OK, time to take off the blinders(impact of uncontrolled immigration)

[4freethinking]

Jail Riots Illustrate Racial Divide in California
Rising Latino Presence Seen as Sparking Rivalry With Blacks That Sometimes Turns Violent

February 20, 2006

In almost every arena of public life -- schools, politics, hospitals, housing and the workplace -- African Americans and Hispanics are engaged in an edgy competition, according to interviews with teachers, students, politicians, researchers, government officials, civil rights lawyers, street cops and businesspeople.

snip

Sheriff Lee Baca said the fights were part of an "ongoing gun battle" between black and Latino gangs. "People on the outside are shot-calling to the inside to Latinos to start racial disturbances," he said. Sheriff's officials said a gang known as the Mexican Mafia is believed to have given the green light to prisoners of Mexican ancestry to go after African Americans.

snip

"The movement of Latinos into these communities has been nothing less than a demographic earthquake,"


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/02/20/AR2006022000976.html

Fremont High Calls In Extra Security After Series of Brawls
The campus was quiet Wednesday as officials tried to determine the cause of violence the day before involving as many as 100 students.

March 23, 2006

snip

"Honestly, it was a gang thing that turned into a race thing," Jones said. "We've never had this Latino and black problem. But it started in the jails, it poured into our streets and now it's spilling into our schools."

http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/california/la-me-fremont23mar23,1,2766679.story?coll=la-headlines-pe-california

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Go ahead and flame me, remove my post this issue is not going away by putting our heads in the sand and not discussing it. There are social ramifications to illegal immigration. Deal with it. African American and other communities are being impacted by illegal immigration. This is turning into an explosive situation that has been years in the making.

[mdmc]

1. time to unionize the workforce

:patriot:

[mdmc]

2. these guys get it

[babylonsister]

3. Your post has nothing to do with immigration and everything

to do with gang violence. You're talking apples and oranges.

[ret5hd]

4. to some, violence and ethnicity are always linked...

never mind the facts.

[QC]

6. to some, racebaiting is an appealing way to avoid addressing issues. n/t

[4freethinking]

8. self delete

[QC]

9. I wasn't responding to you.

I was responding to the person who clumsily attempted to racebait you.

[4freethinking]

10. Okay

Let me reach down between my legs and pull my head out and re-read your post.

[4freethinking]

5. Yeap

Violence along racial lines. Are you telling me it's not?

on edit: are you also saying immigration had no effect on this?

[blogslut]

7. Who said anything

...about uncontrolled immigration? Who is suggesting that?

[4freethinking]

11. Then how would you describe our immigration policy?

Because when it comes to illegal immigration it's anything but controlled.

[TomInTib]

12. Get real, everyone. The Mexicans and the blacks have been at

each other since the 70s.

A friend and I were talking just yesterday about when we got back from Vietnam in 73 and all our friends with Hispanic heritage had become "Chicanos" and decided that they were a rung up the ladder from the black people.

This OP is wrong to imply this is a direct result of illegal immigration. It is about racism and it came right out of Texas. The original prison gang was the Mexican Mafia, not the Aryan Brotherhood or the Crips or the Bloods. However, illegal immigration has given the Hispanics a huge edge as far as increasing numbers of people.

To the Hispanic population of the South and West, this is about heritage - not immigration.

Buckle up because it is coming and it isn't going to stop or even slow down.

500,000 in the streets of LA at the drop of a hat. White America couldn't do that if you paid them to show up.

Everyone should face the cold, hard facts.

[babylonsister]

23. You are also bringing the gang issue into the immigration

discussion. I think they're two separate things at this point in our history. I'd hate to confuse anyone!

[TomInTib]

29. The key phrase is "at this point in our history"...

You should know (being in Houston) that this thing is exploding at an exponential rate.

I grew up in Texas with Mexicans and Blacks and watched this grow from a collective existence to a powder keg.

I was just watching a news account on the growing trend of this outrageous Hispanic gang situation.

It will soon permeate (if it hasn't already) most aspects of the Hispanic community.

We can wish for all the good in the world (and believe me, I do) but reality is another thing completely.

It is not going be pretty, 'sister.

I will PM my thoughts on this to you tomorrow.

Peace to all.

Tom

[babylonsister]

43. It's not as dire as you seem to think.

It's not exploding, people live and let live for the most part, :shrug: ???

[radio4progressives]

45. Very Well Put..

I'm afraid some of our more conservative middle class are running scared and rallying around the republican's criminalization policies - which is only going to make everything much worse.. kind of like what we're doing in Iraq.. (gee, imperialism is coming home to roost in more ways than one)...

[singledot777]

13. That was a homophobic post

the words "immigration", "illegal" or "immigrant" did not appear once in the original post.
The word "latinos" appeared 4 times, and Hispanic 1 time, even though a Latino born in the US is an American citizen, and there are many legal resident Latinos in the US. No distinction was made between those groups.
The thread is intended to cause ethnic tension.

[singledot777]

14. Blacks and Hispanics in New York live in harmony

That is a fact. At least in my state.

[TomInTib]

16. Do you know anyone who works in a prison?

Or any cops?

I have hung out in a bar with guys and women who work at Rykers. Know what their biggest problem is?

[RagingInMiami]

19. You're talking about criminals

What the hell does that have to do with immigrants who come here to work?

[TomInTib]

25. Just that the "harmony" is somewhat illusionary.

The shit will hit the fan at some point.

The Hispanic population will soon be looking at the same issues that inner-city Blacks are experiencing now.

I have seen this coming for 30 years, unfortunately.

The Whites are going to try to keep them "down on the farm" just as they did with the Blacks but with more than equally disastrous results.

Again, look no further than what went down in LA yesterday.

A hard rain is gonna fall.

[QC]

15. Do you know what homophobia is? n/t

[RagingInMiami]

17. This is talking about the criminal element between the two groups

Believe it or not, most blacks and Hispanics are not criminals. Treat the criminals like criminals and treat the others as you would want to be treated.

And how is this any different from the old gang wars between the immigrant criminal gangs of the 19th century?

[4freethinking]

26. I don't think that many(maybe the majority)

of the students in the schools that participated in these racially motivated fights are criminals or gang members. That's why you have a big problem and why this can turn into something bigger.

[proud2BlibKansan]

18. There are social ramifications in all societies

and prisons are violent places.

This wasn't merely the result of illegal immigration.

[4freethinking]

21. Are our schools supposed to be like our prisons

when it comes to violence along racial lines? Immigration in the past whether it be illegal or legal has resulted in racial tensions. How does this differ? You have people competing over so many resources in one area that has not kept up with the amount of immigration to that area. So many good paying jobs, housing etc.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

22. So what do you want? A lily white world?

[4freethinking]

24. So what do you want?

Schools chucked full of violence along racial lines? Yeah let's just ignore the events and the problems that contributed to them. They will take care of themselves.

[proud2BlibKansan]

30. And you believe that immigration is the reason there is violence in

our schools? And without immigration there would be no violence? Is that what you are saying?

[4freethinking]

32. Uncontrolled Immigration itself

is not the only reason but it cannot be denied as a contributing factor.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

33. What you seem to be saying is that having more than one race

leads to racial problems. That is scapegoating. What you seem to be saying is that having different races in America contributes to racial violence.

No. Racial problems never take care of themselves. First and foremost we need to educate ignoramuses who operate out of fear be they white, Latino, black or otherwise.

Again...your posts make no sense unless the point you are trying to make is one of ridding America of minorities.

[4freethinking]

35. Making the point

that illegal/uncontrolled immigration does have social ramifications and on going uncontrolled illegal immigration policy is not going to be sanitized of problems that are created in it's wake.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

36. But you haven't proven this issue was created in it's wake

these people are Americans of Latin descent.

Please. Have a point. It makes it so much more interesting for the reader.

[proud2BlibKansan]

28. So what are you promoting here?

A Caucasian only society?

[4freethinking]

31. Deflection. race baiting.

I advocate a solution to a problem that does exist for which there are no easy answers for.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

34. And what solution is that? Everywhere else in this thread

your solution is looking a bit like Germany in '33

[4freethinking]

37. There yah go.

Everyone that disagrees with you is a neo-nazi. What a cop out and a shitty response.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

40. Sorry you are the one tossing out ad hominem attacks while equating

prison violence and racial tensions to illegal immigration. Back in the 60's the most prevalent racial tension was black versus white...would you have been spearheading (pun intended) a back to Africa movement?

I must sleep now...triangulating was so much fun *yawn*

[proud2BlibKansan]

46. No I don't think so

YOUR TOPIC is where the race baiting comes in.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

20. And jails would be such wonderful, peaceful places otherwise, right?

The articles you link to say almost nothing about illegal immigration so I don't see what jailhouse violence has to do with the other.

Racial tensions have always existed be it black/white, white/ Latino, black/ latino or otherwise.

Those racial tensions largely exist because people like to scapegoat other people much like you are doing with your OP... :scared: THE MEXICANS ARE COMING! THE MEXICANS ARE COMING!!

Often times the divisions in prisons are fed by the prison staff as a means of divide and conquer.

Either way, between you screaming illegal immigration when the articles say damn near nothing and another poster screaming "homophobic" when I think they meant to say "xenophobic" this thread is quite bizaar and void of any real valid point.

[leftofthedial]

27. the rub is how one defines "illegal"

on one extreme, we build walls, fences, minefields and gun towers and arm every redneck within 100 miles of the border

on the other extreme, we just grant full rights of citizenship to anyone who walks across the "border."

The right thing to do is probably somewhere in between. What is your suggestion?

[babylonsister]

38. And what to do with the millions of people who have lived here for

longer than I have, and I'm 50?

[leftofthedial]

42. I grew up within 100 miles of the border with Mexico

"illegal" immigrants were ubiquitous and always had been. Without them, local economies would have struggled. They provided not only the stereotypical cheap labor, but skilled craftspeople and labor as well. And many of "them" were lifelong permanent residents. I didn't then, and still don't, understand why they chose not to become citizens. Maybe we need to look to European nations who have had long experience with open, but controlled borders. Still, we have such long, unpopulated borders that our situation is fairly unique.

As with many "black market" situations, implementing a reasonable system that is perceived to be fair might just solve the worst of the problem. That still leaves us with the question: what is fair and reasonable?

[babylonsister]

44. The illegals didn't become legal because, perhaps, at the time,

it wasn't an issue? They were here, doing their thing, all was okay with the world, and now it's a big deal. And why is that suddenly, within the past 5 years? A major orchestrated distraction?

[RagingInMiami]

39. One day they're going to figure it out

One day the Blacks and Latinos in this country are going to realize that they've been purposely set up to kill each other.

It's no secret that Blacks and Latinos receive harsher prison sentences for the same crimes committed by Whites. You're talking as if Whites are so fucking pure when the truth is, they also have their criminal element.

The only difference is, their criminal element is running the country. It is the Criminal White Establishment. The Good Ol' Boy Network.

If you don't believe me, check out what happened in Florida recently where they beat that 14-year-old Black kid to death on video. And as they've been doing for years, they tried to cover it up with a bullshit autopsy.

Did you ever see that video a few months ago in New Orleans where the cops beat the old Black man up?
Do you remember that riot that took place in the Black neighborhood in Toledo after the Neo-Nazis marched through their streets?

Who do you think is funding the neo-Nazis?

Do you remember the Rodney King riots? Guess what? It was Blacks, Whites and Mexicans rioting in Los Angeles that week.

Who do you think was responsible for introducing crack cocaine to minority neighorhoods in this country?

Who do you think was responsible for killing JFK?

RFK?

MLK?

Malcom X?

Who do you think was responsible for trying to bring down Clinton all those years?

Who do you think was responsible for allowing New Orleans to drown like it did?

It won't be long until the Blacks and Latinos realize that they've been set up all along by the Criminal White Establishment.

That will be the day they remove the blinders. And when that day comes, I would hate to be on the side of the Criminal White Establishment.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

41. Close to my own sentiments where prison violence is concerned