Organic beef vs. "All Natural" "Certified Angus"--what's the diff?

[smoogatz]

So, I'm at my local Festival Superdupermegamarket today, and I'm looking for organic beef for a little stir-fry. Used to be they carried certified organic beef, so I'm a bit tweaked when I see that it's gone, and in its place is something called "Certified Angus," with a sticker on it that says, ambiguously, "All Natural." Not being one to shrink from minor confrontations, I collar the meat manager.

"What happened to the organic beef?" I say. "What's this 'all natural' crap?"
"Same thing," says meat guy, looking at me like I might be a little crazy. "No hormones, no antibiotics."
"What do they feed them?" I say.
"All vegetarian."
As in not other cows, I guess. No soylent green. "If it's the same," I say, "how come it doesn't say 'organic' on the package?"
"We ran out of stickers," the guy says.

And that, of course, is when I know he's completely talking out his bunghole. ("Ran out of stickers," I say. "Right.") But is he still more-or-less correct? Is meat that's fed only a vegetarian diet, given no antibiotics and no hormones essentially the same as organic meat? I'd be grateful for your response. I'll take my answer off the air.

[WhiteTara]

1. organic is certified to have no

chemicals, gmos, hormones, antibiotics. Angus is a breed of cattle and all natural means whatever the ad agency wants it to mean.

[lindisfarne]

20. "natural" and "organic" are not interchangeable

7. Do the terms "natural" and "organic" mean the same thing?

No. According to the USDA, the terms "natural" and "organic" are not interchangeable. Only food labeled "organic" meets USDA's national organic standards. While other claims, such as "natural" "free-range," and "hormone-free," can still appear on food labels these terms should not be confused with "organic."
http://www.smallplanetfoods.com/cfarm/organic/default.asp

Also:
http://ats.agr.gc.ca/us/4100_e.htm

Regulations and Requirements
The term "Natural" in reference to meat products is one of the loosest with regards to labeling practices and requirements. The term does not have the same strict interpretations as "organic". While it may not be as strong as an organic certification, "Natural" can add value if advertised properly because of the growing popularity of its product attributes.

"Natural" Meat
All fresh meat in the USA qualifies as "Natural" under current USDA definitions. However, all products claiming to be "Natural" should be accompanied by a brief statement which explains what is meant by the term "Natural".

Products labelled "Natural" cannot contain any artificial flavour or flavouring, colouring ingredient, chemical preservative, or any other artificial or synthetic ingredient; and the product and its ingredients are not more than minimally processed (ie. ground, frozen or smoked).

Various claims as to what makes a product "Natural" can be made on a label, but label claims are regulated by the FDA and must be verifiable should a challenge arise.

[WhiteTara]

21. yep, that's what I said

natural is whatever the ad company says it is. Organic is certified...at least for now.

[400Years]

2. I think organic refers also to

being fed organic feed

[WhiteTara]

22. yes it does.

It is a very long certification process and most organic farmsers are very proud of that certificate.

[JuniperLea]

3. Angus is a bovine breed

I'm sure there are legal differences between "all natural" and "organic". Those terms are highly regulated like "light/lite"... there have to be certain percentages of certain ingredients to call something mayonnaise; otherwise, it can only be a sandwich spread.

There should be an FDA website with food labeling definitions...




Q: What guidance does the FDA have for Natural-Organic?


N: The term "natural" has not been defined in FDA's law (the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act) or in FDA's regulations.

However, USDA's Agricultural Marketing Service, who oversees the National Organic Program, published the final rule on national organic standards on December 27, 2000. Implementation of the program began in April 2001. A press release on these standards can be found at: http://www.usda.gov/news/releases/2000/12/0425.htm

Answers to Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ's) about the National Organic Program (NOP) can be found at: http://www.ams.usda.gov/nop/Q&A.html

http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~dms/qa-ind7f.html

[Dogmudgeon]

4. The term "Organic" is usually regulated by the state you're in

"Organic" usually means "no artificial fertilizers or pesticides", which doesn't apply to critters. I am not sure whether the states have tackled the issue of "organic meat", since the same overall social movement that gave us "Organic" as a Good Word also eschews the consumption of meat.

"Free Range" meats are usually of high quality, as is most Kosher and Halal (Islam's version of koshruth) meat. I think that all three must be fed plant-based food only; although pork, obviously, can't be either Kosher or Halal. But even the ordinary stuff isn't all that bad these days, unless you're a purist or a vegetarian. And since the tag "Organic" or "Free Range" (etc.) can double or triple the price of the food, misuse of it is a form of fraud.

--p!

[NaturalHigh]

5. Some places just like to advertise that it is "Angus" beef.

Some people think that Angus beef is better because Angus cattle mature more quickly than other breeds and meat from their carcasses is thought to be more tender. I personally don't think that is the case, but it makes a great advertising gimmick.

[TX-RAT]

8. Don't know about more tender?

But i do know Angus cows have less trouble delivering than any other breed i'm familiar with. And they are a small breed of cattle.

[liontamer]

6. to be officially certified organic

the ground itself has to be free from petrochemical residue. So even if the farmer doesn't use any pesticides unless they pay for testing and can prove that their ground is organic(which means it must have been free of petrochemical use for years) s/he cannot use the official label "organic". With meat, the animal's feed needs to be certified organic. What you probably care the most about though is having grass fed cows who are hormone and antibiotic free. these cows may not be certified organic but are usually labeled hormone/antibiotic free and grass fed. Good luck.

[TX-RAT]

7. "All Natural" "Certified Angus"--

All that means is it's a registered or certified Angus, has nothing to do with what it's been fed. Mine are registered Brangus, much larger than Angus. As of this morning, according to my count i now have 41 brand new Brangus Calf's running around. I still have 8 cows haven't dropped yet.

[smoogatz]

16. Cool.

Never heard of a Brangus--Brahma/Angus cross?

[TX-RAT]

17. Yep, best of both breeds.

You get the size of the Brahma and the calving ability of the Angus. And in my opinion they have the cutest calves. Most have a tendency to look like Norman in the show City Slickers.

[MadHound]

9. Well, if it is a regional grocer

He made indeed have ran out of stickers. A lot of grocers that still employ butchers will have the beef trucked in as cow halves, and then whack those sides into the chops, steaks and hamburger that we are all familiar with. Somebody to have forgotten to order the stickers, and voila, no stickered beef.:shrug:

However that is really neither here nor there. All Natural, or Certified Naturally Grown is a low key movement that is starting to grow steadily in the farming world. What's happening is a response to the Certified Organic Grown that has become the national standard. Becoming and maintaining the Certified Organic status is a huuuuge burden to a lot of small farmers. Just having an inspector come out to do the certification can cost upwards of a thousand dollars. The records you have to keep are ridiculously anally retentive("and I gave Bossy a sugar cube at 4:00pm" Ooopsy, refined sugar, no longer certifiable). In addition, some of the actions or things that one does that can lead to decertification are absolutely ridiculous. For example, I'm growing shiitake mushrooms. Part of the process of growing shiitakes is to seal the spores into the hole in the log with food grade wax, like you find on cheese. Big no-no for being Certified Organic. You have to use beeswax instead. Trouble with that is the fact that beeswax contains too many carbs, and will ruin your mushroom crop. And there are many, many more examples in each category of plant or livestock raising.

So a bunch of farmers are getting together to promote an All Natural, or Certified Naturally Grown movement. It is the distillate of Certified Organic, no chemicals, no pesticides, no feeding soylent green to animals, etc. It is common sense, low cost, and not labor instensive. It allows the farmer to get back what they love to do, farming rather than filling out paperwork or paying fees.

Certified Organic was initially a great idea. But then the government, and especially the Bush administration got ahold of it and made it into this huge bureaucratic monster that seems designer to run the small organic farmers out of business via fees and increased labor costs.

So if you see All Natural, or Certified Naturally Grown, don't be alarmed. It's all good, and good for you. Oh, and you will be helping out the small farmer, rather than feeding the corporate beast.

[warrens]

10. All-Natural means

"not heavily processed." It's pretty general, but it means that nitrates and other preservatives haven't been used. But there's really no enforcement. Organic has a far more specific meaning and it can be enforced.

[nosmokes]

11. there are no standards currently for *natural*

if you truly want organic beef, your best bet is to find a local butcher that buys from a local rancher/producer. you want beef that has been pastured and grass fed. anything that advertises grain fed is almost guaranteed to have been feed-lotted, which means it has stood around in close confines with a whole bunch of other cattle ankle deep or more in their own feces being force fed antibiotics miixed in with the corn to fatten them up and ultimately tenderise the meat.

BUY LOCAL BUY ORGANIC BUY FAIR TRADE

[soothsayer]

13. Not necessarily, tho. Grass fed cattle are tough and too lean

[TX-RAT]

18. I feed mine Grapes and California Avocados

And if their real good i let them have a nice barrel of Chardonnay. Actually they eat what ever they find in the pasture, with a cotton seed supplement.

[nosmokes]

19. soothsayer, i'll have you over sometime for a ribeye

fthat's been grassfed and led a decent life before giving it's all for our sustenance and you'll be singing a different tune. it's all in finding quality producers/ranchers. luckily, here in oregon thanks to the popularity of the eat local movement we have more family farmers and ranchers now than we did 40 years ago, and the number is growing. the problem now is that there's a bottleneck at the processing stage, but that's being corrected , albeit slowly. so it's still a bit of a chore to find locally raised meats, but it's certainly doable. and there are at least 5 restaraunts that feature organic locally grown meats and veggies. and this is eugene. the number is much, much higher in portland. i rarely eat meat so it's not that big a deal. but it is nice to have the option of organic humanely raiised organic when i do.

[soothsayer]

12. Natural vs Organic

The International Association of Natural Products Producers (IANPP) defines natural ingredients as those derived from plants, inorganic minerals and animals that are not chemically altered or processed and are not artificial or synthesized. They may or may not be certified organic. The term organic applies to a plant or animal-based ingredients grown and certified under the United States Department of Agriculture (USDA) National Organic Program (NOP). To certify ingredients as organic, a manufacturer has to sign off and certify state that the product complies with regulations and standards under the NOP.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

14. If you have no idea what those terms mean,

why is it such a big deal?

[smoogatz]

15. Hey, thanks for the totally uncalled-for snark!

Sand in your vaseline, or what?