Did Anyone See David Brooks last nite on Lehrer?

[leftyladyfrommo]

He had an interesting take on the low polls. And I think he may be on to something pretty close to the truth - we don't understand the Muslim culture at all. And we think they are crazy.

Personally I think that will be the real reason we get out of there. Like the death penalty for that man who converted to Christianity. Or the death penalty for women for just about any reason. And the reaction to the cartoons. And the over sensitive reaction to just about everything.

That world just doesn't make sense to us. And that will be what gets us out of there.

[boobooday]

1. A good reason why we shouldn't have gone in the first place

[leftyladyfrommo]

3. That was my opinion from the start.

We have absolutely no business over there - never did.

But I have to say that I was apalled by the way women were being treated in Afghanistan under the Taliban. And I was glad to see us go after them.
But that was a personal thing. I will always be in opposition to any government or tribe where women are treated badly.

[boobooday]

8. I agree

I also find it appalling.

More appalling is a government which claims to stand for liberty and justice dealing with these regimes when it suits them, and professing outrage at their behavior when it is convenient to do so. The women of Saudi Arabia and many other countries are also not free.

And it's putrid to watch the right pretend that they care so much about the rights of women around the world while they seek to limit them here.

The question is, what should be our role in this battle? Right now we look like "do as we say, not as we do." And yet, if we did model a true and peaceful democracy, if we did spread hope and education and exemplify equality, I believe we would go much further toward helping women around the world find their voices.

[efhmc]

12. "The disgraceful treatment of women a personal thing"? It certainly is and

should be for anyone who says they love freedom and promotes democracy. Freedom and democracy do not and will not exist without equal rights for women; an idea that seems to have completely escaped this mush-for-brains and stones-for-hearts group of bushies.

[Eurobabe]

9. great photo!

[BlueEyedSon]

2. What's to understand? We bombed the shit out of them, killing 100k

(at least half women and children), now we are occupiers there to control their oil industry and build a dozen permanent bases.

It wouldn't matter if they were atheists, they would want us out all the same....

Brooks is a neocon apologist, plain & simple.

[leftyladyfrommo]

4. IOh Piffle! That isn't a good reason. It was for their own good.

And if you don't believe that then you probably are not a Republican.

[MuseRider]

5. Oh there is a certain part of our

citizenry who understand them perfectly and are trying to move us in that direction.

[RBHam]

6. David Brooks isn't going to Hell.

He's already there.

[KharmaTrain]

7. America Myopia

One thing I'm grateful for is my parents took me traveling abroad when I was a kid...it opened one's eyes to a world outside one's neighborhood. You learn not everyone speaks English or you can't find food you like or you can't find a baseball score...little things that call out that "i'm in in Kansas anymore". It forces one to look at each nation as a specific culture with its own unique complex qualities...some that are similar to ones we live and others that are totally alien. I found it fascinating to try to learn the difference.

Thanks to our popular culture and a rather "homogenous" and isolated geography, Americans have enjoyed nearly 100 years of living in their own reality. Our media and popular culture (music, movies, TV shows, books) portray a very introverted view of the world...with "American norms" being the standard and other cultures as either being "different" or in many cases "primitive".

The majority of us who have grown up in the television age have been bombarded with these images...some of us older types can remember when those images were used to crete or promote stereotypes...but it's always been that a culture different than ours is viewed as strange or with suspect.

The end result has been a country...especially in the more religious areas...that have lived in a cultural and social bubble and want to impose their myopic views on others. Their ignorance of other cultures is used as a means to maintain this isolation and maintain their own importance.

It's been pointed out here many times the similarities between extreme xtianity and islam. I'll throw in Judiasm as well. These groups only flourish in an isolated and paranoid environment. Ignorance and intolerance are keys to maintaining a status quo the leaders and their political benefactors profit from.

[rooboy]

10. All of those "muslim" things you cite are only examples of extremism...

not Islam itself. The numbers of people rioting over the cartoons was far smaller than the news reports would have you believe. Another thing you should know is that the cartoons were published months ago, and the Islamic community in Denmark had tried (unsuccessfully) for many weeks to get a retraction or acknowledgement from the publisher that it was offensive. Only after that did things get nasty.

If the muslim world was really up in arms, Jarkata would be in flames right now, Musharraf would be dead and a number of cities in northern England would be engulfed in riots. The most populous Islamic nation in the world isn't even in the middle east. It's important not to confuse Arab culture with Islamic culture. By the way, what's the "Christian culture"??

The failure to understand Islam is a product of American journalism more than anything else.

[bridgit]

11. Brooks seemed to be stumbling round grasping for the response...

it must be a hideous task defending the indefensible :puke:

[OregonBlue]

13. With a couple of twists, he was just spouting the party line that

the media is not covering the "good" news. He stumbled and fumbled and really couldn't come up with anything new or profound. Just another administration "whore".

[leftyladyfrommo]

14. I always feel kind of sorry for him now.

I like David Brooks and I believed that he believed his reasons for starting that war were valid - he spoke about the rape rooms as the main reason for the war - for the civil rights of the Iraqis.

But I think he is just holding on to straws now. All of his logic has sort of turned to dust.

[OregonBlue]

18. I agree that he's rather pitiful but, I can't feel sorry for him. He is

still trying to defend this bunch of criminals.

[Bozita]

15. link to transcript and audio replay

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/political_wrap/jan-june06/sb_3-24.html

JIM LEHRER: And to the analysis of Shields and Brooks, syndicated columnist Mark Shields, New York Times columnist David Brooks.

Mark, is the captain right? Is Iraq leading to a further divide between the civilian and military societies of our country?

MARK SHIELDS, Syndicated Columnist: I don't think there's any question, Jim, and the contrast between Vietnam and Iraq is pervasive and obvious.

Then, when the specter of the draft and being brought into service, oftentimes against their will became a high moral issue for many people to crusade against the Vietnam War, and the apathy, I think, this time is a reflection of that.

JIM LEHRER: And he said, the captain said, David, also that it's an intellectual exercise rather than a personal exercise, because there are so few people who are directly affected.

DAVID BROOKS, Columnist, New York Times: Right. Well, you see that if you go in areas of the country where there's heavy military presence, that Iraq is so much in the media thing, a personal thing, that their families are sacrificing for. You go to other parts of the country, and it's something you read about in the paper.

more...

[jimshoes]

16. I think it was Kipling who once wrote

"East is East and West is West, and never the twain shall meet". I think he was correct in his assessment.

[leftyladyfrommo]

17. He probably would have known.

I sure don't see these two sides coming together any time soon.