Reid calls for path to citizenship for undocumented, Dobbs to implode

[RB TexLa]

The Neo-Whigs will be going ballistic.

Give'm hell!

:popcorn:



http://www.wreg.com/Global/story.asp?S=4670239&nav=menu93_2

[Viva_La_Revolution]

1. What's your opinion?

Should we make them criminals? They are already here illegally, but the current system isn't working.

I'm torn on the whole issue. I know they are coming here for a better life, like some of my ancestors did. However, my family did it legally. My job skills now earn me $2-4 dollars less an hour, because they can get an illegal to do it for minimum wage. My roommate is earning $4-6 per hour less than he did just a few years ago, same work (construction).

What do we do about this?

[RB TexLa]

2. They are here and working

I say we find a way to let them become citizens or obtain legal status. Many who don't want to become citizens want to make enough money to buy some land in Mexico for farming (and we all know when they mention "illegals" they are talking about Mexican citizens). There have always been industries who's labor cost is effected by immigration, and every group of immigrants that have come here have received the "they're taking our jobs" and the rich only want them here for their "cheap labor." Same toward freed slaves (different situation but somewhat same reactions), to the Irish, the Italians, and now Mexico and Caribbean. But after getting here and getting past the xenophobia, they were brought into the labor movement and advanced economically. It's not going to happen overnight but this is the country that provides opportunity to the huddled masses, it has since it's inception. I really don't want to be part of the generation that puts the light out on that beacon.

More trade with and development in Mexico by US companies can and will in the future slow down how many people want to risk being loaded into 140 degree trucks to get in the the US, and it's something we can do to help with that. And not all immigrants from Europe came her legally, not all of mine did.

[msgadget]

3. Good, honest question

and the way politicians should examine the issue. Of course workers encouraged to come here should not be vilified but they are not, as the president and immigrant activists say, 'doing work Americans won't do'. That's just not true now and I don't know if it ever was.

When I bought my house there was a modest listing of landscapers in the yellow pages but now there seem to be more landscapers than lawns and ALL of them use illegal labor. Who wins? Not the guy who's got to let go of his legal employees and cut his fees to compete. 'Bye, 'bye living wage for the former worker, and soon 'bye, 'bye well earned comfortable self-employement for him. And, what citizen doesn't do construction, masonry, finish carpentry, tile work, restaurant work OR farm work. There were groups of migrant workers being taken advantage of before illegal immigration pushed even them out of their miserable jobs.

We need HONEST debates that exclude the rhetoric and heart-wrenching stories of illegals being taken advantage of and employers not being able to find American workers. I realize that if every illegal worker were to vanish back to their home lands the cost of employing American workers at liveable wages would drive up the price of everything immediately. But, if this administration truly believes in the free market as much as it says it does, it will trust an untainted one to meet the challenge.

Finally, if there really was such great compassion for illegal immigrants all conversations would include honoring them with the kind of pay we used to earn.

[rucky]

4. Businesses who hire illegals:

Sponsor them for a visa, or pay their way home.

Just a thought.

[flordehinojos]

5. while you are making $2to$4 less an hour and your roommate is making

$4to$6 less an hour--the senate is making many, many,many more dollars an hour/they give themselves a hefty increase each year, their health insurance is the golden cadillac plan of health insurances, they kiss the corporations butt holes who pay for their elections campaigns so why are you all going after the illegal immigrants--and not demanding that the congress curb itself and the corporations that feed them? ... maybe then we might all have a leg to stand on to demand whatever against the illegal immigrants.

[Disturbed]

7. Doesn't that give immigrants even more incentive to..

get into the US without obtaining legal means?

[msgadget]

12. Requiring a living wage isn't 'going after' illegal immigrants

We need to live HERE and to pay bills incurred HERE. We are also required to respect the law here, just as they are in their home countries. In past threads I and others have said the businesses who hire illegals should be penalized but gov't officials who try are not supported in their efforts. So, yes, let's make them all citizens who deserve a good, liveable wage here in the US so they can join us in raising the wage base.

[SoCalDem]

6. As long as these people are MEXICAN citizens, and to begin with

The US government needs to get Mexico to pay "reparations/support/whatever" to cover the estimated costs of having people immigrate without the proper paperwork. We send AID to Mexico, and states that can PROVE they have an adverse consequence, should present a quarterly "bill" to the US government, be reimbursed..and then Mexico should pick up the cossts..

They might actually find it cheaper to take care of their own citizens in Mexico, and start helping them there..

Mexico is exporting their poor to US, and still accepting aid from us.. That's the starting point..

[w8liftinglady]

8. Many are felons who can't be sponsored

a felon convicted of aggravated violence of any kind can not come into the country

[Bridget Burke]

11. Source?

I'd love to hear the details.

[RB TexLa]

9. for morning crowd

:kick:

[KharmaTrain]

10. Meanwhile The Real Felons Count Their Profits

When I hear of a grower or meat processing plant owner or construction company fined millions...and repeatedly...for hiring illegal immigrants and then thrown into jail...then someone will be taking this issue seriously. When this regime takes one of its campaign contributors and makes them pay for each and every illegal hires they made and make the penalty severe...then we'll see some seriousness.

The issue of the Mexican border is so clouded in racism, economic class warefare and exploitation, there's really no true clear perspective of what's happening here.

[msgadget]

13. ...

:applause: America was built on the back of cheap, exploited labor so this isn't a trend that can be solved with fake compassionate band-aid legislation. When industry has more influence than voters and consumers the power base serves to protect THEM.

Edit: typed too fast

[KharmaTrain]

15. When Unions Finally Become Unions Again

This is a broad assessment, but we agree that it is cheap labor that has been the catalyst of this society for generations and one that has only enjoy short periods of "balance" when the worker and the one who profits from their work existed in a mutually beneficial situation. 100 years ago, my grandfather fought the conditions in the meat packing plants facing those "slimy immigrants" who were viewed with a similar disdain by "real Amuricans" then as they are by the "patriots" now. Things are viewed on the religious or racial level since it's easier to polarize people...as opposed to economic where it's not as clear-cut.

The other night, PBS showed a special on Caesar Chavez and the UFW...it was bittersweet as it showed what good things happened when people were united to improve working conditions. It was sad to see how all that hard work was undermined not just by the growers, but by the union itself and how things are worse today for those workers than it was in the 60's.

Cheers...

[boot@9]

14. you are exactly correct

go after the employers but no one has the courage to do so.