Ever think about living and working in Mexico?

[Jim Warren]

Not talking about being a tourist down on extended holiday with palm trees dreams or other such colonialist notions. I'm talking about a pulling the plug here and going there thing.

I can tell you from experience it ain't pretty. I see threads here frequently about emigrating and Mexico gets mentioned. A lot. Ha. Prepare yourself to live in one of the most repressive and ultimate republican states in the hemisphere. Big diff being a gringo tourist with dough to spend and a return flight in your pocket(or retiree with EFTs) and being a working stiff trying to get by.

Mexico: a good place to be wealthy, a bad place to be poor.

[T Roosevelt]

1. What are your thoughts on...

the new communities popping up in Baja - supposedly a "Little California" without the cost of Southern California.

[Jim Warren]

7. Early on

I did that in the early eighties, Las Playas de Tijuana. Was more or less reasonable then, and still under the radar.

[maveric]

33. Americans cant own land in Mexico. They get a 99 year lease.

But the Mexican govt. can seize the land/property whenever they see fit.
A few years ago several Americans, mostly retired, built beautiful homes outside of Rosarita beach, Baja CA. These homes were right on the beach. Its very beautiful down there. The Mexican govt. wanted the land to build hotels and other commercial enterprises. These poor people were given THREE DAYS to clear their stuff and vacate the property with NO COMPENSATION!
The affected people were mostly retired San Diegans and they lost their homes and life savings. I know this because a co-worker's grandparents lost their beachfront home.
Living in Mexico can be a good deal as long as you dont build and live where that govt. may want to build. Its basically a case of luck.

You have NO rights once you cross the border and no American politician or lawyer can help you in those matters.

[Jim Warren]

40. Among the old time expats in Mexico

there is a saying: Don't bring anything here you cannot afford to lose.

[maveric]

41. Indeed.

Fox Studios has a big facility in Rosarito. Many movies are filed there. "Titanic" and "Pearl", to name a couple. These homes that were seized were on land that Fox was going to use to build resorts and such.

[BlueManDude]

2. isn't the same thing happening here?

isn't the divide between haves and have nots widening right here in america?

[Jim Warren]

8. Yup but pretty much been that way there for a long time. n/t

[movonne]

20. There could be a good chance Mexico could go left...following in

the footsteps Chavez.. Maybe we will have to go there for jobs, like the Mexicans are doing coming here. (I have a feeling though that bush and co. would try very hard to stop this from happening.)

[Jim Warren]

22. Mexico go left?

In my opinion, Mexico will have autonomy to go left when the US goes left.

[demosincebirth]

3. I'd hate to be poor in any country. I'd hate to be poor here.

[Jim Warren]

9. If you know "poor" there,

it's worse. Much, much worse.

[Horse with no Name]

21. I think this is a "relative" statement

Poor is poor anywhere.
Living in the streets, no food to eat, no medical care, digging through garbage dumps. Doesn't matter which side of the Continental Divide you are on.
The thing is, in Mexico, I don't believe that poorest of all get their skulls bashed in when they are sleeping in boxes on the sides of the roads for no other reason than someone just feels superior to them.

[Jim Warren]

24. Generationally and terminally poor is to what I refer,

and believe me there is a difference.
Mexico has one of the WORST human rights abuse records in the WORLD, the poor are expedient, and all is kept very quiet.

[John Q. Citizen]

39. Poor in the city and poor in the country are still different things,

much like here.

But the numbers are so much more staggering in Mexico.

[Jim Warren]

43. Yeah, I guess

Puros Indios in the the country have it the worst I guess.......but then again..... I've seen and stayed in some parts of Mexico City where friends of my wife's family were living that even the Mexico City airport taxi drivers didn't want to take me.

[John Q. Citizen]

45. I always found poor in the country to be better. Food was easier to

grow, and the surroundings were nicer.

More social structure.

Of course it depends on where you are. That's only the generalization I see.

[dogday]

4. I do know people who plan on retiring in Mexico

Taking their life savings and living there cheap.....

[Jim Warren]

10. Wish them well.

Just hope the bank nationalizing de-regs like in the early '80s or something like that shit don't eat them up.

[hang a left]

26. I know people that are retired and/or collecting SS

that live in Baja. They have PO boxes here. The come up to get their checks and do their banking but they live south of Tiajuana.

[Jim Warren]

30. see post #7 n/t

[misternormal]

5. Been there many times... no thank you.

[Warpy]

6. I've been considering a move

but what will be a "get by" income here will translate into a generous income there. I'd be one of the expats who would do very well in that country, and it's very tempting.

I think you're going to see a lot of boomers with minimal pensions and social security for their retirements moving to Mexico, Costa Rica, Belize, Argentina, and other points south in order to stretch their slim funds. There are mail forwarding services to forward their checks to wherever they land. Boomers just won't be able to retire in their own country. They've been priced out by the inflation the gummint tells them doesn't exist and reduced pension and social security payments (the COLAs would have caused the average payout to rise by about 40% had the gummint been truthful about real inflation rates).

Gringo enclaves will be immune to much of the political stuff that's going on in those countries as local authorities will leave them alone to get the increase in jobs and commerce they'll provide for those gringo dollars.

[Jim Warren]

12. From what I know

Costa Rica and maybe Belize might be okay. At leat there you can own property with a clear title.

[SharonAnn]

13. Medicare doesn't cover medical treatment in Mexico. That'll be a

concern for some retirees who have limited funds.

[Horse with no Name]

23. Yeah but you can go to the Doctor for $6

and if something major, fly back to the states.

[hang a left]

32. Not exactly,

you can go to the doctor for 25$ in TJ or Rosarito. However, you don't need a prescription for most medications, and they are way cheaper. Like the poster said up thread, if it is something major, you can come back to the states. Especially if you live close to the border.

[radwriter0555]

56. TJ and Rosarita aren't really MEXICO. That region is just really southern

California.. It's a real shit hole, completely contaminated by the American taint...

The real Mexico isn't where the tourists go, or the Americans. It's in Merida and Campeche... or Oaxaca, just places that are far away from the tourist trade.

You can go to the doctor for $6... it's a lovely country. The people are warm, friendly, compassionate, creative.

I absolutely chose between it and the south of France. I chose France because I just don't care for the tropical heat 24/7. I just need my seasons.

Their laws about gringos not owning land are very wise and designed to prevent the USA from taking over. Smart move.

What's the big deal with a 99 year lease? So long as you can do what you need to do, what does the paper matter? As far as opening a busines, it's no more or less easy or difficult than anywhere else. It just takes learning and knowing how to deal with the local bureacracy. It's more difficult in ITALY, that's for sure.

[400Years]

70. You obviously haven't been to Merida lately

they have malls their with Macy's and all kinds of shit like that.
Parts of Merida look just like Houston.

[John Q. Citizen]

11. Absolutely. I've thought about it. Of course I've spent months at a

time there and speak Spanish. I like the out of the way non-tourist areas.

It's a lot freer in some ways than the US and a lot more oppressive in other ways.

I far prefer the country side to the cities.

[Jim Warren]

15. I traveled there extensively for 20 years.

I moved there from the US permanently in '87. My wife of some 18 years is from there.

We returned to the US in '95, course Bill was in office.

With all due respect, spending some months there ain't pulling the plug. When you do that, things change.

[John Q. Citizen]

34. Well, if you really pulled the plug, you would still be there, right?

Sounds like you were there for eight years straight 1987-1995?

Where abouts were you?

I started going to Mexico in 1972

Since the Salinas de Gatori years things have really gone downhill in Mexico IMHO.

Land and labor are about the only things that are still cheap. Almost everything else is as much or more expensive than in the US. (like vehicles, food, building materials, transportation)

I spent a lot more time than "some months" there. I've spent "some months" there numerous times. You may notice that I still live in the states. So while I've thought about living there I do know that there are definate drawbacks, particularly for an ex-pat without family.

The crime and the poverty have gotten much worse since I first started traveling there. On the other hand there are a lot of things I love about Mexico.

An ideal situation for me would be to teach ESL in the Winters in Mexico (not for the money but to be doing something productive) and spend Summers in the NW US.

There are a lot of places, like DF, that I wouldn't want to live if you paid me.

[Jim Warren]

49. In the south, yeah 8 years straight

with more trips to Guat. than back to the US in that time.
Began traveling there in the late '60s. Moved there in '87 and tried to do business there but just got fed up with the corruption that is a way of life, la mordida, got to pay.....police, immigration, local municipality etc. , the more successful we were the more we had to pay.........and then every six years brings a new administration with new lackeys down the line and you begin from scratch with the new guys all over again.

[Minnesota Libra]

14. Mexico is like some other countries in that yes they have............

.....major economic issues. The difference between Mexico and other countries is that some people want us to solve Mexico's economy by taking on more and more of their citizens each night.

[Jim Warren]

16. Much of that you can lay at the feet of NAFTA. n/t

[Minnesota Libra]

25. Mexico had economic problems looooooong before NAFTA nt

[Jim Warren]

29. Well sure

Was referring to the "solve Mexico's economy by taking on more and more of their citizens each night"
statement.

Mexico had a robust economy in the late 1800s.

There was commerce and a great art scene there in the late 1920s.

There was even a burgeoning middle class there (wife's parents)in the late '70s and early '80s.

[Minnesota Libra]

35. OK, but don't even try telling me it's our fault all that changed. nt

[GRLMGC]

37. Because America can do no wrong

Wanna know why Latin America is economically fucked? Because of US economic interests. There was progressive change and it was fucked over by US economic policy. Central America, the CIA assasination of Salvador Allende among others. So don't try to say that the US is completely innocent of fucking other people over.

[John Q. Citizen]

44. US and Europeon, for centuries now.

[John Q. Citizen]

42. Uh, partially our leader's faults, for sure. Course they had help

from their economic class' counter parts in Mexico.

Have you spent a lot of time in Mexico, Minnesota Libra?

[Minnesota Libra]

47. In repayment they are bringing our wages and standard of living down nt

[John Q. Citizen]

54. No, the Corporations like slaves (or near so) You are blaming the wrong

folks.

That's just what they want you to do. Haven't you figured that out yet?

[Minnesota Libra]

57. Go ahead pass the buck - that's easier isn't it. WTF nt

[John Q. Citizen]

58. Are you suggesting the Mexican government is paying people to

cross into the US?

Or are our businesses in the US paying people to cross the boarder?


Which is it?

Does the Mexican Government pay the wages of people who've crossed from Mexico or are our businesses paying the wages of the people who cross the boarder?

By the way, there are a lot of Guatemalans, Nicaraguans, and Honduran undocumented labor in the US too. You forgot to blame those people and their countries too.

[Minnesota Libra]

61. No, you are the one assuming that I limit my illegal alien views.........

.....only to Mexicans. The truth be known I DO NOT AGREE with illegal aliens REGARDLESS OF COUNTRY, RACE, ANYTHING.

As for the issue of paying Mexicans to come to this country - I wouldn't know about that. HOWEVER, if you have kept up on the news at all then you are no doubt aware that the Mexican President (Fox) has put out maps with advice on how to get from Mexico into the US without being caught and where to find water along the way.

As for who pays the wages of illegal aliens, I think that needs some cracking down on also. Corporations, a small home owner wanting a cheap price to mow the lawn, some one looking for a roofing job, meat packing, doesn't matter. Hire an illegal alien and I think they should be fined at least 20 times what the top price would have been for an American to do the job. It doesn't matter to me whether the original work was paid for in cash, under the table, or in check by a large corporation. Anyone renting to or selling to an illegal alien should have their property confiscated and sold.

As I said, my views ARE NOT LIMITED to any one country or any one race.

The issue of illegal aliens is probably the one and only issue I totally and completely disagree with fellow Democrats/Liberals on.

[John Q. Citizen]

64. I hope you never are faced with the prospects of having to migrate

to survive. I guess I look at people as people and all of our ancestors were illegal immigrants by todays standards. My ancestors were Irish and they came over during the potato famine, i.e., migrated to survive.

I believe immigrants are good for the country. I also believe we need to raise the minimum wage substantial and allow many more to immigrate legally with the prospect of being permanent residents and citizens.

If it were easy to cross, many would return home and return back, because they, of course, have family and friends in the old country. Some would take their wages and go start a business in their home countries.

Being as harsh as possible won't help us or them. In fact it will hurt everyone. That's my take on it.


And anyway, this thread is about Americans migrating to Mexico, not visa versa.

[400Years]

71. NAFTA is a major force behind the immigration issue

[musical_soul]

31. NAFTA.

I keep thinking that we had moved companies down to Mexico only to end up moving them to Asia because the Mexican's education was so bad that they couldn't do those jobs. Not a slam against Mexicans. I hope their educational system gets better. It's just I keep thinking they're not that affected by NAFTA. Am I wrong?

[Minnesota Libra]

36. But we are affected by their economy that we have no control over nt

[John Q. Citizen]

48. We have always controlled their economy. How do you "know" so

much about Mexico?

[Minnesota Libra]

51. We are affected by their economy because we have..................

....half their country here within our borders and more coming every day, and no we don't control anything about Mexico except how many citizens they have left.

As for what I know about Mexico - been there done that one.

[John Q. Citizen]

52. Well yeah, California, (and all that gold!) Arizona, New Mexico, Texas,

Nevada, and more. We do have at least a third of their country here since we stole it. Then we also invaded a couple of times.

I didn't think you knew a whole lot about Mexico. Went to Cancun a few times? Been there done that?

[Minnesota Libra]

60. I shouldn't have to pay for something that happened ...................

......long before I was even a gleam in my Daddy's eyes. War sucks, we all agree with that, but that was then, THIS IS NOW.

BTW, I am not limiting my view of illegal aliens to just those from Mexico - I mean illegal aliens from anywhere.

The illegal alien issue is probably the only issue I totally and completely disagree with Democrats/Liberals on. Sorry!!

[John Q. Citizen]

62. Hey, I was against NAFTA and that was pushed by Clinton. I was

opposed to the Telecommunications bill he signed. I was upset that he let Universal Healthcare Insurence slip down the drain by studying it to death.

I just don't blame Mexico or Mexicans for trying to survive.

So you didn't steal all those millions of square acres of prime farm land and all the riches contained, I know that. But payback is still a bitch.

[Minnesota Libra]

63. This illegal alien issue is nothing but "payback"? That ......

....would probably be the one thing I'd believe considering how many illegal aliens flow over our borders every day. So why don't we just give each of them some money and send them packing??:toast: It would certainly save us a lot of money in the end.:woohoo: Problem solved.:bounce:

[John Q. Citizen]

67. We could give them back the entire South West and compensate for

the mineral wealth. At today's prices we'd be paying forever.

As it stands right now, they pay far more in taxes than they use, they keep farm produce cheap, they are an asset to our country.

I know you don't have the facts on this and are making your assesment on an emotional basis, but that's the truth.

[musical_soul]

65. Good point.

.

[Jim Warren]

38. Nafta opened them up like a melon

It is said for every ton on cheap corn US agribusiness exports to Mexico, a corn protein based society where per capita consumption is almost a kilo per day, two Mexican farmers are put off the land, hence to seek work elsewhere.

,

[John Q. Citizen]

50. Yep.

[musical_soul]

66. I didn't realize that was part of NAFTA.

Thanks for the information. I feel stupid for not knowing that.

[John Q. Citizen]

46. You are wrong. Asia has cheaper labor costs.

[Taverner]

17. Depends

I did a contract IT job down there and did very well.

[Jim Warren]

18. Sure

and you were granted temporary membership there in the top 5% of haves.

[Taverner]

19. True

Don't get me wrong - I'm not saying Mexico is paradise for Mexicans.

It's just as a skilled worker from the US, chances are that if you decided to emigrate - you'd join that 5%.

Personally - NAFTA SHOULD have been more like the EU and require worker's rights protections, environmental protections, etc....

But that's a whole different ball of wax.

[WinkyDink]

27. HELL, NO!!

[musical_soul]

28. It's immoral to live there IMO.

Mexicans are coming up here because there isn't enough work down there. I don't want to go down there to take their jobs.

[radwriter0555]

59. Um you could go down there and create new jobs for them. Imagine that.

A gorgeous climate, very low cost of living, easy to do business in, create jobs, make a lot of money! Affordable labor, affordable cost of doing business, high profit margins.

Gosh, what a concept.

[AnnieBW]

53. Ick, no.

The poverty there is overwhelming. No wonder the Mexicans all want to come up north!

If I stayed in the Western Hemisphere, I'd take either Canada or Belize. They speak English in Belize, but you do have the nasty hurricane problem. I'm looking more at New Zealand. The Maori culture just fascinates me. I've met several Kiwis both at work and in "Farscape" fandom. They're all very cool people.

[zulchzulu]

55. I know a guy who moved to Mexico and is doing very well

He used to be in the internet stock bidness...got sick of it and moved to Baja where he has a beachside restaurant and a couple boats he rents out for fishing...he's never been happier.

[Jim Warren]

68. Well, Baja is sorta like Mexico. n/t

[400Years]

69. living yes, working no

[Clark2008]

72. I've never been, but I'm going this week.

I'll get back to you. We ARE going as tourists, but we do plan to spend one day in the local areas - that's the way to REALLY see a place. I don't like simply sticking to the touristy places, even though this is my honeymoon and we probably won't leave the room that often. :7

But, seriously, I do plan to look around and see how the locals live.