I saw "why we fight" last night and it scared the crap out of me...

[Javaman]

senators tied to lobbies, lobbyists tied to defense contractors, defense contractor making tons and tons of money. They in turn maintain a huge work force in this country 2 point something million workers.

Each weapon contract is farmed out to all fifty states. So if someone lobbies or tries to vote against the contract, all 100 senators come out in force against it because they will lose reelection as the guy who cut or lost jobs.

it's a colossal house of cards. At some point, it's going to break us. Perhaps it already is. 3/4 of a trillion dollars are spent on weapons in this country. remove that and the nation collapses.

It's basically assured now of perpetual war. It's been ramping up to this for the past 50 odd years because of what Eisenhower warned us against. The Military Industrial Complex.

Needless to say, it was far from an uplifting movie. Although the message at the end is: if we the people stand up and say no more, then things will end.
but honestly, do we actually see that happening with today's apathetic society?

The majority of the people in this nation stand by. Many more now shake their heads in disgust at morons* inability to act like an adult, but how many really open their mouths and say NO MORE?

Damn, I'm scared. I'm working hard for the midterms. But honestly, if we don't win back the congress and/or the house come November, I say in a nut shell, this country is fucked.

Perhaps I'm just in such a somber mood because of the movie, but it's tough to really be optimistic after seeing how corporations control so much. And we are having a more and more diminished voice in how this country is run and in our private lives.

Please give me some words of encouragement, I need it.

Peace.

[Blecht]

1. Just a K&R

I'm depressed about all this, too.

Maybe somebody else can cheer us both up.

[tjwash]

2. We are in the final stages of our little empire.

There are generally seven stages to any empire / civilization. Unending war and decadance was the final stage of the Roman empire,and is the final stage of ours.

Take a look at Italy, or Egypt as it stands in the present. That is our future...

[serryjw]

15. Great article on the stages

quote....
"The de facto role of the United States Armed Forces will be to keep the world safe for our economy and open to our cultural assault. To those ends, we will do a fair amount of killing".


http://www.transnational.org/forum/meet/2004/Galtung_USempireFall.html

[rman]

3. trailer:

must see

http://www.sonyclassics.com/whywefight/

[Hissyspit]

4. Off to the Greatest Page with you. n/t

[EVDebs]

5. CBS News article says Pentagon can't find $2.3 Trillion !

CBS News 'War on Waste'

www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/01/29/eveningnews/main325985.shtml

was done just before the Iraq invasion has Rummy hisself saying this. And M$M (I think GE who owns NBC owns defense industry manufacturing facilities if I'm not mistaken) is afraid to report any of this.

CBS now is pretty quiet on the western front.

The only 'bright spot' I can tell you about is that movie The Corporation which shows that corporations are acting psychotically if viewed as real people. See the synopsis 'pathologies of commerce' at

http://www.thecorporation.com/index.php?page_id=2

Very important line of thinking, given globalization and the power and control of these 'persons' in our modern world. Maybe some of them should have their charters revoked.

[specimenfred1984]

6. Can't, I Can Only Reinforce What You Said

The D.C. region is full of Torture Inc. contractors and sub-contractors. They are little fascist dictatorships, each and every one of them.

[Blue_In_AK]

7. We're seeing this movie this afternoon...

I had a hunch it would be eye-opening and depressing.

[Katherine Brengle]

8. Yep, that's pretty much the state of things...

[BeHereNow]

9. Too late for encouragement, but not for making a plan.

The bad news is: Yes, we are totally fucked.
The good news is: Finally, people are beginning to comprehend
just HOW fucked we are.
Why is that good news? Because by fully understanding
reality, a process dulled in the majority of Americans who can't
even read or comprehend the serious analysis of geo political experts, at least you
have some clue as to what you will need to do to survive in a
global multi national corporate controlled world.
Step one in that plan is to fully comprehend
that they don't give a damn about you.
Only those who understand that will survive it.
BHN

[HamdenRice]

10. It's going to end soon, but for very unexpected reasons

The military industrial complex is going to end for either or both of two reasons.

First, if 9/11 MIHOP is proven, there will be a massive political realignment. Part of that will be the recognition that the biggest threat to the security of the American people is in fact the security apparatus of the military intelligence complex. Think of it: If 9/11 was MIHOP, elements within our own military intelligence complex are complicit in the killing of more people than were killed by the Japanese at Pearl Harbor. At that point the military will lack the legitimacy to demand so much of our national resources, and moreover, politicians will defund it in order to tame the beast.

The other reason will be that the Chinese and Japanese will tell us we cannot have our military industrial complex any more -- and they can do that because they are paying for it by lending us money. If Bush does something catastrophically stupid like invading Iran, the Chinese, Japanese and other holders of US treasuries will divest themselves for both financial and strategic reasons, and we will come face to face with the wall.

At the end of the day, I don't worry much about the danger that looming financial crises of deficits, social security, and medicare pose to our system, because every analysis fails to include cutting the military budget by about $400 billion a year. That's a lot of savings available to solve all our problems.

[serryjw]

14. It would take 10 years to cut the MIC by $400 Billion

I love DK and 100% support the Dept of Peace but we have gotten ourselves into one hell of a mess. How many (high paying) Americans makes their living, directly or indirectly, with the MIC? Can you say the D word that would make The Great Depression look like a picnic

This is the same problem we have with Peak Oil. We created this mess with urban sprawl, now how do we QUICKLY unmake it? Americans live and drive to working hubs, how does everyone give up their car???

[FatDave]

11. Everybody should see this movie

Seriously, it's way good, for all the reasons Javaman listed. If I remember correctly most of the people inteviewed are republicans, so it's not like it's just a bunch of kooky libruls screaming "the sky is falling".

If nothing else, you've got to see the part where John McCain's interview is interrupted by what I imagine was a very awkward phone call.

[IndyOp]

12. We could still make choices to prevent a crash & burn landing..

If money currently flowing to Military Industrial Complex were shunted directly to pay wages to the millions who are currently dependent upon on it we would still save trillions of dollars a year -- that money could be used to fund desperately needed programs at home, pay reparations to Iraq, and pay down the national debt.

I think the world will help us avoid a crash & burn landing if we would WAKE UP, stop spending on the military, and have the decency to ask for their help.

Think about the break-up of the USSR -- it happened because of overspending on military, too -- and, while the economies of the individual states were bad, truly bad -- there was not mass starvation and in most of the countries citizens solved problems without guns and riots.

Our leaders are clueless. We can stand and take care of each other. That is what gives me hope -- us talking and acting together.

[upi402]

13. This is a big part of Rome's fall

and it will be ours.

All who are complicit are traitors to American democracy.

[mmonk]

16. This is my thoughts as well

"Damn, I'm scared. I'm working hard for the midterms. But honestly, if we don't win back the congress and/or the house come November, I say in a nut shell, this country is fucked."


People like to talk about 2008 but democracy will be won or lost sooner than that.

[Javaman]

17. self delete

[Greyhound]

18. I'm afraid The Democratic Party will win, but will also be rendered

completely ineffectual by the Re:puke: and Democratic wings of The Corporate Party. Simply winning will not suffice if they cannot make the radical and, most importantly, unprofitable changes that are absolutely essential.

[progressoid]

19. Watch some clips here:

http://www.sonyclassics.com/whywefight/main.html

This is on my "to buy" list.

[Blue_In_AK]

20. Javaman, I agree with you completely....

This movie was very well done and extremely disturbing. It's disconcerting when you learn that all your tinfoil hat paranoias are not only true but worse than you thought. Particularly, did it strike you odd that just as John McCain was speaking with the interviewer about his doubts about the administration's policies that Dick Cheney was on the line? Does he have a bug in every senator's office? For some reason that little "coincidence" really bothered me. And, oh my God, Richard Perle could not have been more Dark Lord-like. What a creepy, creepy human being. I won't be forgetting this movie.