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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 01:03 PM
Original message
Something bothers me concerning the sudden immigration
crisis. My concern derives from the revelation of the detention camps that are to be built. Is all this hoopla to induce an acceptance among the people for the camps? For any who share or don't share this concern, state your reasons.
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TransitJohn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 01:05 PM
Response to Original message
1. Are you thinking along the lines of
a nation wide shakedown for "papers?" Hmmm....well, I can't really see it happenning, not yet....take at least another 10 years before they'd be able to pull that one off. Still, reality is getting closer and closer to a Phil Dick reality every day.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #1
18. Well I was thinking of the issue
since they are supposed to be connected to INS and Homeland Security. Or is it just another way to get money to KBR?
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TransitJohn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. Ha!
It's killing two birds w/ one stone or is that greasing two palms with one kickback to these dirtbags?
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BR_Parkway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 01:05 PM
Response to Original message
2. I had similar thoughts when I flipped on TV and saw 100's of 1,000's
marching.
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BlackHeart Donating Member (294 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #2
10. The repubs blew their chance
they should have placed the camps at the end of the march.
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sutz12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 01:06 PM
Response to Original message
3. I was wondering what they are hiding this week.....
this came somewhat out of the blue, and usually that means there is something bigger hiding in the weeds.

It smells like a distraction to me.
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. Just another marketing campaign. What is sad is all the folks who bite.
I guess we Americans love our marketing. Hook, line, sinker.
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Marie26 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #3
13. Here's what they're hiding:
The Sensebrenner bill that so many people support is actually part of the "Real ID" Act. This Act seeks to identify & categorize every American through vast databases - it creates a "1984" Orwellian vision. But, most people don't care about that as long as we can kick out some illegal immigrants. You can be against illegal immigration & also be against this draconian, Orwellian & inhumane bill.
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Gormy Cuss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 01:07 PM
Response to Original message
4. Well, you may have connected the dots correctly on that issue
or maybe not. I appreciate your fresh thinking on this. I don't know whether I share your concern here but I will think about it.
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Marie26 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 01:07 PM
Response to Original message
5. Or maybe... the camps are for the illegal aliens. nt
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Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 01:08 PM
Response to Original message
6. I have many concerns about these "protests."
I'm not convinced they haven't been orchestrated or somehow egged on by the republicans themselves. Perhaps immigrants care about America more than Americans do. I mean, our government has been taken over by Christo-fascists, and we sit with our collective thumbs up our asses. But a bill comes before congress and all hell breaks lose? I'm sorry, practically speaking, demographically speaking, I find it hard to believe that this many people are so hip to the schedules and workings of Congress.

This whole thing is fishy.
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Marie26 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #6
12. It really isn't
Immigrants have one thing going for them that Americans do not: Community. I know many immigrants, and most people have a close network through extended family, friends, & the church. These demonstrations were promoted in the Spanish-language media that most people don't read, in churches, in advocacy organizations & among the community in general. So when a protest was organized, people knew how to communicate the message & rally others in their community. It's really an impressive demonstration of what some committed activists & an involved community can do. Progressives could learn a lot from the success of these protests, I think.
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #12
19. I agree with you, Marie26. Something that has been missed in the
Edited on Tue Mar-28-06 02:47 PM by Peace Patriot
immigration discussion at DU is the huge, profound leftist revolution that is occurring in Latin America--with leftist governments elected over the last several years, often by big majorities, in Brazil, Argentina, Uruguay, Chile (first woman president, socialist Michele Batchelet), Venezuela and Bolivia (first indigenous Indian president, Evo Morales). Peru will be next (indigenous Indian and leftist leading in the polls--Ollanta Humala). AND Mexico (leftist mayor of Mexico City leading polls in presidential race--Andres Manuel Lopez Obrado, aka "Amlo"). These governments and leftist leaders and the great majorities who support them have common themes: the long overdue empowerment of Latin America's vast poor brown/indigenous population; self-determination and economic justice; anti-US imperialism (death squads, assassinations, overthrow of Latin American democracies, installation of vicious dictators), and anti-IMF/World Bank and its attendant (often US-based) global corporate predators.

This peaceful, democratic leftist revolution cannot have occurred without a high degree of grass roots activist work, and highly motivated and hard working local activists, local civic groups and ordinary citizens/voters. When there was a US-supported coup attempt against the democratically elected president of Venezuela, Hugo Chavez, for instance, tens of thousands of people poured into the streets and helped prevent it--indicating not only great motivation in protecting their democracy, but also very good local community organization--also true of the elections themselves (very good local community organization). There has also been considerable work on TRANSPARENT elections (U.S. voters, take note!) by local groups, the OAS, EU election monitoring groups and the Carter Center.

The new socialist woman president of Chile was tortured by the US-backed dictator Pinochet. The new president of Bolivia is a former coca leaf grower, who opposes the murderous US "war on drugs," and came to prominence with the grass roots rebellion against Bechtel, which had privatized the water in one Bolivian city and jacked up the prices to the poor, even trying to charge them for collecting rainwater. The Bolivians threw Bechtel out of their country and elected Evo Morales, who was invested in a special ceremony by ten thousand Andes Indians, prior to his official inauguration. The president of Brazil is a former steel worker who led the third world revolt at the World Trade Center meeting in Cancun a few years ago. Most US citizens don't realize that Hugo Chavez is by no means alone. He is merely the most visible leader of a huge, historic, continent-wide revolt against US-imperial policy.

Now imagine this wave of democratic revolution--clearly headed north already (to Mexico)--hitting Los Estados Unidos, in the form of the highly motivated, well-organized, community-based, traditionally exploited, vast population of brown-faced poor throughout the Americas, who have decided not to take it any more, closely allied by family and community ties, and indigenous blood, with the existing US brown population.

The brown will soon be a majority in California--one of the Bush junta's primary targets. Why do you think they got rid of Democratic Sec of State Kevin Shelley, who had sued Diebold and "decertified" the worst of their election theft machines prior to the 2004 election, and then installed Schwarzenegger appointee, Republican Bruce McPherson, who wasted no time in ILLEGALLY RE-certifying Diebold? They want to turn California into a "red" state by devious means--and they don't want any politically smart, active poor brown people, with ties to the new Latin American revolution, to get in their way.

I think this is a much more likely explanation for these well-organized protests than that they are some kind of conspiracy of the Bush junta. This sort of thing is NORMAL in Latin America--people protesting in the streets in large numbers, expressing their views, influencing policy--although it has become extremely rare here, almost non-existent among our own very oppressed groups--blacks, the poor, the elderly, students, the jobless, credit card company victims, gas/energy company victims, military veterans (the wounded and their enslaved brethren over in Iraq on 3rd/4th tours of duty). The only large protests we've seen have been mostly white/middle-class in organization and attendance (antiwar protests, anti-WTO, anti-IMF). The MOST exploited people seem very oppressed, indeed. They seem to have lost hope. But what if they get energized by the revolution that is sweeping Latin America--with ideas and hope brought here by both legal and illegal immigrants, and family ties?

I think that the Latin Americans in this country--almost all of whom are more native than any whites--whether they were born in the US, or have become citizens, or are working illegally, pose a great threat to the fascist junta and its corporate buds who are running our government, and that their assault on immigration is BOTH intended to limit revolutionary Latin American influence on America's poor/middle class, AND to create a "wedge" issue (a la gay marriage) by which to write illusionary PR "talking points" to explain their inexplicable coming victories in the '06 by-elections (compliments of Diebold and ES&S).

The "talking points" about the immigration issue will be crap, of course--much like the gay marriage issue, which was used to cover up the truth about the election system: for instance, that two rightwing Bushite corporations--Diebold and ES&S--'tabulated' 80% of the nation's votes in 2004, using 'TRADE SECRET,' PROPRIETARY programming code, with virtually no audit/recount controls--an election system designed by the two biggest crooks in Congress, Tom Delay and Bob Ney (with their $4 billion "Help America Vote Act" electronic voting boondoggle).

You heard lots of talk about gay marriage, and NOT ONE WORD about WHO was 'tabulating' our votes behind a veil of secrecy!

I understand people being suspicious of the immigration issue and its orchestration by our war profiteering corporate news monopolies. But I think it needs to be seen in this bigger context, of, a) the threat posed by the revolution in Latin America, and b) covering up yet another stolen election.
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TallahasseeGrannie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #6
16. Well if the pubs got those demonstrations going
then they are WAY better at it than we are. We haven't gotten that type of participation in 30 years.
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PsN2Wind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #6
21. If "immigrants care about America more than Americans do"
wouldn't U.S. flags rather than Mexican flags have conveyed that a bit better?
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Kenergy Donating Member (834 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 01:08 PM
Response to Original message
7. Very possible, and it also conveniently takes the spotlight
off of the censure issue.
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Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Not to mention how many people are getting photographed and databased
Everyone knows there are agents/officers on every corner with camcorders. Getting lots of nice head shots, I'm sure. It will make their jobs so much easier in a few years.
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Marie26 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #7
17. So how would they do that?
Edited on Tue Mar-28-06 01:56 PM by Marie26
If a Republican tried to tell immigrants to protest something, there'd be a stampede in the opposite direction. And these protests were against a Republican bill - the conspiracy theory doesn't make much sense in this context.
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savemefromdumbya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 01:13 PM
Response to Original message
11. Detention camps!
No way should there be detention camps
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #11
22. But that's the thing
isn't it? A contract to build them has been awarded.
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ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 01:18 PM
Response to Original message
14. A lot of progressives are paranoid
and it has nothing to do with immigration. They think the camps are being built for progressives and radicals. This was a topic of concern several months ago.
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dusmcj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 01:22 PM
Response to Original message
15. GOP more likely to put anglo dissidents in camps than immigrants. nt
Edited on Tue Mar-28-06 01:23 PM by dusmcj
(Inspired by "God Save the Queen" by J. Rotten and S. Vicious: )

God save the Doober, the little fascist Pooper.
Ridin Big Dick, to give the libruls the stick.
Things are gonna change, I can feel it, man.
Here in old 'Merka.

R U Connected yet ? Sign up now before it's too late.

(To the tune of "There's a Place for Us", which I don't remember: )

There's a place for us.
Right in a FEMA camp.
Together with all the other
liberals
commies
humanists
fags
Cause we're not Confident
and Under Control
Or Firm or Resolved
and Connected
Practice your Fuehrer salute
And we'll all be OK.

FTS
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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 03:46 PM
Response to Original message
23. What happened to the DEADLY Bird Flu?
We had saturation coverage of that not too long ago. We don't got to worry about that no more? Or there ain't no votes in it?

Don
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