I know the U.S. is responsible for the disaster in Iraq, but

[cali]

that doesn't excuse some of the more heinous acts being committed by insurgents. I can understand attacking our forces; they're occupiers. I can't understand targeting civilians. When you detonate a bomb in a marketplace, odds are, even if you're going after a particular religious group, you're going to kill people who are have other religious or ethnic affiliations.

The execution style killings horrify me, but the story that disturbs me most of all is the beheading of a teacher in front of his students. Who the fuck could do that?

We spend a lot of time here excoriating American actions, and undoubtedly there's much to excoriate, but that doesn't excuse the actions of many of the insurgents

I'm having trouble dispelling the image of children having to watch their teacher being beheaded.

[The_Casual_Observer]

1. Did these things happen before the US stumbled in?

Do you think the US is going to be able to stop it?

[LynnTheDem]

2. Answers:

1. No.

2. No.

[cali]

4. No those things didn't happen

and no I don't think the US can stop what's happening. OTH, had Saddam been overthrown in a Shiite coup, it's plausible that a blood bath would have ensued. Certainly terrible things happened under Saddam but it wasn't the out of control, random cluster fuck that exists today.

[Don Claybrook]

3. this is what makes our crime all the worse

We KNEW that things like this would happen. GWB's daddy certainly knew this; that's why he stopped short of Baghdad. The State Department knew about this possibility.

Bush and his inner-circle, along with Tony Blair, ignored these sorts of warnings and they'll have a special place in hell becuase of this.

Of course it's troubling to hear such stories. Of course it's completely reprehensible. But it was just as predictable as it was completely avoidable.

[Burried News]

17. We knew it would happen - we COUNTED on it happening.

Great chaos and the worst elements in society rise to the top and the teenage boys with guns avenge their castrated fathers. We saw it in VN, Canbodia, parts of Africa and Latin America. It is as predictable as Hydrogen and Oxygen exploding into water. All it takes is a match ...

Bastards, criminals, thugs and sadistic reprobates on the other side WE bet there are.

[atreides1]

5. There is no excuse, except that's how this kind of war is fought

Insurgents attack civilians to cause fear, they hope to create an aura of fear that permeates all aspects of life in the areas they attack.

It's called teaching a lesson, the lesson being that if you do not support us then you are the enemy.
Throughout history, insurgents have done this, they have killed civilians as well as those military
forces that they could attack.

Try to remember, there would be no insurgents if our troops were not there.

[cali]

8. Of course you're right

about insurgents committing these kinds of acts since the beginning of recorded history, but I don't excuse it. Those who commit acts of terrible cruelty are still responsible for them. Yes, the US is culpable in a larger sense. That in no way excuses those who engage in terrifying the populace.

[BillZBubb]

6. Who is "excusing" the actions of the insurgents?

They are doing what people always do in religious civil conflicts. That doesn't excuse it, but it is what happens. The Iraqis aren't the first nor will they be the last to do this sort of thing.

But NONE OF THIS WOULD BE HAPPENING except for the actions of the Chimperor. And to anyone with more than one functioning brain cell, what is happening now was guaranteed to be the result of a US invasion. The pRetzeldunce unleashed this horror.

[MadMaddie]

7. The thing is Bush Senior knew that it would be a debacle...

The current administration was warned that if not handled right it could be a disaster....

Any Iraqi known to work with Americans or anything that the Americans have built (schools, Hospitals, government are being killed) On the Randi Rhodes show a guy just called in and said 85 Doctors were killed in 2005.

This region has been warring for hundreds of years...just because America comes in doesn't mean they are going to change the way that they have fought in the past. Saddam ruled by an ironed fist and this is the reason..(I think he needed to be removed but by Iraqi's).

This is a debacle of historic proportions......

Those children that watched their teacher beheaded will blame the Americans for that act and they will grow up hating America....

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

9. As Gandhi said:

“What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy.” - Gandhi

Whether it's some school teacher beheaded by fanatics "protecting" their religion, or some nice college educated guy "protecting" America's "vital national interests" by dropping bombs to dismember or fry someone, the results are the same.

At some point, the people backing the killers will grow weary of the bloodshed and put a stop to it. Hopefully, we Americans have begun to grow weary.

[seabeyond]

13. couldnt have said it better. as horrifying as the thought of beheading

in a classroom as the children ran out, hearing the teacher scream...... i think the same of families being murdered by our troops, because. or women and children being raped, because.... or the bombs that blow in the streets as parents try to find and buy food to feed the children

it is all a horror

it is war

[enigma000]

10. The insurgents still have free will

They choose their actions. Suicide bombers make a choice to end their lives and the lives of others. Bombing a mosque, killing children, and attacking civilians are actions that cannot, and should not, be explained away by banal excuses like, "he had an unhappy childhood" or "he lost his job".

Iraqi politicians can't seem to form a government. These people are grown adults, this is their failure.

Its been asked on DU: what would you do if your country was invaded and occupied? Few here have suggested they would use the opportunity to murder Republicans, torch churches, plant a car bomb at a NASCAR rally or suicide bomb a Walmart. Why is that? Would you expect Republicans to act in this fashion?

[MrSlayer]

12. Well that would depend on if the "Republicans" were helping the occupiers.

If someone invaded the U.S. I would be fighting them and if there was an identifiable group of Americans helping the enemy I'd be fighting them too. That's what is going on over there.

[cali]

14. Quite wrong.

They aren't targeting an identifiable group of their countrymen who are helping the enemy, and much of the violence isn't directed at Americans. It's sectarian in nature or done simply to sew terror. Since when is killing children targeting those who aid the enemy. I find your attitude both frightening and reprehenisible.

[enigma000]

15. And if the foreign occupiers made John Kerry interim President?

And if after "elections" the Democratic Party regained control of Congress and the Senate? And if hundreds of thousands of Americans joined the police force, national guard and military? Would you fight them?

Or the $64,000 question: would Republicans mass murder American civilians, destroy public buildings and execute the wounded?

[Terran1212]

16. Sociology trumps that

[NNN0LHI]

11. I personally still have not gotten over Shock And Awe to be honest n/t