Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Sy Hersh-- Someday Bush will be hunted like Pinochet

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (01/01/06 through 01/22/2007) Donate to DU
 
TexasLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-24-06 01:29 AM
Original message
Sy Hersh-- Someday Bush will be hunted like Pinochet
Edited on Fri Mar-24-06 02:16 AM by TexasLawyer
for his crimes against humanity. Seymour Hersh gave a great address here in Houston tonight for a group called the Progressive Forum. This prediction was one of tonight's many memorable comments by Mr. Hersh. Wow, from his mouth to God's ear, I hope.

Hersh did offer, though, that W does not like to travel and tends to spend a lot of time on the ranch clearing brush and such. Therefore, the world may have a difficult time getting its collective hands on Georgie W. If crime-boy never travels abroad, he will be less snatch-prone.


Augusto Pinochet


While traveling abroad, Pinochet was arrested in October 1998 in London, England, under an international arrest warrant issued by judge Baltasar Garzón of Spain, and he was placed under house arrest: initially in the clinic where he had just undergone back surgery, and later in a luxurious rented house. The charges included 94 counts of torture of Spanish citizens, and one count of conspiracy to commit torture. The government of Chile opposed his arrest, extradition to Spain, and trial.

<snip>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augusto_Pinochet



Pinochet is visited by Margaret Thatcher
during his house arrest in London, in 1998


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
rooboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-24-06 01:38 AM
Response to Original message
1. From his lips to God's ears, may the same be for Blair and John Howard. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ladyhawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-24-06 01:42 AM
Response to Original message
2. Somehow I don't think so.
My gut tells me the best we can hope for is to get him and his cabal out of power and even that is a bit of a long shot. We can hope and do our best, but these guys have all the money and all the power. It's going to take something huge to dethrone them.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Erika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-24-06 01:45 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. Something huge is the mess he has made of the world
and our country and our economy.

People are very angry at W and his bushbots. I've never seen this anger level before at a sitting president. Not even Nixon. W has pissed off the majority of American citizens.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KansDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-24-06 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #2
56. He and his ilk NEED to be held accountable...
The Iran/Contra figures got off and here they are...back again. That's why the whole Bush crime family needs to be arrested, tried, and if found guilty, punished. If they are allowed to walk, they will be back, and we'll go through this whole thing again. They've proven that.

No more "Lee Hamiltons"
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
babsbunny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-24-06 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #2
79. Something huge?
I think if the Repubs ever want to be elected for anything ever again, they'd better go along with censure, Impeachment, etc!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-24-06 10:06 PM
Response to Reply #2
94. Shrub's still a young man
After it's sunk in just how bad he was (and I don't believe we've heard the last of the terrible things yet), he'll be hounded till the rest of his days.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-24-06 01:42 AM
Response to Original message
3. I'm picturing torches and pitchforks myself
Are there any cliffs in Texas?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TexasLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-24-06 01:49 AM
Response to Reply #3
9. oh yeah,
some craggy and very dramatic ones. They're pretty far from the ranch though. (South-Big Bend area).

But-- Crawford IS in the Texas "hill country". Guess that will have to do.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mwb970 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-24-06 09:56 AM
Response to Reply #9
52. Hm, so we should push him off a hill?
With him, that just might work!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lisa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-24-06 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #3
83. will this one do?
Edited on Fri Mar-24-06 05:14 PM by Lisa


Pic from the creek on the "ranch".
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ouabache Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-25-06 12:05 AM
Response to Reply #83
100. What's that ? The Hole Bush has dug himself into?
And of course he is still digging.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
The_Casual_Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-24-06 01:43 AM
Response to Original message
4. I doubt that jr will ever attempt things like public book signing tours
and such, that honorable men like President Carter do routinely, without any fear.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Erika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-24-06 01:52 AM
Response to Reply #4
11. W will be probably the most hated man in the U.S.
and most of the world. He has cast his own future.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
The_Casual_Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-24-06 01:55 AM
Response to Reply #11
14. He has a pretty good start on this, at least around my house.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TexasLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-24-06 02:04 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. We're an anti-bush house here, too
My children aren't allowed to swear-- EXCEPT if it's about the Bush crime family and its exploits.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
niyad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-24-06 02:33 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. my best friend, whose family is from CA and heavily democratic, told me
that until she was 12 or so, she thought nixon's first name was "thatgoddamned"
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AllieB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-24-06 07:53 AM
Response to Reply #17
35. I had the same experience
I was 5 when Nixon resigned, and I thought his first name was 'that bastard'. :o
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mwb970 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-24-06 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #17
54. Reminds me of Bill Cosby.
Quote:

"It was because of my father that from the ages of seven to fifteen, I thought that my name was Jesus Christ and my brother, Russell, thought that his name was Dammit. 'Dammit, will you stop all that noise?' And, 'Jesus Christ, sit down!' One day, I'm out playing in the rain, and my father yelled, 'Dammit will you get back in here!' I said, 'Dad, I'm Jesus Christ!'"
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-24-06 09:44 AM
Response to Reply #14
49. Around my house too. This household isn't "bush country".
:grr:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ClayZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-24-06 04:28 AM
Response to Reply #11
24. I think he already is!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Buns_of_Fire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-24-06 08:36 AM
Response to Reply #11
39. Well, he wanted a "legacy" so bad. I'd say he's got one. (n/t)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
me b zola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-24-06 11:56 PM
Response to Reply #39
99. A well earned legacy
I hope, though, that the entire cabal sits trial with him at The Hague. Justice demands no less.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-24-06 05:29 PM
Response to Reply #11
89. W IS the most hated man in the US and the rest of the world.
Peace.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
regnaD kciN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-24-06 04:31 AM
Response to Reply #4
25. "Book-signing tours"...???
Isn't it really stretching it to assume that Bush would spend his post-Presidency years writing books? Or even reading them?

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Buns_of_Fire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-24-06 08:38 AM
Response to Reply #25
40. True, and there's no market for "book-coloring tours"... (n/t)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lisa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-24-06 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #40
84. certainly not the way * does them!
Picks crayons at random, scribbles back and forth across the lines, etc.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
electropop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-24-06 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #4
93. The other problem with book tours is that
Bush can't write.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Neil Lisst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-24-06 01:43 AM
Response to Original message
5. Good call. In case you missed it, this was a week ago today ...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
liberaltrucker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-24-06 01:47 AM
Response to Original message
7. We can only pray
nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tularetom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-24-06 01:47 AM
Response to Original message
8. There are more than a few countries
in which Henry Kissinger is wanted for war crimes, so his travels abroad are severely restricted. There is no reason to believe that the current administration would not be treated the same way. After all * is persona non grata among the population in almost every country he visits right now. Do you think the people will like him better after he has been formally charged with war crimes. I doubt it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-24-06 01:51 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. Including this one. He's going to be a prisoner of his behavior
the rest of his life.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-24-06 01:54 AM
Response to Original message
12. I think once he's no longer in office, he's game even
here in the USA as long as the Republicans are also out of power. I think if a sovereign nation files a complaint with the Hague for his crimes, we could be coerced to extradite him, don't you think?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Burning Water Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-24-06 09:41 AM
Response to Reply #12
48. No, I don't
think the USA can be coerced to surrender a former President to anybody. No President could afford to let that happen.

It sounds good, alright. But it will never happen.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
eppur_se_muova Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-24-06 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #48
86. I don't think he should leave the US anyway -- other countries...
don't have a death penalty. And W has always been such a big booster of the death penalty, you know he wouldn't want to miss a chance to deal with it himself.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TexasLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-24-06 01:55 AM
Response to Original message
13. Rendition
Wouldn't it be richly ironic and perfect karma for Bush and his cronies to face an "extraordinary rendition" similar to what they have visited on their own victims?

I'm going to go to bed and dream about that one!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
faithnotgreed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-24-06 02:28 AM
Response to Original message
16. we can hope unless he is imprisoned here first
which would be much preferable

thank you
heres a big kick in support of seymour hersh
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SheWhoMustBeObeyed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-24-06 02:39 AM
Response to Original message
18. If not by us, then by the ICC
He and his entire cabinet of criminals belong in The Hague.



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-24-06 02:47 AM
Response to Original message
19. One of my dreads: when *'s behavior gets just too bizarre for even the
Edited on Fri Mar-24-06 02:50 AM by Nothing Without Hope
tame US media to cover up, he will be "assassinated" and made an overnight hero. The "assassination," of course, would be blamed on whatever country the cabal most wants to invade - Iran? - so he would be made useful one more time as an excuse for another desired windfall profits/oil grabbing war.

I don't think * will survive into his advanced old age. I think that at some point his cabal will decide he's more useful as a martyr.

The alternative: he's clearly already mentally disturbed and his ability to reason and speak coherently is eroding all the time. If he DOES survive to old age, I think he'll be protected from real punishment by a ruling of incompetence to stand trial. In this second scenario, he'd end his days still believing he's another George Washington beloved by millions.

Either way, I really can't see him EVER being truly held accountable.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Vexatious Ape Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-24-06 02:59 AM
Response to Reply #19
22. he's almost as safe as Hugo Chavez
For now. But your right, his people will rub him out--after he's been out for a while--just before he starts to open his trap. And to the idiot christian right--he'll be a martyr.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Dem2theMax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-24-06 03:28 AM
Response to Reply #19
23. "Either way, I really can't see him EVER being truly held accountable."
Maybe not in this life -- but in the next one, there will be hell to pay. :evilgrin:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TexasLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-24-06 02:53 AM
Response to Original message
20. Nuremberg quote
"To initiate a war of aggression," said the judges in the Nuremberg trial of the Nazi leadership, "is not only an international crime; it is the supreme international crime differing only from other war crimes in that it contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole." In stating this guiding principle of international law, the judges specifically rejected German arguments of the "necessity" for pre-emptive attacks against other countries.

http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?ItemID=3426

Crime Against Humanity
by John Pilger, April 10, 2003
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
enough Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-24-06 07:30 AM
Response to Reply #20
33. Thanks for that very important quote and link.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Poiuyt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-24-06 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #20
72. That quote deserves it's own thread
I hadn't heard it before, but it kind of wraps things up, doesn't it? Not that Bush gives a damn about international law.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-24-06 02:54 AM
Response to Original message
21. what if he goes to Saudi like Idi Amin and other retired tyrants?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ganja Ninja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-24-06 07:11 AM
Response to Reply #21
30. I'd like to see it.
Then I'd like to see the house of Saud fall and the beheadings start.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
timtom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-24-06 04:33 AM
Response to Original message
26. I'm praying for it!
And the rest of that s***-eating devil-worshiping cabal, as well!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Vidar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-24-06 04:52 AM
Response to Original message
27. My fondest wish.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dusty64 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-24-06 06:49 AM
Response to Original message
28. Please let it
be so and don't forget the rest of the neocon cabal.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
PDittie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-24-06 07:06 AM
Response to Original message
29. Did you see WestHoustonDem and Lisa0825?
They went...

Sorry we missed it. Sy Hersh is a prophet.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Disturbed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-24-06 07:19 AM
Response to Reply #29
31. Cheney is not mentioned?
Rumsfailed?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TexasLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-24-06 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #29
64. Shoot, I missed them
and I was looking, too. This was a much more political crowd than the one for Jared Diamond's speech last month.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Memory Container Donating Member (108 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-24-06 07:20 AM
Response to Original message
32. Doesn't Rumsfeld have an outstanding warrant in Germany?
I think I heard something like that once.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
michael_1166 Donating Member (412 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-24-06 08:23 AM
Response to Reply #32
37. Not sure, but
...he has been symbolically disinherited here by his German relatives. He visited them one or two times in the past, but since Iraq they don't want to see him anymore near their house.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ufomammut Donating Member (576 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-24-06 07:37 AM
Response to Original message
34. The Elder Bush said something along the same lines once...
Aside from that creepy "New World Order" speech he gave Sept 11, 1990 (yes, that's eleven yrs off) he once remarked during an interview something to the effect that (paraphrasing) "if the American public ever caught on to what we do, they'd hunt us down in the streets."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-24-06 08:17 AM
Response to Original message
36. The man will never step a foot out of this country because he knows
he's a war criminal and WOULD BE APPREHENDED by some other government and tried at the Hague. That's why he's so comfortable with his killing spree.....he's NEVER leaving this country when he's out of office.

Can't other governments arrest him now? If not, why not? He's a criminal. The ONLY way they will ever catch him is on one of his overseas "summits" or while on "official" business while IN OFFICE.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-24-06 08:30 AM
Response to Original message
38. Word in Texas--he'll sell the Pig Farm the minute he leaves DC.
Future plans include a gated community in the Metroplex. Lots of golfing.

Bush had the money & leisure to travel the world in his youth, but he didn't. As things are going now, folks on the course might even snub him....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-24-06 11:09 AM
Response to Reply #38
61. Ostracized within a gated community - what a lovely retirement. Good. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lethe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-24-06 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #61
76. i was hoping he would be living in a different kind of "gated community"
you know, the kind with 5000 rooms to a "house"
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-24-06 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #76
80. Oh yes indeedy. That would be the best outcome along with punitive damages
and everybody getting their money back from all the bfee frauds.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lisa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-24-06 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #38
85. Gated? I hope so! A big heavy one that can't be opened from the inside

If he likes golfing (or at least, cruising around in those little carts) so much ... and brush-clearing ... I say they put an electronic monitoring cuff on his ankle, and make him be the groundskeeper. He's so lazy, the course would be a total mess -- but since nobody else would want to visit him to use it (except for his old buddies like Cheney and Lay, maybe), no probs.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pat_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-24-06 08:47 AM
Response to Original message
41. Step 1: Impeach; Step 2: Turn them over to Hague to answer for War Crimes
Edited on Fri Mar-24-06 09:45 AM by pat_k
. . .This is the only way we can redeem ourselves in the eyes of the world, and begin to restore the "the international legitimacy that has been America’s most potent weapon of both offense and defense since the days of Woodrow Wilson."

J. Brady Kiesling -- a twenty-year veteran of the Foreign Service of the United States -- stated the following in his letter of resignation:

. . .Our fervent pursuit of war with Iraq is driving us to squander the international legitimacy that has been America’s most potent weapon of both offense and defense since the days of Woodrow Wilson. We have begun to dismantle the largest and most effective web of international relationships the world has ever known. Our current course will bring instability and danger, not security. . .


Bush's reign has devasted our national security at every level. We can make impeachment our moment of truth. An opportunity for the nation to reaffirm and repair the principles and institutions we established under our Constitution, and to "lay the plans and determine the strategy for the winning of a lasting peace and the establishment of an American standard of living higher than ever before known. . . under which a new basis of security and prosperity can be established. . ."

Excerpt Franklin D. Roosevelt's 1944 State of the Union

It is our duty now to begin to lay the plans and determine the strategy for the winning of a lasting peace and the establishment of an American standard of living higher than ever before known. We cannot be content, no matter how high that general standard of living may be, if some fraction of our people—whether it be one-third or one-fifth or one-tenth—is ill-fed, ill-clothed, ill-housed, and insecure. . .

We have come to a clear realization of the fact that true individual freedom cannot exist without economic security and independence. "Necessitous men are not free men." People who are hungry and out of a job are the stuff of which dictatorships are made.

In our day these economic truths have become accepted as self-evident. We have accepted, so to speak, a second Bill of Rights under which a new basis of security and prosperity can be established for all—regardless of station, race, or creed.


--------------------------------------
Impeachment-related working papers




Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
gasperc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-24-06 08:57 AM
Response to Reply #41
44. yes we have try and convict him
even a Democratic president wouldn't hand over a former president
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pat_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-24-06 09:56 AM
Response to Reply #44
51. Yup. Possible or not, it is what we must demand, loud and clear
Edited on Fri Mar-24-06 09:58 AM by pat_k
Outcomes are never assured until events are behind us. There are many stages, composed of innumerable actions. The possibilities are infinite.

To see the real possibilities before us, we must resist predictions of futility or doom.

Conventional wisdom assured us (even mockingly) that we would never get a Senator to stand up and object to the Ohio electors on January 6th. No mainstream good government entity even considered fighting to make it happen. They were too busy whipping themselves for losing, when Kerry had in fact won. Citizen lobbyists took up the fight. Mainstream folks didn't jump on board until it was clear that the effort itself was energizing people in a way they might well capitalize on.

Had they acted sooner, who knows? We might have inaugurated President Kerry on January 20th, 2004. And acting "sooner" could have been as early as December 12, 2000. Who knows? We might have inaugurated President Gore on January 20th, 2001.

There are so many other examples.

It is time to stand up and fight the good fights. Even when we don't think anything will work, we must still act on principle. (There are always benefits on the road, no matter what the outcome.)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-24-06 08:51 AM
Response to Original message
42. Did Hersh say anything about
hunting down the rest of the crime family?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TexasLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-24-06 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #42
62. No. This was just an aside.
His main focus was on Abu Ghraib, torture, and parallels with the Mi Lai massacre in Viet Nam. (Mi Lai was Hersh's first big story).

In both the Viet Nam war and our current war against Iraq, American soldiers have been asked to engage in a bloody fight against a country that didn't attack us. In both wars, the reasons for fighting are murky and the "enemy" is never really seen. The enemy wears no uniform, blends in with the population, and the US soldier walks around like he's got a target on his back.

The fear and frustration that builds up in this kind of battle, combined with youth, lack of sophistication, dehumanization of the enemy and rigid training to follow all military commands to the letter no matter how immoral, is a breeding ground for atrocities.

And we have a lot of atrocities to account for. We also have a president who was informed of Abu Ghraib early on but apparently said and did "NADA". (as Sy Hersh put it).
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-24-06 08:52 AM
Response to Original message
43. Maybe Sting can write a song for the resident
THEY DANCE ALONE

Why are there women here dancing on their own?
Why is there this sadness in their eyes?
Why are the soldiers here
Their faces fixed like stone?
I can't see what it is that they dispise
They're dancing with the missing
They're dancing with the dead
They dance with the invisible ones
Their anguish is unsaid
They're dancing with their fathers
They're dancing with their sons
They're dancing with their husbands
They dance alone They dance alone

It's the only form of protest they're allowed
I've seen their silent faces scream so loud
If they were to speak these words they'd go missing too
Another woman on a torture table what else can they do
They're dancing with the missing
They're dancing with the dead
They dance with the invisible ones
Their anguish is unsaid
They're dancing with their fathers
They're dancing with their sons
They're dancing with their husbands
They dance alone They dance alone

One day we'll dance on their graves
One day we'll sing our freedom
One day we'll laugh in our joy
And we'll dance
One day we'll dance on their graves
One day we'll sing our freedom
One day we'll laugh in our joy
And we'll dance

Ellas danzan con los desaparecidos
Ellas danzan con los muertos
Ellas danzan con amores invisibles
Ellas danzan con silenciosa angustia
Danzan con sus pardres
Danzan con sus hijos
Danzan con sus esposos
Ellas danzan solas
Danzan solas

Hey Mr. Pinochet
You've sown a bitter crop
It's foreign money that supports you
One day the money's going to stop
No wages for your torturers
No budget for your guns

Can you think of your own mother
Dancin' with her invisible son
They're dancing with the missing
They're dancing with the dead
They dance with the invisible ones
They're anguish is unsaid
They're dancing with their fathers
They're dancing with their sons
They're dancing with their husbands
They dance alone

STING

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-24-06 08:58 AM
Response to Original message
45. The USA is signatory to many extradition treaties.
The little turd from Crawford will have to answer for his war crimes.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TexasLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-24-06 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #45
92. Bush UN-signed that treaty in 2002
related to extradition for trials before the International Criminal Court.

That should have been a tip-off to the world that these guys were up to no good.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Burning Water Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-24-06 09:37 AM
Response to Original message
46. What country
would have the balls to hold an American ex-President if the USA wasn't willing to let him go? And if he wasn't arrested in the USA, they wouldn't be williig to let him go.

The Marines would be in that country's capital in 12 hours. No American president, no matter how progressive, can afford to let other countries prsume to exercise judicial authority over ex-Presidents for acts performed in performance of their office, no matter what they were.

Better, much better, would be to try the US judiciary.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
burythehatchet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-24-06 09:40 AM
Response to Original message
47. That's disappointing
I was hoping for a Nicolae Ceausescu type ending.

Ceauşescu and his wife Elena fled the capital by helicopter together with Emil Bobu and Manea Mănescu. They headed for Ceauşescu's Snagov residence, from where they fled again, this time for Târgovişte. The presidential couple kept moving through the countryside more or less aimlessly. Near Târgovişte they abandoned the helicopter, having been ordered to land by the army, which by that time had already declared Romania to be restricted air space. The flight included grotesque episodes: a car chase to evade citizens attempting an arrest, leaving their aides behind, a short stay in a school. The Ceauşescus were finally held in a police car for several hours, while the policemen listened to the radio, presumably in an attempt to get a clue as to which political faction was about to win. Police eventually turned over the presidential couple to the army. On December 25, the two were condemned to death by a military kangaroo court on charges ranging from illegal gathering of wealth to genocide, and were executed in Târgovişte. During their trial, and before their execution, the couple recited from the "Internationale". They were shot dead after they sang the fourth word.

The Ceauşescus were executed by an officer named Ionel Boeru who shot them with his sub-machine-gun.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Democrat 4 Ever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-24-06 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #47
55. I strongly agree that Bush, Cheney, Rice, Rumsfeld should all
be tried for crimes against humanity, for war profiteering, the list is endless. But something is much more likely to happen...the GOP spin machine will immediately get busy redeeming Chucklenuts & Co.'s "legacy. A lot like they did for Nixon, Reagan, etc. They could have Chucklenuts eating a live baby in front of the White House and they would find someway to "re-polish" the asswipe's persona.

Somehow the GOP has managed to downplay the atrocities of Reagan (including his suffering of Alzheimer's his entire second term), Iran Contra, busting unions, etc. and threw a week long funeral for a "statesman" and named an airport after him. I expect all paper currency to be redesigned with his likeness on it. Nixon has moved in GOP history from a vile, hateful man to one who just had some really bad men around him. He was just "misunderstood" and extremely smart and ethical caught up in being "burned" by his underlings.

The repugs have to, if the American people were allowed to remember the real actions of Republican presidents they would not elect another repug for the next 100 years. They will put lipstick on a whole slew of pigs. It is what they do.

And yes, I'm betting there will be an autobiography by Chucklenuts. He'll just have one of his Saudi friends pay someone to write it, publish it, and then buy all the books so it will rocket to the top of the Times' Best Seller List. Count on it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ramblin_dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-24-06 09:51 AM
Response to Original message
50. Maybe he'll get the Nicholae Ceaucescu treatment -
Perhaps this is a better analogy than Pinochet.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-24-06 09:59 AM
Response to Reply #50
53. ... by his former supporters.
The rabid conservatives I know have turned completely around (except for one person), and now say unprintable, mean things about him. :D


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-24-06 10:21 AM
Response to Original message
57. We'll try him here and he'll be convicted. This is just starting.
The public is in full scale revulsion at Bush, the anger is just building. All without any real press on the subject.

Wait until another 5% of the public goes to the internet for news, they he's really cooked.

THIS IS JUST STARTING AND 60% OF THE PEOPLE TOTALL DISAPPROVE OF BUSH.

TIME WILL ONLY MAKE IT WORSE FOR HIM.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
renate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-24-06 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #57
75. you've made a really good point, IMHO
The polls look this bad for Bush even without any widespread investigation of what's really going on. Now that the corporate media can report on the truth and don't have to worry that negative stories will lead to decreased ratings, I can imagine all kinds of dirty laundry finally getting washed in public, leading to further unpopularity, leading to more investigative reporting, leading to....

I think that now people feel freer to express their dislike of Bush because there isn't the meme "patriotism = loving Bush." The peer pressure is basically gone (except in certain Stepford circles). And as a direct result, the press isn't scared of him any more. Now reporters can get back to work without being muffled by their corporate overloads. (Personally, I've never blamed reporters for what's happened to the media--they had to toe the company line.)

Anyway, I love what you said about what'll happen once another 5% of the public learning the truth. I think it may even start to come, at least in part, from the evening news.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-24-06 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #75
91. Thanks, your elaboration proves our point!
It's like handicapping at the track. Our horse, "The Truth," has been running with an extra heavy load. Now the other horse has that weight to carry too and we'll win every time.

My extra 5% theory is based on two assumptions: 1) the corporate polls are already padding * by 5-7% just because that's what CM does and 2) when he hits a public 28% or so, the press will have to lead with real stories in an attempt to contain the "back lash." They'll risk becoming irrelevant and thus becoming powerless to sell their other important lies. * will be sacrificed to maintain "management's" ability to lie and mold public opinion.

Now, here's the really good news. This cascade of shocking and rage producing revelations is so significant that once CM tries to open up a bit to gain control, the dam will burst and all Hell will break lose.

At least that's what I think will happen.

Now, I feel like the guy who says, "Come on over and see the slides of our vacation" but take a look at this. Who knows: End Game

:hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-24-06 10:49 AM
Response to Original message
58. K&R!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
quiet.american Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-24-06 10:50 AM
Response to Original message
59. Bush will write an Executive Order granting himself a personal army
My prediction is that Bush will re-write existing code/regulations/law to grant himself the largest contingent of Secret Service agents ever provided to an ex-president because as we know "ever'thing changed after September 11th." I predict the number of taxpayer-funded bodyguards for him will be between 250 and 1500.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jack Rabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-24-06 11:04 AM
Response to Original message
60. The future retirement of Mr. Bush and members of his junta:


UN Prison, The Hague
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Algorem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-24-06 11:35 AM
Response to Original message
63. Could be a board game-"Where's *?"
Edited on Fri Mar-24-06 11:42 AM by Algorem
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Fiendish Thingy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-24-06 12:41 PM
Response to Original message
65. He may or may not be arrested, but it's likely that
his travel will be restricted to avoid arrest, and I think it's CERTAIN that he will require the LARGEST secret service detail ever for a former president to avoid an early demise. This fact alone will hopefully be enough to burst his "bubble" and he may be unable to avoid being aware of the damage he's done and the animosity he has generated towards this country and himself.
I don't think he's got a lucrative career ahead as a public speaker, and I can't imagine him doing a book tour like Clinton. Even if he accepts a cushy, well-paid position on some board of directors, can you imagine the protests and stockholder revolts at employing a war criminal?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TexasLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-24-06 12:51 PM
Response to Original message
66. Photo request
Does anyone have that cleverly photoshopped black and white picture of the Nuremberg trial, where the heads of Bush, Condi, Cheney, etc... are superimposed on the heads of all the Nazis sitting in the dock?

I would love to gaze upon it once again.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-24-06 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #66
69. That photo came to my mind also.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-24-06 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #66
70. Found it!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TexasLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-24-06 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #70
71. thank you, thank you, thank you!
I am going to put this to good use!

Visualize world peace, y'all!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-24-06 01:53 PM
Response to Original message
67. From his pen to G-d's ears......
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jara sang Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-24-06 02:00 PM
Response to Original message
68. His bubble will diminish when he leaves office.
Secret Service detail will be smaller and they won't be the kind of agents who stifle dissent like he has now. They will be baby sitters. Bush won't be able to go anywhere or do anything without somebody yelling something at him or throwing something at him.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
progressoid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-24-06 03:35 PM
Response to Original message
73. Nice thought but it'll never happen.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TexasLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-24-06 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #73
74. never say never!
there are unknown knowns and known unknowns and unknowables...

The future is very big, memories are long, grudges are forever, and the world is very unpredictable.

And hope springs eternal.

I think there may be a few haikus in there!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
blogslut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-24-06 03:57 PM
Response to Original message
77. Love love love Sy Hersh
here's a fun image:

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Rocknrule Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-24-06 04:13 PM
Response to Original message
78. Doesn't Ann Coulter think Pinochet is a good guy?
Of course that's no surprise. She thinks Hitler was a great man.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MountainLaurel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-24-06 04:33 PM
Response to Original message
81. That thought gives me hope to survive
:evilgrin:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lisa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-24-06 05:12 PM
Response to Original message
82. one writer (Alberto Manguel?) said Pinochet will become an ogre ...
... a monster in folk stories, in centuries to come -- I wouldn't be surprised if Bush turns out the same way.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
savemefromdumbya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-24-06 05:24 PM
Response to Original message
87. I think the hunt has begun
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-24-06 05:27 PM
Response to Original message
88. Little Lord Pissypants will never be able to hide. Ever.
Edited on Fri Mar-24-06 05:28 PM by fooj
He has enraged too many UNIVERSALLY!

Peace.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
killbotfactory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-24-06 06:02 PM
Response to Original message
90. He'll go live in Saudi Arabia
Where all his best friends are.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Amonester Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-24-06 11:14 PM
Response to Reply #90
96. Proof:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
hedgehog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-24-06 10:20 PM
Response to Original message
95. His liver won't last long enough for him to stand trial.
I think it's probably going already.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lisa0825 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-24-06 11:18 PM
Response to Original message
97. I just posted about this event at HoustonDemocrats.com
Edited on Fri Mar-24-06 11:19 PM by Lisa0825
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TexasLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-25-06 01:30 AM
Response to Reply #97
103. great summary
thanks!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lisa0825 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-24-06 11:18 PM
Response to Original message
98. self-delete - dup
Edited on Fri Mar-24-06 11:19 PM by Lisa0825
:blush:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
threadkillaz Donating Member (453 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-25-06 01:27 AM
Response to Original message
101. Bad boys, bad boys..
..whatcha gonna do?

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
im10ashus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-25-06 01:29 AM
Response to Original message
102. I would gladly take on the role of bounty hunter.
If that's what it took. I'm just saying...

:shrug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu Dec 26th 2024, 03:10 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (01/01/06 through 01/22/2007) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC