If ALL corporations are forced to pay a living wage, overtime, medical ins

[hang a left]

What happens to the prices of homes, food, ect?

Since these are the jobs that non-english speaking immigrants do.

I am having an discussion with my husband. I told him that the problem in this country is that corporations need to be forced and held accountable to pay a living wage. His position is that it will raise prices. I think it will shrink profits, they still have to price items so that they are sellable.

[knight_of_the_star]

1. Depends on the guys on top

Whether or not they are willing to take pay cuts and cut back on their stock options and the like.

[ourbluenation]

2. Nah - they'll just outsource everything that isn't outsourced already

[sandnsea]

12. Not if we demand our trade laws be changed

And stand up to exploitation of ANY worker, here or abroad.

[0007]

3. The CEO's will whine and cry. I say fuck 'em.

I see no raise in prices just because everyone working is making a livable wage.

[Ron Green]

4. I think that what we think of as a reasonable "life style" is pretty much

unattainable by large numbers of people around the world. For Westerners to enjoy a middle-class life, people somewhere in the world must work at a slave wage.

[serryjw]

21. Ben & Jerry's did it

At 40X lowest paid worker it is doable...at 500X lowest paid worker it is NOT.. Remember it is NOT what you make...It's what you keep. When I grew up a 'middle class' house was 1600 sq feet. Today it is 3000 that has a mortgage, heating/air conditioning costs, up keep, insurance. I bought a great new Toy in 1970 for $2200.Can I buy a great TOY today for $12,000K? The added bells and whistles in cars and houses are causing the problem. WHY do I need electric windows?

[Scout1071]

23. I agree with you on salary. Whole Foods does it as well.

Don't recall the ratio, but I think it is around 40X what the lowest paid worker recieves.

You lose me on the electric windows........are you mad, man?

[serryjw]

24. Hand cranking windows is where you draw the line?

Sorry, I have never had electric windows!

[Scout1071]

37. So you don't know the absolute joy in owning a car with them.

I wouldn't buy a manual window car unless I absolutely had zero alternatives.

I use the feature all the time. It's not that I couldn't roll down my window while driving, it's the other windows. Especially nice to control the windows while my dog is riding in the back. On the days I have to go in the office, I have a long commute. I like to roll down certain windows to get the best airflow on nice days without being blown away or wrecking my car leaning over trying to roll the back window down partially. No thanks.

To each their own. I'm sure there are plenty of things we do agree on. Owning a car with/without automatic windows just isn't one of them.

[theobscure]

29. hit the nail on the head

This is so accurate and encapsulates the cause of American empire. We have attained supremacy largely by default. The point has been reached, however, where we can no longer count on the developing world to acquiesce. Maintaining our luxurious standard of living can only come at the expense of most of the rest of the world living at the subsistence level or below. The neo-cons have made the first major, overt step toward stopping the rest of the world from claiming their share of the world's prosperity at the expense of our gluttonous advantage.

It is long overdue for us to consciously make a choice about priorities. Where does moral propriety land on the scale in relation to economic well-being and stability? Given the state of our shallow culture, I'm not optimistic such a debate in any realistic terms will ever register on the average American's radar screen. Given the evidence of our materialistic culture, I'm not optimistic that even if such a debate were to occur, that moral propriety would place very highly.

In my view, the vast majority of Americans know on some level that the given pretext for the war on Iraq was phony. Yet, they did nothing to stop it then and do nothing now and have only begun grumbling on a superficial level out of annoyance with having to be confronted with the dirty details of it, due largely to the current administration's incompetence in executing their plan.

The fact of the matter is that our nation's history is clear evidence that we have always, unconsciously and through self-deception, placed our economic prosperity above a regard for moral propriety. Will we ever consciously decide that enough is enough?

[entanglement]

34. Welcome to DU, I think you'll fit right in!

:hi:

[theobscure]

35. thanks, but.....

I haven't gotten around to my views about the Democratic party for the last 50 years though. And, my immigration views haven't exactly met with resounding applause. So I don't think I'll look into buying just yet.

[acmavm]

5. The corporations in this country act like there should be no 'cost of

doing business'. They want cheap, if not slave labor, while at the same time demanding loyalty and the right to your life any time day or night, the right to investigate you, run your credit, drug test and make you take a physical (I've been through all of that lately just to get my job). But they don't want to have to pay for the privilege of owning you body and soul. They want cheap labor that's willing to do the work that two or three people used to do.

It doesn't have to drive up costs. But it would eat into their profit.

[spinbaby]

6. It's certainly possible

One example I can think of is Costco which pays a living wage with insurance and still manages to sell stuff at a very reasonable price.

[Faygo Kid]

7. Would be no need for Bush's Pioneers, etc.

Why do you think these incredibly wealthy people fall all over each other to raise money for Bush, and outdo one another? The goodness of their hearts? Perhaps your husband is right. Seven year old kids would work even cheaper. Where do we draw the line? I think no raise has gone on long enough, and is now counterproductive. Does he not feel there is a tipping point? I think we have reached and surpassed it. If he wants to live in New Delhi, I am sure they will welcome him with open arms. Me, I prefer America, at least pre-Bush.

[baldguy]

8. Health insurance should be nationalized.

300,000,000 could be covered each year for the cost of running just one carrier battle group.

[sandnsea]

9. Shrink profits

Has he noticed the price of goods go down since they're all made overseas now? Kind of makes that labor cost idea obsolete.

[xray s]

16. The labor cost argument was always a fallacy

Pure bull.

For example, big screen LCD TV's are made in China at slave labor wages, but still cost $2999 at Best Busy.

Supply and demand sets prices. Not the cost of labor.

[sandnsea]

42. Controlling production sets prices

The whole purpose of corporate control in the first place. They roll out a product and set the price very high, the wealthy buy it. They set it a little lower, to lure in the crowd that has to have the latest thing. Then they start selling features and put it at a price that the top 50% can afford. And guess what. This all happens over the course of about 10 years and the cost of the product didn't shift at all. I know this from building computers. They control the production to control the price and profit. They've got it all down to a fine science and rake in the dough, product after product.

[musical_soul]

10. If it shrinks profits....

then the employers might fire some people.

I like the idea of a living wage. Don't see how it's possible.

[Katherine Brengle]

11. It will increase profits--

if the people have more money, the people can spend more money, and the businesses MAKE more money.

Everyone wins.

The problem is, the corps are winning now without the people winning, so they don't care to change anything.

[sandnsea]

14. That's proven to be true

They just did a study about the states who increased minimum wage and it is actually helping local business because that's where minimum wage workers spend their money.

[xray s]

13. Henry Ford knew the answer

Ford earned the wrath of his corporate bretheren because he raised wages to his workers, because he knew if they had more money to spend they would buy more Fords.

[Strelnikov_]

26. Didn't He Get Sued By His Shareholders For This? n/t

[killbotfactory]

45. Yes, and they won

I think, legally, a corporation must put profits above all other considerations. Legally, of course.*








*unless it the consequences make it more profitable to break the law.

[TahitiNut]

15. When 'owners' collect over 60% of the value of labor ...

... it's no longer a question of paying a fair, livable wage - that's a no-brainer. It's about exposing the vast system of predations that consumes such an enormous portion of the value of labor and exposing a tax/fiscal policy that penalizes labor and shifts the rewards to wealth.

[Cleita]

20. Ring, ring.

TahitiNut speaks the truth.

[GoneOffShore]

17. Calvin Trillins' wife Alice had a good idea.

She called it the "Alice Tax". Set a top limit on income say, $500K per year. You earn anything over that, you get taxed at 100%. Use the money for universal health care, improve the environment, educate everyone.

An interesting thought.

[Yupster]

41. Why would anyone earn over

$ 500 k if it was taxed at a 100 % rate?

Am I missing something here?

It seems that would be a tax guaranteed not to bring in a dollar.

Shaquille O'Neal has arthritis in his big toe. It kills him 5to run and jump at his size. If he could only make $ 500 k a year he'd either

A) go play for a team in Greece or

B) tell the Heat to name fiuve games a year and he'll play in those five games.

How would that help anyone?

Other people besides enterrtainers who make that kind of money are high end salespeople who earn commissions. Limit them to $ 500 k and they make their money and then take the rest of the year off. Again, how is that helping anyone?

It would bring in far less tax money than today, would hurt vendors and other low paid workers at the stadiums, and to what benefit?

[Horse with no Name]

18. Would you be willing to pay an increase in prices

To increase the standard of living for the working class in this country?
As far as I am concerned, this is the direct problem that has fueled outsourcing to different countries. People aren't willing to pay more for manufactured goods made by Union labor in the US, so they outsource it to other countries to protect the bottom line. And as long as American's can purchase their Chia Pets and Dell Computers at cut rates, it will continue.
The immigration situation, however, is different in the fact that we are speaking of direct labor, generally in the service or agriculture industries--not anything that can be sent to India and dealt with via computers.
It is actually a problem that has to find a solution. If we do it correctly, then we will end up paying more for services. In the perfect world, citizens would pay more and CEO's would take less and meet somewhere in the middle to cut the losses.
Then everyone wins and the standard of living increases for the working class.
However, since this isn't the perfect world, the undocumented workers from Mexico will play the villain and Republicans will build more prisons that are owned by Republican croneys.
The standard of living decreases, but everyone is happy because the brown people are in jail or sent back to Mexico.

[Cleita]

19. I have never seen the price of anything go up because of

increased wages. Although there is a cost of production value on every item produced that includes wages and overhead, this isn't what determines the price of the object in the end. It's what people want to pay for an item that determines the price.

If the manufacturers can't provide their goods or services for the price someone wants to pay for it, they have to go back to the drawing board and figure out how to do it.

[sweetheart]

22. the fishing tank and the fish

People have really lost the conception of what a sovereign state is, and what its natural
jurisdiction stands for. Corporations are fish swimming in the aquarium, as are the citizens,
and the sovereign state "is" the aquarium. If all the fish are to have healthcare, then
we put healthcare in the water. Its is not a matter of captialism or communism, putlic or
private, but rather the natural monopoly of governance, the best way to control a problem
like the one you speak, is with government, government provides the bedrock, and when
the king says, "everyone gets a job", then everyone gets one. Its always a matter
of will, and the media expectation projection on to corporations as the vacuous bankrollers
of the new order, not happnin'....

Its a civil agreement, and as we're at a civil war, this agreement is in question, the latter
part of the universal declaration of human rights i use for my homepage. The fish will never
be able to change the oxygen level in the tank, it is not their place or their power... that
is the will of the whole society, to live as warm blooded forebrained...

.... the bubblings of another fish in the big tank.....

[Strelnikov_]

25. It Will Raise Prices. So What. Anything Less Is Explotation

Every worker has a right to a living wage and medical coverage. If we cannot buy as much 'stuff', so our brothers can live with dignity, so be it.

[Ron Green]

44. Except that we've been fooled into thinking that they're NOT our brothers.

The natural state of humanity is fear and enmity, and the logical extension of these is slavery. The market will ALWAYS be thus driven towards enslavement, and only the state can enact a "higher will" that's codified and taught by the church.

As long as the unfettered market (the "id") is in control of the the state (the "ego"), then the church (the "superego") will be perverted as it now is. Only an enlightened citizenry can bring state, church and market into harmonious balance.

The key question for me is: Can masses of people be educated enough, over time, to govern themselves adequately?

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[GRLMGC]

31. Hilarious

What a hilarious post!

[Strelnikov_]

32. Does To Me Too. Sounds Great!!!!!!!

When you get drafted, can I have your car?

[baldguy]

33. And you paid more last year in income taxes than

GM, Ford, Halliburton & Bechtel combined.

[HughBeaumont]

38. You must be bulletproof, know 389 languages,

beat up about 12 guys at once in a bar fight, and also a worthless POS troll who's gonna have a visit in the marble row soon. Dummy.

[tjwash]

28. Um. Look at the prices of houses, food, and gas now.

Look how much they have risen in the past 6 years while these corporations are getting away with bloody murder and been given huge tax cuts to boot.

Your hubbies argument is pure horse-hockey. Our economy is capitalist based, and the middle class is the backbone of capitalism. When you destroy that, as they are doing,there is no one left to buy their products, and contribute to that same economy.

[TygrBright]

30. Maybe, just maybe...

...if prices on cheap extraneous crap go up, people will buy less cheap extraneous crap. Less cheap extraneous crap will end up in landfills, water tables, etc.

Food prices? The food that's really cheap is the processed, chemically-enhanced garbage loaded with high fructose corn syrup and hormones and antibiotics. If we had to pay more for food, maybe we'd make better choices, buying relatively inexpensive grains and legumes, in-season, local fruits and vegetables, limiting the amount of meat in our diets, etc., and take the time to actually prepare them ourselves. Make three meals at once and put two in the freezer for when you need "convenience."

Clothing prices? Please... when was the last time you cleaned out your closet? How much stuff is in there that you'll never wear again? Why won't you wear it again? What will you do with it? If we had to pay more for clothes, maybe we'd think twice about buying that "cute" outfit that will look ludicrous next season, and probably fall apart at the sixth wearing. Maybe we'd buy clothes to last, take care of them, and recycle used clothes among family & friends. Maybe we'd mend a tear or sew on a button instead of throwing the garment away and buying a new one.

Gas prices? Maybe we'd start carpooling, biking, taking public transport to work. Maybe we'd start screaming long, hard, and loud for quality public transit that would actually meet our needs. Maybe we'd think twice about buying a house in the 'burbs that entails a 70-minute commute (on a 'good' traffic day.)

Housing prices? Please. If you're poor, they're already so unaffordable you can't possibly be any worse off, and maybe when masses of people start sleeping in parks and storage units and constructing cardboard shanties in front of City Hall someone will decide to address the affordable housing issue. If you're not poor, maybe you'll think twice about whether you really NEED a mudroom, in-house workout room, cathedral-ceiling 'great room,' and a bathroom for every bedroom plus an additional bathroom on every floor.

Bring on higher prices, say I. My parents lived through the Depression and I learned from them about the REAL value of money. What it can and can't buy, how to stretch a dollar until it plays a high a-flat, and how to squeeze a nickel until it leaks blood. Maybe if prices went up, but jobs paid a REAL living wage, families might feel free to work out an arrangement where one household member contributes their share and then some by doing the things that make for economical, high quality of life home living-- preparing food, budgeting, making & mending, coordinating transportation, and providing high-quality emotional and social support to improve the whole family's quality of life.

No, I'm NOT advocating for sending women back to the kitchen, ferPetesqueaks... it doesn't have to be a woman who takes on that role in the family. It doesn't even have to be the same person from year to year... why not swap off? I just know darn well that the value of an adult spending the equivalent of a full-time job on household maintenance and domestic quality of life is worth at least as much as another full-time income in net terms. And I know that until that is acknowledged and RESPECTED (because it's bloody well worthy of respect, as much as teaching or healing or selling stock or building strip malls or any other economic endeavor in today's market,) I'm whistling Dixie, shooting at the moon, etc. But maybe, just maybe, if economic conditions changed, we might be able to take a few steps in that direction.

/rant

wearily,
Bright

[SPKrazy]

36. It Will Drive Their Manufacturing Operations Out Of The Country

for cheaper labor

oh wait, they already do that

[JCMach1]

39. How about we stop importing all items produced at below a FAIR wage

for that item in the country concerned...

[JCMach1]

40. Do Americans deserve a living wage?

Real vacation time?
Real benefits?

...When they continuously put Republicans and Democrats into office who stab them in the back!

[ladjf]

43. No, they will pay slave-wages in America.