How can so many veterans back Bush*

[Brewman_Jax]

when his time of service is in question. Being a veteran myself, I find that most offensive. :grr: Especially during time of conflict when the average individual would be in prison, this scumbag is partying and no one has called him on it. When they do, it's "past history."

[MADem]

1. I know a load of military retirees and vets

And maybe I hang around with a good class of people, but I don't know a single one who supports him. A few did on the first go-round, but he lost them by '04....

[physioex]

2. Sorry to say I have to opposite experience...

I work around a bunch that sit around watching Faux News. I don't discuss politics with them, but I would hope things are sinking in......

[LostinVA]

11. My BIL -- broken back in the army, lost benefits because of Bush

LOVES him. I mean... Junior can do no wrong.

[Brewman_Jax]

14. I know your pain

:(

[LostinVA]

23. It greatly puzzles me -- he's a smart guy, too

[Brewman_Jax]

24. And your BIL has suffered so much

and can still, with a straight face, back Bush*. Agreed, that's sad. :(

[LostinVA]

26. Yup -- 37, can't run, can't pick up more than 25-30 pounds

can't ride his Hog anymore... and, as evidenced this past Fall, can't walk more than about a flat mile without having to rest.

But hey -- Kerry the bona fide war hero SUCKED. A traitor to the USA.

[Brewman_Jax]

4. The fact that

they backed him in 2000 makes me wonder why. Have they no sense of integrity? :shrug:

[physioex]

19. I hear ya....

Maybe its not him as much as the bill of goods they were sold that liberals don't support the military...

[Brewman_Jax]

25. Interesting thought

esp. since my 2 oldest friends from college, who are vets, are as liberal as I.

[Double T]

3. WH creates the perception that military and veterans back bush.......

reality is probably a lot different.

[Brewman_Jax]

6. That's a good point

but the military have to follow because he's Commander-in-Chief; veterans can voice opposition.

[babylonsister]

5. How could his admin (Rove) swiftboat Kerry and get away with

it? The term 'sheeple' is apt.

[Brewman_Jax]

9. And they got away with it in 2000

n/t

[Itchinjim]

7. I work with a couple of Viet Nam vets...

who absolutely loathe Bush. My late father, a Korean war vet, his late brother, and his still living brothers, vets all, not only despise(d) Bush, but republicans in general.

[Brewman_Jax]

10. I know the feeling

and my father is a vet that votes republican. He has the nerve to complain how they've screwed him, but he didn't vote for Kerry because "the dummycrats are gonna take his guns." He complains that his healthcare premiums keep going up. I ask him, "why are you whining? That's what you voted for. I guess you can use your bullets to pay that off."

No pity. :nopity:

[mwb970]

18. Is your father worried about warrantless physical searches?

And just what makes him think that the Bush regime doesn't want to take his guns?

[Brewman_Jax]

21. I don't think he is

but he's so brain-scrubbed that he's sure they wouldn't take his guns...but they'll take everything else. :P

[Quiet_Dem_Mom]

28. My Dad was a Navy ordinance guy on a carrier during VW, hated Bush too.

His oft-used quote about Bush: He is the sorriest son-of-a-bitch that ever took a sh*t in the White House. He always hated Bush, but I think the loathing started the minute troops were sent to Iraq. Dad was never a fan of the Republicans, which is surprising since he's a Georgia-country boy.

QDM

[Squatch]

8. I am a veteran, my brothers are vets

and we do not back Bush. Additionally, I currently work with the military in a major command. I would estimate that, based upon my extremely rigorous scientific data mining over coffee and donuts, only roughly 1/3 of the folks I work with are still holding true to Bush. Another 1/3 has opinions either way, another 1/6 have strong opinions against Bush, and another 1/6 have strong opinions and are not afraid to share them.

I think that adds up to 100%

[Brewman_Jax]

12. One-third voted for him

and have they started complaining about him yet, or are their brains turned off?

[Jane Austin]

13. I think maybe the die-hards just don't want to believe that the country

they put their whole lives and health on the line for, the country they love and fought for, the country they believe in more than anything else, that that country could produce and push to the top the complete fraud who is there now.

Most people really, really want to believe the best about their country, and to do that, you can't let it creep into your consciousness that your elected leaders are frauds, and that an awful lot of your countrymen were just flat fooled by him.

That's really hard to swallow; for some it's easier to just deny it and hope for the best.

[Brewman_Jax]

15. I figured for that reason

they wouldn't vote for him, but I see that I'm wrong. :(

[Minnesota Libra]

16. You know, you might be on to something here - why couldn't we.........

.....somehow poll veterans in a somewhat secretive manner and publish for fundies who are always waving their flags on how many agree and disagree with the idiot boy?? I know veterans and their families email addresses and where they visit on the web are all constantly monitored but it could still be done without many ill affects to the soldiers or their families.

Some one could post a simply question on a web site or in a blog, something to the affect of "Do you agree with President Bush's policies?" That would be pretty benign. The choices could be something like, 1) yes, totally agree, 2) somewhat agree, 3) no sure if I agree, 4) somewhat disagree, 5) totally disagree.

Answers could be sent to family members in emails in the form of a simple number of 1 - 5 that would make it look like they were talking about something totally different. If this was handled properly it could be done right under the fundies noses and they would never know what was going on.

Then, when some of this info was gathered it could be made public to inform the fundies and Democrats alike as to what soldiers REALLY THINK.

Please, don't tell me it couldn't be done. Precautions might have to be taken but it could indeed be done.

Just something to think about.

[theHandpuppet]

17. Dems let the Bushreich frame the debate

Take for instance, this example in a speech by Cheney this week:

"At times you may wonder if your fellow citizens truly realize the extent of your achievements," Cheney said to the about 3,000 troops and family members gathered in a chilly hangar. "I want you to know that Americans do realize it and we do not take our military for granted."

Not-so-subtle message: Anyone who's against this war doesn't support the troops. Anyone who criticizes the war is criticizing not BushCo, but the troops. Supporting/appreciating the troops means supporting Bush and his war.

Yes, it's an old tactic to equate dissent with lack of patriotism. Fascist and totalitarian regimes use it all the time, whereas in true democracies it is the duty of every citizen to question. Compare these two quotes and apply them to the current political climate here:

"Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger." -- Hermann Goering at the Nuremberg trials

And this one...

“Dissent is the highest form of patriotism” -- Thomas Jefferson

Now tell me who sounds more like Dick Cheney.

[izzybeans]

20. I know of only one veteran in my circle of acquaintances who

back Bush at all, and he's too embarrassed know to talk about it. He just asks that we drink to the future.

[pitohui]

22. because they have too much investment in not being wrong

even a veteran is a human being like anybody else, some have a "right man" personality such that they can never be wrong so they can never admit that anyone fooled them and esp. not a leader, others simply have given too much (being away from family, maybe losing job or business, maybe losing a limb, etc.) to admit it was all for increasing the value of cheney's halliburton share options

how could you sleep at night without going mad if you thought you'd lost say, an eye, or your children were now being raised by another man living w. your former wife, and all so that rich men could get richer

you couldn't and not do something abt it

and so it is easier to deny what you have sacrified and why

my theory anyway

it's based on sales, get the mark to be invested in saying "yes," get him to invest his own time and suddenly he persuades himself

[LostinVA]

27. I think that is a very good theory, personally

[Kansas Wyatt]

29. Did the White House ever release the numbers from the 2004 Election?

I seem to have missed the constant parroting of how the troops really love Bush, like the Corporate Republican MSM always portrays.

I just know that BushCo would want the public to know that "delicious" nugget of information, since they are always parading the troops out to show the public that the military supports Bush.