"It's not the responsibility of the government to take care of us"

[SoCalDem]

So says Chuck Hagel..

Gee what a guy... There's that "r" word again.,....casually tripping over the lips of an irresponsible senator.

It somehow IS the responsibility of all of us to keep feeding the congressional beast, and feeding it as much at it WANTS.

When on earth will people start standing up and correcting these louses. Social Security is NOT "an entitlement" program.. WE PAY FOR IT..AND PAY DEARLY.

An entitlement program is one where the government GIVES of the public purse, to people who have NOT paid in,money and services that they are entitled to because of need.

Welfare is an entitlement program, because the recipients cannot afford to keep up without it. Food stamps are an entitlement program for the same reasons.

If social security is an entitlement program, then so are whole life insurance policies and 401-ks. We pay today's dollars into them, with the assurance that "when we get old, and need the money, it will be there for us"..

Social security was revamped in the 80's to make sure that the "Greatest Generation" got a nice raise.. (The thinking was that they deserved it) and while we were at it, there was extra put into the withholding so the Boomers would PRE-PAY our own way, so we would not be a burden on our kids.. Well GUESS WHAT?? WE HELD UP OUR END OF THE BARGAIN FOR 40 YEARS, and now the "extra" money that was "STOLEN" from our paychecks for all those years is not only MISSING, but even asking to have it restored to us, is asking for an "entitlement"...


THIS IS WHAT THE ELECTIONS SHOULD BE ABOUT.....

and it should be about

NATIONAL HEALTH INSURANCE FOR ALL
RESTORATION OF FREE POST-HIGH SCHOOL EDUCATION FOR ALL STUDENTS WITH A B OR BETTER AVERAGE
IMMEDIATE "MOON-SHOT" STYLE PROGRAMS TO HEAD-OFF THE GLOBAL CALAMITY WE FACE
ENERGY INDEPENDENCE
ENDING OFF-SHORING/OUTSOURCING/DOWNSIZING


It's way past time that we start concentrating on things that ALL people can relate to.

Everyone gets sick
Everyone breathes and needs water
Everyone needs heat and light
Everyone has only ONE planet to inhabit
Everyone needs a way to earn a living

The narrow, divisive issues that gobble all the oxygen every election cycle are MEANINGLESS and just plain MEAN..

Look at them:

Mexican pawns on the CEO chessboard
Women's "girly bits"
Macho guys & their guns
Battering a poor country who we claim to want to help (we just want their goodies)
Shoving the "God du Jour" (historically speaking) down the throats of any unconverted

NONE of those hot-button issues can ever "really" be solved

Part of the US, we TOOK from Mexico (their people have always been a part of US)
Women will have abortions as long as they have a uterus
Ted Kennedy is not going door to door collecting guns any time soon
The monkey cannot get his hand out of the bottle, until he lets go of the treasure inside it
God is not "ownable" by anyone, and if he exists, is probably fed up with ALL of us..

Change the tune!! Play a song with a good beat, that we can ALL dance to!

[AX10]

1. All Republicans are the same.

Vote em' all out!

[Lefty48197]

2. We want the government to take care of the unfortunate fraction of

Americans who are poor. If Republicans consider themselves to be poor, then they should just pull themselves up by their bootstraps.

[Gabi Hayes]

3. they don't WANT the hot button issues to ever be solved

their emotional appeal-driven campaigns DEPEND on the short circuiting of logical processes to succeed

that is the very basis of successful propaganda

you think the opinion makers running the fascist agenda WANT Roe v. Wade struck down?

not on your (right to) life. that would destroy their most effective straw man

[Disturbed]

7. The RW Agenda

Don't be fooled by any seemingly Moderate Rethugs. They all crave the same things.

The Right Wing Agenda

Abolish &/or Nueter.

Social Security
Medicare
Employer supplied health insurance
Welfare
FEMA
Abortion Rights
Collective Bargaining
EPA
Public Education
Public Housing
IRS

[SoCalDem]

15. add the remaining unions to that list...v/t

[Freedom_from_Chains]

4. Well GUESS WHAT??

"WE HELD UP OUR END OF THE BARGAIN FOR 40 YEARS, and now the "extra" money that was "STOLEN" from our paychecks for all those years is not only MISSING, but even asking to have it restored to us, is asking for an "entitlement"..."

And this is exactly why we don't want government to take care of us because government cannot be trusted to hold up their end of the deal, no mater who is in office. The temptation and corrupting aspects of government are just too great.

[rooboy]

5. That's funny when you realize that the government takes care of him. n/t

[Rainscents]

6. Than, what in the hell we paying income tax for?

Hagal can kiss my ass!

[juajen]

8. How true!! I, too, am sick of SS being called an entitlement.

Why we put up with this is beyond me. I correct this untruth every time I hear it. Also, the statement "There won't be any money left for me to draw mine." makes me furious. We should never let the pugs play with our heads this way. These are their fairy tales, told to disrupt our resolve and help us to lose elections.

[pacalo]

12. If it's an entitlement, we wouldn't be required to pay into it.

It's our money, Mr. Hagel. We earned it.

[TahitiNut]

41. Nonsense. See #12 below and ...

... you would not say the same thing about obtaining an entitlement (i.e. a title) to real property, why would you say it about Social Security? The privilege granted to someone to occupy, use, and sell real property (as well as stock and other derivative forms of 'property') is granted and enforced by government as an entitlement - and it certainly requires payment in the vast majority of instances.

Again ... the word 'entitlement' has been one-sidedly corrupted and memed by the predatory right wing. Let's not fall for it.

[Bigmack]

30. Here's a good example...

B.C. ... the comic strip... is usually RW.

Can't find the cartoon, but it said welfare and SS were about the same.

I started a thread on it when I stopped foaming at the mouth

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=323932

[TahitiNut]

33. Because it IS, quite literally, true.

An 'entitlement' is any benefit, power, or privilege, righteous or not, conferred solely as a function of government and enforced by that government police (law enforcement) powers. By meeting the qualifications in the (government's) law in paying FICA taxes which go to those deemed eligible for benefits, we become entitled under that law to those benefits ourselves.

The root word in 'entitlement' is 'title' - like Duke, Prince, or Landlord. A 'title' to property confers certain powers and privileges in the use of that property: entitlements, not 'rights.'

By far, the most pervasive entitlements accrue to the legal fictions called 'corporations' - entities that exist solely as a function of law, enforced by government. Also insidious is the entitlement of inheritance - which does not and could not exist without the coercive force of government. (Birth certificates themselves establish parentage - the basis for inheritance. It's why 'bastards' were such a big deal during monarchical days.)

'Rights' on the other hand, are NOT created by government and, instead of being enforced by government are (supposedly) 'protected' by our government - except when corruption and predation causes that government to infringe on human rights, usually in favor of entitlements!

The entire stock market functions based on entitlements. It could not exist without the legal creation of variously apportioned and exchangeable interests in property (corporations) and the coercive force of government in enforcing (and inflating) tax-free exchanges of that property (unlike the sales of any other property).

So, when the words 'entitlements' and 'rights' are used, it's important to keep their real meanings in mind.

[pacalo]

9. I'd love to hear them explain their ideas of what the govt's role is.

If the government's role isn't to better & maintain the quality of life for all Americans, then what exactly is its purpose?

[pstans]

10. I'd like to see a Rethug say that in New Orleans

:spank:

[Quantess]

11. so, why are "we" responsible to pay for the military?

I would much rather see "my" tax dollars go toward assisting fellow needy Americans, than to fund some war I never agreed with. In fact, even if the war is called "Iraqi Freedom", and phrased in terms of helping Iraqis, I still would much rather have "my" tax dollars spent on food stamps, medicaid, welfare, social security, schools, etc...ANYTHING that makes life better for fellow Americans, than on the defense budget. I'm pretty steamed that "my" tax dollars are going to Halliburton & cronies.

My response to Chuck Hagel: But, it IS our responsibility to pay senators' salaries, huh!

[pacalo]

13. And that includes giving them those big *raises*, too!

[The Straight Story]

14. Ok then - we are not responsible for them. So quit taking my money.

Suddenly their tune changes...

[KoKo]

16. Agree...you said it here with the smokescreen of narrow and divisive::

The narrow, divisive issues that gobble all the oxygen every election cycle are MEANINGLESS and just plain MEAN..

Look at them:

Mexican pawns on the CEO chessboard
Women's "girly bits"
Macho guys & their guns
Battering a poor country who we claim to want to help (we just want their goodies)
Shoving the "God du Jour" (historically speaking) down the throats of any unconverted

[Disturbed]

17. A reminder.

Liberal Accomplishments


Social Security;

Medicare-Medicaid;

PeaceCorps;

unemployment insurance;

welfare (for the poor andcorporate);

civil rights;

student grant and loan programs;

safety laws (OSHA);

environmental laws;

prevailing wagelaws;

right to collective bargaining (which brought about

paid medical insurance, paid vacations, pensions, etc.);

workers' compensation;

Marshall Plan;

flood-disasterinsurance;

School Lunch Program;

women's rights.

Fair Labor Standards Act, which
established a minimum wage, instituted child labor laws,
and set up time-and-a-half pay for over a 40-hour week.

FHA-HUD with its public housing, urban
renewal and 44 million residential homes (before WWII
almost 70 percent of our nation were renters; by the 1970s
this had been reversed).

farm-conservation
subsidies -- USDA programs,

Farmers Home Administration (the
bankers didn't want to make rural loans),

small flood-control lakes (more than 3,000 in Oklahoma alone),
rural water districts, rural electricity (REA).

The GI Bill was passed, which the Republicans at the
time bitterly opposed.

FDIC and FSLIC, insuring their deposits, and
saved Wall Street with the establishment of the Securities
Exchange Commission.

[KoKo]

25. Yeah...I know that...What?

:shrug:

[struggle4progress]

18. Is Chuck opting out of Congressional health care and waiving his ..

.. federal pension?

[Imagevision]

19. gOVENMENT DID TAKE CARE OF US ON 9-11 either!!

[GoldenOldie]

24. "Us," is the government

The Hagel's who were hired by "Us," to act as our our agent to do what is in the best interests of "Us." The Mr. Hagel's/hired help seem willing to do and say anything to pump up their resume for the job yet once hired they quickly hire on to any corporation to work against the "Us." Talk about being double dippers!

The Hagel's have wasted no time in dismantling every citizen/consumer protection that past employees and others who lived on their "Us," salaries and spent their days and nights working on laws and protections that helped each and everyone of "Us."

[Frank Cannon]

20. One aim of gov: "to promote the general welfare"--from the Constitution

Oh, I forgot. We wipe our asses with that document now. Silly me.

[NMMNG]

34. What are you talking about?

That's just a GD piece of paper! :sarcasm:

[Deja Q]

21. Then who's going to take care of the government?

My Libertarian friends who say the same thing as Chuckiepoo there say that a draft is tantamount to slavery -- and none of them have any desire to sign up at all.

Which is odd, they are for offshoring and the other infrastructure-decimating actions as well.

And for all their diatribes against "liberal colleges", they have no qualms studying in them either. How odd...

[SoCalDem]

42. Until THEIR job gets outsourced and their new job consists of asking

"y'want fries with that"?

[The Backlash Cometh]

22. Good. Someone stop Dick Cheney from stealing us blind!

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

23. I guess we each have to form our own private fire department

police department, private roads, private army, private coast guard, private schools, etc. We can't let these dreadful socialistic institutions endure. Or maybe before firefighters put out a fire, they should check whether the building in flames has its taxes paid up, even if letting the fire burn might destroy half the city.

[KoKo]

26. Our own American "Enterprise Zones." We could do it ....and not WAIT

for damned Corrupt Elections when we know that we are going to lose, lose lose.

Who has time to wait. We need to take action on our own.

[SoCalDem]

40. Sadly, some areas DO just that..

When we lived in Indiana, some areas of the county had to PAY fror private fire protection.. It's probably not that way now, but it certainly surprised me.

[dramachick]

27. "We the people" are the government

Chuck Hagel and the rest of the rethugs need a civics lesson. Dumbass.

[Devlzown]

28. 'Taking care of us', as I see it, is the main responsibility

of our government. If our government cannot secure our liberties, keep us safe from attack, and provide basic services to make our lives easier, I see no reason for that government to exist.

[kentuck]

29. We, the People, are not the government.....

and we have no duty to be our Brother's keeper... ?

[rman]

31. It's our responsibility to take care of one another,

and to organize and coordinate that, we've created the government.

Then evildoers sneaked in the back door and took it away from us.

[IChing]

32. you got my vote on a nominated thread n/t

[rucky]

35. Time to resign, Chuck. Your work here is done. n/t

[baby_mouse]

36. WTF are taxes for, then, you dick?

What a fucking asshole. These shit-for-brains think they can just open their mouths and say whatever they like and that makes it true.

Wankers.

[tomp]

37. hagel is just plain wrong.

it is the responsibility of the government to "take care" of us.

we live inside a social contract. implicit in that contract is the obligation to consider the welfare of the other, of the society as a whole OVER the individual. the government, being part of "us", i.e., within the social contract, has an affirmative obligation to "us", i.e., to society as a whole.

frankly, it strikes me as insane, the idea that an individual would be allowed to accumulate massive wealth while others are starving. society should stop such nonsense. food, clothing, shelter, health care (including psychological care) and education for all BEFORE one dollar of capital is allowed to be accumulated!

[area51]

38. "It's not the responsibility of the government to take care of us"

Upchuck Hagel said:

"It's not the responsibility of the government to take care of us."

Okay, Upchuck. When are you giving up all your rich-bitch govt. perks? <crickets chirping>

Also, if we don't have the right to expect getting our tax dollars back if we need help after a disaster, then we all can stop paying our taxes immediately. Try getting all of your needed taxes from your corporation buddies, Upchuck.

[Festivito]

39. Hmmm. So, under democracy, we are not to take care of ourselves. Hmmm.

Well, so much for individual responsibility.

Oh, can you say buffoon?
Do you really need to say it?
I didn't think so.

[tjwash]

43. That's right, and those nasty poor people better not forget it either.

Now, where did I put that check that the government wrote to Coca Cola so that they could advertise in Brazil...