It's not racist to oppose illegal immigration!

[nonconformist]

Unless you want to claim that not only am I racist against my own family, but they're also racist against their own people.

I grew up in a Hispanic household. My stepfather (since I was 9) is Mexican-American, as are my blood sister and brother, and my step-sister and step-brother, and a host of aunts, uncles, cousins and my grandparents.

Are some people that are opposed to immigration, legal or otherwise, racist? I'm sure they are. I'd wager a guess you'd be hard pressed to find them on DU, however.

Illegal immigrants are EXPLOITED by corporations for cheap, unaccountable labor. It's outsourcing on our own soil. They are able to bypass US labor laws and taxes by hiring illegal immigrants.

I currently live in Kentucky, and recently it was all over our local news that a large mining company, Massey, wants to change the current laws that require miners to be able to speak English for safety issues. They want to change this because, they say, that the work ethic of American miners is horrible and so many of them are "on drugs". This was in a leaked internal memo. Anyway, they want to change the law so they can bring in "other workers". This would be a devastating blow to an already impoverished area, where most of the good paying jobs for blue collar workers are in the mining field. They don't want to dole out those good salaries and benefits anymore, so what better way to do that than to import workers who will work for less and for longer hours.

To say you oppose such practices is not, in any way, blaming the illegal immigrants. I blame the corporations and the government for allowing this to happen. I want it stopped, NOW.

[Clarkie1]

1. I think an enforceable guest-worker program is the best solution. n/t

[sandnsea]

9. Global labor laws is the solution

A temporary guest worker program with no avenue for citizenship is just a free-for-all that will end any sense of labor rights we ever had in this country. It's a horrible idea. Fighting for good wages and an equitable economy around the world is a much better way to go.

[Clarkie1]

17. I disagree. That can't solve the problem soon enough.

Until we can get equitable wages worldwide, a guest worker program which enforced laws for the fair treatment of the workers would be a good solution.

Ultimately, what you propose is the solution, but that won't happen soon enough.

[Hubert Flottz]

18. I think you're exactly right!

Working people outnumber the slavemasters! WHEN WILL THEY FINALLY WAKE UP?

[Greyhound]

23. I'm not sure you are actually responding to the OP, but did you

read it? There is no need for new workers in this case. It is simply a ploy by the corporation to fire the existing workers and replace them with cheaper labor.

[Robert Oak]

2. yup

I don't know what the hell is wrong with people. During the Katrina "recovery" it really came out how they were using illegal aliens
to undercut wages and the worse hit were the local black construction workers.

It's not a race issue, it is a labor arbitrage issue.

[mdmc]

3. the practice of making them illegal is racist

Your family has the same rights, the same humanity, regardless of their legal status.

[Cleita]

4. Yes, making people illegal turns them into an underclass

that can be exploited. It takes away any rights they might have under the law if they are harmed in any way. I think it's very racist.

[napi21]

21. No, they "illegally" crossed the US border. THAT makes them illegal.

Nobody I know is calling all immigrants illegals. There are laws in every country I know of. I can't just decide to try to get a job in Canada. I have to abide by Canadian laws, and guess what, I checked on moving to Canada, because I am so disgusted with the US Gov't now, but Canada doesn't want me, so I can't get the OK to move and work there. I took the test, and I missed the minimum points required....BECAUSE OF MY AGE! My son works in Sicily for an American Company under a Navy contract. He's been there 4 years. He can't buy a house, or start a business, BECAUSE HE'S NOT ITALIAN!

There are ways to immigrate legally into the US. If you scam you way around the laws, that makes you an illegal.

[Sawber1001]

27. Amen

They aren't "made" illegal. They choose to become illegal.

[radio4progressives]

31. Like Choosing between Life and Death is a real "Choice"

that's why our politics is so fucked up in this country, not enough people here can even comprehend oppression, hunger, no real choices.

i guess as nation, we're still too priviledged to get it.

[sandnsea]

5. It's a labor rights, human rights issue

We have to change the discussion, this isn't about immigration. It's about union busting and undermining our standard of living and labor laws.

[mdmc]

8. HOLLA!

you got it!

[mdmc]

6. A strong union would alleviate your mining town concerns

:kick: for a strong UNION!

[nonconformist]

10. Absolutely! They've gotten rid of so many of them, it's tragic. nt

[mdmc]

12. Love your sig line. Fucking pathetic.

Did you see my Cheney / Deadhead / throwing stones thread by any chance?

[nonconformist]

22. No, but I will search for it! Thanks. nt

[mdmc]

25. check it out

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=290x676

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[nonconformist]

11. Nice straw man there. nt

[radio4progressives]

30. I agree...

it's an amazing level of denial...

[radio4progressives]

13. Yes.. The Issue is Exploitation - NOT "Illegal Immigration"

Exploitation is the issue. That's what people need to focus on.

Deal with THAT issue, honestly and prinicpled manner - and the problems of so called "illegal immigration" is pretty much wrapped up.

Not to worry, we're going to build an Iron Curtain on along our borders, because we are becoming a Totatlitarian Regime. As soon as that project is completed, people won't even be able to LEAVE if they wanted to. It'll be like East Berlin - We'll have border patrols with authority to shoot on site - people in Mexico better get the word soon and fast..


There is a problem of exploitation, our country's wealth was always based on cheap labor economy - first it was slaves in the south and exploiting immigrants including child labor in the North East. )Chineese slaves in California, later)

Progressive Movements, such as the Abolitionists, the Womens Sufferage Movement and Workers/Labor/Union changed a lot of horrible conditions, eventually.. but then the ruling class set their sites Westward for more land grabbing - they took what they could from the settled or occupied by both indigenous people, and people from Mexico - in fact much of the southwest was Mexico, until the white man set off on their land grabs. The White Man won and made thier claims as they saw fit. The successes and struggles of the Progressive movements was not powerful enough to effect change quickly enough, especially without the right to vote, so it was not helpful during this period.

There is a problem of a Zenophobia/Racism - the fear that Mexico is going to take back California along with the entire Southwest, Arizona, New Mexico and Texas vis a vis population. The fear and paranoia is so deeply rooted in White Supremacy and racism, we in California have been looking at this issue for decades. It got all crazy and out of control as soon as Bush took office for reasons i haven't quite sorted out yet.

But right now, "terra-ists" propaganda is being used to wratchet up the fears and paranoia, and it's apparently succeeding.

So those who want to see Sealed Borders, are likely to see that occur fairly soon, just don't be stunned by the negative effects in what you're demanding now. And by the way, it won't solve the problem of exploitation.

[Swamp Rat]

26. Exploitation is a global problem.

I when I was young, I dreamed of an America that would help end worldwide hunger, exploitation, and human trafficing.

Now, I dream of stopping those problems right here. :(

[radio4progressives]

29. Yes, Swamp Rat.. Human's Inhumanity to Human's is a Global Problem

that's the issue.. :cry:

[Robert Oak]

14. gotta love these posts

If you don't allow union busting and labor arbitrage, i.e. give up your job, you're a racist.

Jesus. Anybody consider getting creative with solutions, such as any corporation who uses illegal aliens to replace American workers automatically all executive pay of the officers of that corporation for 1 year is confiscated, given to the illegal aliens evenly and they are sent home with this cash to interject it into their own economies by starting a business there, buying land and so on?

Hell, no. Just "you're a racist", sorry that's just ridiculous!

[jarab]

15. Article in today's Herald-Leader ....

Money sent home from the US is the #2 source of income for Mexico - next to oil income.
I'm personally torn on the issue.

...O...

[Terran1212]

16. Personal attacks against immigrants is what is disgusting

Talking about immigration in a humane, pragmatic, and practical way doesn't make me angry.

Dehumanizing and abusing the immigrants who risk everything to come here is just disgusting, though.

"They don't respect our laws!!!"

What the **** does that mean anyway? What the hell are you fanatics talking about? They are suddenly a pack of huge criminals out to get you instead of near-peasants, now?

[UTUSN]

19. Well --------------it's ------SORTA ---------racist n/t1

[mitchum]

20. But the Pollyannas who are the stooges of the cheap labor movement...

will bleat that it certainly is racist.
And they are fucking wrong.

[Cobalt Violet]

28. Do you mean the ones who evidently type faster than they think?

I don't think they've shown up at this thread yet, but we'll know when they get here.

:popcorn:

[QC]

32. What's taking them so long?

Normally they descend on threads like this within seconds, shrieking and wailing and slinging accusations of racism left and right.

[Strelnikov_]

36. Probably Checking On The Trust Fund, Grading Papers For Their Tenured

teaching position, or calling home to the parents asking for more money.

[PsN2Wind]

24. Importing labor is more costly

than exporting jobs.
Those that think the illegal immigrants to this country contribute more than they take from the economy are deluded. My state of Arizona contributes an average of $6,000 per pupil to the schools per year. The extra cost of teaching English to the non-English speaking is an added demand on those dollars. Unless these immigrants are getting really good paying jobs or aren't having children, they aren't paying their own way.
They aren't "only doing jobs that citizens won't do", if that were the case the farmers in California wouldn't be complaining about their inability to get the labor to get the crops in. Many of the eleven or twelve million in this country illegally aren't doing farm labor anymore but are much more likely to be on a construction crew.
Those of us in the border states pay a disproportionate amount of the cost to educate, medicate and incarcerate these people that have entered our country illegally.

[Name removed]

33. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Rosemary2205]

34. Massey is union busting.

it has nothing to do with work ethic.

Nafta was supposed to do something about the flow of illegals by making wages in Mexico better. Instead wages have GONE DOWN in Mexico because corps decided 5 yr old slaves in China were cheaper. The race to the bottom is everywhere.

My personal feeling is if the mexicans are going to take over America and our government is just going to sit around and let them, then we need to change the laws to accomodate them. Get them ID, get them paying taxes, get them educated, get them decent wages. IMHO if corps are going to use the illegals for bumping up profits then we should be sticking the corps with the bill for the social services and law enforcement costs that go with it. - IOW we need to deal with the reality we have rather than just say "send um all home".

[Yollam]

35. Of course it's not. It's not even xenophobic.

It's in the interest of any society to place reasonable limits on immigration for the sake of economic and social stability. It's perfectly reasonable to call for more or less immigration, but to say that anyone who wants tighter limits is a racist by default is dishonest and misguuided.