 17? The adoptive parents don't have a snowball's chance

in the proverbial hell of getting her to conform to their way of life. If she survives the next year, she'll make it fine.

I hope you are able to communicate (through your son) that she has options and that your family is there for her. Just that knowledge may be enough to tide her over for the year.

[jazzjunkysue]

85. Right. It's just more abandonment. She'll walk, and the law's with her.

This will only prove to this teen not to trust fundies.

Let's hope she can find her own way to start her life on her own. Nursing school or something.

[Initech]

87. Xtianity is an evil in this country that must be stopped.

[pnwmom]

88. Oh, please, not this again. n/t

[Initech]

89. I have no problems with Christianity...

You know, people who actually follow what Christ said, but the people who havent read the Bible past Deuteronomy and claim to be Christians... well, then we have a problem.

[pnwmom]

90. Agreed. I think the bigger problem is a sick form of narcissism

that seems to cut across all religions and cultures and affects atheists as well. Narcissistic parents who can't acknowledge the child's existence as a truly separate person. Parents who think they have the right to try to turn their children into copies of themselves.

[KPalicz]

93. .

Exactly. Its not really a Christian problem (though many of these camps are indeed run by fundamentalists) but just a sign of how little parents care for the rights or dignity of their children. The horrors of what goes on in these camps are shocking. So much abuse, brain washing, many kids have died in these programs but they keep getting swept under the rug.

These places need to be shut down once and for all.

[Ladyhawk]

91. I just attended a workshop for those who have left their faith.

It was absolutely wonderful. I gained a lot of insights and hope I can find the time to pursue the things I learned. The workshop was conducted by Dr. Marlene Winell, author of Leaving the Fold. The book is currently out-of-print, but I would be willing to give one of my copies to this youngster. It is SO validating. She'll have to hide it from the parents, of course. ;)

The workshop was held here in California. When the girl hits 18, maybe she could find a way to attend one. It was a great experience for me!

[Rocknrule]

92. This place sounds like the Sunlight Home in "The Talisman"