I'm pissed, but the conservatives are real pissed by the immigration bill.

[IsItJustMe]

I don't think the bill that was passed out of the judiciary committee today solves anything. But I hear the conservatives and they are pulling their hair out, knocking their head into the wall, and foaming at the mouth.

[raysr]

1. They'll fall in line

[WilliamPitt]

2. Yup. It's been interesting...

...to watch some here claim that this immigration issue is a "Rovian trick" to get us off on a tangent or something, as if immigration is a GOP strong point. It isn't. I think Rove and the boys are SCARED TO DEATH of this issue.

Why?

Because so many GOP officeholders from the West and South have been demagoguing on this issue for years and years. The GOP base despises open immigration, in no small part because of the noise they hear from their reps. So here comes George pushing a soft ("soft' by GOP base standards) immigration bill. Two choices are presented: get behind the boss or defy him.

This issue has the possibility within it to blow the GOP coalition to smithereens. We may wind up seeing another bombthrower on immigration run in '08, a la Pat Buchanan, who would siphon votes away from the main GOP candidate and require him/her to spend money defending themselves, a la Bush in '92 and Dole in '96.

That would be a good thing.

[BrklynLiberal]

6. Any fear they may have will disappear as they watch the rising divisivness

among those on the opposite side.

[blondeatlast]

16. That's why we need to realize that there is no perfect solution and put

our heads together to offer a comprehensive plan that deals with it.

I don't think anyone on DU likes illegal immigration. If we'd just shut up and listen to each other (and I'm as guilty as anyone), we might be able to somewhat appease everyone and kick some serious elephant tail at the same time.

[BrklynLiberal]

17. I thought this was a good start at a solution

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=769653&mesg_id=769737

[DanCa]

19. I agree. We need a humane immigration policy.

I am tired of coasting on the extremes of this issue.

[TomInTib]

8. Any move away from the status quo will be viewed with extreme

prejudice by Hispanics and their supporters. For that matter, both sides.

I believe the Dems should step back and allow the GOP to destroy themselves for the next few decades in the South and Southwest.

[Renew Deal]

12. Bush's proposal is soft.

It's almost bizarre. Are there any pukes in hispanic districts? Wouldn't they be at major risk? I would think so.

[Virginian]

13. The Rovian trick is for the future, Too bad it is bombing in the present.

On edit: === Too bad for Rove, but good for us.

The idea is to get the young Latino/Latina future voters to lean toward the George Bush Republicans in the future when they are old enough to vote.
Rove is aiming toward the children of the illegals, not the illegals themselves. There are a lot of them and they do not have a history of commitment to either party. Rove wants to grab them now.

The emotions of politics. You know how it is, you like both candidates and haven't made up your mind which one you want in office. You get into the voting booth and that lever gets pulled for or the button gets pushed for or the card gets punched for the Democratic party's candidate. When you can't decide, play it safe. Go with the party you know.

====
We need to "head this off at the past". (Bozos) We need to make sure the uncommitted voters are on our side.

It isn't an all or nothing issue. We don't have to give citizenship to the illegals. Many of them don't want to become "Americans,"* they just want to work here. Give them the workers card or whatever so that they are legal, tax paying aliens, but don't make it part of the path to citizenship. My employers have always looked for my papers to prove I am legal to work in the US. Require that from all employers. Issue steep fines if they are not in compliance.

Lots of people apply for citizenship when they really don't want anything more than unlimited access to jobs. I have seen this at the H-1B side of the influx of workers, also.

*(Most of the Latinos/Latinas are already Americans -- Central Americans.)

[John Barrett]

14. It would have been a good thing......

if the Senate would have looked out for the interests of US of A workers instead of BIG CORPORATE America who has just been revitalized with a fresh source of cheap labor meat.

[blondeatlast]

15. It may well be Rove's worst nightmare come real.

Any way he spins it, it pisses off some faction of the Republican base.

The corporatists vs. the union laborer vs. the bread and butter church types vs the old money who use them to clean their houses.

Not to mention, border state Dem governors like Richardson and mine (Napolitano) have been sticking it to the Feds on the issue without alienating their very large Hispanic/Latino populations. It's made W more than a little uncomfortable.

Pardon the way too overused smiley, but I'm going to enjoy this: :popcorn:

[waiting for hope]

3. November is just eight

months away.....:party:

[BrklynLiberal]

4. This is just another Harriet Miers ploy. They are going after higher

stakes.

[Teaser]

5. An excellent opportunity for our side

This is a great weapon.

If the bill passes with the changes intact it will lead to more Democratic voters and a conservative base that is unmotivated come November.

If the more conservative bill is what ultimately passes, angry Latinos will help sweep the GOP from power.

I'm liking this.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

7. Oh, That Has Nothing To Do With The Bill, That's Just Typical Symptoms Of

Lunacy and Mental Impairment. Just wanted to clear that up. :)

[Lexingtonian]

9. Public Policy 101: no Republican bill ever solves a problem

But yes, moderate Republicans basically side with Democrats and Indies against the hardline 'conservatives' on the issue. It's a wedge. But then again, all social and economic issues wedge Republicans these days.

Yeah, the 'conservatives' know this bill is their last ditch effort and last major chance to keep the U.S. a majority white country in the long term.

[Renew Deal]

11. How many pukes are in hispanic districts?

That's what I want to know. I know Kyl is. What's he saying?

[Lexingtonian]

18. Kyl's a hardliner

Arizona is probably the next majority minority state, in around 2015 iirc. Average white people there consider this a horrible thing. McCain is the most moderate Republican in their Congressional delegation, now that Kolbe is retiring; everyone else- Kyl, Shadegg, Hayworth, etc- is wackos.

Districts and states where Republicans could lose because of this...maybe some House Reps in central California, Heather Wilson in Albuquerque, a couple of districts in Texas, two or three House Reps in Florida, maybe a seat or two in Colorado. Maybe Porter's House district around Las Vegas. Kyl is probably the only Senator that can really be affected by this bill...but more because the bill splits his party, and enough moderate Republicans in Arizona might stay home, having deciding all the crap is pointless meannes and stupid and a useless attempt to turn back the clock.

I think the effect will show up more in the '08 elections than this year. California Latinos rallied somewhat against Prop 214 in '94, but losing on that really took all the ambiguity and passivity out of them about the GOP- it being the old white racist peoples' party. They really rallied in 1996 and 1998

[Renew Deal]

10. If this bill gets a vote

It's an automatic loss for the right. Their issue is dead. I am almost surprised that this has gone this way so far. I think that this will not let it come up for a vote in the Senate to keep the issue alive.

A passing vote in the senate likely ends this.