" North of the Border" Paul Krugman on Immigration Debate

[radio4progressives]

Originally published with the New York Times, it is accessable at TruthOut.org http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/032706O.shtml and lends a very important balance to this entire discussion and debate, and I think it is the approach we need to consider all the way through.


North of the Border
By Paul Krugman
The New York Times
Monday 27 March 2006

Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free," wrote Emma Lazarus, in a poem that still puts a lump in my throat. I'm proud of America's immigrant history, and grateful that the door was open when my grandparents fled Russia.

(snip)

Realistically, we'll need to reduce the inflow of low-skill immigrants. Mainly that means better controls on illegal immigration.But the harsh anti-immigration legislation passed by the House, which has led to huge protests - legislation that would, among other things, make it a criminal act to provide an illegal immigrant with medical care - is simply immoral. (emphasis added)

(snip)

We need to do something about immigration, and soon. But I'd rather see Congress fail to agree on anything this year than have it rush into ill-considered legislation that betrays our moral and democratic principles. (emphasis added)

cont...

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/032706O.shtml

[TomInTib]

1. You are so right. This should be recquired reading for all of us DUers

I read this yesterday and it makes so much sense.

[radio4progressives]

2. Thanks Tom.. it helps bring in a bit of Sanity to this Discussion

more light, and less reactionarism.. would you say?

[PVK]

3. You cherry-pick quotes from the article.

What about these points that Krugman raises? I think it's worth noting that he has previously tread very lightly on the subject and is, as he says, instinctively pro-immigration. Let's look at the caveats he issues:

{SNIP}

But a review of serious, nonpartisan research reveals some uncomfortable facts about the economics of modern immigration, and immigration from Mexico in particular. If people like me are going to respond effectively to anti-immigrant demagogues, we have to acknowledge those facts.

First, the net benefits to the U.S. economy from immigration, aside from the large gains to the immigrants themselves, are small. Realistic estimates suggest that immigration since 1980 has raised the total income of native-born Americans by no more than a fraction of 1 percent.

Second, while immigration may have raised overall income slightly, many of the worst-off native-born Americans are hurt by immigration - especially immigration from Mexico. Because Mexican immigrants have much less education than the average U.S. worker, they increase the supply of less-skilled labor, driving down the wages of the worst-paid Americans. The most authoritative recent study of this effect, by George Borjas and Lawrence Katz of Harvard, estimates that U.S. high school dropouts would earn as much as 8 percent more if it weren't for Mexican immigration.

That's why it's intellectually dishonest to say, as President Bush does, that immigrants do "jobs that Americans will not do." The willingness of Americans to do a job depends on how much that job pays - and the reason some jobs pay too little to attract native-born Americans is competition from poorly paid immigrants.

Finally, modern America is a welfare state, even if our social safety net has more holes in it than it should - and low-skill immigrants threaten to unravel that safety net.

[TomInTib]

7. And all are valid points. That's why I was glad to see Krugman

take such a comprehensive view of the topic yesterday.

We all need a more balanced and sane take on this. People on both sides tend to get a bit screechy.

We all have our different views, but few have solutions.

The fact is, it is what it is and it's here to stay.

Someone needs to come up with a win/win.

Got one?

I don't.

And I have lived in Texas and California all my life.

[radio4progressives]

9. I left out the rest of the article for others to cherry pick (grin)

that was my intention, i cherry picked on the points that I wanted to see emphasised so that we didn't lose sight of those essential points, essentially because my position has been on the side of treating all workers like brothers and sisters in the same struggle against a common enemy - the position that Sensenbrenner and Lou Dobbs hold is essentialially extremist, racists, xenophobic and provokes hatred and resentment. their racism is so extreme, and so visceral and palpabable through the air waves, that i am inclined to take the position of open borders just as a reaction to their reactionarism.

but i know that the issues are much more complicated than that, and I know that we have to deal with resolving this in a senseable way without dehumanizing and focusing in the wrong direction.

on edit: i should have said that emphasised my main focus, but the point of the posting the thread was not to limit discussion on the points i cherry picked. Because I am limited to the three paragraph rule, i figure others can pull out of the article and post their favorite points.

[Imalittleteapot]

4. Excellent. K&R

[kurth]

5. House bill is poison pill

Chances of the Senate Judiciary bill getting out of the Senate and then out of conference are poor.

The House Republicans will use the bill they passed as their weapon to keep the House in GOP hands this November.

It's not a stupid strategy. And it's a mistake to think the GOP is broken: Every Republican knows Bush is toast, but their GOP must live on.

[radio4progressives]

10. I completely agree with your analysis..

people are going on suggesting that the GOP is divided over this issue.. well I don't think that's true either... sure they're divided in the Senate but not by much.

[Usrename]

15. The Dems will cave to take away the issue.

That seems to be the only strategy they understand. Keep the powder dry. Must win first. Then you'll see. Trust us.

[Maestro]

6. Good read

and it seems that this is really a wedge issue for the repukes to exploit just like their cheap labor conservative friends are exploiting those who can only work in low wage positions because of lack of education or opportunity. The real way to help the American worker is to fight for better benefits and wages for all and stop targeting immigrants as the sole reason that jobs are threatened. * has already ruined the economy and the impact by illegal immigrants is at most only slightly significant.

[Inland]

8. "who'd love to have a low-wage work force that couldn't vote."

business proponents of "guest worker programs."

[PVK]

11. Translation: slaves. n/t

[EFerrari]

12. I adore Krugman and am grateful for his voice. And disagree here.

He is so right in the sense that, as this issue is a real issue that is being used as a shiny thing, Congress will hopefully fail well enough to address it just now. Because everything this Congress touches fails.

And, that's on a good day.

My problem is that Krugman approaches this issue as if we could engineer our future intelligently. That's not going to happen. Wages will be depressed by the supply of undocumented workers until we stand up for ALL workers. And, you've all read too much already what I think and wish.

But, let's get on the right side of Krugman and on this issue.

He is rightfully saying that historically, we are on the side of labor.

And, if we can do it, we can be on the side of labor without being on the side of the shiny distraction.

peace

[radio4progressives]

13. Excellent post sfexpat2000.. i'm in complete agreement

:toast:

[EFerrari]

14. They are baiting us. We can choose not to take the bait.

:)

[Hekate]

16. K&R. Thanks for posting Krugman -- always a voice of sanity.

:kick:

Hekate

[HEyHEY]

17. "Give us you educated, rich, those not really needing the USA"

[rman]

18. What's that supposd to mean?

I trust you don't think it should be made illegal to provide health care to illegal immigrants, do you?