I KNOW americans who will pick lettuce, clean toilets or do any job.

[Porcupine]

I know Americans who pick lettuce. College educated Americans who picked lettuce yesterday in the rain for my table. I talked to them this morning at the farmers market in my little town. I talked to Americans who picked lettuce, oranges, apples, raised cows and baked bread from a wood fired oven.

I know Mike who will come snake your drain line at 9 pm on a Sunday night if your toilet is backed up. I know Jim who will drive the honey truck out and pump your septic tank in the pouring rain. I know John who will go into a house where the walls move with roaches and spray pesticides. I know another John who will climb into mud under your house where there is surely black widow spiders and fix your pipes. I know Ron who will cut the tree that fell on your house off in a storm. I know dozens of these guys. I am one myself.

There is no job too ugly that Americans will not do it. There is no job that has to be done that is beneath a working American. Americans work the most dangerous jobs in the world, crab fishing, oil rig diving, crop dusting and mining. These are jobs where if you do not die yourself you will surely shake hands with a fellow worker who will.

But Americans expect to be paid fairly for the work they do. They expect to be able to feed and clothe their families and have them live somewhere near their working parents. They expect to get a little health care and maybe the hope of an honest retirement after a lifes work.

What the Bush administration wants to push on us is a permanent lower class. What they want is a set of people without rights that they can use to lower your wages. They want somebody who is so desperate that they will accept minimum wages or less for jobs that kill or cripple workers. What they really want is a slave class.

We cannot give it to them. We must fight any immigration law, any trade law that allows a slave class to exist. We must fight it or accept that we will be threatened with slavery ourselves.

[FreakinDJ]

1. THANK YOU

About time some one spoke up for the working class in America

Illeagal workers is just greedy Corp-Rat America trying to get out of pay health care, social security, workers comp, and taxes.

AMERICA NEEDS TO WAKE UP

[unlawflcombatnt]

38. Well Put

I completely agree. It's just another way to increase the labor force supply to drive wages down even further.
Increased Labor Supply = Decreased Labor "Price." Labor price means wages. This in one of the major factors that have driven real wages down over the last several years.

unlawflcombatnt

EconomicPopulistCommentary

Economic Patriots' Forum

___________
The economy needs balance between the "means of production" & "means of consumption."

[madrchsod]

2. yes there are plenty of americans that do shit jobs

and expect to be paid fairly and treated decently. i work beside with a lady who just got her citizenship,we do the same shitty back breaking labor and she knows more about the government and constitution than many of us do. i don`t really care if they come here but to use them to lower the standard of living for us and them is wrong.
but i did hear somewhere there is a critical shortage of onion pluckers.....

[lovuian]

37. I'm so tired of being called fat lazy American when we are one

of the MOST productive laborers in the world...

My friend was eating lunch with his friends from other countries and they kinda forgot my friend was an American. They were laughing at how lazy and stupid Americans are... my friend made an excuse to leave the table but he knew he had a higher GPA than all of them...

This myth perpetuated by Conservatives is Bull!!!

[standup]

45. Who served fries and mowed the grass and fixed your roof before this?

Americans, American teenagers, poor black/Hispanic American citizens, laid off white collar workers who needed to be blue collar for a while...

[hedgehog]

60. I'm a laid off onion plucker!

Or at least a laid off onion inspector. I'm not too upset, I landed on my feet. I've seen the problem with no enforcement of wage laws where farmers and packers who want to offer a decent wage and working conditions are being driven to the edge because they can't sell their product to the big chain stores at the same prices as the outfits who are paying their workers squat. Race to the bottom, anyone?

[unlawflcombatnt]

103. Onion Pluckers

There's no shortage of onion pluckers, just wages that are too low to hire anyone.

[Oldtimeralso]

3. Amen

Government for the corporation, by the corporation shall not perish until the people wake up and don't buy into the propaganda. Those governing this Great Country want this to become a third world type of system! They want the rich and the poor! their golden rule is "HE WHO HAS THE GOLD MAKES THE RULES" Wake up America

[rocktivity]

4. Nice--but I think you owe me a royalty.

I posted this just a few hours ago:

...if the Bush monarchy was serious about preventing illegal immigration, they would do a better job of sealing the borders and of punishing businesses who hire them. And I'm certain that there are Americans who'd be happy to pick fruit if they were paid a living wage.

:headbang:
rocknation

[Porcupine]

8. I know Americans who CHOOSE to pick fruit.

and do so knowing that they will not make a living wage. I know people who do this because they believe in working with their hands, working with the land and preserving the soil. They believe in making their own decisions and living by the consequences of those decisions.

These people, not the real estate agents and investment bankers are the backbone of America. Punish them and we punish our children and grandchildren.

[mitchtv]

79. These people sound like landowners to me

or at very least tenant farmers. That's a long stretch from the Imperial Valley(115 degrees) in July, there, if the farmers pay a decent wage, they will end up fallow.

[Porcupine]

85. Then maybe we shouldn't grow strawberries in sand

in the middle of a desert? Rodale and others have proved that at least in the lower 48 you can eat fresh greens and have some fruit 12 months of the year. It just requires respect for the soil and the worker.

[mitchtv]

89. that being said, the fact remains

that 300 million people are not being fed by boutique small landowner truck farmers. Having done that myself I know, that you will not find these Americans you speak of picking lettuce for 6.25 per hr, and working under supervision that wil fire them if they are too slow;and these farmers cannot fill the markets, unless they expand greatly( Hire laborers) Don't get me wrong,I love organic food, but your argument is a red herring.

[unlawflcombatnt]

104. Amen

You're making perfect sense. Too bad the Democratic Party doesn't have more like you. By being advocates for illegal immigration, they are advocates for suppression of American wages. What ever happened to the Democrats being the champions of American workers?

[sadiesworld]

105. All eight dems on the senate judiciary comittee voted

in favor of guest worker provisions. The screwing of the US worker is a bi-partisan project at this point. :(

[Carni]

95. I do to and my God look at the celebrity chefs for example!

Someone had better tell Emeril that he made millions (billions?) off of doing something that no American wanted to do.

I know in the professional cooking community he is often viewed with disdain but the fact remains the man started his career when he was 13 and I kind of doubt there was any glamour involved at the time!

[QC]

5. K&R! n/t

[degreesofgray]

6. My stock answer to the immigration question

is to promote living wages. It's not that Americans won't do the jobs that undocumented workers are doing, it's that employers know they can't get away with paying slave wages to Americans; therefore, they circumvent the system by hiring immigrants who are desperate for work, often are uneducated and don't speak English, and are therefore easily exploitable. What we need to end is EXPLOITATION!

[PearliePoo2]

7. I know somebody

who has done some of this this stuff......me.
I have dug ditches, cleaned toilets, wiped up puke, you name it.
I haved worked so hard that at the end of the day I collapsed with my arms shaking.
Yes, I got paid for it, though not enough IMO.
I admit, I knew that this work hopefully would not be my permanent lot in life.
It was something that I had to do at the time, even balancing 3 jobs at once.
Yeah, I felt like a slave.
I know people who are doing the jobs you describe right now and doing them well.
I have the utmost respect for these people.
Good post, nicely written.

[MuseRider]

9. Sounds like a Mom.

Yup I do that stuff for my own family and would have no problem doing them if I needed to for pay.

[nicknameless]

22. "Sounds like a Mom."

Ha! That's what I was thinking!

:D

[OnionPatch]

17. Hey PearliePoo

I'm another one who's done a lot of that sort of work. :hi: I wore hip waders in two feet of muck at the bottom of a sludge pit shoveling mud and have dug ditches, cleaned some really atrocious toilets, you name it.....
I was paid fairly for doing most of those jobs but that was back in the day when we had unions. People who say Americans won't do these jobs are either misinformed or lying. What they really mean is "Americans won't do those jobs for sub-standard wages."

[PearliePoo2]

21. Yeah, been in waders too, that leaked.like a sieve...

I agree with the other posters, most of us have done shit jobs, but we do what we have to in order to pay the rent.
The argument that illegals are doing work that no one else will do is bullshit.
Some employers give a wink and a nod that they "scored" paying a couple of bucks an hour to someone that works their ass off for cash under the table.
Exploitation is the key word.

[Carni]

96. I personally would prefer most ANYTHING over a desk job

Well OK so I wouldn't be into mining or doing anything in sewers, but that's because I am not up for the underground/danger thing...

BUT with that said if given a choice of a desk job, or a job picking produce at the same wage as the white collar job -- I would prefer the manual labor job.

There is nothing more boring or grueling IMO than watching a clock and dealing with paperwork.

I do NOT believe that if Americans are given the chance to actually support their families in a decent fashion that they won't take on any task.

[izzybeans]

10. There has been a permanent lower class.

This much is not new.

[robinlynne]

11. You are so RIGHT!

Thank-you for saying this.

[Blaze Diem]

12. Thank You For This Post.Now someone tell Bush He's Wrong ..

wrong again!
Perhaps in Bush's elitist world of snobbery do they believe Americans won't do the jobs Hispanics will.
He needs to quit saying this..it demeans the American worker..Bush has a habit of kicking the American working class down to shit anyway..

True they need to keep wages low, but do the Hispanic people realize they are being used for this purpose?

Their mere power in numbers could dictate to the Corporations a fairness in labor practices and wages..
Unionize and conquer...???

[C_U_L8R]

13. But will they do it

for less than minimum wage.

Georgie and his cronies just want benefit
business... and people are not part of the equation
to maximize their profits

[katsy]

14. When I was young...

most of my friends picked tobacco leaves in order to save for a car or school. Most of the farms hired kids in our area.

I babysat, cleaned houses my senior year, washed dishes in the school cafeteria, waited tables.

It kept us off the streets, hopeful for a better future, made us responsible with our money, and taught us team work.

[Critters2]

19. I detassled

Everyone I knew detassled. We weren't paid much, and it was hard work. But we did it. I'm not convinced there aren't Americans today who would do it. But if there are workers who will work for even less, the seed companies hire them.

[eridani]

43. It paid fairly well when I did it--

better than being a soda jerk anyway.

[Maru Kitteh]

78. I detassled for $1.76 per hour - which, if you can believe it wasn't the

minimum wage at the time for workers under 16? 18?. I think the minimum wage for teens at the time was $1.50 an hour? so detasseling was a hot job to get. Who does it now? Illegals, of course. My daughter said she would have been glad to detassle if it paid worth a crap plus she's heard horror stories about girls getting groped, fondled and otherwise harassed and assulted in the fields. I have no idea if that's true or just your basic teen urban myth in action.

[BuyingThyme]

15. Yes, thank you.

[Neil Lisst]

16. Hell Yeah! Americans will do the dirtiest work there is.

And it's bullshit to claim otherwise.

[Cobalt Violet]

18. I've known college educated people who picked veggies too.

I hate when people try saying "no American will do that job".


And as if the price of lettuce is based on what the person picking it is paid. :rolf:

[NMDemDist2]

20. exactly!

that is exactly the point. and we used to pay our hard earned wages for products made with pride by our neighbors and we didn't toss them when they broke (which they rarely did) we had them repaired and we cared for them and handed them down to our children.

pieces and parts of our lives that knit our communities together with our labor and with our interdependence. we would no more make a shoddy product for our neighbor as we would feed our family poison.

it was the pride and strength that built our homes, families, communities and nation.

how far we have fallen that we'll allow our neighbors lose their livelyhood so we can have cheap foreign doo dads that clutter our lives and add nothing to our spirits. we turn our backs on community and kill our country with every piece of crap from WallyMart while our Chinese brethren poison their land and water in the chase to make it for us.

Criminal.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

23. I visit many many jobsites where "potentially illegals" who don't

speak a word of english are doing the work of carpenters..... how many American carpenters cannot find work?



ON EDIT: I've washed dishes, picked grapes, worked in an "egg factory", worked in a nursery, (the tree kind), and cleaned toilets when I had to.

[Maru Kitteh]

80. My best girlfriends husband for one.

Poor guy now has ulcers, sleep disorders and bouts with depression because any work he can find, and it's very little, usually works out to about $3 dollars an hour because the whole industry has been overtaken by illegals. He can't provide for his family any more and it's literally killing him.

[EC]

24. We also have to watch things like the GM buyouts

which were made to every UNION member...they will buy them out and then replace them with non-union, minimum wage earners...breaking one of the stongest unions in USA...

[EC]

25. I've got to add, not just cheap labor

but labor that won't report injuries or will work in dangerous conditions, substandard conditions, like bare electrical wires...I worked one job at a ceramics factory that hired mostly illegals, there were holes in the ceiling, bare electrical wires and absolutely no chairs-not even in the lunch room...I walked out in the middle of a thunderstorm when lightening came in through one of the gaping holes in the ceiling and struck the electrical - live wires hanging everywhere and puddles of water on the floor....There are meat packing places that hire illegals that have been severly injured, and no reports filed (like severed limbs or infections from bacteria getting into cuts)...it's bad for all kinds of reasons...not just cheap pay...

[sandnsea]

26. It's a labor rights, human rights issue

Don't let them use this to turn worker against worker. We all deserve a decent standard of living.

[NoAmericanTaliban]

27. What jobs that aren't being outsourced are being insourced by illegal

immigration & legal such as H1 visas. There is no question that they are lowering our stardard of living.

[SammyWinstonJack]

28. Thank YOU!

:applause:

[Pooka Fey]

29. I want to say it too! THANK YOU.

[vogonjiltz]

30. I just saw this in craigslist

<http://chicago.craigslist.org/pol/145272246.html>

[Starbucks Anarchist]

33. Nice catch!

[vogonjiltz]

34. I was looking at craigslist before I logged on here.

I had a feeling that this would show up here.

[lovuian]

31. Well Said!!!

:applause:

[JohnnyRingo]

32. "The jobs Americans wont do"

For $6 an hour you can find an American that will do anything.
I guess that's asking too much.

Since the 70s we've been sending every job we can to Mexico.
Unfortunately for corporate America, some jobs can't be exported. Construction, service, and agriculture remain domestic vocations.

Everthing Buxh does sends money out of this country.
These migrants don't buy cars, refrigerators, or microwaves. They send their money home while employers give room and board.

Freeps scream for a wall on the border.
What good will that do if a corporate congress installs a door to feed the cheap labor market?
This degrades all of our wages.

Some day the workers in this country will rise up and be heard...well before we starve.

[roody]

58. Immigrants buy all that stuff.

Usually the tv is the first thing.

[JohnnyRingo]

91. Indeed, immigrants do keep the economy moving with major purchases

But migrant workers don't have a need for household appliances because they usually are put up by their employers with temporary room and board.
They sleep in the back of the Home Depot here.
They sleep in overcrowded tool trailers at construction sites.

When they send home enough cash to keep their families living for a few months...They return accross the border until next time.
I don't think an entertaiment center or a Buick is considered a necessity

[northofdenali]

35. Great posts, people. We can't let the uber-rich RW neocons

establish a "new slavery".

Today, I have cooked, cleaned, bathed a grown man, cleaned his toilet, washed his clothes, made sure he took his pills, restocked same pills in pillbox, cleaned his cat's box, fed his cats, brushed his (false) teeth -

I'm a personal caregiver. He has Alzheimers.

No, there are few jobs Americans will not do. I cannot personally think of any. But the RW's logic is so they won't have to pay a living wage.

We need to be rid of them.

[Porcupine]

36. Please thank your service next service person for me.

In response to all the people who said thank you I ask that you thank the next service person that comes to your home or office. Too often we are treated as if we caused the problem and we are imposing when we arrive to fix it. The vast majority of us are doing our best to help you out with the tools and resources we have.

So, thank the person for coming. Offer to make space if needed so that they can do their job and stay within earshot. If you feel it is appropriate offer a bottle of water or coffee. Finally as they are leaving make sure to look at the job/area yourself and check the job. Little fixes are easier and less troublesome than callbacks.

Thanks all.

[Raine]

39. YES!!!

This is what I have always said, Americans will do these jobs but they don't want to do it for slave wages and why should they! The Chimp MISadministration wants to have a group of people that will do anything for a pittance so they can reap the benefits off of these people's labor, it's disgusting! :mad:

[Marie26]

40. And Americans can find those jobs

It's the high-paying industrial & manufacturing jobs that have been shipped overseas.

[lildreamer316]

41. Oh.. you mean...SERFS?

We are so fuckin' medieval these days.

[Marie26]

42. You've got it.

A weathlty elite of 10% served by a vast 90% of toiling masses. No middle class to be found. I think Kuwait actually represents Bushco's vision for America - a few fabulously wealthy royal families, and the commoners & "guest workers" existing to serve them.

[Name removed]

44. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Warren Stupidity]

53. Lets get that hate right out in the open.

This post is at least honest.

Welcome to DU. Enjoy your stay.

[earth mom]

55. You are part of the problem if you can't see that ALL workers are being

exploited by big business.

But then, YOU probably have a nice cushy job. :eyes:

[Warren Stupidity]

56. Me? I was being grossly sarcastic.

I refuse to use emoticons. You have to understand the meaning from the words I write. A key here would have been the phrase "Welcome to DU. Enjoy your stay." We all should know by now what that means. Perhaps you meant the short-timer I responded to, the one who was at least honest about his hatred of hispanics, unlike our confused DU'ers who have repressed their hatred, expressing instead their horror at 'illegals' and their desire to build huge walls around Mexico?

[earth mom]

69. Sorry, my mistake, I thought you were replying to the OP.

:blush:

p.s. I like emoticons.

[roody]

59. Pues, ESTUDIE ESPANOL!

[High Plains]

63. What a racist asshole comment.

[malaise]

46. But will Americans do those jobs for

slave labour wages. This immigration issue is complex because there is an element of racism by the xenophobic, but it is the neo-liberals who want cheap labour and no unions. The corporations support hiring illegal migrants because they can escape social responsibilities.

[kurth]

47. Exactly. Look at the CORPORATIONS behind La Raza

"The National Council of THE RACE" (Yep, THE Race)

http://www.nclr.org/section/corporate_board_of_advisors

Established in 1982, the Corporate Board of Advisors (CBA) is made up of senior executives from 25 major corporations, as well as liaison staff from each company. The CBA meets twice a year, and presentations and discussions keep the CBA updated on NCLR’s activities and provide opportunities for dialogue and decision-making about issues and programs of common concern. Throughout the year NCLR benefits from advice and assistance from these closest corporate associates. CBA members also assist NCLR and its network through financial, in-kind, and programmatic support..

[malaise]

48. It's all a sordid mess

destroying people everywhere in the name of greedy corporations and thier well financed politicians. Marx was correct re capitalism. When people everywhere realize that they are all being taken for a ride, they'll drop the peripheral issues and unite to take on these criminals.
Meanwhile they continue to divide and rule at the expense of humanity everywhere.

[IndyOp]

49. I *know* I would - my Dad worked as a janitor at a school....

I have a PhD and I am currently employed as a lecturer at a Big 10 university. Both of the my parents had college educations, but after my Dad lost his job, due to downsizing, he sold shoes and eventually got a job as a janitor. My grandfather mined coal - a filthy dirty dangerous job. Yesterday, a long-lost cousin called me and introduced himself so he could ask if I had any genealogy facts he did not have. He drives an 18-wheeler. Does anyone here think that is glamorous or fun?

I would pick lettuce or clean houses and be proud to do so if treated with respect. If pre-school workers were paid something like a living wage I'd quit the university tomorrow.

Thank you for a great post, Porcupine!

It is about time the American Worker moves to the head of the line - and we can leave the corporate pigs in their trough.

[norml]

50. Curse anyone who says "These are jobs Americans will not do".

If they treated their employees a little better, paid their employees a little more, they'd have people lining up for whatever jobs were being offered.

[tandot]

51. We simply can't do some jobs because we have to "put food on their family"

If you pay a living wage you'll find Americans who will do the job.

[philly_bob]

52. Absolutely! Jobs American will do!

Everybody (except the super-wealthy who have now seized the reins of government) has worked an ordinary, manual, 'menial', 'shit' job at one time or another.

I remember when I wished dishes and delivered pizzas at a downtown Detroit pizzeria forty years ago. Now, technically I'm white-collar. But I've never noticed a dramatic 'happiness' differential from job to job. You may get more respect from one job than another. You may get more money. But those are socially defined measures of worth.

My washing dishes job had a calming, routine effect. (And I completely forgot the job the minute I walked out the door, unlike today; I was able to do plenty of creative stuff away from the worksite.) And there was joking with fellow-workers. There was interacting with customers.

Pay enough money and I'd do it again. Sounds like a nice part-time retirement job. How much is enough? Oh, say $15/hour, with raises for experience.

Offer me $4.50/hour, and I'll just laugh.

[earth mom]

54. Awesome post-the BEST I've read on this issue!

Thank You!

:applause:

[PetraPooh]

57. I agree 100%. It isn't that US citizens don't want these jobs,

its that they won't do them at substandard pay. Seriously we need to also remember that schools are let out in the summer, originally for the purpose of working in the fields through strongest growth and harvest. I wonder if decent wages were being paid, how many summer JD's would be working in the fields instead of doing drive by shootings, selling drugs, and getting high because their aren't enough teen jobs to go around.

[Strelnikov_]

61. Well Said.

And my proposal:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=758165&mesg_id=758417

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

62. Then help unionize the immigrants.

They are looking for the same things you're describing.

And, yes I've worked some of the jobs you've described for less than minimum wage as an American citizen.

[Strelnikov_]

66. And Then The Newly Documented/Unionized Workers Will Be Forced Out

when the union is busted by hiring of the next wave of undocumented workers.

Immigration reform has to be focused on the employers of black market labor.

And for me, black market labor includes exploitation of documented workers from substandard pay, health and safety conditions.

[hedgehog]

64. Guess what, there are jobs Puerto Ricans won't do!

Before you flame me, hear me out. I was talking to a farmer and he was reminiscing about what good workers the Puerto Ricans used to be before they got fed up with the low wages and left. Now he hires Mexicans. He's not a bad guy, he's from immigrant stock himself and he's barely above water trying to sell his crop to the big grocery store chains. I've seen the way they squeeze him to the penny for his produce. Think about that the next time you're in the grocery store.

[Maru Kitteh]

81. Or better yet skip the grocery store as often as possible and go to the

local farmers market! Support your local growers and cut out the bastard companies while enjoying better tasting and far more nutritious food at the same time.

[Strelnikov_]

65. A Story About Some Of Those Jobs We Won't Do

A story of how uncontrolled immigrant labor fills a void that it perpetuates, low wages that make the jobs undesirable due to an oversupply of labor, the classic supply/demand relationship. A story of how the current immigration policy creates a black market for labor, exploiting those who are here illegally, and driving down the wages and working conditions so for legal residents and immigrants the job is a step backward.

Meatpacking jobs (in the midwest) paid a middle class wage ($20/hr) in the 70's. These jobs provided good health care and retirement benefits because they were unionized. As was related by a worker from this era, the social contract was that it was hard, dangerous work that left most workers crippled when they retired, and the compensation reflected this.

Over the 70's and 80's non-union plants were opened, and the unionized plants closed or the unions busted. As compensation was much lower at the non-union plants, U.S. citizens abandoned the industry, and the labor void was filled with immigrant's. Since the supply of this labor is virtually unlimited, compensation and workplace safety has plummeted.

The 70's era worker, in the interview I heard, indicated that there would be no problem attracting U.S. citizens to the industry if compensation and workplace conditions were similar to the 70's.

Here is an excerpt from a study that describes the change in the meatpacking industry in Storm Lake, Iowa:

Meatpacking And The Migration Of Refugee And Immigrant Labor To Storm Lake, Iowa
http://migration.ucdavis.edu/cf/comments.php?id=154_0_2_0

The Hygrade workforce was primarily male and of European descent. Only in its last few years of operation, in the late l970s to early 1980s, did a few women work on the plant floor. The plant’s workforce was from Storm Lake and surrounding communities. Prior to the mid-1980s, Storm Lake was almost exclusively Anglo, and this homogeneity was reflected in Hygrade’s workforce. Many of Hygrade’s workers put in thirty years or more at the plant, reflecting a low turnover. For many, their jobs supported a comfortable, middle-class lifestyle. Average annual incomes were about $30,000, but some senior workers earned up to $40,000 or more in Hygrade’s last year of operation.

In October 1981, Hygrade closed its plant and Storm Lake lost five hundred jobs. Community leaders immediately set about attracting a new buyer for the plant.

In April 1982 IBP announced its purchase of the plant for $2.5 million. After extensive renovation, this became the company's first pork-packing facility (IBP previously had processed only beef.) IBP’s move into pork processing signaled a major transformation of the industry.

When IBP opened its doors in September 1982, its workforce did not resemble the old Hygrade crew. Hundreds of former Hygrade workers applied, but fewer than thirty were hired. IBP would look beyond the Storm Lake community for its laborers. Beginning wages were only $6 an hour, and health benefits become available only after six months on the job. (Today, starting wages are $7 an hour.) The new plant had higher productivity expectations than the old plant. Injury rates climbed, and high employee turnover increased the strain on local labor supplies.

[FredStembottom]

67. I always "why don't you finish the sentence?"

When Cons say "jobs Americans are unwilling to do." I say: "Why don't you finish the sentence....'jobs Americans are unwilling to do AT A POVERTY WAGE.'"

:spank:

[Dr. Jones]

68. EXCELLENT!

THANK YOU!

This encapsulates everything I've been trying to say the past few days.

Refreshing to hear this.

[Klukie]

70. Spot on!!!

I would also add that people of this nation not only want these jobs, but they also need them. Some in this country (especially Bush) want to push the education aspect into this problem. Hey I am all for educating oneself, but lets face the fact that not everyone in this country has the smarts, or desire to become a doctor or lawyer. In pushing for the college for everyone theory, Bush essentially is drawing a line as to what is acceptable work for Americans. What the hell happened to honor and integrity of the working class? There is no job that is beneath me and quite frankly I am ashamed to be part of a society that looks down on those who put in a hard days work.

[DemReadingDU]

71. Exactly!

K&R

[glitch]

72. So many wonderful writers on DU, I am awestruck. K & R nt

[msgadget]

73. Ding!

This is what we need politicians to say. It's not enough for certain democrats to posture about barring 'poor, down-trodden immigrants seeking a living'. If they don't speak to the exploitation they're as complicit as the opposition party. Guest worker programs are just another way to facilitate cheap labor.

Good post, Porcupine.

[buddysmellgood]

74. "What'd you say just a minute ago?"

"They had to wait and save their money before they even thought of a decent home. Wait? Wait for what?! Until their children grow up and leave them? Until they're so old and broken-down that -- You know how long it takes a workin' man to save five thousand dollars? Just remember this, Mr. Potter, that this rabble you're talking about, they do most of the working and paying and living and dying in this community. Well, is it too much to have them work and pay and live and die in a couple of decent rooms and a bath? Anyway, my father didn't think so. People were human beings to him, but to you, a warped, frustrated old man, they're cattle. Well, in my book he died a much richer man than you'll ever be."

-George Bailey
It's a Wonderful Life
http://tinyurl.com/pjun3

[formercia]

75. The first thing they want to do is make them felons

who cannot vote and become part of the permanent underclass.

[Maru Kitteh]

76. My best girlfriends husband can't get work because illegals and the

companies who have hired them have totally cornered the market around here for construction. He went from being a respected and skilled tradesman making a modestly decent living in support of his wife and kids to a guy who now is lucky to find any work at all. When he does find work he's forced to do it for what amounts to about 3 or 4 dollars an hour or even less. He's now suffering from ulcers and a sleep disorder. She's now the sole reliable source of income for her family, and even though she's a college graduate the only work she could find that would keep the family solvent was the overnight shift at Wal*Mart, a job and a company she hates but they're the second largest employer in this little patch of dirt and her kids need to eat. Think this is happening just on the border states? Think again. I live in Nebraska.

I get so sick of the people who WON'T see that illegal immigration is costing good American workers and their families their livelihoods and their dignity.

[newblewtoo]

83. They are everywhere

Just last week I watched a 'Home Depot' roofing crew. Not one break or cup of coffee, just a crew of twelve on a small roof going full bore. Not a word of English was spoken. They were in and out in a day.

[mitchum]

77. Thank you! And kicking for American Labor!

[nonconformist]

82. Very well said. nt

[DanCa]

84. Hire me, I have parkinson's.

I want to work, I don't like being on a fixed income. I'll do any job that is within my limited physical ability to do. I am sure that there are jobs that I can do but most employers wont get passed my handicap, my wheel chair, and they way I visibly shake in public. Cmon hire me. I am begging for a job, I want to feel good about myself for a change.

[Pacifist Patriot]

86. I really wish there were something I had for you.

But as a stay at home, homeschooling mom, my ability to garner a work force is limited. This breaks my heart. I know a lot of people who have so many incredible talents to offer who are brushed aside as "unmarketable" by our society. I am so sorry!

[brer cat]

87. Oh DanCa, my heart goes out to you.

In my antique mall, a new dealer came in last month who has Parkinson's. She made several visits with us before joining because she was so afraid that we would not let her work. We welcomed her! She has tremors and walks with a cane, but she is totally capable of doing the work, and she is great talking with customers. She is actually the second working dealer we have with Parkinson's.

Please don't give up hope! There are places that you will be welcomed, enjoyed, and praised for your great work ethic. You obviously have tried and failed before, but I just know there is a place for you. I'm going to remember you, and ponder on this to see what ideas I can come up with.

[0007]

88. Wish Cesar Chavez or someone with his moxie would come

front and center.

[BrightKnight]

90. You don't need a Cesar Chavez to capitalize on this. -n/t

[hedgehog]

94. The UFW is still alive and active

and got its start uniting native born and illegals against those who would exploit both.

[sadiesworld]

106. Cesar Chavez fought against the practice of importing

mexican strikebreakers. During the 60's and 70's (when actual gains in migrant worker wages and benefits were made), Chavez was an incredibly vocal opponent of illegal immigration. Since the 1980's, largely due to a great influx of illegal labor, most of the gains made by Chavez have disappeared.

The UFW currently represents a only very small percentage of farm workers.

[0007]

97. You gotta be kidding!

Cesar Chavez never capitalized on anyone.

[BrightKnight]

99. I agree with you about Chavez.

Perhaps that was a poor choice of words.

How about this: In the current political climate it would be possible for a few ordinary committed volunteers to organize and empower a large number of vulnerable people.

[Maru Kitteh]

92. Monday morning kick

[jeffrey_X]

93. I worked golf course maintenance in high school.

But then again, there were no minorities in our community.

[ausus]

98. Bush and the Repugs are to be dammned on this, but so is Ted Kennedy.

Today I called Ted Kennedy's office about this matter - this crazy idea that there are "jobs that Americans won't do", and therefore we have to import workers - . I had an argument with his slick Ivy league interning spokesman who insisted that corporations need the workers and there just were jobs that Americans won't do. Unbelievable. I gotta hand it to the PR firm that ever thought up that tack, to creat this meme: "Jobs that Americans won't do.". Like you all, I have done these jobs and will do them again: taxi driver, laborer, dishwasher, dry-waller. This whole idea started about 5-10 years ago, this insisting that there are jobs that Americans won't do. I'm sick of it, and I'm sick of corporate shills in the Democratic party who aren't doing a damm thing to stop it, and I can name 2 of them right here: Ted Kennedy and Barbera Boxer. If you don't believe me, call their office and listen to their response.

[doublethink]

102. You won't get far knocking Ted Kennedy or Barbra Boxer ....

on this board. I'm just saying. How's the weather under the bridge by the way? Welcome to DU, and enjoy your stay. Peace. :)

[sadiesworld]

109. You don't know whether this person is a troll (nor do I)

and it is against the rules to call him out. At this point, s/he appears to be voicing the same frustrations as many others on this board.

What? Are Kennedy and Boxer above criticism?

[doublethink]

100. Question for you .......

Just curious .. did you originally pen this post? I see your from Chico, CA, and the exact same story is on a craig-listing from Chicago. Here's that link.... http://chicago.craigslist.org/pol/145272246.html maybe you should have included that link if it wasn't your writing. Just a thought. Peace. :hi:

[Cleita]

101. What you need to do is unionize. Fighting immigration and trade

laws will not get you decent pay and benefits. A strong union will. Pick up Howard Zinn's book "A People's History of the United States".

The chapters on what working Americans sacrificed to get trade unions during the industrial revolution tells why we didn't become Dickensian like England did during the industrial revolution. Also, the chapter on women's suffrage should tell you what Americans used to do to get social justice.

None of it involved fighting an underclass unless you were one of the business owners who wanted cheap labor or men who didn't want women to vote and have equal rights.

[sadiesworld]

107. Cesar Chavez fought illegal immigration.

Union members have always fought those who crossed the picket line.

[BlooInBloo]

108. Great. Do you know 12 million of them?

Don't get me wrong - I'm not into a slave class any more than you. Just saying that as far as the talking point you're trying to refute, I suspect my response will be the immediate comeback...