Immigration is not a red or blue issue. It's a proximity issue.

[Jara sang]

If you have illegals living in your community and straining the local infrastructure then you are anti-immigration. If you are white, the closer you live to the Mexican border, you are probably anti-immigration. I've heard people who describe themselves as "liberals" who live in L.A. call Mexicans "beaners". If you live in an area that doesn't have a lot of migrant workers you probably could care less about immigration. If you own a landscaping company you are pro-immigration. If you are a Republican and have illegals cleaning your house then you are pro-immigration.
I worked for a rich Republican in Loudoun County, Virginia(large illegal population) he had illegal migrants cleaning his very large estate and horse farm. Hanging out with his wife, all her and her friends talked about was their thoroughbreds and the quality of service from their Mexican "help". Seriously, I had never seen anything like it. If the illegal workers working for this guy knew how much they talked about them I think they would be shocked and flattered. The fact of the matter is that I met and talked with a few of the people working on this estate and they are hard working people and very kind and generous. If it was your job to look an illegal migrant worker in the face and tell them they were going to jail or being deported, I don't think you could do it unless you had absolutely no heart what so ever.

[mdmc]

1. not a bad take jara sang

not bad at all.

[msgadget]

2. Exploiting cheap labor is the American way

and being 'for' illegals has to be about more than just allowing them entry but also about raising their status once they're here. ALL workers in this country deserve more employment rights and better wages. WE deserve to prosper alongside the 'masters' who employ us.

[QC]

3. It's also a class issue.

People who work in the fields that once paid a decent wage and benefits, like meatpacking and construction, but became "jobs Americans won't do" due to widespread exploitation of illegal labor, tend to see the matter differently than do those whose livelihoods are not threatened.

[pitohui]

13. qc has it right

maybe i'm cold-hearted but i would have no problem telling someone who wants to make himself a slave and therefore my husband who has to compete w. him a slave that he needs to go back where he came from or go to prison

slavery is wrong even if the slave himself wants it because it doesn't just hurt the slave, it hurts the man who actually needs to earn a living wage to support his family

[proud2BlibKansan]

4. There are a ton of illegals here in my community

and I am not the least bit anti-immigration.

There goes that theory.

[Warpy]

5. I'm white and live in a border state and I like Mexicans

Most of the folks around me like Mexicans. This is New Mexico, not California, Arizona, or Texas, though, and we're a little different here.

What we don't like, approaching hatred, are the corporate pigs and even small business owners who offer starvation wages that ONLY Mexicans will take (because the few dollars they save will translate into a LOT of pesos when they go home) and then WHINE nonstop about how Americans "don't want to work." BULLSHIT. This is a WAGE issue.

Mexicans who are expected to live in squalor while they're paid starvation wages are exploited. Americans who can't find work at a pay rate they can live on IN THIS COUNTRY are exploited.

We're all under attack, folks, and it's not by Mexicans. It's by CHEAP LABOR CONSERVATIVES and it always has been. WAKE UP!

[pitohui]

14. we can't compete, we're not allowed to live in a tent

there is a political "cheap labor conservative" issue there, i agree, i cannot legally live in a tent and live on what the illegal immigrant makes, yet somehow authority closes its eyes when it's mexicans or guatemalans living in the tent

what native american can compete, we are required to go in accordance w. housing code and live in a safe structure so we have to earn enough to be able to pay for said structure

then in comes people who are allowed to work for slave wages and live in tents, it don't matter how hard we work, we can't compete with that, the math is not there

allowing illegal immigration is to help the cheap labor conservative destroy what remains of the american working class and lower middle class

[Raine]

6. True, my repug racist cousin defended

illegals, WHY (?)...cause he had a factory and he liked to have the cheap labor.

[LWolf]

7. I'm caucasian.

I lived in Los Angeles County for 38 years. I've never been anti-immigration. I observed, and experienced a few cultural differences. It happens. When they are your neighbors and friends, you learn to appreciate and enjoy those differences. :shrug:

[sandnsea]

8. It's an ignorance issue

Flame away, but that's just the way I see it. The same people attacking the immigrants are the ones who would have been fighting for the south to "preserve their way of life" or some stupid shit.

Business is the problem now just like business was the problem then. Demanding fair wages for EVERYBODY IN THE WORLD is the solution now, just like it has been forever.

Don't be duped. Demand fair wages for ALL workers and business won't have an excuse to hire undocumented workers. Demand labor laws in our treaties, and they can make a good living in their own countries and won't need to come here. No more band-aids, no more blame games.

[Elwood P Dowd]

9. You're living in la-la land

The corporate-owned politicians and media will never allow fair wages. Those days are over.

[sandnsea]

10. zzzzzz

I love these threads, they help me keep my ignore list up to day. No more people who refuse to be part of the solution.

[Elwood P Dowd]

11. It's simply the truth

The corps own the politicians and the press. You wouldn't wouldn't get 100 votes in the House if you offered a bill to up the minimum wage to $10.00 an hour - the minimum I would call a fair wage. The clowns in charge now. have even gutted the Fair Labor Standards Act

[Telly Savalas]

18. By that logic none of us should care about anything political.

It's all dictated by the corporations and media, so we're powerless. If you believe that, then why are you posting at a political discussion board?

[Elwood P Dowd]

20. Because that's the number one problem

Only a massive backlash similar to the ports issue gets any results. The number one problem in this country is corporate ownership of our politicians and our press. If we can solve that problem, then all the others will be a walk in the park.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

12. I lived in L.A. most of my life. I deeply respect the "illegals".

They do the kind of work that would kill most middle class "gringos" who scorn them. I've had them as neighbors, noisy, raucus, kind, generous, cruel, gentle, all the things that make up humans.

I now live in Washington State and run across many "illegals" who are usually courteous and friendly if approached courteously and treated like what they are. Human beings.

[pitohui]

16. my husband is just as physically hard working as anyone

my husband has two on the job injuries from hard physical labor in the food plants that put food on your table

i am tired of hearing that only illegals work because born heres aren't strong enough

you are supporting the new slavery

i'm sure many of the old-time slaves were also fine people but the fact remains that it was not right of those who wanted to remain slaves after the civil war to do so, it brought down wages for everyone

just because someone consents to be a slave doesn't make him right, it makes him part of the problem, if no one consented to work for peanuts and live in a damn tent then it wouldn't be an issue, but when people eagerly, enthusiastically agree to be slaves, they destroy everyone's quality of life -- it doesn't matter how sweet the individual is to talk to, they are killing us, they are taking food from our mouths

i'm taking three guesses that you have never worked in heavy industry and never will so it's easy for you to sneer at those of us who do or who have spouses or family members who do

i can never respect someone who volunteers to be a slave, i just can't, i may pity him for having such a terrible life this is his choice, but RESPECT? no way

respect is earned by action and the man who chooses to be a slave has not earned respect

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

17. "They" chose to be "slaves"?

Your knowledge of the civil war and it's aftermath is as barren as your belief that people who risk their lives to come here for work are "enthusiastic" about doing back breaking labor.

Most of the freed slaves, after the end of the civil war, were returned to slavery in all but name. With the approval of the U.S. Government. In most cases they had no "choice" about it.

I've had my share of on the job injuries due to the hard work I did in construction and as a mail-carrier. As did my carpenter/longshoreman father who fled Arkansas during the depression. As did my immigrant mother and grandmother who fled poverty in England. My sister lost 3 fingers while working at a paper mill. We were all hungry/homeless poor when we were kids. So spare me the "you don't understand" crap.

What would you have the immigrants do? "Choose" to stay home and watch their families starve?

You've picked the wrong enemy. The capitalists who exploit ALL workers are the enemy.

[FreakinDJ]

15. I have No doubt this WEDGE ISSUE

I have No doubt this WEDGE ISSUE Will hurt the Dems more then the right.

Right Wingnuts will begin a series of “Actual Cost” Fux news shows to rally their base while Dems will simply be split geographically, as you say.

I know Organized Labor entered the issue but I seriously doubt it will bring their membership to the voting table on this issue. Most if not all of the rank and file believe illegal immigration / workers responsible for a majority of their problems.

[Jamison]

19. I'm actually against immigration.

I'm not racist, but I'm against it because of the increased population growth here in this country. I'd really rather not see us become overpopulated with over a billion people like India or China. Something like that wouldn't happen in the short-term, but if we let anyone in this country who wanted to come here, we could have a billion in 75 years or so. Imagine the streets of Little Rock and Indianapolis as crowded as Shanghai or Mumbai are right now.