Here's an interesting ethical question...

[BreweryYardRat]

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/03/29/PURSE.TMP

Shahla Ghannadian cried Sunday for most of the flight home to Toronto. Hours earlier, while sightseeing in Sausalito, her husband lost her Louis Vuitton purse.

Ghannadian had left her husband in charge of the purse for a just few minutes while sightseeing in Sausalito, and he must have forgotten it on a park bench, Ali Khalili said.

But it wasn't just any Louis Vuitton purse. This one contained jewelry worth more than $1 million.

Ghannadian held out hope, but knew the chances of recovering the valuables were slim.

So the phone call from Sausalito police on Monday came as a shocker. San Rafael resident John Suhrhoff had found the purse and turned it over to police with all its contents -- including a Cartier watch, diamond and ruby rings, pearl earrings, necklaces with large diamond stones, and $500 in cash.

Sausalito police said Suhrhoff found the purse Sunday on a park bench behind a bank on Bridgeway Street.

Suhrhoff took the purse to Sausalito police Monday and asked nothing in return, according to police Sgt. Kurtis Skoog.

"He left his name and address, but not to get a reward," Skoog said. "He said, 'If they want to thank me, here's my information.' ''

I was raised to believe you should always do the right thing, but on the other hand, that's a LOT of money and it's probably small change for that person.

Some simple planning on where you sell the jewels (hint: several fucking states away, don't sell more than one piece in one city) could mean you get to keep it all.

If the woman offered a 10-20% reward, I'd return it. I wouldn't take a reward for returning a small amount of money, but on something this size, a reward is just common courtesy.

What would you do?

[cornermouse]

1. Return it.

Sorry. It belongs to someone else. I'd return it. Call me lazy, but I have no idea how to market "found" jewelry and no interest in learning.

[malaise]

52. I'd return it

If the owner sent me a reward, I would not complain. If she didn't cool. I'd have done the right thing.
Back in the 70s, a cashier in a Manhattan breakfast place gave me change for a big note when I gave her $10. In those days, you didn't have to check your change, but when I walked outside it hit me that she gave me back more money than I gave her and I went back in and returned the money. She didn't even realize her mistake and was shocked that I returned the money. A few weeks later I went for breakfast and she introduced me to the owner who refused to let me pay for my meal.

[Yupster]

86. Same here malaise

This is an easy one. You return it.

I work on commission and recently made a sale where the sales charge was figured incorrectly. I got an extra $ 500 and my customer was charged an extra $ 500.

I've worked with the customer and know 100 % that he would never notice the difference and wouldn't even know what the proper charge should have been if he even looked. It was also a pain to go through the channels to get it corrected.

Wasn't ever a question though.

I went through the channels and got him his extra $ 500 bucks from my commission.

He'll never even know it happened, but I believe in karma, and good things happen to me all the time too.

Same thing with the urse. I'd return it without thought and expect something good would happen to me too. If it wasn't a reward it would be something else. I wouldn't worry about it.

[pitohui]

93. you can't legally market "found" jewelry

i think we all know good and well what happened, a pretty girl humped hubby, was looking to pick a pocket, got the jewels instead, found herself in over her head with something she couldn't sell

but, yeah, hubby, good save with the story abt how you just left a million dollars on the bench

no wonder the wife is crying, she can't be stupid enough to believe that is the whole story, she has to know

i'm just glad she got it back

[BlooInBloo]

2. IMO, doing what's right is *expected* behavior....

And to expect a reward for performing *expected* behavior is silly.

I think it's a sign of America's moral decay that people expect rewards for doing what is right and good and just.

This situation seems straightforward: give back the stuff, say "have a nice day", and go about your business. Where's the complexity in it?

[BreweryYardRat]

4. The complexity arises when we're considering what has been found...

Not someone's wallet with a credit card or two and $50, not a laptop, not a lost dog, but $1,000,000 dollars.

I feel there's a certain point (anything over $500 or so) at which you are ethically obligated to offer at least a 10% reward to whoever returns it. It's common courtesy to reward someone who has done you that much of a service.

[BlooInBloo]

6. I fail to see the complexity...

Decision procedure:

Is it mine?
No

Then give it back to whomever owns it.

Did I miss the complexity somewhere along that line of thought?

I guess you and I disagree - I don't behaving ethically (giving something back that isn't yours) morally requires a reward. In fact, I think rewards are anathema to morality. The expectation of reward destroys what is specifically *ethical* in the situation. One is nothing more than a mercenary - instead of a principled, ethical person, when one goes around looking for rewards to do what's right.

IMO, one should do what's right SIMPLY BECAUSE IT'S THE RIGHT THING TO DO. Acting for any other reason means that one is not acting out of morality, but for some other reason.

Notice that the dollar amount, which seems to be really really important to you, isn't relevant in the least to me.

[cornermouse]

14. Giving a reward would indicate a certain amount of class

on the part of the owner. Lack of reward = lack of class. That said, I don't have to live with their conscience. I can only control my own behavior and conscience.

[BlooInBloo]

18. Returning things that don't belong to you does too :)

And doing it just because it's the right thing to do does as well.

[Demit]

7. Interesting how your ethics change according to the dollar amount.

And that your behavior is only honest if you deem the other person as not too well off. Or you'll agree to make a deal to be honest if the other person rewards you first. Feh. Lousy ethics you've got there.

[BlooInBloo]

16. Reading it more closely, the OP appears to actually be a *thief*

"If the woman offered a 10-20% reward, I'd return it."

The clear implication being that if the woman DIDN'T offer 10-20%, the OP would NOT return it. At which point it becomes theft.



"I was raised to believe you should always do the right thing, but on the other hand..."

That is, the OP is willing to consider the value of doing the WRONG thing.



"...that's a LOT of money and it's probably small change for that person."

That is, it's ok to do the wrong thing if the rightful (!) owner is rich.


I suppose I see how the question could be interesting now: If one is completely WITHOUT morals, then there WOULD be a question about how to proceed.

[BreweryYardRat]

19. Plaster saint much?

"The clear implication being that if the woman DIDN'T offer 10-20%, the OP would NOT return it. At which point it becomes theft."

I don't KNOW what I'd do in that situation. It's the pragmatist in me fighting with the moralist in me. Or, if you'd like me to put in simpler terms-Republican instincts vs. Democratic instincts. Why the hell do you think I asked the question in the first place-it's a hypothetical to see if anyone ELSE would be faced with a moral dilemma in that situation!

I'm so glad for you that you can sit up on your high horse with your 10,000 watt halo when discussing a hypothetical issue, but I have a sneaking suspicion that you too would think things over a few times if you found yourself in this dilemma tomorrow. You wouldn't be human if you didn't.

You can sit there and call me a thief all you like, but I'm honest enough with myself and with others to admit that I'd be conflicted in that situation.

[BlooInBloo]

20. "Plaster saint"?

Whatever that means... Guess I can google it...

To be honest with yourself would be to call yourself a blackmailer, ransomer, extortionist if you refused to return someone else's belongings unless they paid you 10-20%.

To be honest with yourself would be to turn yourself into the police after committing the crime.

To be honest period would be to not hold someone else's belongings for a ransom, but to just give it back because it's the right thing to do.

"I have a sneaking suspicion that you too would think things over a few times if you found yourself in this dilemma tomorrow. You wouldn't be human if you didn't."

One wonders how much else about you is sneaking...

Your pessimism is telling, however. It is incomprehensible to you that people can simply do what is right without qualms. I hope that's just projection of your own views, and not common... Ah who am I kidding - lotsa people are amoral... sigh...

[BreweryYardRat]

22. So nice to see you ignoring a very blatant statement...

I said "I don't KNOW what I'd do...pragmatist vs. moralist, etc..."

And "it is incomprehensible to you that people can simply do what is right without qualms"-no, it's not. The only time I start having qualms is when there's a significant amount of money involved.

I've said it in other posts in this thread...if I found a wallet with $50, or even $450, I'd hand it back with no qualms. I wouldn't expect a reward for returning a lost dog, or a lost laptop. Anything under $500, I wouldn't expect a reward. Hell, let me clarify an earlier position-I stated earlier that a reward is simple, expected, courtesy at or over $500. If you lost say...$5,000, I'd expect a reward, but that's not significantly major for me to have qualms over handing in. I'd be pretty pissed if you stiffed me after that, though.

It's only when the monetary amount gets really high, like in this instance, that I start developing qualms.

[BlooInBloo]

23. It's not pragmatism...

... It's theft. And it's dishonest to call not returning items that don't belong to you anything else.

Rewards are not "expected" simpliciter. They're expected BY YOU - massive difference between the two. Don't include me in your amoral world, please. Thanks!

[electropop]

40. We can't let Republican thinking infect our own minds.

It would be nice if the owner offers a reward, but that does not affect the moral decision to return somebody's property.

[brmdp3123]

12. Well said.

[Kierkegaard]

15. I agree with you completely.

I'm disgusted with 'What's in it for me?' America. I certainly think learned behavior could cause this situation to trigger a moral dilemma, but as a matter of conscience, it shouldn't be a difficult decision, regardless of the value of the found item.

I once had a signed paycheck sitting on my car seat while enroute to the bank. Whilst breezing down the freeway, I absentmindedly opened a window and out went the check. At highway speeds, it was just not possible to stop quickly enough to get a good feel for where it might be. Needless to say, I couldn't locate the check and figured I would have to go through a stop payment and get another check issued.

To my surprise, someone actually found it and turned it in to police. Whomever did the good deed didn't bother to leave their name.

[BlooInBloo]

17. Aaahhh.... Gives me hope... :)

[johnnie]

41. "America's moral decay"?

I think this story took place in America. I don't think that America is heading in any other direction than it has in the past.

You sound like my grandparents..lol. "Back in my day"

[BlooInBloo]

47. You might be right...

... Books like "The Cheating Culture" make me think differently, but maybe it is a generational thing...

[myrna minx]

72. I completely agree.

We shouldn't act like dogs expecting treats for good behavior. We are people who should be able to do the right thing without needing to gain anything in return.

[NMMNG]

3. Return it

It's the right thing to do.

[Skittles]

5. I would return it and refuse a reward

I don't like the idea of being rewarded for just doing the right thing. If the recipient insisted on a reward I would ask it be donated to a favorite charity.

[BlooInBloo]

8. I could *accept* a reward, I suppose....

But I certainly wouldn't *expect* one, *look for* one, or feel that the rightful owner did anything wrong if she didn't offer me one.

I might give the alleged reward to charity, or I might keep it. Situation decision I guess. Maybe I wouldn't even accept it.

I don't think it kills the morality of the situation to *accept* a reward - *expecting* a reward does, though.

[Speed8098]

9. Return it without question

This one is a no-brainer.

[ScreamingMeemie]

10. Return it. I believe in karma. That's why my son gave the cashier the

dollar he found in the U-scan change return. A few years ago, I was flying to California...I accidentally (because I had two bags) left my purse at the gate when I boarded the plane. A kind and wonderful woman handed it to the steward...I frantically tried to get off the plane. Ever try to do that with half of America coming at you? The purse had 3,000 dollars in it. The steward handed it to me and I asked him to point the woman out to me. She refused to take a reward.

There are still good people in the world.

[RebelOne]

11. I guess I am overly honest. I would return it.

A couple of weeks ago, I found a lady's wallet in a supermarket shopping basket. I gave it to the store manager, who was able to contact her to return it.

[BreweryYardRat]

13. In that situation, I'd do the same thing.

It's only when the amount in question is as large as in the original post that I'd start expecting a reward.

[Behind the Aegis]

21. Interesting.

You ask what others would do and you are accused of being a thief. I think that says much about some here. You are being honest, and with that honesty, you are met with accusations.

As for your scenario, if I found it, I would return it, no expectations. I won't lie and pretend that I wouldn't want a reward, but I wouldn't demand it.

A few month's ago, I paid $4 dollars for a woman's groceries. She asked to pay me back and I said, "you can repay me by repeating what I have done." In my finances, $4 was not a big hit. I don't think one has to make oneself poor to be "right with the world," one does what one can.

I will say this though, IMO, those who are 'without' tend to be more generous, than those who 'have!' We should always understand, that we may find ourselves being "without" and relying on the kindness of strangers.

Ethics = what we think is right
Reality = what we think is ethical, when no one sees us

[mark11727]

30. I think there's a saying...

...that character is what you do when nobody's looking.

That having been said, I'm never going into any thread titled "interesting ethical question" without wearing a flame-retardant suit. Whew!

[Skinner]

32. I think you nailed it.

I posted something similar lower down in the thread.

[sbj405]

24. I've found several wallets and even an ATM card

Returned them without ever opening them to see what was inside.

That being said Mrs. Ghannadian is either an idiot or $1 million is really chump change to her.

[peacebird]

25. I don't see any question here - ethical or otherwise. Return it.

It's the right thing to do.

[Pachamama]

26. Not to change the subject, but WTF is someone doing w/$1MM in Jewels in a

bag while sightseeing? :wtf:

Seriously....apparentely there was even a 12K diamond in the bag! What the hell? I just can't even begin to comprehend the stupidity of some people! If I had that kind of jewelry, I'd either be wearing it, keeping it somewhere safe and locked away. And I certainly wouldn't shove it in a Louis V. bag and just casually hand it to my husband while I sight-see!

Bizarre....All I can say is that I hope this woman gives the man who found this bag a reward, because frankly, its a miracle she got it back and that it was found by such an honest person....how easy it would have been for someone, especially if they were financially in trouble, to have just kept this bag and jewelry and sold it off...

[bloom]

90. I can imagine

That if I saw all that in a purse - I would assume it was fake - just because it would seem so weird for someone to leave something worth that much on a park bench.


(I would still turn it in - either way).

[Gormy Cuss]

95. They had traveled from Canada for a family wedding.

Probably felt safer carrying it on their persons than leaving it wherever they were staying. While the jewelry was worth a million it was a very small collection of items and I could easily see an older person traveling in a foreign country being a bit leary leaving it anywhere when it could be stashed in a purse (not saying this is a smart move, just that I could understand someone thinking that way.)

[lapislzi]

27. Tempted. I'd be lying if I said I wouldn't be tempted.

But resisting certain temptations is a cornerstone of morality. I would be tempted, but I'd return it with no expectation of a reward. Doing the right thing is the reward, period.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

28. I Think It's An Embarrasment This Question Is Even Being Asked.

In my opinion it isn't even worthy of an answer.

[neoblues]

29. Return it, obviously.

As for reward, even to wait for one would be a form of extortion--like holding something for a ransom.

Still, there's nothing unethical about accepting a reward if one is offered and it is up to you whether or how much of it (if it's large) you accept or what you then do with it.

As for those who are wealthy and have such items that may be so casually lost, it's probably a wise thing to offer rewards and to give them even if the item is returned before one is offered... for the simple reason that it gives incentive to do the right thing without delay to the many people out there who, while normally not outright unethical or criminal, might be either tempted or vasillating between the devil on one shoulder and the angel on the other.

[Skinner]

31. I can't help thinking that an honest answer is not possible here.

The conventional wisdom has already been established: good people return stuff they find. It's honest.

But the punishment for honesty *in this thread* has already been established, if you give the wrong answer: Admit that you might keep it, and you are branded a thief.

So, what would a sensible person do? If you would give it back, you post in this thread that you would give it back. And if you would keep it, you post in this thread that you would give it back. Either answer, you are rewarded by the approval of your peers.

But in the end, it's all just words.

I would like to think that I would give it back. I have done plenty of selfless things in my life; I have on a number of occasions returned money and things that are not mine. But a million dollers is a shitload of money -- Life changing money for most people. And let's face it: If someone is walking around town with a Louis Vuitton bag stuffed with a million dollars in cash and jewelry, then they probably don't need it that badly.

Fortunately, it is unlikely that anyone in this thread is ever going to be faced with this particular situation, and have to find out the hard way that their own bedrock ethical principles might not be so bedrock after all.

Just to shake things up, here's my answer: If you return that bag without even considering the possibility of keeping it for yourself (maybe giving half to charity so you feel better), then you are a sucker. You aren't taking food money from a hungry old lady on Social Security. You've been duped into helping someone who does not need your help, and you have given away an opportunity to provide security for yourself, and maybe even help a lot of people. How many Sally Struthers kids could you feed with that money? They aren't going to eat your honesty.

[BlooInBloo]

36. Yowsas!!

"And let's face it: If someone is walking around town with a Louis Vuitton bag stuffed with a million dollars in cash and jewelry, then they probably don't need it that badly."

Ok. I've faced it. Now explain to me what that has to do with what's right and what's wrong?


"If you return that bag without even considering the possibility of keeping it for yourself (maybe giving half to charity so you feel better), then you are a sucker."

{shrug} If you say so... it's your site...

Thinking about it more, I WOULD entertain the possibility of giving it to the cops - that's a lotta loot - it might occur to me that maybe it had been stolen...


"You aren't taking food money from a hungry old lady on Social Security."

I guess my imagination is sorely lacking. I just don't see how this is so much as *relevant* to the question of what's right and what's wrong.


"You've been duped..."

My lack of imagination is stunning even me at this point... Who duped me when I wasn't watching? lol


"you have given away an opportunity"

Wow. I thought you could only give away WHAT IS YOURS. The bag isn't mine. Unless I steal it, of course. And then it's only "mine" in a rather broad sense of the word "mine". Mine-by-force rather than mine-by-right, as it were.


"How many Sally Struthers kids could you feed with that money? They aren't going to eat your honesty."

Wouldn't that logic also require me to go out and actively steal from rich folks? After all, every day I don't go out steal from the rich is another day Sally Struthers' kids go unfed... Or Sally herself - LOL (see? no sainthood in me! lolol)

The term "conventional wisdom" is commonly used these days to mean something like people-believe-it-though-there's-good-reason-to-believe-it-isn't-true. Are you using it in this sense?

[Skinner]

46. More words. And that's all they are: just words.

I think you are missing my point completely.

I could have posted: "Where is the moral ambiguity here? Of course I would give it back." And then people would kiss my ass and tell me what a great person I am and all that. It would have been easy, and I would have received lots of positive reinforcement. And yet nobody would really have any clue, other than my own word, what I would actually do if I found a bag stuffed with a million dollars.

In fact, even my previous post doesn't really get you much closer to knowing the truth about what I would do. As I said, I would like to think that I would give it back. But honestly, we don't know what anyone in this thread would actually do.

But I do have a sneaking suspicion that there are more people being honest among the "I'd keep it" group than among the "I'd give it back" group. Call it a hunch based on the obvious system of rewards and punishments that has already been established in this thread.

[BlooInBloo]

48. Let it be so. :)

[FlaGranny]

101. Well, if you consider what

$1 million in jewelry is probably worth in a pawn shop, it's not really all THAT much money anyhow.

My husband found a 2-carat diamond once in someone's home. He was steam cleaning their carpet and found it in his extraction machine. He took what he thought was a 2-carat diamond and gave it to the homeowner. That's when he found out it was a fake.

If I found a large sum of money, my conscience would nag at me the rest of my life if I didn't try to find out who it belonged to and try to return it. I know this because as a young person I once kept something that didn't belong to me. Even though that "something" was not valuable, I still feel guilt and shame when I think about it now, 45 years later. Of course, I'd be happy and relieved to keep that large sum of money, if no one claimed it.

[newspeak]

103. well, wonder if it was my mother

who has a very, very expensive ring that my father gave her a long time ago--it's worth a lot of money and she hardly wears it because she's afraid someone might steal it. But here is a woman who is living month to month on SS and barely making ends meet, but she has this ring my father gave her for Christimas before he died. Now, wonder if she put that ring in her purse for some reason and lost her purse. Some might think she was wealthy because she has that ring, but that is all she has left!!! She could not even afford to pay a reward, she can barely afford to pay her utility bills. Hmmmmm :shrug: You don't know her, would you expect a reward or keep it thinking she was wealthy?

[northzax]

77. right, last year I was walking around town

one day with ten thousand dollars in cash in my bag, not because I'm rich, but because I had just sold a bunch of stuff, including a car, for cash and was on my way to the bank. But someone could have found it and instead of thinking, 'well, this poor graduate student needs this money for next semester's tuition because the student loan system has been gutted', rather 'wow, this guy must be rich to have this much cash around'

and the whole idea that you would need to find a fence, out of state, to convert the property leads me to think that perhaps, it's a bit shady, you know?

[Demit]

42. Sorry, Skinner. Those are justifications you're offering. Assumptions.

You are assuming that the other person "must not" need the money. You have no right to assume that. It too conveniently benefits you. You might just as well offer a child's "Finders Keepers!" as a justification. And "given away an opportunity to provide security for yourself"? Even more lame! Sounds like a variation on going out and "getting paid". Or "helping a lot of people" instead of giving the goods back to its rightful owner? Please. When you come into a lot of your own money, then you have the right to be altruistic. Not till then.

[Horse with no Name]

44. But without knowing all of the details when you find the purse

How do you know that these jewels didn't belong to this lady's Grandmother who just passed away and the woman was merely taking them to put in a safe deposit box?
How do you know that these weren't family heirlooms that this woman had to sell because she needed chemo or some other medical procedure...or to keep her home, etc?
I would definitely have to ask myself why would "I" be carrying around these kinds of assets.

There have been times that I have had to scrape money together to feed my kids and the cashier at the store gave me too much change.
As much as I needed those few dollars that she was giving, it still didn't make it right to profit off of someone else's foolishness or mistake--because on the OTHER side of the equation is ALWAYS someone who could be worse off than you are. For instance, I take those few dollars that the cashier gave me even though I was able to scrape up coins to feed my kids, when her employer takes the money out of her check, can I live with the fact that she may not have coins to scrape together to feed her kids?

I think the reason that less fortunate people are more inclined to be honest in situations like this, because they can truly empathize with what it feels to LOSE something of importance. Losing $20 to someone that has nothing is the same feeling of losing $1,000,000 to someone who has everything. The amount is relative and unimportant in the equation.

Sure you can "dream" about the "million that got away", but why carry the guilt around that you may have deprived another human of something that they desperately needed.

[northzax]

80. remind us of this during the next pledge drive, huh? :)

seriously, you raise a good point, that the scenario matters for real behaviour, but I don't think it actually changes the ethics of the scenario any. But that is a decision that someone can only make between them and their conscience. Logic, and darwin, say, finder's keepers. But part of living in society and moving past that, is to be able to make decisions that supercede the basic instinct to take what is avaliable.

[pitohui]

98. actually i've been in a similar situation

poor skinner, i hope you never do, because you'd go to jail man!

i'm almost embarrassed to say how much, so i won't, but once i found in the mid five figures -- in my own bank account, it had been there for months, unnoticed, because well i was going thru a tough time then and hadn't been balancing my checkbook

in theory the bank would have never known, they had already balanced the books and in fact had arrested an employee for embezzlement -- the story seems to be that all missing money, not just the money that he admitted to stealing, was going to be charged to his doing

i guess if i had known abt the embezzlement i could have kept the money but even then, what donation to sally struther's would make up for the fact that i was guilty of enhancing another man's prison sentence, they do look at how much the person profitted and how much they can re-pay you know

it also didn't hurt that, a few years earler, another lady at a different local bank, found -- again not on the street, not in a horny husband's pocket (oops, i was supposed to pretend to believe the jewels were found on a bench wasn't i, well never mind that) -- this lady found $250,000 in her own bank account

her choice was to spend the money

eventually it was tracked down, and she was arrested, and she went to prison

there is no "finding" of property that doesn't belong to you, it doesn't magically become yours because you "found" it, every thief with a back room full of teevee sets and wedding rings "found" all that stuff or is holding it for a buddy with a metal detector who found it

you are still a thief even if you "found" the items

this isn't ethics, this is simple looking out for yourself and keeping your freedom

$1 million in stolen property will be tracked, you'll get caught, and yeah it will be life-changing all right

if you can't keep money that you find in your own bank account, don't even try to tell me that you keep $1 million you claim without proof to have "found" on the street

it just ain't on

oh and i didn't get a reward, all i got was a thank you and an explanation, which is probably as it should be

[Skinner]

105. Wow! That's an amazing story.

Thank you for sharing it. I'm glad you made the right choice.

And don't worry about me -- I've got my personal ethical house in order.

[pitohui]

107. it was in the early 90s

i wonder if it could even happen today, i would hope the banks have better procedures but it seems there had to be multiple screw-ups for it to happen at all even then

i wasn't really worried abt ya, just thought it a good place to tell of this rather weird experience

[mark11727]

99. Shame on you. Skinner, for introducing some common sense...

...in the middle of a perfectly nice flame-war.

Killjoy. :P

[pitohui]

102. interesting concept of common sense

my concept of common sense would suggest that you can't do anybody any good, not even yourself, from a prison cell

receiving and selling of stolen property is a felony, receiving and selling $1 million of stolen property a serious felony meriting years of prison time even on a first offense

i doubt sally struthers would be charged as an accessory but any friends he tried to help out with the proceeds would face investigation and the possibility of arrest and even an expensive trial or plea bargain themselves

common sense says even if you are completely w.out a conscience, which would not be the case with skinner or probably anyone in this thread, you don't do stupid shit like fencing easily identifiable valuables

and keep in mind that you get a fraction of the retail value of these items anyway, at least when i was in a similar situation, i was tempted w. actual cash!

[mark11727]

114. Aren't you the guy who rolled a grenade into MrsGrumpy's thread?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x783351

I _thought_ so.

[cornermouse]

120. Well, out here in the hinterlands,

I wouldn't even recognize a Louie Vuitton bag or real jewelry if I saw them. I would recognize the cash and I would still return it. Odd as this may sound, I've discovered that if you do the right thing, you almost always feel free and you feel comfortable. That wouldn't, however, stop me from hoping they'd show enough gratitude and class to offer a small reward.

[Bridget Burke]

33. I'd give it back.

A reward would be nice but I wouldn't expect it.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

34. In this case, keep/share it.

Call me a thief if you want to, but anyone who carries a million dollars worth of anything in their purse can afford to lose it.

Of course, I'd give the vast majority of the wealth to the less fortunate.

On the other hand, if the purse had contents you'd find in a normal purse (i.e., belonging to someone not obscenely wealthy), I'd return it, no reward expected or accepted.

Flame away.

[teenagebambam]

43. Okay, I'll bite

Who am I to judge what someone else can "afford to lose"? I wear very nice clothes, most of the time. If I were walking down the street and a twenty dropped out of my pocket, a casual observer might look at me and think that losing $20 wouldn't affect me in the least. But the reality is, that 20 bucks is likely all I have to live on until the next payday. Just because someone is idiotic enough to carry a million dollars of jewelery in their handbag doesn't mean the loss of those jewels would be bearable - as I understand it, the couple was in NYC for their daughter's wedding. Maybe she brought all the jewelery she owned to wear to the wedding. Maybe she didin't trust the hotel safe. There could be a million different explanations.

And anyway - keeping something that's not yours can NEVER be justified as "okay", no matter the circumstances of the person that lost it.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

49. Okay.

There's a huge difference between $20 and $1,000,000.

The average person, regardless of attire, probably has at least one $20 in their wallet or purse. The average person does NOT have $1,000,000 worth of anything on their person.

And you're right -- there could be a million explanations, but anyone who trusts themselves with that much valuable material on them instead of a traditionally secure location like a hotel safe probably didn't care too much about the valuables in the first place.

[Horse with no Name]

55. I think you might be shocked to find that many don't have $20

on them. Remember Katrina?
All those people that didn't have money to put gas in the car to leave since it was a couple of days before payday?
How many people died because they didn't have $20?
The amount IS relative.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

57. I agree, the amount is relative.

That's why I wouldn't steal $20 from somebody. But $1,000,000 is another matter entirely, particularly since this was in a purse and not a safe deposit box.

[Horse with no Name]

61. and you could live with yourself if you were to keep the money

and find out a year or so down the road that the owner of the purse died because she could no longer afford the only treatment to cure her cancer that the insurance didn't cover?
People generally don't carry things like this around--and the "why" is much more important than the amount.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

65. Like that could ever happen.

What are the odds of someone carrying that much on their person (in the PARK, of all places) if the intent was to pay for lifesaving treatment?

Statistically speaking, you might as well assume they were paying for a trip on the space shuttle.

[Horse with no Name]

67. The point is

You have absolutely no idea why someone would carry that much money.
IF I were carrying it around, it would be for something that was equally as important and that is how I would judge the owner of the purse.
And as far as the park? Maybe she stopped to reflect on her life while watching children play...who knows.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

69. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree, then.

There are many factors in play here.

Not that it might improve my standing regarding this topic, but I wouldn't go up to someone and steal their purse right off of them, regardless of how rich they look, nor would I break into their safe deposit box (maybe except for Ken Lay or somebody :)).

But my point was that it was such a large sum of valuables and the particular circumstances of this story would not prevent me from taking it and sharing it with others less fortunate.

[Demit]

45. No, just calling you on making an erroneous if-then statement.

You don't have conclusive proof that the person can afford to lose it. You are trying to diminish the other person to make helping yourself to their property sound okay. You are trying to make it sound as if your decision is their fault.

I'd love to know from you folks who draw the line between a lot of money and a "normal purse", just where that line is. Is it $1000 dollars? $10,000? So if you find a purse with $10,001 in it you would keep it? I get this image of you all carefully counting the money to see where your ethics lie. What a sad image.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

51. The line is a million dollars.

And the conclusive proof I have that they can afford to lose it is because they had $1,000,000 in their PURSE.

Again, who the hell carries that much on them at once? Unless they were on their way to paying a hefty ransom, the odds of which are slim to none, I don't see the logic.

[Demit]

56. How would you KNOW what they were on their way to do?

Answer: you wouldn't. Any assumptions you make are just that. And it conveniently makes it okay for you to take their money. Okay for you, anyway. You don't see the logic? I don't see your ethics.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

59. I don't care if you don't see my ethics.

And if it were an extreme case like paying a ransom, wouldn't the husband have, I don't know, held on to the damn thing for dear life? Wouldn't he have noticed it was missing immediately?

[Demit]

79. Yes, you are very proudly unethical, I do see that.

And again, you are putting the onus on the injured party to explain THEIR justification for losing what you are intent on justifying keeping for yourself.

There are many possibilities in the hypothetical. Maybe the husband blacked out. Or had a heart attack. And how finely would you parse when it is totally his fault tht you are going to keep his money? If he got out of the cab and you got in and saw the bag lying there? Or if you were sitting next to him on the subway and he took his hands off the bag to sneeze? When, in your "logical" system, does the Aha! Finders keepers! kick in?

[Starbucks Anarchist]

81. Since we're splitting hairs:

First, like I said, I would give most of it away to less fortunate people than me.

But as to your hypotheticals, if the guy blacked out or had a heart attack right there, I'd focus on helping him instead of taking the money.

If the cab situation you described happened, I'd call after him and hand it over or give it to the cabbie to hold for the guy if I couldn't track the owner down. The subway situation -- I wouldn't touch the bag at all.

I was referring to this PARTICULAR situation described in the news article. In this particular case, I'd grab it. The individual in question was not starving or in dire financial straits, and clearly, had it been that important to the guy, he would have held onto it like it was his child.

We can toss around hypotheticals all day, like other posters downthread have done, but I'm telling you that if this particular situation described in the article transpired, I'd grab it.

We're not going to agree on this, so it's pointless to keep going in circles here.

EDIT: If I was "proudly unethical," as you say, wouldn't I keep it all for myself instead of sharing most of it with less fortunate people, as I described in my OP?

[Demit]

82. Yes. As Churchill supposedly said to the woman who agreed she would

sleep with him for a million pounds but not for five because What did he think she was?--"That has been established, madam. We are only left to haggle about the price". Buh-bye.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

83. Later.

:eyes:

[pitohui]

100. see post 98, you'd go to jail

there is no finders keepers and "sharing" your "find" with the less fortunate will not prevent you from facing the consequences when you are tracked down

this is valuable property, easily identifiable and traceable

you would go to prison, in the case i cite from jefferson parish, louisiana, the lady found the $250,000 in her own bank account and she still went to jail when she spent it

i will submit that most banks are obscenely wealthy and have insurance to boot, nonetheless, stealing is still stealing even if your victim is wealthy and giving stolen goods away just entangles others in your crime

if you give some of the loot or cash to family members especially, good chance they'd be charged as your accessories

hell of a gift! you could destroy your whole family or circle of friends

[Starbucks Anarchist]

119. I'm assuming I wouldn't get caught.

I know the odds are low, but since we're discussing hypotheticals, the guarantee of not getting caught would factor in.

[Kailassa]

35. I've returned several wallets but always looked through them first.

... just because I'm an inquisitive bitch. I know I shouldn't, but, although the money didn't tempt me, despite being broke and hungry, I could not resist a look inside someone else's life.

And one wallet, found jammed between 2 train seats, had a dozen different driver's licences and other photo ID, each with the same photo but different names. It turned out he was a wanted crim, and the police were delighted to have that handed in. I don't think returning it to the owner was exactly what they were planning.

What makes me automatically return something I find, or hand it in to the police, is the fact that people , several times, have gone to quite a bit of trouble to return things to me that I've lost. Once I was on a rollercoaster with my children, all of our small supply of money and our train tickets home in a purse in my pocket. Climbing down the stairs from the ride afterwards I was stopped by a strange man who was asking something that was getting a lot of people irate.
"Could you please show me your purse?" he asked me.
There was something sincere about him, so I tried to, and realised to my horror that the pocket it had been in was empty. I was absolutely flabberghasted When he pulled it out and gave it to me. He explained he'd been walking underneath and it had dropped on his head, and he didn't dare just ask everyone if they'd lost a purse, because many people say yes.

It's something worth remembering when we choose our actions. Everything we do lives on in the memories of the people around us, and has an effect on what they will do in the future. If we want the world to be a better place, we need to act in the way we'd like others to act.

[tammywammy]

121. I've worked places where people have accidentally left their wallet behind

I've always looked through them. 1 to find out who's it is. and of course 2 I'm a little snoopy.

I've also never been tempted to take their money. You know once, I left my wallet behind in a restaurant, and how surprising it would have been if the $80 I had in there hadn't been taken out when I retrieved it the next day. $80 may seem like a lot, but I had only spent $10 that night and the rest was for my trip the next day to visit my grandpa for the weekend (and treat him to a couple of dinners).

If I found a purse with $1 million in it, I'd do the same as when I find a wallet with $20, $40, $100 in it, return it.

[DrGonzoLives]

37. You do what is right regardless of the monetary value

I don't care if this is some rich putz with too much money to know what to do with, it doesn't justify theft, nor an attitude that you "deserve" something for it.

[Heidi]

38. I'd return it.

It's the right thing to do, and as further incentive to do the right thing, I wouldn't want the bad mojo that eventually would come around for doing the wrong thing.

[Horse with no Name]

39. Why is this a dilemma?

It's not yours. Return it.

[BlooInBloo]

58. I think there's a bit of poor choice of wording around.....

It looks to me like there's 3 basic camps here:

(1) I return what isn't mine. End of question (as given by the OP).

(2) Morally, you're supposed to return the bag, but I might not because I'm overcome by temptation (or whatever reason).

(3) I'm not even morally required to return the bag because that moral requirement is TRUMPED by X.
(where X can be several things: the fact that they "obviously didn't want it", or "to feed Sally Struthers' kids, or whatever)



I'm a (1). I can understand people in (2) - people just do the wrong thing sometimes.

But (3) strikes me as completely bizarre. I suspect that position exists because it's proponents lack the self-honesty to admit being a (2). But maybe they actually believe it - who knows?

[Horse with no Name]

60. It's really very simple

It's not mine, it never was, it never will be.
Give it back.:shrug:

[BlooInBloo]

62. Oh I'm with ya....

... just tryin to get clear on the rhetorical landscape is all... :)

[Skinner]

63. Hey, BlooInBloo.

Did you just accuse me of being dishonest?

[BlooInBloo]

64. hell no!

EDIT: must... find... new... thread... He'll never find me there... mwahahahaha!

[Skinner]

68. Phew! I'm glad to hear that.

Because it sounded like you were doing exactly that.

But I will take you at your word when you say "Hell no," and ignore the contrary evidence that is sitting in front of my face, because you have already told us on numerous occasions here in this thread that you are honest person.

[BlooInBloo]

73. Excellent!

[bloom]

97. It is interesting

how people will rationalize dishonesty.


I think it depends on how important one's belief that one is a good and honest person.

For some people that think that many/most people are also dishonest - then one would be more likely to rationalize dishonesty. Or if someone had something against rich people - or somehow didn't see some people as being worth being concerned about - for one reason or another - it would probably be easy to "rationalize". As if it's rational to be dishonest.

I think a lot of people are honest because for one thing - the world seems like a better place when people are honest. So they would rather contribute to that instead of contributing to a world that is comprised of thievery and dishonesty. And there probably IS an element of - and that makes me one of the good guys. And I think that is a good thing - not a bad thing.

[johnnie]

50. Here is what I would do in this case

It would seem to me that this man and woman has a lot of money. So I would contact the wife and tell her that it is unbelievable that her husband hates her so bad that he forgot her purse, and I would make sure she knew that I was a "good guy" that I was returning her purse with no expectations of a reward.

Then I would continue to talk to her here and there and continue to get her to start hating her husband and eventually I would get her to divorce the guy. Then BAM!, I make my moves, schmooze her and eventually talk her into marriage. Hopefully she is in her 90s or so and I kick back and wait for all of my hard work to pay off.


:evilgrin:




I kid of course.

[BlooInBloo]

53. Way to go Anthony Nicole Smith! LOL

[Demit]

54. Here's another interesting question, seawolf. Let's turn it around.

Say it was you who had a purse, or a case, full of money and jewelry worth $1 million. Only it was because you had just gathered together all your worldly worth because you were on your way to use it for something. Doesn't matter what--maybe you were going to pay off terrorists who had kidnapped your spouse, or you were on your way to make settlement on a house. How would you like someone assuming that you didn't need the money?

[Nye Bevan]

66. This debate reminds me of the book, "A Simple Plan"

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0312952716/qid=1143640572/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/103-9117238-0324654?s=books&v=glance&n=283155

in which 3 guys find $4 million in a small plane that has crashed.

They decide to keep it, and things do not go as well as they expected. An excellent book, and also a pretty good movie with Billy Bob Thornton.

[gollygee]

70. Return it. When we do the right thing we make the world a better place

when we do the wrong thing we make the world a worse place.

[Rabrrrrrr]

71. I'd return it. It's the only ethical response. Even if I had children who

needed medicine, I'd return it.

In fact, I HAVE returned wallets and purses that I've found. And i have no idea how much money was in them, because I looked into them only so far as to find the name of the owner.

[Nye Bevan]

74. Children needing medicine would make it tougher

I had mentally put myself into the "return without question" camp, but your post got me wondering....

Say one of my kids might die without an operation that would cost $50,000, and I had no money or insurance. I then found a purse containing $1 million.

In this case, I would take the $50,000 out of the purse before returning it. So I guess I am not as honest as I originally thought.

[Horse with no Name]

75. Desperate people do desperate things

Altruism is the least of your worries if you have a sick or dying child. At that point, who could blame anyone for making a difficult choice?

[BlooInBloo]

76. It's completely possible to come up with "gerrymandered extensions"...

... of the OP's situation according to which it's completely morally permissible to not return the bag.

In fact, using the wide-world of hypothesis, it's easy: Suppose all 6 billion people would be horrifically tortured if you returned the bag, and nothing bad would happen if you didn't. Hopefully you'll agree that it's morally permissible to not return the bag in this case.

Far-fectched? Sure. But you get to create your hypotheticals, and I get to create mine.

I don't think that such hypotheticals illustrate one's dishonesty. Rather they illustrate that the honesty moral requirement can, in SOME situations be trumped by other moral considerations. Of course, there can be a lot of argument about exactly WHICH situations those are. I tried to hypothesize one that would get widespread agreement. The single-sick-child hypothesis I suspect would be more divisive.

[Canuckistanian]

78. I'm not a fence - I'd return it

Nor would I want to get invovled with a fence. And jewellers and pawn-shop operators are not idiots.

If they smell anything suspicious, they'll slam the door and call the cops.

Besides, it's just the right thing to do.

[sinkingfeeling]

84. The very same thing that Suhrhoff did: return it at once.

[nemo137]

85. That is alot of money, and I'd be glad of it, but

I'd return it. That's just the thing to do.

[Blue Diadem]

87. I'd turn it over to the police and not even look inside to know

what was in it. It's what I've always done..what my dad did too. I would expect no reward for doing something I consider right.

[Booster]

88. I'd return it, but if I were the woman, I would give the man the cash.

[Javaman]

89. What was she doing with a million dollars worth of jewelry in her purse

in the first place????

[KittyWampus]

91. In Japan, people leave their wallets on ballpark seats to save them

and money is left laying on the streets because to pick it up means taking responsibility for returning it to the rightful owner. If someone borrows an umbrella from the police kiosks... the umbrella is returned.

In Northern Europe, some cities have bikes that are left on the streets for whoever needs them.

[pitohui]

92. you might as well return it

there is no way you are going to legally launder $1 million dollars worth of jewelry

in theory the crackheads get 10 cents on the dollar -- the wholesale dollar -- when they sell to fences

in reality this amount of gems couldn't be moved, you'd have to break up the pieces so they couldn't be identified, melt the gold, etc. and what you'd left with would be, hell, i doubt the "finder" (in most cases the person had to work pretty hard to "find" the gems) would get 5 or 10 grand

not worth the risk of going to prison

i've known of several cases where supposedly valuable items went missing and then were quietly "found" and returned when the "finder" realized that there was no actual market available to the average person of those items

i make no judgement over whether this person actually "found" the items or regretted an impulse, i've known it to happen both ways, but i doubt the husband just "forgot" one million dollars without distraction that he will not be admitting to any time soon

my reward offered in such cases is only a token, like $50 or so, because i do not want to encourage future "finders"

this caution may be because in my personal experience, it has been valuable animals that have been "found" and returned for the reward, and when idiots are giving $500 rewards, suddenly a whole lot of other pets go missing in the neighborhood, i have actually had to contact some of my neighbors and ask them to offer a more reasonable reward that doesn't put all of our animals at risk of being "found," most of my neighbors are not just a little bit but a LOT more well-to-do than i and don't realize how what seems like pocket change to them (the $500) is a big deal to the criminal mind

a reward should be a small thank you, NOT a lottery win

[newspeak]

94. I lived in a tourist town for a while

I have two instances of returning purses to the police and my hubby had one. When people go on vacation, I believe some get so consumed with the attractions, they leave their head behind. Hubby was at Arches Nat'l Park and a woman left her purse on top of the car, then drove away. He immediately took it to authorities. She was so thankful because all of their vacation money was in it. While working at a local shop, someone left their purse behind and I immediately called the police. The other time, there was a vehicle almost parked next to mine, I left my door unlocked (small town), well the woman got into our vehicle instead of theirs and left her purse behind when she found out she was in the wrong vehicle. When I got home I told my mom she forgot her purse in the car and she said it wasn't hers. I immediately took it to authorities, however, when I filed the report I could hear the officer talking to the secretary and he didn't believe the story. I WAS FURIOUS! Anyway, the woman who lost her purse was greatful (she was visiting from Mass.) She sent a thankyou card and some state potholders. It was a nice gesture, but I really didn't expect anything. Yes, a reward is nice, but the real reward is knowing that you have integrity, honesty. I would never take something that is not mine to take, it is stealing!!! Period. I do not expect a reward for doing what is right.

[Neil Lisst]

96. Return it. I have a thing about "found money."

I avoid it. If I find it, and it is not mine, you'd better believe I'll find who it belongs to, or give it to charity. No found money for me. I think found money is bad karma.


I've been tested on this, too. Once during a Christmas rush, a harried teller gave me $1100 in cash instead of $100 for my check. That was a grand back when a grand was real money.

I've had other such events, but the point is: you should never let yourself even consider for a moment taking money not yours. I don't castigate anyone who thinks for a little bit "man, I sure could use this." It's what you do in the end that counts, even if you consider otherwise.

[pitohui]

106. found money need not be bad karma

sometimes the universe wants you to have something but spirit or whatever can arrange for a way to get it to you w.out violating your ethics

years ago i found $400, just 4 one hundred dollar bills on the ground outside my house, ho-kay, that is not bad karma, there is clearly no way to get it back to any individual, it was meant for me and i will not insult spirit by throwing it back in the face of the universe, things did start to get better for me and the money did help

another time i found a wallet with several hundred dollars but plenty of ID, here, i could and did easily track the owner and return it

you can tell when the great pumpkin or whoever wants you to have something

i wouldn't trust any great who-knows who wanted to make a thief or a fence of me, that is bad karma for sure! :-)

[devilgrrl]

104. Return it.

It doesn't belong to me.

[NV Whino]

108. Here's something that no one has mentioned

Why turn it over to the police? You are adding another person or persons with ethical dilemmas of their own to the mix.

Here's what I would do.
1. Contact the person directly.
2. Accept a reward if one was offered.
3. Be content if no reward was offered.
4. Suggest she have a serious talk with her husband about responsibility.

That is (except for #4) what I have done in similar situations and $1 million dollars in jewlery doesn't change the situation... for me, anyway.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

109. A real life situation....

I have been on both ends of this situation -- I have lost and found.

My change purse containing my cashed out paycheck (a meager $325 back in the day) fell out of my purse at a Lyon's. Thank the gods someone found it and left it with the cashier. They took nothing and left no name. To some, $325 may not have meant much, but it was all the money I had and was important to me.

Just a few weeks ago, I was at Taco Bell counter when I glanced down and found a $5 bill on the floor. I picked it up and looked around to find who might have dropped it. There was no one else near the counter at the time or walking away from it. It was just $5 bucks, something most folks would never have missed. There was no one around who it appeared to belong to.

So, did I keep it?

No, I didn't.

I left it on the counter and told the manager that someone had dropped it.

That's the way I was raised.

Now, if I was unwilling to take $5 that didn't belong to me, what do you think I would have done with the purse? :)

What that man who returned the purse -- no strings atatched -- did was completely ethical behavior. What you propose is unethical.

It really is that simple.

[nonconformist]

110. In all honesty, I just don't know.

I'd like to think that I would return it, and I wouldn't have the faintest idea how to "move" a million dollars worth of jewels... but if I'm being completely honest, I just.don't.know. That amount of money would be life changing to my entire family.

[Ignis]

111. Poor Robin Hood would get pilloried in this thread! (nt)

[Katherine Brengle]

112. I would return it, BUT...

I have to admit that:

1) I would return it out of fear of getting caught keeping it just as much as out of a desire to do the right thing;

2) I would be tempted not to;

3) Part of me would be annoyed that someone else had that much money that they could just have a million dollars worth of jewelry sitting in a damn purse.

[Katherine Brengle]

113. Adding a personal example--

Not as much money, but...

A few years ago I was working at a CVS in my hometown, and I found $800 in cash sitting in the candy in front of the counter. It looked like someone had just dropped it by accident.

I picked it up and for a split second considered just sticking it in my pocket.

Then I put it in an envelope and brought it to my manager.

The guy who had lost it came in about an hour later looking for it. It turned out he was the president of this company trying to get a contract to build wind turbines offshore in Nantucket Sound, and he offered me a job because I had given the money back.

I didn't end up taking it, but I felt really good about it, which was worth it in my mind.

(For the record: At 19 yrs old, $800 was a lot of money.)

[electron_blue]

115. the guilt would eat me up if I kept it. I'd get more joy from returning it

[Buns_of_Fire]

116. I think I would've had a heart attack and died on the spot...

as soon as I saw the $500, all in one place, all at the same time.

But assuming I survived the initial shock, I know I would have gone with my first instinct and turned it in to the authorities as quickly as humanly possible. The keywords there being "as quickly as humanly possible" -- because I also know that if I let the situation roll around in my impoverished and mercenary little mind long enough, that woman would be out at least $500.

IOW, I'd do the right thing. But I'd have to do it fast, before I talked myself out of it.

[Tsiyu]

117. Where I work customers are always losing things.

Right now in my office there's an iPod, a Driver's license, and who knows what else since I left this morning.

WE find people's credit cards, purses, phones, cameras, jewelry, wallets and even a bag of clean underwear once.

These items ( cept the underwear) are locked in the office and returned if possible to the owner. If not they are turned over to our management.

In the case of coats, hats, scarves and gloves, we only hold these a few months, then they are donated to whoever needs a nice coat, hat, scarf.

In the case of alcohol, cigarettes and quarters, finder's keepers once we close.

My employees always turn in what they find (I believe - because wallets and people always get re-united) and I would have it no other way.

[Mr.Green93]

118. Fondle the contents

Then return it.

[The Straight Story]

122. Donate it to DU

And see what skinner does...

[Kailassa]

123. And now for the REAL story.

Shahla and he husband Chuck apeared to have a happy marriage, but things were not as they seemed. He'd married her for her money, and was now spending it as fast as he could on three demanding mistresses. He'd long ago had paste replicas made of her jewellery, and pawned the originals, thinking she would never notice, but now she was changing her insurance company and they wanted to have an expert do new valuations.

However he'd not been called lucky Chucky for nothing, and the man who could talk his way out of a paper bag was quick to find an ingenious solution. Shahla was thrilled to hear he wanted to spend the day with her for a change, and even showed enough caring to suggest they bring all her jewellery with them to keep it safe, as the new policy had not yet been signed.

The next part is easy, Buy her drinks, then spend so long in the park with her she has to use the park's "facilities". Of course she couldn't take such an expensive handbag into a public toilet; there would be grot on the floor and no hook to hang the bag on. As soon as she returns he worries about her being out late in such a rough neighbourhood, and hurries her back to the airport. She is so glad to be taken care of, and assumes her handbag is underneath the jacket he has over his arm.

On the plane ... "My bag, darling, I need to redo my lippie."
"Your bag? What bag? Oh, goodness, I must have just left it behind on that park bench, or perhaps it fell off into that pile of bushes 20 feet from where we were. Sorry dear, but don't worry. I'll buy you a new lippy tomorrow."

There was just one thing the Chuck had not counted on, some people in this world are still honest.

This is a work of fiction, but somehow it sounds a lot more believable than the story quoted by the OP.

Seriously, who buys a Cartier watch and keeps it in a handbag? You buy those things to wear. And taking a million dollars worth of diamond jewellery on a sight-seeing trip to a park? And then it all gets left behind on a park bench? This story couldn't stink worse if the bag had been stuffed with stale salmon.