Race relations are fucked up in my neighborhood :(

[dionysus]

I just got back from the 7/11, I noticed a family moving into the house next door. I said "Hey, you guys moving in?" "Ya." I asked if they wanted help, they were moving furniture and stuff... "Fuck you" and a dismissive wave is what I got.. it makes me sick :(

[Betsy Ross]

1. Why is it a racial thing? n/t

[dionysus]

6. could just be an asshole thing....

I am white, I just was hurt that I was insulted when I offered to help. I don't know if this is indicative of my neighborhood but it makes me sad.

[Warpy]

42. it's an asshole thing

Sorry you'll be living next door to assholes like that, but assholes like that have a way of wearing out their welcome rather quickly and either getting evicted, getting foreclosed, or moving out 5 minutes ahead of either of these events.

Condolences, been there.

[im10ashus]

How is that a racial issue?

If they said "F you, *insert race here*," I might understand. :shrug:

Which city are you in?

[Cocoa]

2. jeez

how awful. Maybe they're just assholes.

[Rainscents]

3. I'm sorry that happened to you

People can be so cruel nowadays.:hug:

[catmother]

4. why is it racial. did they say "fuck you"?

[dionysus]

8. this is my opinion

but I've never experienced reverse racism before. I offered to help and was met by a disgusted sneer. It makes me feel really bad.

[catmother]

12. maybe they were just tired from carrying the furniture and the

dismissive wave was that they didn't need help.

[gristy]

5. Sounds like you got some winners moving in next door.

From your reported experience it is bit too early to conclude that race relations are fucked up in your neighborhood, though.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

7. Okay. You are white

Therefore in order for it to be racial, they are, I assume, NOT WHTE? You didn't make that clear.

Something just isn't adding up for me here.

[dionysus]

11. Yes, they are "black"

Why is our society so fucked up?

[TallahasseeGrannie]

15. I don't think you can assume the society

is fucked up because you got a hold of a couple of idiots. That level of chip on the shoulder is pretty rare, in my experience.

Try again?

[dionysus]

32. It was a whole family moving, with little kids.

I didn't expect the rection when i offered to help.

[Marie26]

18. Why would you assume it's because of your race?

Maybe they're just rude people. But you've jumped to the conclusion that they were rude because of your race, and then also jumped to the conclusion that this says something about the race relations in your neighborhood (that they have just today moved to). I think those are some unwarranted assumptions - maybe they're just jerks. It happens.

[philosophie_en_rose]

23. I'd be cranky too, if the worth of our entire society rested on me.

Just because an African American person doesn't like you, doesn't mean that they're either racist or indicative of the community at large.

I wouldn't have said "fuck you," but I wouldn't invite you to help. It has nothing to do with race. It has to do with me not knowing you and not wanting strangers in my space to complicate my move.

[Minnesota Libra]

9. That is so TOTALLY screwed up!! nt

[BlooInBloo]

10. Especially when what you described....

... has nothing to do with race...

That is fucked up...

[dionysus]

13. I think it's worse than race relations

Where I live, no one knows their neighbors, their names, ect. It's sick, there is no community here.

[Selatius]

21. That's what nearly all major US cities are like except a few small pockets

Eugene Debs said this about Chicago, but it pretty much applies to any metropolitan city today:

Chicago is the product of modern capitalism, and, like all other great commercial centers, is unfit for human habitation.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

39. I'm surprised to hear this

I was under the impression that urban areas were much more progressive living spaces than small town America!

[Marie26]

43. Progressive, yes. Community, no. nt

[TallahasseeGrannie]

44. Really?

See, here I am thinking the urban areas are like one big block party, co-ops out the wazoo, etc.

Hmm. Guess I'll stay put.

[Marie26]

52. Pretty much

There's lots of people, but everyone's from somewhere else & there's not the same deep-rooted sense of community that most small towns have. People knock it, but I think small towns really do have a lot going for them.

[BlooInBloo]

22. Fine, I guess, your title just seems COMPLETELY misleading....

I have yet to hear anything that even REMOTELY sounds race-related.

Maybe I'm missing something.... :shrug:

Assholes do suck, of course, race-related or no...

[oasis]

14. Were you on your property when you asked them, or on the sidewalk?

[dionysus]

16. I pulled into mt driveway, this is the house next to mine.

I wanted to help them move in.

[dogday]

17. Sounds more like rude relations than race relations

People are tired and miserable these days... Whatever their color... If they were white, you would of said they were rude, this family seemed to be rude unless they used a racial slur against you... Well now you know, leave them alone.. If they want contact, they will be the ones to make the move, if not respect the fact they are your neighbors and go on down the road....

[dionysus]

26. you may be right.

I guess I will leave em alone, but it isn't like the old days anymore, where you know everyone on your street. There is no such thing as community. It sucks when your neighbors (this isn't just these guys) don't even want to know who lives in the house next door. It's horrible.

[dogday]

28. This isn't the old days...

A lot of people with problems out there.. You never know who or what your neighbor is... Best thing you can do is respect them as you would want to be respected and stay out of their lives... Good luck!!

[xultar]

35. So why did you assume race first over the fact that they are rude SOBs?

[Odin2005]

19. I don't see a problem here.

no group has a monopoly on assholeness, I don't think race has anything to do with it.

[Swamp Rat]

20. Good luck!

Bad neighbors can ruin the quality of life, no matter what the colour of their skin.

[Selatius]

24. I don't see how "race" has anything to do with this.

At most, you've demonstrated how alienated people are in this country, especially in urban areas, but I don't see how race applies here unless you could demonstrate to me that neighbor behaving differently because you had a different skin color.

[Name removed]

25. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[FreedRadical]

27. The fucked up thing here is

we have no ability to talk about race. dionysus seemed like he had something more he wanted to say but didn't. I have been wanting to talk to white people about race but can't.:shrug:

[dionysus]

30. our country is to blame

After treating African Americans like shit for so long, it is no surprise they should be suspicious of me. But it makes me sad, when the ppl next door don't want to talk to you.

[xultar]

37. Maybe they would have said that to their uncle too or their mama.

Maybe they are just rude fucktards? Why race? Just cuz they are black?

[dionysus]

47. maybe I was just stunned by the response

however, there is a problem

[fishwax]

59. and so you automatically ascribe it to race?

and race relations, etc.?

Had you posted about "community" rather than "race relations," I doubt many people would agree with you. But the fact that you automatically and immediately see an apparently rude response from an individual as a reflection on their entire race and on race relations is indicative of a blind spot in your view of human nature.

Once we recognize our own biases, we're responsible for rectifying them. If you can take any positive from this exchange with your rude neighbors, it might be to closely examine and revise your own attitudes about race and racism.

[FreedRadical]

41. I live in an upscale suburb

and I am always aware that the people around me kind of brake dawn into distrustful or really cool. But always it has to do with perception mine and theres.

[butterfly77]

46. They may have thought that you were a nosy neighbor

[xultar]

31. Sure you can. Start another thread and say let's discuss Race...

and ask a question or make a statement. But why assume that there are bad race relations because a black person said fuck you to a white guy. I'm sure they'd have said fuck you to their own relatives. If they said fuck you you white mutherfucker then that would be a race problem. But just by saying Fuck you and it is a black to a white person doesn't make it a race issue. Jumping on the assumption of race does make it an issue.

[patdem]

29. My husband, who is black would say the same no matter what color

you are. We moved into a mostly black neighborhood...and before we closed on the house he bought bars for ALL the windows. How he knew exactly how many windows and how many small vs large windows amazes me to this day..this before we signed the closing papers. NO it is not about race relations it is about TRUST..you either TRUST or you don't. They don't know you from adam and maybe you are more interested in SEEING what they HAVE than in helping them move. Not saying you do..but it is more about TRUST.

[American Tragedy]

38. It is entirely possible to politely refuse assistance from a stranger

WITHOUT telling them "Fuck you". I've done it many times before, and I fiercely prefer to just be left alone. Which is why I would simply tell the original poster, "No thank you". Pretty painless.

Now, if the person pressed on and forced it upon me, that would be a different issue. But generally speaking, it doesn't cost a thing to be courteous rather than rude, especially when the person is more than likely totally innocent. Why go out of your way to make enemies?

That having been said, I don't see what it has to do with "race relations" at all.

[AndyA]

33. I watched "Crash" last night

And thought it depicted pretty well how things are. It also shows how everything we do has an effect on someone else, and it just goes around in a circle. Karma is a real bitch if you don't practice the "do unto others" commandment.

I sure don't see any reason for your new neighbors to start off in such a bad way, though. They should be ashamed of themselves, regardless of the color of their skin. I think people today are very disrespectful of others. And they don't like it when people treat them the same way they treat others. I guess they never stopped to think that maybe it's just Karma getting even.

[SCRUBDASHRUB]

34. I don't get how people can be rude when one offers help or

tries to be nice. What the hell is wrong with people? It is totally fucked up. I hope you have a privacy fence. They sound like jerks.

[Marie26]

86. I think there may be more to this story, nt

[Poppyseedman]

36. Bake them some cookies after they move in

lace them with Ex-Lax

[xultar]

40. That is what you do to fuckers! That's how I'd handle it. But I can't bake

[oasis]

45. Don't be surprised if your tires are slashed the next evening. Best to

leave them be and let it go. There will probably be an opportunity to smooth over bad first impressions as time goes by. An act of hostility will only add fuel to the fire.

[Poppyseedman]

54. I'd use the bush doctrine of preemptive strike with shock and awe

People who would tell me to go F*** off the first time I meet them probably need to understand, they will be a stiff penalty to jack around with me.

Let them be the first to make nice after I offered to help and was told to F*** off.

[BlooInBloo]

58. Most idiotic thing I've ever heard.

Why would you ESCALATE things - to the level of assault/food poisoning? - with people you LIVE RIGHT NEXT TO?

Sheesh. The thought processes of some folks...

It's funny on That 70s show mebbe - not so much with strangers in real life who've already told you to fuck off.

Duh.

[xultar]

48. I just got a PM and someone called me an asshole.

I'd just like to say if you want to call me an asshole do it in the thread so people have the BIG PICTURE.
Don't do it in a PM. It makes you look like a kitty cat...you know what I'm sayin. ;)

[dionysus]

53. okay then, but I never wnted to make you an enemy.

my message;
I'd like to talk to you about this before you
To: xultar
Date: Mar-26-06 08:03 PM
falsely paint me as a racist, don't be an asshole


Your response;



Dude, Why did you assume they are racist just because they are black?

BTW why call me an asshole in a PM. If you're gonna be an asshole be a man about it and post it in the tread for all to see!

[xultar]

56. Thank you for posting it. I didn't want to post it myself.

[dionysus]

63. I'm not your enemy,

I was trying to point out how it is where I live, thats all. I grew up in Maine where there are no black ppl, yet the rednecks of the state bitch about "those niggers" ect. And here I am am in mixed neighborhood where these guys are automatically pissed at me... don't you get it?

[xultar]

66. Dude you don't get it. MAYBE THEY ARE JUST RUDE ASSHOLES

Blacks are rude too. Maybe they were on their period?
Maybe they had just broken up with their wife or husband.

WHY DID YOU SAY RACE WHEN IT COULD HAVE BEEN JUST THEM BEING RUDE????

HELLO?

DON'T YOU GET THAT?

[BlooInBloo]

67. I don't. Please explain it.

Just so that everyone can be VERY clear about how you think about such things.

[dionysus]

78. to be clear. In certain places,such as where I live

in certain areas, you can be scoffed at and insulted and shit because you are white. my point is, THIS IS BULLSHIT. comprende? I was sneered at because of what I look like. I hate that.

[BlooInBloo]

83. Maybe you're just ugly?

That's got nothin to do with race...

What did the situation INITIALLY DESCRIBED have to do with race?

I think that's what's bugging everybody here.

Well, that combined with everything else you've said.

[fishwax]

84. oh for the love of god

how do you know it was because of what you look like?

And since you've already said elsewhere in the thread that you really don't know, the question becomes: why did you assume it was because of what you look like? why did you assume that, because they are black and were apparently rude, that they must not like white people?

[xultar]

68. IF THEY HAD BEEN WHITE WHAT WOULD YOUR POST HAVE READ???

Would you said it was a racial issue?

WHAT IF THEY WERE CHINESE?

WHAT IF THEY WERE KOREAN?

WHAT IF THEY WERE MEXICAN?

Would that have been race???

HERRO!?!?!?!

[fishwax]

73. the assumption that it's based on race reflects BIAS, don't you get that?

[xultar]

75. Nope. They don't get that. That is what makes it so DAMN FUNNY!

:rofl:

I can't even go wipe my dogs ass I'm sittin here crackin the fuck up.

:rofl:

[Kingshakabobo]

60. Figures. n/t

[fishwax]

49. and you assume this reflects race relations why?

[fujiyama]

50. That's unfortunate

but then again, I don't see this necessarily being racial.

They could just be ass holes. Ass holes do come in all colors, sizes, shapes, nationalities, religions. Hey, it's probably the most common universal trait people share.

I understand this must be upsetting. You feel especially hurt when you offer to do a good deed and someone actually insults you because of this. You wonder what's the point of being nice in the first place.
It reminds me of "King of the Hill", where the Laosian neighbor moves in (Kahn), and Hank asks one day "Why can't I just hate a person because they're a jerk?"

Also, try to think what your reaction would have been were the neighbors white. Would you automatically believe it's about race?

Welcome to reality. Some people are just mean.

[Fountain79]

51. Just to play devil's advocate...again...

If this individual was a black man and the family was white and he got the same reaction would all of you be rushing to deny that it could be racial?

[dionysus]

55. I'm not articulate enough to answer that.

this country has treated black ppl like shit for so long, it has to blow back. I haven't expressed that well, but that's my point

[Fountain79]

57. Racism is wrong....period

Please don't tell me that black people have any more right to be racist than whites.

[Marie26]

62. How is this racism?

Again. If it was white people, I'd say the same thing - they're jerks. There's a lot of jerks in the world. I don't think there's any way you can assume it was race-based w/o more evidence.

[Fountain79]

65. I am not sure...

If this was racism or not however the statement that the guy made saying that blacks are allowed to be racist had to be addressed.

[xultar]

61. Dude. The fuck you was from a rude ass neighbor. You assumed race

because they were black period.

[Fountain79]

64. Again...

I ask you would it be a different story if the family had been white and he had been black? Would we be judging the situation differently?

[xultar]

69. Yes. It would be different. They would have assumend the neighbors

were just rude assholes. It would have had nothing to do with race.

[BlooInBloo]

71. I'll bite.

Quite possibly "we" would be inclined to judge the situation differently.

Why?

Becuase there's a several-hundred-year-long history of white folks treating black folks poorly at all levels of life. And not vice-versa.

Hence, it wouldn't be terribly surprising if that lack of symmetry AT THE VERY START led to a lack of symmetry in the hypothetical you describe. It's justified by history - what lawyers call "a pattern of behavior".

Duh.


Your turn now - tell us all how history is irrelevant - and it's EXACTLY the same in either direction - and how black people can be just as racist as white people.

As long as you ignore history, everything gets REAL easy doesn't it?

[Fountain79]

79. So...

I don't argue that history is irrelevant, however I do think there is a difference between learning from history and dwelling in it. I'm half Mexican which means at some point in my family's history one of my ancestors very likely enslaved and subjugated the other side of my family. Should I automatically assume that every Spaniard I meet is a racist with intentions of enslaving me? No...cause that would be punishing someone for the sins of their ancestors. I personally think it is more racist to assume that there aren't black people who just as capable of being racist as whites based on quick assumptions and generalizations. That black people can't possibly be held responsible for working behind past bad experiences. Does a white man who was mugged by a black man then have a natural right to be racist against all black people? No. Having an unnatural fear/contempt of others based simply on past experiences is what we are trying to work beyond yes?

p.s.

Should we assume then that because recently a large portion of terrorist acts against us have been muslim that we, based on history, should act upon that fact?

[BlooInBloo]

81. Wow. Every single sentence of yours...

... is filled with deliberately misleading/strawmannish statements. Kudos - that must've taken some work!

[Fountain79]

82. Wow...

And you addressed none of my points and merely fired back with smart-aleck remarks. Good job!

[dionysus]

72. You have insulted me and missed the whole point of my thread

i have seen racism from both sides.... rednecks who hate black ppl for no reason, and then there is a lot of black who are naturally suspicious.

I was trying to point out a bigger problem than this instance, but you called me a Freep, the biggest insult, so damn you.

[xultar]

74. OK. Then the point of your thread is wrong. Just cuz blacks have been

treated like shit doesn't mean us Black folk are gonna run around yelling FUCK YOU to all the white people we meet.
Nor are we going to BLOW up and riot or some shit.

:rofl:

That is what freepers think about black folk. They think there will be a race war. Ain't gonna be no race war. Class war maybe. Race war no.

[dionysus]

76. OK then I apologize.

and you are smart enough to know I don't think that would happen. I was trying to point out things in our society that are wrong. I did not mean to offend you personally.

[xultar]

77. I accept your apology. Now I'm going to tend to my Chihuahuas hind

quarters.

He's a little funky on the back end.

Peace!

[BlooInBloo]

87. You seem to be avoiding the question....

Do you have ANY SPECIFIC reason to believe that the rude treatement you received was because they were black/you were white?

Any at all?

Any?

[xultar]

70. Well this has been fun. But I've gotta wipe my dogs ass. His bung hole

stinks.

:rofl:

[Minnesota Libra]

80. I've experienced reverse racism a number of times when.......

....asking someone of another race "Sir/Ma am, could you tell me the time please?" In a nice way , no hint of sarcasm. If I'm lucky I only get a dirty look or the person walks away without a word.

There have been many other instances where I was very nice to someone of another race only to be met with a truly filthy look, if I was lucky. If I wasn't quite so lucky, the language they chose to use might, on a really bad day, apply to a female snake.

I try to keep an open mind and realize that not everyone is like that but sometimes it can be hard. So I understand what you were faced with.

[BlooInBloo]

88. And here we go again folks! LOL

:rofl:

[newportdadde]

85. Race aside I think its crazy they turned down your offer of help so rudely

I mean just say something like "Naw thats okay we got it" or if family is there make a joke "We got it I like forcing my inlaws to lift heavy objects".

They were really rude people.

[OKNancy]

89. Locking

flamefest and the thread is going nowhere. Points have been made and it's time for all to cool off.

Thanks