Over 15,000 at Phoenix March today!

[rene moon]

In Tucson, it was much smaller, like 200 but what a sight from Phoenix!


http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/03/24/immigration.protest.ap/index.html


Thousands line Phoenix street in protest march

01:07 PM Mountain Standard Time on Friday, March 24, 2006
The Associated Press

PHOENIX -- Thousands of supporters of immigrant rights turned out in Phoenix today for a march and rally in a call for more humane reform of immigration laws.

Organizers predicted a turnout of no more than 3,000, but police estimate 10,000 to 12,000.

The marchers clogged 24th Street as they marched from McDowell Road -- headed some three miles to the office of Sen. Jon Kyl at Camelback Road and 22nd Street.

Police say it's been peaceful.

A delegation of demonstrators -- after reaching the senator's office -- went inside and met with members of Kyl's staff and then left.

The demonstrators oppose a bill that would make it a felony to live or work illegally in the U.S. The measure approved by the House would also impose new penalties on employers who hire illegal migrants and build a fence along about a third of the U.S. border with Mexico.

The bill is to be voted on Monday by the Senate Judiciary Committee, of which Kyl is a member.

Kyl's office had no immediate comment on today's protest.



TV coverage showed the Phoenix march stretching for several blocks.

[Breeze54]

1. Great but do you have links? Pics? n/t

Thank you for adding the link!! :thumbsup:

Great turn-out, eh?

[Deep13]

2. "...felony to live or work illegally in the U.S. ..."

I'm astonished to find it isn't already. So people can violate our borders and our laws and invade this country with no real criminal penalties?

[Bridget Burke]

3. Oh my god, we're being violated!

Must be tough up in Ohio.

[Deep13]

10. Your implication is that it is not a problem here. You're wrong.

There are three reasons for that. One, there are illegal aliens all over the country. You see, when they get here, they can use an ingenious and diabolic way to get around: they get into automobiles and hop on the interstate highways. (Duh!) Second, illegal labor anywhere subverts lawful labor everywhere. That labor is presently turning farm land into strip malls and cluster housing for yuppies here in Ohio. Lastly, the huge shift in census data from the North to the South is due largely because of the gigantic numbers of illegal aliens near the border. Conservative Sourthern states get more representation at the expense of moderate or liberal Northern states because of a modern version of the 3/5s compromise. Illegal aliens don't vote and have no rights, but still get counted for the census.

[havocmom]

13. Point of clarity: Farm land being turned to strip malls by developers

and the policies of the politicians they buy. Illegal aliens are not paving over land. Land developers are.

Now, lots of developers hire illegals so they can pay less and not pay their share of taxes on their payroll, workers comp and so on. There may well be illegals working for the developers who are doing all the things you mentioned, but it is the developers who are buying the land, having it rezoned, investing in the new (though not necessarily improved) look and doing the building. The workers are doing the labor.

[Critters2]

21. It's easier for developers to do these things if

they don't have to pay a decent wage.

Illegal immigration is NOT good for labor!

[havocmom]

26. I agree that illegal immigration is not good for labor

but blaming illegals for urban blight isn't good for logically making the point.

Edited to add: Developers are gonna build regardless. Illegal labor just makes their profit margin larger.

[Bridget Burke]

15. Gosh, the illegals are even forcing Yuppies...

To move into cluster housing & patronize strip malls. They must have pretty good wages so they can buy up all the farm land.

Please prove that "gigantic numbers of illegal aliens" are the main cause of census growth down here. Besides--if they're moving up North, won't that shift the population numbers?

[Breeze54]

4. Do you mean like your family did?....n/t

[Deep13]

9. How so?

No one in my family is an illegal alien. I'm not responsible for acts of aggression committed in the 17th century when they first moved here. Later additions came here lawfully. I have an absolute right to be here. Those who sneak into this country have no right to be here. Nothing agrued by the pro-crime side of this issue changes the relevant facts at all.

[High Plains]

18. "Pro-crime side"?

I guess you didn't notice that it is currently not a criminal offense to enter the US without papers.

So much for all that "illegal alien" crap.

But the Republican bill already passed in the House would change that, and make criminals of anyone who helps an undocumented person.

[RB TexLa]

What about the descendants of those who "snook" into this country?

Should I be put on the next plane to Ireland?

[Critters2]

6. What concerns me is that employers are exploiting these people

to keep wages down. I really can't figure out how it's a Democratic position to support the abuse of workers, just because those workers are immigrants.

Siding with the US Chamber of Commerce just doesn't feel right to me.

I don't think these marches are a good thing. I think higher wages and unions are. When did that cease to be the position of the Democratic Party?

[Deep13]

12. Damned if I know. I thought we represented the people,...

...not our own holier-than-thou agenda. Another example of the rank and file of Democratic voter being undermined by ivory-tower intellectuals in the North East.

[High Plains]

34. "ivory tower intellectuals in the Northeast"

Who are you, George Wallace? I surprised you left out "pointy headed"

[High Plains]

20. Undocumented workers like better wages, too.

Regularize their status so they can't be so easily exploited.

Labor solidarity. Remember?

[Critters2]

24. Employers hire them BECAUSE of their llegal status

They are easily exploited because of their illegal status. The minute they are made legally able to join unions, the big effing corporations who are supporting these marches won't want them anymore.

For now, they are undermining the hard work of unions. It's YOU who need to think about solidarity.

[High Plains]

29. The big corporations supporting these marches? Do tell.

Maybe you should ask the AFL-CIO what it thinks on this issue. If I'm not mistaken, it supports the McCain-Kennedy bill that would create an amnesty. Or maybe it's really you who speaks for labor and not the AFL-CIO?

[Roon]

5. Ain't no power like the power of the people

because the power of the people don't stop!

[Critters2]

7. And the corporations who benefit from exploitation of "the people"

Wal-Mart, Smithfield, DelMonte, just to name a few.

[Blaze Diem]

38. Agreed..Its the Corps. that will ultimately decide this legislation

A battle to continue through the elections..with nothing decided until after that date.
The marchers will be promised on both sides, encouraged, discouraged, but in the end the deal will be cut behind closed doors in DC.
Corporation "ownership" society, afterall.

There can be only ONE winner in our Corporate legislated government.

[oasis]

8. No justice, no peace. (eom)

[Deep13]

11. Justice = enforcement of law.

Once that is done and anarchy is under control, we can talk about mercy.

[oasis]

36. "Mercy" will NEVER be dispensed from anyone who characterizes these folks

as "anarchists" or "felons".

[Critters2]

16. How is it just to hire workers who will work for less-than-minimum wage,

in dangerous jobs where OSHA regulations are violated and/or ignored, for hours no union contract would allow, in order to undermine unions...just to keep production high and prices low?

I'd rather require employers to pay a living wage, so that those already here would find it attractive to do the work.

[oasis]

31. These folks are trying to support their families. They are not "felons".

[Critters2]

32. I never called them "felons"

And the union workers whose jobs they've taken were also trying to support their families. Why are the immigrant families more worthy of support?

[oasis]

35. The proposed bill would make them felons. I've got a problem with

that. I never said "immigrant families are more worthy of support".

[Critters2]

42. But you've expressed no concern for those who've lost jobs

due to the exploitation of illegal workers.

[BuyingThyme]

23. Right chant, wrong protest.

:rofl:

[mdmc]

14. to the streets

K/R

[Critters2]

17. Power to the US Chamber of Commerce!!

[High Plains]

22. And the AFL-CIO

which supports McCain-Kennedy, if I'm not mistaken.

[Critters2]

27. In hopes that it will be able to organize them

The Repugs and their corporate benefactors will do everything in their power to keep this from happening. They're only here as cheap labor. When they're no longer cheap, which unionization would do, Wal-Mart will find someone else to clean.

[BuyingThyme]

19. We now have foreign criminals organizing against

the people of the United States -- right there in the open.

I guess being able to break laws without fear of penalty isn't enough for some people.

[High Plains]

25. Foreign criminals?

Did you check the IDs of those marchers? I think there are about 30 million people of Hispanic descent who are US citizens.

And what's with this "criminals" shit, anyway? It appears that entering the US without papers is currently not a crime, although the House bill already passed by the Republicans would make it a felony, and make it a crime for anyone to help an undocumented person.

Or are you trying to say that undocumented immigrants are a bunch of robbers and rapists?

[BuyingThyme]

28. Yes, illegal immigrants are criminals.

It's illegal to immigrate illegally. Crossing the border is not immigration; it's crossing the border. You are equivocating. It's a fancy way of lying.

You've exposed your dishonesty. What's next?

(Yes, I know: Denial.)

[Critters2]

30. It's true

Staying longer than allowed on a visa, or entering into residency without a visa is illegal. Certainly accepting employment without a visa is illegal.

What other laws should we ignore en masse?

[High Plains]

33. If it's already illegal, why did the Republicans make it a crime

in the bill they passed in the House?

Tautologies don't cut it: "it's illegal to immigrate illegally"

Even if I am mistaken about the legality of undocumented immigration, I have a real problem with referring to these people as "criminals." Their "crime" is not having a piece of paper. Calling them "criminals" unfairly associates them with robbers, rapists, murderers, and that would be dishonest. You wouldn't do anything like that, would you?

[BuyingThyme]

37. Yes, those damn pieces of paper.

Driver's licenses, contractor licenses, college degrees, work permits, Social Security cards... Why should criminals have to get papers like the rest of us? They're just papers.

Why should they have to go to court when they get cited, like I do? Why should they live by the rules, like the rest of us? Why should their lives be affected by the laws which govern the rest of us? What an outrage.

What you call "tautologies" is what honest, intelligent people call stating the obvious.

How is is that you're not embarrassed to say things like this?

[Critters2]

41. Their crime is driving down wages and putting citizens

out of work.

[Caoimhe]

39. some pics

Phoenix




Milwaukie


and LA

[cantstandbush]

40. This will have the same affect as the peace /anti-war protests.

Come election time, the opposition will win.

[Critters2]

43. Yep, this is a losing issue for us

But we're gettin' real good at losing!

[MisterP]

45. is there any evidence the protests caused our loss in '02, '04?

and not cowardice or outright fraud?

[Critters2]

46. There were other issues then

This is this year's losing issue. And already the Dems are playing it in such a way that it's sure to cost us votes.

But the flags are pretty.

[PsN2Wind]

47. Why do so many here

seem to think that advocating open borders and unfettered immigration is going to win back those "Reagan Democrats"? Telling blue-collar workers that we feel it only fair that they compete with these immigrants for their jobs isn't going to get us a lot of votes.
Maybe this is the idea behind the GM buy-out proposal. There will be plenty of people to take those formerly very well-paying jobs once the amnesty goes in effect.

[Critters2]

48. I don't understand it myself

Working for the rights of those who can't vote, against the interests of those who can is bound to lose us votes. I can't see how anyone thinks this is a good thing. But I've been flamed up one side and down the other for my position.

And all I want to do is see a few Dem victories.

[mitchum]

44. A sight to warm the hearts of all CHEAP LABOR CONSERVATIVES