Official NSA Spying Hearing Thread # 2

[liveoaktx]

Thread number 1 here

[liveoaktx]

1. I can't STAND Hatch

[helderheid]

3. Hatch is up which means I am required to direct all y'all to his opponents

website and ask for a donation - Pete Ashdown is GOOD PEOPLE and cares about keeping the internet free:

www.peteashdown.org

GET RID OF HATCH!!

[TayTay]

2. So hatch is going after FISA itself?

Saying it diminished the power of the Prez to do his job. (I have heard this theory. Bypass the question of illegality and just declare that the PRez could do what he wanted anyway. The Constitution said so and always has. Sigh!)

[liveoaktx]

4. FISA a constitutionally *infirm* advisory position (Hatch)

[liveoaktx]

6. So Hatch wants a toothless advisory FISA panel (isn't it already?)

[LeftHander]

10. Hatch is a Facist

I have not been able to stand this asshole since Clinton impeachment....

He shills legal for the White House...is a giant fucking hypocrit...the law is only the law when it furthers his career or his nasty rasict ideology.

[Sydnie]

5. How long are the "rounds" today?

Leahy didn't seem to be up for very long.

[liveoaktx]

7. Seemed like 5 minutes

[Sydnie]

8. How can you put a timer on Justice?

This is an important issue and they have a timer. I just don't understand that at all.

[liveoaktx]

9. Would President have to appeal a FISA court decision (time constraints)

Hatch, using the Republican, takes too damn long to constrain Bush from spying right away

[The Witch]

11. Hatch is being an alarmist moron.

He's trying to get them to declare that there is a loophole for the OMG THE WORLD IS GOING TO END provision. As long as there is one loophole, they will use it. Fuckwads.

[liveoaktx]

12. Feinstein up

[Sydnie]

13. what is this "Denny's"? The "early bird rule"

:shrug:

[The Witch]

16. Would you like a warrant with your bacon?

:rofl:

[liveoaktx]

15. Probable cause versus Reasonable suspicion in the case of

collecting surveill

[liveoaktx]

17. FISA -establish that a target is an agent of Foreign power- that

clears the probable cause hurdle for FISA.

DIFI like the extension of 72 hours to days.

[liveoaktx]

20. DIFI-what should probable cause vs reasonable suspicion standard be?

[The Witch]

14. Let's go DIFI

Let's go DIFI
:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

[Idioteque]

18. Feinstein! Feinstein! She's our woman! If she can't do it...

...Feingold can!

[The Witch]

19. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!

Two Feins are better than one! :rofl:

[liveoaktx]

21. Baker-Probable cause a very low bar to make a WARRANTED surveillance

Foreign power outside the country, target inside the country.

[liveoaktx]

22. DIFI- Kornblum -President doing warrantless surv. FISA exclusive means

are FISA's rules binding on the president.

Kornblum-NO president has ever agree to that.

[liveoaktx]

23. Kornblum-President would be remiss to surrender his power to a statute

what an ASS!

[The Witch]

24. Then is FISA not binding at all????

isn't the point of FISA to bind the president?

[liveoaktx]

26. Baker-Presidents are under the law, too...

[liveoaktx]

28. Stafford- President can't be limited even if there's a law

[The Witch]

31. AHAH! And Feinstein takes the same tack! Good attack DiFi!

[rodeodance]

25. Feinstein saying 1978 law too old--needs to be update (overlooking fact

that Bush already broke the law)

[rodeodance]

27. "is the Pres. held to the rules and regulations of FISA"-fYES -IF it is

held to be constitutional"---crapola.

[liveoaktx]

30. Hope Feingold comes back to smack them with the KING argument

[rodeodance]

29. second judge gave a caviet to Feinstein question also.

[kentuck]

32. "The President's power under the Constitution..."

Why doesn't someone read the Constitution to them??

[rodeodance]

33. "so you all believe that the FISA law is adversary to Bush" asked Fein-

stein.

[rodeodance]

38. Specter saying Bush held to FIsa BUT--his constitutional powers TRUMP

the FISA laws (Specter reimating judges responses)

[liveoaktx]

45. which would confirm DIFI's "FISA only advisory?" comment

[liveoaktx]

34. DIFI basically saying that if President can ignore law, then FISA advisory

only

[The Witch]

35. Arlen jumps in to mitigate DiFi's attack, which blustered up the judges

STFU Arlen stop giving them the party line.

[Sydnie]

36. Specter is "leading the witness" just where he wants them to be

If they can't say it the way he wants, he'll say it for them.

[The Witch]

41. Hopefully someone will call him on it. It really pisses me off.

It's just like the Alito hearings. :puke:

[liveoaktx]

37. Kornblutt- implying that President would be constrained by the Courts

[The Witch]

39. I hope DiFi or someone says "Urm, STFU Arlen"

Someone needs to tell him that he cannot feed answers to the panel.

[BuyingThyme]

40. Just-now-streaming question: Is the presupposition of this hearing

that the wiretaps being discussed are ALL al-Qaeda/terrorism related?

And are the Dems buying that load again?

[liveoaktx]

43. They haven't really explicitly (except Hatch) used terrorism, rather

foreign power surveillance with the target domestic

[The Witch]

44. I doubt they are buying it, but I think it'd be too much to mention it.

Just my $.02.

[realFedUp]

42. man, Kennedy looks old and tired....hope he stays healthy.

[rodeodance]

72. he has put weight on take weight off issue--

[The Witch]

46. Kennedy: Are we missing something that we could discuss in closed session?

Ensuring that they can't say "Well, we're not telling you everything."

[liveoaktx]

47. Kennedy- surveillance evidence not approved by FISA

BAKER-at district court level, would have trouble putting out evidence obtained that way

[liveoaktx]

51. Kennedy-can people beat the rap if evidence obtained through NSA spying?

[Sydnie]

48. So that judge doesn't even know the specifics of the position

we find ourselves in, but is just lip service for what happened before?

edited typo

[realFedUp]

49. It's a shame this is on Cspan 3....unwatchable to most unless streaming...

[liveoaktx]

52. Yean, and my streaming is flaky-but it WILL show up later on Cspan

since they're recording it.

[rodeodance]

50. Kennedy hitting it on the nail--FISA put in place cause of Presidental

spying (unlawful)---asks What are we missing here?

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

54. Bingo!!!! This hearing is a sham. eom

[liveoaktx]

53. Kennedy-Carter said he would be BOUND by the law

[liveoaktx]

55. Durbin up

[liveoaktx]

58. Taking on Hatch that FISA wasn't intended to diminish the power

of the president. Durbin says he can't read FISA any other way since it says EXCLUSIVE

[Sydnie]

56. Dubin up now n/t

[The Witch]

57. Durbin up. Going for the jugular. 'EXCLUSIVE' word in FISA

:yourock: durbin

[TayTay]

Wow! direct question by Sen. Durbin.

Anyone here who can say that the Prez didn't violate the FISA law when he did the wiretaps?

[liveoaktx]

59. Durbin: 3 options- Follow, Ignore or Change- Pres didn't do first two

[liveoaktx]

60. "Anyone believe that the PResident didn't violate the law?" (Durbin)

[kentuck]

62. The judges seem to be pleading ignorance of the FISA law ???

Why are they there???

[liveoaktx]

66. To bolster Specter

[rodeodance]

68. I think Durban is asking about the NEW proposed law now.

[Sydnie]

71. Not the law, but the current "program" that is the center of the debate

I agree. If they can't speak to what is actually happening, then they are debating in a vacuum. They have no first hand knowledge of anything that is happening!

[The Witch]

61. Durbin: "Does anyone NOT believe he violated FISA?"

Judge: "I don't know the program."

Kennedy says that we're not missing anything so STFU stupid judge :argh:

[liveoaktx]

63. Keenan-this is international, not domestic (per the press)

[liveoaktx]

65. Baker-IF also picking up domestic, ... it's a real question.. is the

president running around the statute?

Thank goodness there's ONE guy on here with some sense.

[The Witch]

69. Note, Baker is the judge Durbin specifically greeted personally.

could be a friendly.

[rodeodance]

64. Judge saying --he heard from Pres that the PROGRAM is international.

[liveoaktx]

67. Going to start a Thread Hearing #3 shortly, will put link up in a mo

[liveoaktx]

70. >>>LINK to Thread # 3

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x773735

[BuyingThyme]

73. Durbin is still drinking Kool-Aid.

I have to assume all of the Dems are.

The purpose of this hearing is to gather support for something the Dems don't even understand.

The actual spying activity encompasses far more than the Gonzales testimony indicated. (Actually, his testimony did indicate a larger operation because he repeatedly used phrases like "this particular program," but Dems were not willing to listen.)

The Dems are failing us horribly by allowing this "hearing" to go forward without pinning the Pukes down on what the hell the witnesses are testifying about.

This activity, by design, will lead to a law which enables/permits secret spying without oversight. It will give Bush the RIGHT to spy on Americans without warrant. The Dems must be blamed as much as the Pukes. This is sickening.

[LeftCoast]

74. Locking

Please continue discussion in the ongoing threads. :hi: