The rise of "illegal immigration" and the decline of Unions

[maxrandb]

Or another way to frame the debate is that "Market Forces have Created the Illegal Immigration Problem"

I firmly believe that the rise in illegal immigration is directly proportional to the decline in Union membership. Take a look at what Unions do.

- They provide and demand higher wages for employees.
- They demand workplace safety and protection.
- They push for and strive to procure medical coverage and long-term pension protection/benefits.

Illegal immigration is a way for "empolyers" to avoid any "messy Union" problems.

Anyone ever look at the rise in illegal immigration and compare it to the decline of Unions.

Repukes want to kill Unions because they want no rules on what employers can do, and no standards. Their argument against Unions is that "the market will set the standards".

Illegal immigration is a perfect example of the "market setting the standard".

Repukes made this bed, now we need to strap them to it and thrown it off the bridge.

Want to keep illegal immigration in check? Strengthen the Unions!!!!!

[slackmaster]

1. Five demerits for "quotation mark abuse"

:hi:

[JDPriestly]

2. Good post.

[upwidems]

3. Unions and Illegal Immigration

Great post!

[John Q. Citizen]

4. The UFW has organized undocumented fields workers for a long

time now, depending on what crops they work in.

And given the extraordinary protests they look ripe to be organized.

By legalizing the undocumented we will strenthen unions. By keeping them illegal, we will weaken unions.

[EFerrari]

7. Precisely. n/t

[Bridget Burke]

15. I'm sure many anti-immigrant DU'ers don't remember Cesar Chavez.

If they do, I'm sure they were angered that "Those People" dared to speak out.

[endarkenment]

18. yeah it doesn't fit their model at all. can't have that.

[Radio_Guy]

5. K & R

Perfectly stated.

[havocmom]

6. "... they want no rules on what employers can do" BINGO

ILLEGAL EMPLOYERS do not want anybody defining any part of the business arrangement they have with employees. Employees with legal standing have legal rights in the workplace.

The issue is currently on Page One of US news because the GOP needs another wedge issue to divide and distract us while they finish up their work on taking American away from the workers AND professionals and turn it ALL over to the top 0.5%.

The GOP can't run on their record. They want us to stop talking about Iraq and the mess of health care (particularly for the elderly and poor). They want us to stop talking about the economy. This is this year's gay-marriage dog & pony show.

But under it all is the fact that the real problem with illegal immigration is ILLEGAL EMPLOYERS! When was the last time you saw a bunch of white fat cats panic and scurry when somebody yells that the INS was pulling a raid? At worst, they just have a disruption in the day's work.

I also firmly believe corporations want to starve off US workers until we beg for environmental laws to be repealed so businesses can afford to hire us again. It isn't just laws pertaining to workers and conditions they wanna get rid of. They want TOTAL deregulation. They will let people starve to get their way.

[CrispyQ]

9. Your last paragraph about corporations is spot on.

"They want TOTAL deregulation. They will let people starve to get their way."

We must put these behemoths back in their place or we will become their slaves.

[acmavm]

8. Watch out. You're gonna be called a Xenophobe or a

racist. I can tell you that from personal experience.

That's just the half of it. The Utopians have all the answers. They just don't want to explain how it works.

[endarkenment]

14. If your solution is build a wall around Mexico you are a racist and

a Xenophobe. If your concern is that we will all be speaking Spanish, you are a racist and a xenophobe. I have seen all of these opinions expressed here on DU on this subject. When they are expressed I will respond with my objections.

[donkeyotay]

10. Good point. If the GOP wants to distract from their dismal record

with a sudden concern/debate over the consequences of a policy they've supported for years, reframe the debate. This IS about the race to the bottom, the loss of jobs, the loss of union protection, the rise of the CEO class and it's control of Washington. They say immigrants are doing jobs Americans won't take... won't take at what price? It's the wages being rejected more than the work itself. The federal minimum wage is STILL $5.15(?).

[Jim Warren]

11. Yes, but.........

I think the mistake the unions make and have made especially since the eighties is that they never developed any sense or promoted solidarity with the workers cause regardless of where the wokers are. US unions must be first in line to demand fair wages and work place safety and environmental standards, in Mexico specifically and everywhere generally. It really is the only durable answer to illegal immigration and out-sourcing.

[ourbluenation]

23. At the rate the union busting is going on the only unions left will

be for industries that can't be outsourced. Teachers, federal and state employees, etc...

What did these people think? Bust up a union shop and then complain over the horrible wages. Helllooooo!

Righties HATE, I mean HATE the teacher's union. Probably becasue it ain't going anywhere.

[endarkenment]

12. directly proportional to the decline?

"I firmly believe that the rise in illegal immigration is directly proportional to the decline in Union membership."

Then by all means present your evidence. You have made a statistical argument and implied a correlation. Back it up.

[TahitiNut]

13. Treating human labor as a commodity is what leads to ...

... phrases like "supply and demand" and "market forces." It is an insidious corruption of how we treat human labor. Rather than use our economic system as a mechanism for cooperation and mutual exchange of goods and services, where the objective is social cooperation for the common welfare, the system has been hijacked for the benefit, not of those who labor, but those who accrue greater and greater wealth from the labors of others. It's become an obscenity.

[havocmom]

17. Welcome to the New Dark Ages, fellow serf

Be thankful for the gruel and bow when the great lords pass...

You got it right, TahitiNut. It is an obscentiy. And it is made more grotesque by the fact that those doing the abusing and exploiting are the same ones claiming the higher morality.

Any day now, I expect news that Loki has revealed himself when all electronic mediums malfunctioned and he came on laughing at us all.

[TahitiNut]

19. The obscene 'beauty' of Trickle Down Economics ...

... is the the hungriest and most deprived are most willing abandon civilized rules like laws and equity ... for the SMALLEST crumbs from the Master's Table. At the same time, the Master confiscates larger and larger portions of the harvest that these hungry people's labor creates.

Old-time colonialism has been perfected. If anyone thought the Age of Monarchs was good, they'll love where we're going.

16. you are also unlikely to protest anything

such as workplace benefits and wages, if you are an immigrant.

My great grandfather was a indentured servant in this country and had to work as a slave until he could buy his way out. And I think that was very common in the 1800s.

[Neil Lisst]

20. People who hire illegal workers do so because it's better for THEM

Both economically and from a power standpoint.

They love having workers who can't fight back, can't say squat to them about anything - whether it's safety, health, work conditions, or whatever.

They'd rather have an illegal worker who can't speak English than some college student or minority citizen who can speak English, and does have some concept of a citizen's rights in America.

Unions have deteriorated partly because of the influx of illegal workers, but also because governments have increasingly moved away from union work and allowed contractors who use illegal labor.

[TahitiNut]

21. Exactly.

These are also the forces who keep the (legal immigration) lid on the pressure cooker (Mexico) that has resulted in the leakage (and eventual explosion?) that drives their wheels of Commerce for the benefit of the owners alone. Workers who can't vote. Workers who can't report FLSA violations. Workers who can't protest. Workers who are afraid of unions. Workers who'll work off the clock. Workers who'll let 80% of the value of their labor be confiscated by the 'ownership class' instead of the 60% that the rest of us 'tolerate.'

In the meantime, the 'ownership class' keeps stoking the fires under that pressure cooker (Mexico) by increasing the economic inequities in that country.

It's a wet dream for a corporatist who can't off-shore the work - and instead must import slaves. (But slavery is illegal, right? Nawww... it's just 'immigration' according to some.)

[Marie26]

22. Union-busting

Unions died far before the illegal immigration problem. Southern states looking for jobs created "right to work" laws that allowed corporations to create union-free businesses. So, corporations began flowing to these southern states. Ohio, for example, lost many manufacturing plants to states like Florida where the unions had less power. When they needed to build a new plant, corporations chose a "right to work" state. This created a rush to the bottom, where each state tried to give more incentives to corporations by slashing union power, slashing labor regulations, & corporate taxes. In the end, these corporations simply moved off-shore, where they didn't have to follow any regulations at all. But the states are now left w/no worker protections, weakened unions & decreased tax revenue.

"Union-busting" was done through many different measures, long before illegal immigration became an issue. If we deported all illegal immigrants tomorrow, I don't think that would solve the problem. Look at West Virginia, where most mines now prohibit miners from joining unions. This contributes to the recent accidents there - but that's not because of illegal immigrants. It's because corporations now have so much power that they can do whatever they like. If you don't like it, they'll just move overseas. We've got to change the laws to favor workers once again - strengthen the labor laws & union protections, & discourage outsourcing. Unless this is done, punishing illegal immigrants won't do much to help workers in this country.

[maxrandb]

24. But don't increased wages raise all boats??

My only point is that, if the Unions were strong, and if there was strict enforcement of the laws for employers, that farm workers job might pay $10 and hour vice $4.

Everyone talks about the increase in the price of goods that higher wages create, but no one talks about compensation of those in the top .05% of America. Everyone assumes that if you increase the workers wages, you'd have to increase prices. Why not reduce the CEO and top management compensation, instead of passing the cost onto the consumers.

Someone above asked me for proof of my opinion. I don't have proof that weakened Unions have led to more illegal immigrants coming to this country. I'm not quite sure where you would begin to collect that data. But...I do firmly believe that Repukes argue against Unions, because they say that we don't need them. Their argument is that the Market Forces will set labor, pay and safety standards.

It looks to me like the Market has set the standard, and that standard is "we need cheap labor". Where does cheap labor come from? It comes from South America for one.

In the golden age of the 50's, top CEO's were paid on average 5-10 times that which was paid to their highest paid hourly employee. What that meant in a nutshell, was that the CEO of GM was paid 5-10 times that which the 20 year line chief was paid.

Today, CEO compensation is OBSCENE. It's more like 2,000 to 3,000 times the amount paid to the hourly employee. The rights answer is for the worker to surrender more pay, more benefits, more pension, work longer, work harder, or take less time off. The answer is never the more reasonable one of "hey, maybe the CEO can get by on 10 times what we pay our employees, vice 3,000 times what we pay them.

and most CEO's do a shitty job, run the company in the ground, fire, or let-go thousands of employees, raid pension funds, and walk away with $$$$$$ Millions.

Napoleon said it best; "Religion is what keeps the poor from killing the rich".