Memos Reveal War Crimes Warnings!!!! IMPORTANT!

[AGENDA21]

May 17 - The White House's top lawyer warned more than two years ago that U.S. officials could be prosecuted for "war crimes" as a result of new and unorthodox measures used by the Bush administration in the war on terrorism, according to an internal White House memo and interviews with participants in the debate over the issue.

The concern about possible future prosecution for war crimes—and that it might even apply to Bush adminstration officials themselves— is contained in a crucial portion of an internal January 25, 2002, memo by White House counsel Alberto Gonzales obtained by NEWSWEEK. It urges President George Bush declare the war in Afghanistan, including the detention of Taliban and Al Qaeda fighters, exempt from the provisions of the Geneva Convention.

In the memo, the White House lawyer focused on a little known 1996 law passed by Congress, known as the War Crimes Act, that banned any Americans from committing war crimes—defined in part as "grave breaches" of the Geneva Conventions. Noting that the law applies to "U.S. officials" and that punishments for violators "include the death penalty," Gonzales told Bush that "it was difficult to predict with confidence" how Justice Department prosecutors might apply the law in the future. This was especially the case given that some of the language in the Geneva Conventions—such as that outlawing "outrages upon personal dignity" and "inhuman treatment" of prisoners—was "undefined."

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4999734/

[ewagner]

1. Holy Cow!!!

Even Gonzo said they were committing war crimes?

This is big time stuff....its on MSNBC but I wonder if it will go any further?

[cantstandbush]

2. Can we get these documents talked about in the press?

i know, it's a dumb question.

[AGENDA21]

3. No idea....If there was a free media then there wouldnt be a

need to ask.

[havocmom]

8. A LOT of LTTE will get people asking about them

and THAT seems to be the only way to get the press to acknowledge anything, when they are confronted with questions by the public.

We have to BE the media and the press to get those arms of politics up off their collective duffs and moving on anything.

Time to fire off a lotta letters again, folks. ;)

[wordpix2]

13. what is LTTE?

[havocmom]

16. LTTE = Letter To The Editor

It is a very good way to get your neighbors curious about issues
Main Stream Media dismisses or ignores ;)

And it just plain feels GOOD to get you voice heard! Very empowering. When one person takes the time to write, it goes a long way to encourage others to lend their voices too. So many feel a vague sense of unease or anger but have no way to validate their own opinions. MSM parrots neocon talking points that dissent some how equals helping terrorism; that exercising your right to free speech is Un-American!

Reading the words of concerned neighbors can free a lot of people from the erroneous notion that they are somehow out of touch with the mainstream. When the policies and diversions of the radically right wing fanatics are most of what gets played in Main Stream Media, they get exposure which is disproportionate to their actual numbers. THEY ARE NOT THE MAJORITY! If the folks next door and down the street only hear the talking points of the Far Right, they tend to think that is the voice of America and they are the minority. The opposite is true!

Moderates and liberals outnumber the screaming Right Wing! We have just been shut out of the national dialog by the corporations who now control most media and newspapers.

Fight back! Blog, share links and resources with others, and WRITE LETTERS TO THE EDITOR on issues which are important to you. Help get the word out on stories which corporate media doesn't want people to know about! Help get the chatter in your local papers and around the water coolers on the REAL issues!

Be a part of the alternative to the current PRAVDA-style news reporting going on in America today! Help get the truth out and watch the snowball effect.

Every time one of us gets a LTTE published, thousands of Americans are nodding in agreement as they read them! Some of those folks will be inspired to write too. And so it goes...

Be the MEDIA. Democracy is NOT a spectator sport!

[Clark2008]

23. Minor point: Please call them the Corporate Media

There's nothing mainstream about ignoring war crimes in lieu of missing blonde women.

:hi:

[havocmom]

30. I often do but when trying to help people who might not be familiar

with our lingo, I use the terms most widely understood. There is a point in communicating with your target audience. Since the question to me was what is LTTE, I wanted to be clear. One step at a time ;)

Teaching and learning = success in our endeavors. Expecting all to understand our inside phrases will not always help. Some people will be turned off right off the bat if they perceive too much animosity in the way we say things. Little steps to bring them around can be more useful. Little steps. That's why I spelled out what MSM stands for. We need to reach the people who are not up with all the terms and history. We need to reach people gently

And I will speak as I see fit for specific occassions.

:hi:

[ItsTheMediaStupid]

35. I appreciate the difference

However, I prefer Corporate Weasel Media, harsh as it may sound.

[Norquist Nemesis]

4. Wish I had better memory recall...The Senate 'debated'

about giving amnesty/protection to (specifically) Executive Branch officials. It seems like it was about the same time Abu Graib had come out, but was still at the stage of "a few bad apples."

I was stunned at the time that the Cons were even bringing it up as an amendment to part of a bill. And damned if I can remember which bill. :banghead:

[KoKo]

5. This article is from May 19, 2004 from "Blue Dress" Isikoff..

The article never went anywhere. I wonder if it was some sort of disinformation sent to "Spiky Isikoff" (the Monica reporter who was a tool of the Clinton haters.)

If it didn't go anywhere when he published it in an online "exclusive" then I wonder why. :shrug:


WEB EXCLUSIVE
By Michael Isikoff
Newsweek
Updated: 9:14 a.m. ET May 19, 2004

May 17 - The White House's top lawyer warned more than two years ago that U.S. officials could be prosecuted for "war crimes" as a result of new and unorthodox measures used by the Bush administration in the war on terrorism, according to an internal White House memo and interviews with participants in the debate over the issue.

The concern about possible future .....

[Fiendish Thingy]

21. this isn't news it's almost 2 years old, unless...

the addendum (internet only) segment is new?

[flamin lib]

6. K&R

[mattclearing]

7. More evidence that the Aspens have turned.

The media just keeps piling on now.

[SnowGoose]

9. Kicked & Recommended

A first step in bringing this to wide public attention is to make ALL the DU'ers aware of it.

And even the trolls ~ because ideas spread.

[AGENDA21]

10. I agree with ya.

[Cults4Bush]

11. War Crimes! and the world needs to try him because we cant be

trusted to do it on our own.

[htuttle]

14. They're liable for these crimes long after they leave office

There is no statue of limitations on war crimes.

They hauled Pinochet back into court decades after he left power. The same might happen to Dick and Bush.

[wordpix2]

12. this is why * made Gonzo head of Justice Dept., so he wouldn't try *cabal

for war crimes

snip:
Noting that the law applies to "U.S. officials" and that punishments for violators "include the death penalty," Gonzales told Bush that "it was difficult to predict with confidence" how Justice Department prosecutors might apply the law in the future. This was especially the case given that some of the language in the Geneva Conventions—such as that outlawing "outrages upon personal dignity" and "inhuman treatment" of prisoners—was "undefined."

[WiseButAngrySara]

15. K & R. Of course they are guilty of war crimes. n/t

[me b zola]

17. Proof that the cabal KNEW that they were committing war crimes!!!

May justice come sooner rather than later!

[alfredo]

18. Send this article to everyone.

Become the media. If enough of us know it, a good percentage will press the media to report on it. The fewer people who know, the easier it is to keep a lid on this.

[savemefromdumbya]

Kicked

:kick:

[savemefromdumbya]

19. Kicked

:kick:

[Independent_Liberal]

20. Kick!

[babsbunny]

22. Send To KO!

[Disturbed]

25. Rumsfailed Admitted to Violating Geneva Convention

Rumsfailed Admitted to Violating Geneva Convention

Rumsfailed admitted in public on TV that when CIA Director Tenet requested that an Iraqi prisoner be sent to a secret Afghan/US Prison that Rumsfailed did so. After four months a DOD Attorney stated that this was an illegal act. Rumsfailed then ordered that this prisoner be sent back to Abu Graihib but the prisoner was purposefully not listed at that location, also an illegal act. Rumsfeld also admitted to signing orders for tougher interogation methods which violated the Geneva Conventions.

Rumfailed has commited at least three violations of the Geneva Convention thereby also violations of The Constitution of the USA. Recently it has been found out that even more detainees were "ghost detainees". The fact that Rumsfailed and Tenet have not been charged speaks volumes. If Congress wishes to garner any respect they should move forward with Rep. Rangle's Impeachment Declaration of Rumsfailed and also prosecute Ex. CIA Tenet.

The US, Govt., Congress, and the Justice Dept no longer abide by the Geneva Convention or the Constitution of the USA.

[ET Awful]

24. They may be undefined, but I can tell you right now that there isn't a

legitimate court on the planet that would look at the Abu Ghraib photos and NOT call them "outrages upon personal dignity." I mean, no matter what your culture, being forced into a naked human pyramid or being covered with feces kind of qualifies.

[savemefromdumbya]

26. You would think other countries would put sanctions on us?

can you imagine if China cut us off and all the foreign investors pulled out?

[savemefromdumbya]

27. You would think other countries would put sanctions on us?

can you imagine if China cut us off and all the foreign investors pulled out?

[greiner3]

28. Does this mean I can make citizens arrests on the war pigs? n/t

[Disturbed]

29. What is a war crime?

What is a war crime?
By Tarik Kafala
BBC News Online


Article 147 of the Fourth Geneva Convention defines war crimes as: "Willful killing, torture or inhuman treatment, including... willfully causing great suffering or serious injury to body or health, unlawful deportation or transfer or unlawful confinement of a protected person, compelling a protected person to serve in the forces of a hostile power, or willfully depriving a protected person of the rights of fair and regular trial, ...taking of hostages and extensive destruction and appropriation of property, not justified by military necessity and carried out unlawfully and wantonly."


This, international lawyers say, is the basic definition of war crimes.

The statutes of The Hague tribunal say the court has the right to try suspects alleged to have violated the laws or customs of war in the former Yugoslavia since 1992. Examples of such violations are given in article 3:

* Wanton destruction of cities, towns or villages, or devastation not justified by military necessity
* Attack, or bombardment, by whatever means, of undefended towns, villages, dwellings, or buildings
* Seizure of, destruction or willful damage done to institutions dedicated to religion, charity and education, the arts and sciences, historic monuments and works of art and science
* Plunder of public or private property.

The tribunal defines crime against humanity as crimes committed in armed conflict but directed against a civilian population. Again a list of examples is given in article 5:

* Murder
* Extermination
* Enslavement
* Deportation
* Imprisonment
* Torture
* Rape
* Persecutions on political, racial and religious grounds.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/1420133.stm

[centristo]

31. what exactly is the difference between committing

"grave breeches of the Geneva Convention" and declaring those actions to be "exempt from the provisions of the Geneva Convention."

Oh, that's right, there is no difference. It's just the administration choosing not to follow international law.

IMPEACH!!

[lonestarnot]

33. Second.

[madmark]

32. its more basis for impeachment; win the house and senate

[Higans]

34. Screw it, lets linch the bastard.

[LuckyTheDog]

36. Two-year-old story, though

I am glad to see that link. But the IP needs to know that the story is from 2004.

[Trevelyan]

37. AOL had a front page story on the dog handler at Gitmo being sentenced to

a paltry 6 months for unspeakable crimes. The poll stated that 51% of responders today thought torture was good and about 30% of the messageboard posts were really sick cheering on of torture but on the other hand there were many, many excellent defenses of the rule of law and counters to the freeper talking points.

"The fact is that this is a distraction issue from what is really going on in Abu Ghraib. Here is a soldier who is accused of "tormenting" prisoners with a dog. The fact is that we have been subjecting these people, most of which are held indefinitely without trial and without any legitimate evidence--which could in fact make them innocent civilians that we are theoretically there to protect--to absolute torture because they haven't "signed" the Geneva convention.

The Geneva convention that our soldiers haven't signed. The Geneva convention which protects all of humanity.The reason this is being blown out of proportion is to distract the people from the FACT that our soldiers are beating these people, in many instances to death, they're starving these people, placing them nude in freezing conditions, sicking dogs on their genitals and there have been more than one incident reported by the ACLU and International Committee of Red Cross of sodomizing 6-7 year old children in front of their parents. Not to mention sexual abuse amongst the adults as well. But I guess those children didn't sign the Geneva convention.

Anybody guilty of torturing another human being is far worse than a terrorist. Whether their skin is white or brown, they are guilty of a war crime and should be punished to the full extent of international law, along with our Commander and Cheif Executive who oversees and condones this behavior."

A response to this said she doubted it was happening and if so, cheered the soldiers on. Children!! Some of the rw talking points are that the "ragheads" children would grow up to be terrorists so it is better to kill them now. I have started each post answering this racism that "Jesus was a raghead, look at the paintings based on historical fact of the dress in Jesus' time"

[Sydnie]

38. No wonder he didn't want to join the world court

Ignorant son of an asshole!

[Rose Siding]

39. Even YOO was more concerned about legality than the rest of the cabal

for nefarious purposes, to be sure, but still-

snip>
One lawyer involved in the interagency debates over the Geneva Conventions issue recalled a meeting in early 2002 in which participants challenged Yoo, a primary architect of the administration's legal strategy, when he raised the possibility of Justice Department war crimes prosecutions unless there was a clear presidential direction proclaiming the Geneva Conventions did not apply to the war in Afghanistan. The concern seemed misplaced, Yoo was told, given that loyal Bush appointees were in charge of the Justice Department.

[fooj]

40. Treasonous, rat bastards...

may they burn in hell for an eternity.

Peace.

[Voltaire99]

41. Don't lose any sleep over this one

No half of the duopoly will be prosecuting its siamese twin for war crimes.

It would be nice to see, but both parties are in the imperialism business together.

[A Simple Game]

44. I'm afraid I have to agree with you. n/t

[Faryn Balyncd]

42. K&R

kicked

[Senator]

43. War Crimes are "above our pay grade" which is why...

...we must resolve to bind anyone suspected of them over to The Hague for International prosecution. (Yes, really.)

Impeachment will only be the first step toward Redemption of Our National Soul.

--
www.january6th.org

[enough]

45. morning k&r

[mmonk]

46. No honor.

Undoing the legacy of my father and his fellow soldiers in their fight against Nazi Germany and what became of how to deal with countries that behave in this manner. It's what makes my blood boil when the republicans compare what the US is doing now to WW II. There is no decency or humanity in the republican party and their enablers in war crimes in the democratic party.