'bout time for another 'who's been suicided??' thread??

[bobbieinok]

This is in reaction to the DU thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x761466#761489

--Gary Webb??

--Paul Wellstone??

--etc

[salvorhardin]

1. Don Knotts. n/t

[beam me up scottie]

2. Elmo

[spuddonna]

14. LMAO!!!

Alas, poor Elmo, I knew him well!
O8)

[beam me up scottie]

17. We're on the case.

This picture was intercepted shortly after Elmo was suicided:

[spuddonna]

22. Bert! How could you!??

Nooooooo!!! LOL

[RagingInMiami]

3. Ray Lemme

In 2003, Ray Lemme, an investigator from the Florida Department of Transportation, looked into a contract between Curtis' former employer, Yang Enterprises, and the state. He was later found dead in a Georgia motel room, and it was ruled a suicide. Lemme was the first official from the state to investigate claims that Yang had been overbilling Florida.

"Two weeks before his death, he told me he had tracked the corruption all the way to the top and had just a few loose ends to tie up," Curtis said.


http://www.rawstory.com/news/2006/Programmer_who_alleged_plot_to_steal_0324.html

[Crazy Guggenheim]

4. Gene McCarthy. That guy from South Park.

:popcorn: :popcorn:

On Edit: Buck Owens.

[MADem]

5. South Park? Kenny, or CHEF? n/t

[Crazy Guggenheim]

6. It's the kid, so I think it's Kenny.

:popcorn: :popcorn:

[Neil Lisst]

16. You bastards!!

[salvorhardin]

8. Don't forget Johnny Cash! n/t

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[salvorhardin]

9. You do know that whatreallyhappened

Got its' start by authoring the 'the Clintons murdered Vince Foster' conspiracy theories don't you? Also, WRH's owner Mike Rivero is a proud freeper -- you knew that right? Feel free to PM me for links.

[hang a left]

11. here is another source

The strange and convenient death of J. Clifford Baxter—Enron executive found shot to death




snip>

Neither the perfunctory official probe nor the media coverage has addressed the obvious suspicions aroused by the death of a critically important witness in the investigation into the criminal activities at Enron, the biggest corporate fraud in American history. Baxter quit as vice chairman of the company last May, after reportedly come into conflict with other top executives over the phony accounting gimmicks used to plunder billions of dollars.

The most disturbing account of Baxter’s last days comes from a former business associate who spoke to the New York Times but was not identified by the newspaper. This person spoke with the former Enron vice chairman two days before his death and congratulated him “for being named among those people who complained about Enron.”

According to the Times account, the unnamed associate added that Baxter “was talking about perhaps needing a bodyguard, though I’m not sure where that idea came from.”

That a man only two days away from suicide would be considering hiring a bodyguard defies belief. But neither the Times nor any other media outlet has raised the possibility that Baxter felt his life to be in danger because of what he knew and could divulge about the internal affairs of Enron. Men have been killed for much less.

Baxter was named in a memorandum submitted by Enron Vice President Sheron Watkins last August to Chairman and CEO Kenneth Lay. Watkins warned Lay that dubious off-the-books transactions with private partnerships set up by top Enron officials might cause the company to “collapse in a welter of accounting scandals.” She cited Baxter’s opposition to one of these partnerships, set up by then-CEO Jeffrey Skilling, writing, “Cliff Baxter complained mightily to Skilling and all who would listen about the inappropriateness of our transactions with LJM.”

Baxter received a subpoena from the Senate Government Affairs Subcommittee on Permanent Oversight and Investigation, along with 48 other people linked to Enron and Andersen. Investigators from the House Energy and Commerce Committee had told Baxter’s lawyer that they wished to interview him, but had not yet issued a subpoena.

Representative James C. Greenwood, Republican of Pennsylvania and chairman of the committee’s Oversight and Investigations Subcommittee, said, “It seemed to us that he was a pretty highly placed insider at Enron who had understood exactly what was wrong there.”

snip>

more

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2002/jan2002/enro-j28.shtml

[salvorhardin]

13. You don't discern any difference

Between sourcing a news story from CBS News and sourcing it from whatreallyhappened and Trotskyite Communists? Because that's where your second source is from.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_International

[hang a left]

12. and another source

snip>
Police were criticized for calling it a suicide before investigating, so they kept the case open. The fact that it's still open more than two months later has made the Cliff Baxter case prime fodder for murder conspiracy theories, reports CBS News Correspondent Sharyl Attkisson.

Adding to the mystery is a letter - perhaps a suicide note - that Baxter's wife is fighting to keep private. Groups like the Texas Freedom of Information Foundation want at least part of it made public.

"I believe very strongly that Enron is mentioned in it," said Joel White, the group's attorney.

More questions are raised in police, autopsy and lab reports obtained by CBS News.

Police won't talk while the case is open, so CBS News asked two experts - independent coroner Cyril Wecht and former homicide detective Bill Wagner - to review the reports. While suicide appears likely, both experts say the documents make it impossible to discount foul play.

Asked why he couldn't rule out murder, Wagner said, "because murder can be made to look like a suicide. ... Someone who is knowledgeable about forensics can very well have the ability to stage a murder, commit a murder and stage it to look as if it was a suicide, understanding what the police are going to be looking for."

The experts found several things highly unusual. First the peculiar ammunition: not regular bullets but something called "rat-shot".

"This kind of ammunition cannot be easily or readily traced back to the gun from which it was fired," explained Wecht.

"It's not as frequently used by people for any reason. It's not the type of ammunition one finds in guns - it has a specific purpose: shooting at snakes and rodents in order to get a distribution pattern of the small pellets contained within the nose portion of the bullet. It's not something that a person is likely to have and to use if they intended to kill themselves," said Wecht.

Other unanswered questions include mysterious wounds on one hand and unexplained shards of glass in Baxter's shirt. All reasons to look deeper to rule out murder.

snip>

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/04/10/eveningnews/main505845.shtml

[beam me up scottie]

15. "prime fodder for murder conspiracy theories"

No kidding.

What isn't fodder for them?

[msatty99]

10. A "starburst of ratshot pellets" ??? That's the giveaway

that this 'analysis' is bullshit. "The defect is stellate" just means
that the poor bastard held the handgun very close to the body so that
the force of the gas exploding from the barrel of the weapon made
irregular 'stellate' tears of the skin and tissue.

[SophieZ]

18. a lot of the early analysis of the type of bullet etc was off-base.

However, Cliff Baxter had no good reason to commit suicide.

He had a wife and kids. He was raised quite Catholic, and suicide is not high on the list of do's in Catholicism.

He had tens of millions of dollars, but had quit Enron before things got really bad.

Sherron Watkins had identified him as one of the good guys (or at least better guys).

He was an intense competitor. I talked with an old college friend who said he would play to win, even in a horsing around game of sports. Why give up now?

In the week prior to his death, Baxter had purchased four new pairs of glasses.

The suicide note, which was kept locked up by legal actions for months, turned out to be hand printed, and vague. Even the signature was printed in block letters. A signature expert could not decisively say it was or wasn't his printing. His wife could not supply ANY of his handwriting or printing for comparison, she said. Finally, it seems, some was found.

The coroner ruled it was a suicide in less than 24 hours, before toxicology or ballistics tests could have been done, before interviews could have been completed. The coroner never did give exact levels of Ambien and other things in Baxter's blood, even after legal requests by an outside (conservative) group.

Baxter had several bruises. Did he fight with himself before shooting himself?

The official story has him taking powerful sleeping pills, Ambien, that night. Waking up around 1:30 or 2 am, sneaking into the garage, driving out, barefoot in 44 degree weather, down the street some blocks, stopping, and shooting himself.

Right. A multi-millionaire with military training decides he wants to be found barefoot in sweat pants, at some spot in the middle of the road?

The police (Sugar Land TX) managed to be unable to secure the car after it was towed in to the lot. Bear in mind, there must've been blood everywhere, and the back window was broken in by the Constable when he came by and found the scene. But, the police said the car was contaminated while in the police lot because, they said (I am not making this up) someone opened up the car who was thinking of renting it.

In addition, the police did not preserve evidence that could have been on Baxter's hands -- they did not follow normal procedure and bag his hands.

When the body was discovered, the first decision made after medics could not revive him was to send the body directly to a funeral home, no autopsy. Later, that decision was reversed.

Both the coroner and the police chief retired within a few months of the closing of the case. Coincidence?

[msatty99]

19. I'm sorry, but none of this is evidence of anything nefarious

Nothing about the "he wasn't the 'type' to kill himself means much to
me. Unfortunately, I think the truth is that people who reach the level
of depression and despair are irrational. Being wealthy and competitive
are not bulletproof shields to despair.

The fact that the vehicle was not handled according to the protocol
that should have been in place doesn't mean much. Police departments
all over are so piss poor the public would be shocked if it knew
how bad homicide and suicide 'scenes' are handled. It's almost never like you see it on TV. It just means Sugarland PD is a typical police department.

The retirement of the police chief and coroner. Coincidence? Uhh....Yes.
What are you implying? They were so miserable about having to
keep silent about covering up a murder they quit? That they were
paid off to quit? By who? For what purpose. ...Nope...it's just
coincidence (if its even true).

[MADem]

20. Sure it wasn't birdshot?? Was the guy a lawyer???

(Cue the scary, serial killer music.....)

[rucky]

21. Pat Tillman n/t