War is a racket! A scam...

[undergroundpanther]

The only way to smash this racket is to conscript capital and industry and labor before the nations manhood can be conscripted. One month before the Government can conscript the young men of the nation -- it must conscript capital and industry and labor. Let the officers and the directors and the high-powered executives of our armament factories and our munitions makers and our shipbuilders and our airplane builders and the manufacturers of all the other things that provide profit in war time as well as the bankers and the speculators, be conscripted -- to get $30 a month, the same wage as the lads in the trenches get. Let the workers in these plants get the same wages -- all the workers, all presidents, all executives, all directors, all managers, all bankers -- yes, and all generals and all admirals and all officers and all politicians and all government office holders -- everyone in the nation be restricted to a total monthly income not to exceed that paid to the soldier in the trenches!

Let all these kings and tycoons and masters of business and all those workers in industry and all our senators and governors and majors pay half of their monthly $30 wage to their families and pay war risk insurance and buy Liberty Bonds. Why shouldn't they?

They aren't running any risk of being killed or of having their bodies mangled or their minds shattered. They aren't sleeping in muddy trenches. They aren't hungry. The soldiers are! Give capital and industry and labor thirty days to think it over and you will find, by that time, there will be no war. That will smash the war racket -- that and nothing else.

http://www.unknownnews.org/SmedleyButler.html

A little forced equality for the "elites",
brings a lot of peace for the people.

[JDPriestly]

1. Excellent

During WWII, Roosevelt tried to make war profiteering a punishable offense. I don't know how successful his effort was, but it is immoral to make exorbitant profits from war and death -- even if it is for a good cause -- even if the war is justified. And Bush's war is not.

[PeachyDem88]

2. To Hell With War!

Smedley Butler is an such an admirable figure...

A two-time Medal of Honor winner and a pacifist...

I can't help but think that, if he were young and alive today, he'd be running as a Democrat in the 2006 elections.

:patriot:

Also fascinating to read about is the Business Plot, an alleged conspiracy which Smedley foiled.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Business_Plot

[ellie]

3. I just read this book

the other day! It was great and beyond depressing.

[rman]

4. Smedley Butler Society:

http://www.warisaracket.com

Veterans For Peace - Smedley D. Butler Brigade
http://www.massvfp.org/

Smedley Butler and the coup against Franklin D. Roosevelt.
http://www.nndb.com/people/572/000055407/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smedley_Butler
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Smedley_Butler

[chrisfloyd]

5. The Plot to Sieze the White House by Jules Archer

The Plot to Sieze the White House by Jules Archer

A used copy of this book costs between 400 and 900 dollars.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0006COVHA/103-6347275-7422222?v=glance&n=283155
http://cgi.ebay.com/The-plot-to-seize-the-White-House-by-Jules-Archer_W0QQitemZ4614209933QQcategoryZ378QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

This book has achieved the "rare" book status. Rumor has it that copies are being bought up to erase its existence, ending its stain on reputations on rich families with embarrasing ancestery. In any case, readers will only find it in a few libraries.

But we have it online here. In HTML not PDF as well. ;)

www.chris-floyd.com/plot/





Check this out if you find some time. I cannot post yet - only comment. Not for the sqeamish or children. Isahaqi may as well be called "Iraq Lai"


http://www.isahaqi.chris-floyd.com

[rman]

6. welcome to DU

and thanks for the links
:toast:

[fed-up]

7. Cheapest copy online is "only" $299-

thanks for putting it online, for those of us that can't afford it!

this is a better site to seach for books, note there are duplicate listings as each seller may have listed the book at more than one online bookselling site

http://used.addall.com

http://used.addall.com/SuperRare/submitRare.cgi?author=&title=the+plot+to+seize+the+white+house&keyword=&isbn=&order=PRICE&ordering=ASC&dispCurr=USD&binding=Any+Binding&min=&max=&timeout=20&match=Y&StoreAbebooks=on&StoreAbebooksDE=on&StoreAbebooksFR=on&StoreAbebooksUK=on&StoreAlibris=on&StoreAmazon=on&StoreAmazonCA=on&StoreAmazonUK=on&StoreAmazonDE=on&StoreAmazonFR=on&StoreAntiqbook=on&StoreBiblio=on&StoreBibliophile=on&StoreBibliopoly=on&StoreBooksandcollectibles=on&StoreHalf=on&StoreILAB=on&StoreMaremagnum=on&StorePowells=on&StoreStrandbooks=on&StoreZVAB=on


or here
http://www.bookfinder.com/

http://www.bookfinder.com/search/?ac=sl&st=sl&qi=JXhpfZJekfzO1QIIB4WqgAvBttM_7936506480_2:1:1

[chrisfloyd]

9. Afford it?

Afford it?

Not sure what you are talking about.

the chris-floyd.com link I put up has a link to the book online.

Free.

http://www.chris-floyd.com/plot/The_Plot_to_Sieze_the_White_House_by_Jules_Archer/

[fed-up]

22. I meant thanks for online version since most CAN'T afford $3-400 nt

[newyawker99]

10. Hi chrisfloyd!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[chrisfloyd]

12. Hi New Yawker99

Happy to be here.

[Jose Diablo]

11. From the book, page 136/137

When Roosevelt won the nomination, pledging a New Deal along
with the repeal of Prohibition, Butler wired him, "We salute your
nomination as one of the greatest blessings granted any nation in an hour
of desperate need." He offered to help F.D.R.'s campaign any way he
could, and Roosevelt asked him to get in touch with Democratic
campaign manager James A. Farley, or Roosevelt's chief secretary,
Louis Howe. Butler soon began stumping for F.D.R. In a speech before
the General Society of Mechanics and Tradesmen in New York on July 7
he warned that the government had to be rescued from "the clutches of
the greedy and dishonest":

"Today, with all our wealth, a deathly gloom hangs over us.
Today we appear to be divided. There has developed, through the past
few years, a new Tory class, a group that believes that the nation, its
resources and its man-power, was provided by the Almighty for its
own special use and profit.... On the other side is the great mass of the
American people who still believe in the Declaration of Independence
and in the Constitution of the United States.

This Tory group, through its wealth, its power and its
influence, has obtained a firm grip on our government, to the
detriment of our people and the well-being of our nation. We will
prove to the world that we meant what we said a century and a half
ago-that this government was instituted not only to secure to our
people the rights of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, but the
right to eat and to all our willing millions the right to work."

Plot to steal the White House

Been doing a lot of thinking about Clark. I've been somewhat reluctant about Clark due to his work setting-up that computer system to monitor and collect data in the war on terrorism.

But a retired military man could get a Democrat back in the WH and with a simple majority in each house, maybe the stuff from 8 years of Bu$h could be turned around. It will take longer than 8 years to do it though, to clear the damage I mean.

Clark isn't Butler though. Butler reminds me more of Patton, outspoken, blunt, and Clark is used to dealing with back-stabbing politicians and bureaucrats. I'd say Clark is more like Ike, a guy that can get it done. You know, Clark reminds me of a guy that has that ability to be able to tell someone to go to hell, and make the person think hell would be a nice place to go. Ever meet a person like that?

You know it wasn't the Democrats that started this 'class war'. It was the Republicans, but we will be the ones to finish it, in spades.

Chris Floyd, thanks for putting this up on the net, in book form, been reading it all morning, that Butler, you know he was quite a guy.

[Gabi Hayes]

13. I got that from my library years ago

think I'll call and see if they still have it

[zeemike]

8. That is not a bad idea.

It would be hell to implement but oh so effective in preventing war.
And it also points to the fact that we need to return to a conscripted military. I think it should be 2 years of mandatory public service beginning at18, no exceptions and necessary to enroll in college.

[Cleita]

14. I think conscription for every American citizen is a good idea.

However, going to war should be voluntary. I think this would cut war for profit efforts to zero. Most Americans will go to war to defend their country. There wouldn't be a problem mobilizing troops for a real cause like those who volunteered to go to Afghanistan after 9-11, however, those soldiers weren't counting on going to Iraq as well but many did.

[Jose Diablo]

15. I don't know, Involuntary Servitude doesn't sound right to me

And forced conscription, except in time of a declared legal war, is exactly that, Involuntary Servitude.

On the other hand, I see a real danger of relying on 'contractors' to fight a war thats needed. I'd prefer, civilian soldiers to mercs any day. A large standing army of mercs are as dangerous to democracy as these fascist corporate 'interests'.

And if a illegal war is conducted, and the military was forced to use civilians, you can bet mom and pop back home wouldn't want their children getting killed for the fascist's interests. Conscription as a duty for the young would then to keep the voting population keenly aware of what the agents of the government are trying to pull by waging illegal wars.

[rman]

17. Reasons for the Draft

The short version: IF you go to war, you better don't go with people who have no qualms about killing people and/or people who are there only for the money.
If 'ordinary people' feel there's no good reason for a particular war, then you want to have those people in the army, lots of 'm, at every level. It's a good way to prevent war. Which is why the RW loves to privatize the military.


The longer version
(quoted from The Magistrate)

"The first is that conscript armies tend to reflect in their ranks the political views of the society at large. This is an important check against an armed force being used for usurpation and tyranny. In the twentieth century, there were instances where the refusal of conscripts to obey politicized officers prevented military coups from succeeding. A wholly volunteer force often becomes politically isolated from the views of the general public, and may come to reflect only the political views and aspirations of a particular segment of society or region of the country from which the recruits are predominantly drawn. Such a body, considering itself an elite more patriotic than the general run, is much more easily moved to act in a coup against a democratic government, when it is in the hands of political bodies it disagrees with and despises as not embodying the "true" spirit of the country, as its officers and riflemen conceive these to be. By the same token, in times of widespread popular disconsent, a conscript force is more likely to act in accord with the desires of the people than the government, and refuse to suppress the people, or even move to overthrow the government.

The second follows somewhat from the first, though it is a distinct consideration. It is more difficult to commit a conscript force to war and to maintain it at war, because much greater political resistance will be encountered if the venture does not enjoy a very widespread popularity among the people. This is an important check against a government's engaging in "wars of choice", as opposed to war forced upon it in the eyes of all. An all volunteer force can be more readily committed, because fewer citizens are involved in military service, because the soldiers are drawn from families and regions more likely to approve of martial ventures in the abstract, and because there is a widespread sentiment that volunteers have made their choice and must abide by its consequences in the pinch without complaint. Indeed, the ideal force for true "adventuring" by a government is a body on the lines of the French Foreign Legion, composed of persons who are not even citizens of the land they serve: no one in the country will give a damn what happens to them, and casualties suffered by them will have no political impact whatever.

A third consideration is that widespread military service serves as a sort of social leveller. It brings people from different social stations and different regions into close contact, and breaks down some of the natural isolating factors in society that make it easier for people to hold stereotypical views about those different than themselves. This can serve as a sort of political solvent, making more difficult the cultivation of social and regional rivalries that depend on a certain degree of ignorance about other people for their usefulness to political manipulators. It has in the past put some persons in the way of technical training and educational opportunity that has proved valuable to them in civil life that they might not otherwise have come upon.

A final consideration is that widespread military service diffuses among the people a real knowledge of military practices and caopabilities, and the true nature of military organization and operation. This is valuable in many ways. It is no accident that the worshipful attitude towards the military so widespread in our society today arose only some years after conscription ceased. If you had polled the population of the U.S. in the early sixties, well salted with former conscripts who knew the score, you would have found very few people responding that the military was a very competent organization worthy of great trust. The people today are often and easily deceived about military matters, because they do not know how the military machine operates: they imagine things can be done much more quickly, and much more precisely, than they really can be. This allows deceitful leaders to camouflage preparations for war, and the conduct of war, in ways that would be much more difficult if the experience of military matters was more widespread among the people.

"If you wish for peace, prepare for war."

[Jose Diablo]

19. Yes, a draft is needed

2 years, compulsory duty after HS, both men and women, no deferments. If they aren't healthy then they can count hairs on a caterpillar.

You explained it well rman. I'm sold to the idea.

Edit: Be a good way to round them out and protect society from the more unruly until they mature a little also. Be safer on the road, that's for sure. Add job training and we have a good way to prepare them to enter the work force too. Money spent at and around bases spurs the local economies. It seems to work at many levels.

Open jobs for the elderly too, at Mikey D's.

Off you go Bubba, time to grow-up.

[zeemike]

20. Thanks Rman for the long and short of it

And one thing not mentioned in there is that the military with conscripts could be self contained and operated.
As it was when I was in the Navy in 1960. All the meals we ate were cooked and served by sailors earing what I earned, $98 a month instead of a pizza franchise run by Halliburton. The service was self contained and operated and much more efficient than todays coddled mercenaries.

[Odin2005]

16. You need to do 3 things if you want to kill the M-I complex.

1. Public financing of elections.

2. Nationalization of the millitary armaments industry.

3. Ban No-Bid contracts and the use of mercenaries.

[Jose Diablo]

18. Be kinda hard to 'make money' from war if all that was done n/t

[stickdog]

21. Yes! Nationalize the defense industry! (nt)