If you drop Lou Dobbs in a neighborhood in 1950, 1850 or any time ...

[RB TexLa]

assuming you have a time machine, who doesn't think in less than five minutes he wouldn't be able to find the non-WASP who is making "War on the middle class"?

[napi21]

1. In fairness to Lou, it was never this bad in my lifetime!

I guess it was way back when workers finally formed unions to stop the abusive employers, but not since them. Heck, in the 50's, at least the GM, Ford, RR, etc were hiring people to work in the UNITED STATES!

[Virginian]

3. And they were hiring Americans of all colors and backgrounds.

OP seems to think Lou Dobbs is a bigot for wanting to keep American jobs for Americans and pay us what we are worth in American wages.

Does he think Unions are bigoted for wanting to support fair labor practices and fair wages?

Bush ran around last year talking about Social Security going broke. Isn't that partially because employers who hire people illegally are not contributing to the fund? We can't have the Social Security and other benefits if everyone doesn't play by the rules. I don't blame the worker, I blame the employer. If we would crack down on the employers, the problem wouldn't be so pervasive. As long as employers are willing and able to avoid the law, there will be people who will fill the jobs.

IRS should crack down on these businesses big time. It is tax evasion pure and simple.

[K-W]

5. Actually Social Security isnt going broke, Bush was lying about that ofc.

And in many cases illegals do pay taxes because they work with false papers (you can only do so much business under the table before the irs wonders where your payroll is), meaning many illegals pay into the system, but hae no hope of ever recieving benefits.

My uncle works in roofing and he says they always have a good laugh when they give out the paychecks and illegal workers struggle to remember the fake names on thier checks.

[mdmc]

2. I don't understand

what do you mean?

[izzybeans]

4. His reactionary drivel against immigrants results from having no

framework with which to understand exploitation. He blames immigrants for taking "our" jobs, but says very little about the wage deflation that has been ongoing since the 70s. CEOs on average get paid more than huge chunks of their entire workforce and I'm supposed to blame unions and immigrants for the "war on the middle class". Well Mr. Dobbs you should of put down the neo-liberal handbook and read a little economic and labor relations history.

In the 1850s he would have blamed Catholics and/or any Protestant denomination that was not consider peachy. If he's a Catholic today than I wonder if he was never told those tales.

In the 1950s he would of been blaming :gasp: "blacks" for migrating to the North. And in the South blamed them for not "knowing their place" is in the fields.

He's just a long line of upper-class faux-champions of the middle class spreading the blame everywhere but where the problem lies.

[napi21]

6. You obviously don't listen to Lou very often.

He's constantly blaming the employers, explaining he's NOT against immigration, and that America was built by immigrants. He's against ILLEGAL immigration, and the employers who employ them aat ridiculous low wages. Even Lou says the employers are exploiting those folks.

Take the time to actually listen to what he's saying before making a rash decision on what you THINK he says.

[izzybeans]

9. I listen to him enough to know that this was a slow awakening for him

My comments are directed at him only becoming concerned about this recently and yes he consistently parses words between LEGAL AND ILLEGAL. As I said he is still no different than any upper class folk pointing the finger at the wrong source. exploitation is the hallmark of capitalist labor relations.

I KNOW what he says I watch it. I merely find him an empty windbag. I prefer my champions of the middle class to have some empirical muscle and historical imagination behind their diatribes.


I would simply ask him to focus his attention not on IMMIGRATION and labor(illegal or not) and focus on the inherent nature of EXPLOITATION in labor (legal or not). It is a theoretical difference and that part is not personal. He will then see its not the relationship between illegals and employers that is problematic (that is what his "free-market" system is all about). Wage deflation has nothing to do with ILLEGALS and everthing to do with the fact that our economy thrives and always has on class warfare. The middle class did very well for itself for about 30 years-but it then relinquished that power by having no choice but to start pumping its money into a consumer economy that now gives them diminishing returns. It became outflanked on all sides (in the workplace, at the doctor's office, in politics, etc.) during the Cold War and afterwords; about the same time words like union, liberal, and communist became synonyms. Migrant labor is and alway will be a part of the economy. And MIGRANT workers are exploited whether they are LEGAL or ILLEGAL, just as the middle-class has been all along, they just are now starting to realize it, as working class folks did during the Industrial Revolution; its just that now that the bandaids have been lifted (regulation) making ends meet has become an art at balancing debt (the hallmark of exploitation and an extremely solid form of social power).

Until he starts to broaden his understanding of exploitation I can not sit and cheer along as others on this forum just because Lou sometimes says something I agree with. Until that time I'll for the most part sit idle shaking may head. The anti-immigrant diatribes lately have just become too much for me to handle lately. If you feel wronged in anyway and feel that I lump you into that category, especially because you do not belong there, so I do apologize. Tis a function of the mood and an inescapable property of language. Because I am sure somewhere in my post I have used language that will unduly categorize something you identify with, and that is not my intent; because I do not think your post indicates anything of the sort...but...just in case...I do apologize.

[madmunchie]

7. He is actually right

The uncontrolled influx of illegal immigrants is hurting the economy. It is not the only thing hurting the economy, but it is hurting the economy none the less. Why have immigration laws when they are not enforced? Why encourage people to come to this country illegally and force them to live in the shadows working for low wages? It is corporatracy's newest form of slavery.

Meanwhile wages are depressed in the border states because of the cheap labor always in supply. Hourly wages for the same job are drastically lower in the border states forcing everybody in those states to live a lower standard of living.

There has been a rich history of this country exploiting people to further the wealth and position of corporations, this is just the latest version of it.

We are outsourcing middle class jobs to overseas workers and importing low paid workers to keep wages in many areas low. What is not true and unfair about this?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

8. The capitalists always blame the workers for their woes.

The "illegal immigrants" are just the latest group to take the heat. But, their fighting back, and they'll win because we need them.

[Virginian]

10. I see Lou Dobbs as

one of the few Republicans who is stand up against huge corporations running this country.
If these companies had their way, they would offshore as many jobs as they could and only hire people they could exploit for the jobs they can't offshore. The offending corporations will do what they can to get around the wage and labor laws of this country and still expect to sell their products in this country.
It just so happens that the illegal immigrants are the easiest for them to exploit. If the illegals were not available, the companies would have to pay a higher wage to an American. If the companies weren't hiring, the illegals wouldn't come here for the jobs. It's a cycle that has to be broken for the sake of our economy. I say start with the greedy companies. The people are just trying to eat.

Then there are the H-1B visas. Companies hyped the Y2K problem to bring in more foreign workers. The crisis is over for anyone who believed it existed in the first place. We can start reducing the visa numbers so that American tech workers aren't forced into taking lesser jobs. The unemployed are not counted accurately because we have been unemployed or underemployed for too long.
My deck was built by an unemployed tech worker who gave up trying to get back into computer work and became a handyman.
How do we expect our youth to major in computer related fields when there won't be any jobs for them. How do we grow our own experts when so many are imported?

These Republicans who are catering to Big Business are not doing this country any good; they need to be replaced. I long for the days of the Clinton economy. I think if he were in office today, he would put limits on Nafta once he saw that free trade was not working as fair trade.

I am not an economist. I don't have the answers. Maybe we should bring back tariffs on imported products that have taken jobs out of the country. If a country is registered in the Bahamas to avoid taxes, put restrictions on them, don't let them have it both ways. Our economy is in a downward spiral. We need to do something to pull up the nose.
Bush's war and his economic plan to reduce taxes for the rich has put this country in debt to the tune of $30,000 per person. That's a lot of debt.

edited for punctuation.