mexicans in mexico ought to kick lou dobbs' ass out of mexico using the

[flordehinojos]

same arrogant tones he uses against brown skinned mexicans in this country. they also ought to kick bush's ass out of their land. bush is no friend of the mass of people who must struggle to survive, who get paid 4o cents an hour by american corporations in their country, and find that they are on the wrong side of the rio grande, come here and then get maltreated by corporatist supremacist here as well.

lou dobbs and george bush ought to, by command of the people, just get their asses out of mexico right now!

[notadmblnd]

1. Lou Dobbs is there legaly and isn't there to take anyones job

I'm sorry I have to disagree with you on this. Lou dobbs is against the exploitation of forgein workers who are here illegaly. I don't see his views as racism. What I see as racism is how the corportocracy is enslaving another people to further their stockholder interest.

[flordehinojos]

2. why isn't lou dobbs makign the same point about white skinned foreigners

who are also here illegally? the man is a racist. if he were defending the immigrants against exploitation, he might be arguing in favor of their becoming legalized in this country. instead, he wants to send them back. he has no right to stand on a soil that puts out the so many brown skinned people that he so ardently wants out of this country and they should kick him out!

[notadmblnd]

3. Lou's main point about illegal immigration is the fact that US

does not care to secure the border. One of the questions he asked last night was... why does Vincente Fox hate Mexicans? Lou doesn't seem to understand why the Mexician government would want it's people to risk their lives getting to this country.

He says securing the border has to be the fist step in reforming immigration policy. I'v never heard Lou say .. just the Mexicans... Lou is against all illegal immigation.

I've heard Lou criticize the US government, the Mexican government, bush and Fox but I've never heard him criticize the Mexican people working illegaly, in a racist manner.

[flordehinojos]

5. "why does vicente fox hate mexicans?" --that sounds just like a bush spin

which evidently lou dobbs has learned very well. why do americans hate mexicans? why do they take their corporations to mexico, pay the mexican workers 40 cents a day and then continue to hate them when they come across the river to make a few more dollars? why did the americans take land from mexico to aggrandize texas? why is he just talking about vicente fox hating mexicans and not about the canadian border? why does he advocate in favor of making mexicans (that is what illegal immigration is tantamount to these days) criminals and terrorists for crossing a border? does he not see how his spewing incites the minute men and all other racists to go after the brown skinned mexicans? he must, because anyone who is paying attention surely can.

[adriennui]

13. has vicente done anything

to better the economic conditions in mexico? do you condemn mexico's draconian policy concerning its' southern border?

we have a perfect right to have an orderly immigration process.


the chimp and vicente are in bed together. vicente gets rid of his underclass and we get cheap labor (which hurts our working people).

[Bridget Burke]

117. Bush & Fox met at the beginning of Bush's term.

Fox had a plan for guest workers in the US. He also wanted to work on incentives to convince Mexicans to return to Mexico. Not the best plan--but a plan. Bush did nothing. Nada.

Since then, Bush & Fox have disagreed about capital punishment & mistreatment of Mexicans in this country. Bush was also royally pissed that Fox refused to join the attack on Iraq.

[EFerrari]

22. Of course this incites the racist Thug base. They have to

keep them interested in some manner.

I'd go watch clips of the amazing marcha with all those great kids, and stop watching that pendejo.

[mondo joe]

29. And your "hate Mexicans" BS sounds like "Why do you hate America?" BS.

And incidentally, doing something illegal DOES make you a criminal.

[EFerrari]

32. You know that's a circular argument. Come on, argue the issues

and please stop trotting out this baloney.

We've passed a lot of really stooooooopid laws -- like the one that made blowjobs illegal in Georgia.

We know Karl has been saving this one for 2006. Can we please act like rational people and not just march right into his game?

[mondo joe]

35. Please stop implying people are racists.

And if you think a law should be changed, work to change it.

[EFerrari]

44. I'm not implying. I'm saying outright and plainly

there has been a lot of racist crap on DU this week.

And for your second suggestion, absolutely. I have been.

[mondo joe]

45. There have been a lot of ACCUSATIONS of racism.

Unfortunately.

[EFerrari]

50. Yes. And in case you haven't noticed, mondo, most of our

Hispanic DUers have been trying very hard all week to understand, to spread FACT, and to try to diffuse the wave of hostility that has come over us.

It has been unfortunate.

[mondo joe]

52. What I noticed is that anyone who disagrees is targetted as a racist. eom

[EFerrari]

54. I haven't seen that. That would be dirty pool and, disgusting.

I'm mostly thinking about instances like the assumption that everyone in those marches is an "illegal alien" when the vast majority are citizens -- undocumented workers can't take the risk of being busted. In Los Angeles, there were unions and Greens and God knows who else marching with them.

The larger point is: when we fight each other, they win.

[mondo joe]

56. Depends on who you think "we" are.

I'm an American.

I'm a Democrat.

[EFerrari]

58. That's a very good point. n/t

[flordehinojos]

114. so why is bush, who ascended to the presidency illegally,

invaded iraq illegally, continues to occupy iraq illegally, and is wiretapping you and me illegally,
not then been thrown out of the white house and put in a jail cell where he belongs along with all of his goonish administration? please tell me why?

[napi21]

99. WHY would a Mexican worker ever work for 40 cents?

I seriously doubt the wages are THAT LOW! I'm sure they're lower than what's paid in the US or the Co's wouldn't have moved there.

You're also wrong about Lou. His statement is ALWAYS "Punish the employer for the illegal hiring practices! I have NEVER heard him blame te workers! IF you ever watch his show you'd know that.

[EFerrari]

100. Hunger. Why is this so hard to understand? n/t

[napi21]

102. I understand hunger, but I've been to Mexico, and although the

prices are lower on most things than in the US, they aren't THAT LOW!

NO ONE could buy ANYTHING for the wages you stated. Not even in Mexico!

[EFerrari]

103. I didn't state any wages. This is the deal.

Undocumented workers come to this country because their families need to EAT.

Not to steal jobs. Not to use up services. Not to fullfill some paranoid ideation of an economy of lack.

They come here to try to feed their family. And while they are here, they are as vulnerable as possible.

We are too far removed from that kind of hunger to understand.

[Saphire]

134. have you ever been to the real Mexico...where they live in hovels

with dirt floors. They don't buy anything, they are to poor.

[guinivere]

123. I did see the other day on cnn

that the average wage in Mexico is $4 and change PER DAY.

[lovuian]

140. Let see the mexican wage is $4 Vietnameese wage is $3

and the Chineese is $2 ... talk about CHEAP LABOR...

What needs to be done is raising all the wages all over the world so nobody is going to come across our borders... but thats not happening...

Now we have an off balance trade deficit...

Lou Dobbs is fighting for the American worker...:woohoo:

[VirtualChicano]

131. huh?

my wife is Remax agent here and in moterrey nuevo leon mx

maybe you work for 40 cents but i dont know any mexicans that do

there are poor people in BOTH countries

[EFerrari]

18. "Illegal immigration" is code for Hispanics in the same way

running on "law and order" was/is code for segregation.

[twiterpatted]

11. your argument is childish at best. We don't here about white

skinned illegal immigration because they don't cross over from Canada by the millions every year in one mile tunnels. You accusation of racism is used to bloody the waters of debate.

[EFerrari]

21. Bull. What else do you call the mass exploitation of brown skinned

people who are then blamed for their situation?

That seems like a very familiar American argument to me, and a racist one.

[manic expression]

23. And THAT

is about as American as apple pie. I hope it's not just me, but it seems most people in this country think that poor people are responsible for their situation, and are simply too lazy to do anything about it. They think the rich deserve to live in luxury and greed while others struggle to find food and shelter (not to mention healthcare). The fact that you can work 70 hours a week in a legitimate job and still not be able to provide efficiently for one or more mouths matters not; they are lazy, and "we" deserve to enjoy what "we" have.

:puke:

[EFerrari]

26. There is a lovely little film directed by gringo Robert Redford

"The Milagro Beanfield War". I love this line, "When we fight each other instead of them, they win."

:hi:

[RagingInMiami]

97. I used to think that was only a republican trait

"It seems most people in this country think that poor people are responsible for their situation, and are simply too lazy to do anything about it."

[twiterpatted]

38. The cause of the mass exploitation, which you correctly call it, is not

racism, but greed and criminal behavior on the part of small and medium size business owners as well as those who seek advantage by their desperate circumstances. It is immoral, unethical, illegal. Not racist.

You say they are "blamed for their situation". I say they are burdened by their situation. They come here to work for relative good money. I would like them to be able to do this. My point is that we need some rules in play and we need to require business to follow the rules so that evil, immoral and unethical people don't take advantage of the immigrants and thereby depress wages for everyone.

Do you still think I am a racist?

[EFerrari]

49. I have not called anyone a racist and that is a loaded question.

I said that argument was a familiar and American one and a racist one. There is a difference.

We need to get these workers out of the underground they are forced to live in. It is a bad situation for everyone except the corporations it enriches.

[twiterpatted]

60. When you refer to my argument as racist, which you did, you

by extension apply that label to me. How can someone make a racist argument without being a racist? Only republicans can do that.

Peace!

[EFerrari]

62. No, actually people who debate can pick up an argument

and use it without realizing its ramifications. Debaters do that all that time.

I haven't noticed that Republicans are particularly skilled in this area? :shrug:

[twiterpatted]

67. Huh!!,

This is what i wrote,"How can someone make a racist argument without being a racist"?

You say they can as long as they don't know what they are talking about. What!
If this is the case then you don't have a debate. Its kinda hard to make a racist argument and not know your making a racist argument.

I just hurt myself.

[EFerrari]

71. Well, I guess I could point out that being afraid of

brown people using your tax dollars in emergency wards is a legitimate fear that doesn't necessarily take into account facts or any kind of awareness of how brown people feel, cope or manage. Or, other examples in the same vein.

There's a lot of hysteria and mistatement and misinformation floating around here at the moment.

But, yes, it is perfectly possible to forward an argument that is, at bottom, racist and to be unaware of it.

If I wanted to call out a racist, I would just do that. I haven't.

[twiterpatted]

75. There you go, I believe you may be unaware of what you are

saying to me. This is what you posted.

"Well, I guess I could point out that being afraid of
brown people using your tax dollars in emergency wards is a legitimate fear that doesn't necessarily take into account facts or any kind of awareness of how brown people feel, cope or manage"

You use the phrase brown people rather then illegal immigrants because it works to your goal of painting people, like me, who may disagree with you, as racist.

FACT ONE. There are racist who oppose immigration, but they oppose legal and illegal and the opposition has at its core a racist element.

That is not who I am, yet your play word games that essentially accuse me of bing that kind of person. You chose to use brown people over illegal immigrants on purpose didn't you?

[EFerrari]

I think it might be a good idea for you to spend a moment

thinking about the difference between a person and their behavior, a debater and their argument.

And, you bet, I chose to point out the incipient racism in this whole situation.

[twiterpatted]

81. That a very honest reply and I respect that.

Incipient racism is alive and well in America. Racism has bored itself deep into the unconsciousness of Americans. Many people behave and react to this unconscious racism and have no idea they are doing it. This type of racism is the worst of all as it cannot be directly confronted.

I believe illegal immigration lowers the value of labor in America. Business pays "brown" people less because they can get away with it. This lowers the value of labor across the board.

Are you pro-illegal immigration? Do you think there is a problem with illegal immigration in America? Do you see the distinction between legal and illegal immigration?

[EFerrari]

86. This is what I know: I lived in the Los Angeles area for only

about two years. I saw the unions there making common cause with undocumented workers. I saw everything improve -- slowly, but improve. Because WORKERS were on the same page.

I think this whole underground of people who are exploited and who have no recourse to law enforcement is a horrible situation. I had to help a lady who couldn't report a sexual assault for fear of deportation. It was the most awful thing you could imagine. So, no! I'm not "pro illegal immigration".

But, because I am a progressive, I don't believe that people should be punished for trying to survive in any way they can. Not punished for their poverty, or their hunger, or for their hope of a better life.

There is a distinction between legal and illegal immigration. And it has more to do with how hungry you are than how moral you'd like to be, imho.

My mom's whole family came here, legally, from El Salvador. The family was riven for years as everyone got their own papers in order. And 7 of 10 of them vote Dem. :)

I think the problem is, working people are being set against each other as usual, while the people who create wealth from this situation get a pass.

And, that's too bad. I believe we can be better and smarter than that.

[twiterpatted]

91. So what do we do?

I feel for the poor, displaced and used just like you do. Do we not have to be adults though and stop the flow of illegal immigrants and send back those without children born here?

[EFerrari]

93. The progressive position is to support workers and human rights. n/t

[twiterpatted]

139. Are you the one in charge of progressive positions?

What do we do about iligal immigration?

[mondo joe]

77. There you go again. "Afraid of brown people."

The other poster said nothing of the sort.

You should be ashamed of yourself.

[EFerrari]

78. No, I was illustrating a point. And I stand by my statements. n/t

[mondo joe]

79. Of course you do. You don't hesitate to imply that those who disagree

with you are racists.

A cheap, low blow. If you had a valid argument regarding immigration you wouldn't stoop to this.

[EFerrari]

82. So, I should just shut up about racism? Nice.

And how you have managed to avoid the arguments I've made about this issue, I don't know.

If I shut up about racism, mondo, it won't go away. It will still be here, dividing progressives.

And, thank you for your personal attack. I can handle it.

[mondo joe]

84. No, you shouldn't call people racists just because they disagree.

Who told you to shut up about ACTUAL racism?

Not me.

[EFerrari]

87. If that is what it seems like to you, I 'm sorry. That isn't what I set o

to do.

Reasonable people can disagree.

[Bridget Burke]

118. It's not always racism.

Sometimes it's xenophobia.

[twiterpatted]

83. She was not accusing me, she was just illustrating a point with

a ham fist.

[EFerrari]

88. Noted. n/t

[LaurenG]

4. Lou Dobbs?

I never found him to be prejudiced. I really wish we could all just calm down. The point is; what are we going to do with so many people here illegally, how will we keep up with the rising costs of caring for those who work but pay no taxes to help keep our hospitals, roads, etc. in good working order? We are all dependent on each other believe it or not. It isn't fair or legal to come here and not pay your fair share. When people come here illegally it puts a burden on those who pay taxes. Since the most wealthy pay little in taxes the burden is falling on middle class America. We can't afford our own health care yet many immigrants, not just from Mexico, enjoy free health care. Our system isn't set up to operate that way so again the burden falls where?

There is the rub. No one wants to see anyone in need; citizens or immigrants but if the tax base can't afford to take care of it's citizens how long will it be before undocumented workers fall through the cracks as well? This is only one of the issues we are facing here. Don't make it about race because it isn't. It really is about what we can realistically do.

[flordehinojos]

6. many of the illegal immigrants who are here have obtained social security

numbers and do pay taxes and support themselves with themeager salaries that they make. many of them live in sort of communal houses. and many of them, by the low wages that they make, bolster our own sense of wellness--particularly that of the corporatists who keep in their pockets the many coins that they should be paying those who work for them.

[LaurenG]

8. Many are better citizens than a lot of people born here

I know that. In the meantime we have to be realistic, we are going to have to come to terms with the fact that we have to set some limits, not just on Mexican immigrants, on ALL illegal entry into the US. That really is the bottom line, really.

[lovuian]

141. But most of them don't have healthcare and don't pay for it

we the American people pay for it...
and that is a fact

The hospitals and the governement are picking up the total tab here...

[Leilani]

7. Lou has recently criticized the country of Ireland

& all the Irish illegals.

He also talks about Chinese being smuggled into the country.

Sounds like you're not a regular Dobbs viewer.

[twiterpatted]

9. I've had enough of members on the board blurring the distinction

between legal and illegal immigration. It's impossible to have a real discussion on this topic when members blather such complete non-sense such as "why doesn't Lou complained about the white illegal immigrants". Such question are simple straw man arguments.

[RagingInMiami]

14. You've been here five days and you've already "had enough" ?

Perhaps this is not the board for you.

[twiterpatted]

17. If I left , you would miss the depth of critical thought and insight I

bring to this board. I've been here five days and you must admit, my presence and genius, nay wisdom, have been beneficial.

P.S. picking on the new guy for being the new guy is cheap.
P.S.S I am a long time lurker, since before Bush.
P.S.S.S. Why so quick to play the "you can find a new board card"?

[ContraBass Black]

20. Before Bush?

I didn't realize DU had been around that long.

[EFerrari]

25. It hasn't. n/t

[ContraBass Black]

28. Indeed. It's even more a quandary since DU started on

Bush's first inauguration day. Even people who just started visiting have probably heard that.

I wonder what this says about this new/oltimer's other statements?

[twiterpatted]

46. Shame on you ContraBass Black

I had another profile here years ago, with an old email address. I stopped posting at least three years ago after Clark lost the nomination to Kerry.

This message board has been the greatest source of sanity and information for me for a very long time. There is no place else anywhere on the net where I can informed discussion and good comedy and I resent your vague accusation that I am dishonest. Shame on you. How dare you question my integrity. I never thought i would be insulted like this on this message board. Shame on you again.

[Marie26]

48. Sorry, but

If you didn't think you would be insulted on this message board, you haven't been around very long. :)

[twiterpatted]

53. Enough with the Message Board Snobbery, I get it... you've been

here along time... you have a high post number. So every post I make that you don't like, you quip about my post number. If that floats your boat, have at it. For some people this place is like a high school click. In the past I would skim over post's like yours. Now that I am the target, I may go back to lurking. Jeez!

Sorry MARIE26, I JUST SAW YOUR SMILEY FACE. ooopppsss

[mondo joe]

55. It's a sad irony that we want to win more people over, but when they

join DU they are dissed for being new.

[Marie26]

61. It's OK!

I was sort of making a joke; just to say that you'll need a tough hide to post at DU. After a while, people will start to know who you are & take what you say to heart. There's a lot of trolls around right now, so people are suspicious. But I just wanted to say, hang in there, & when people see your sincerity, the clique will let you in. Welcome to DU! :toast:

[twiterpatted]

76. Hug!

[ContraBass Black]

59. I don't care about post count.

But if you say that you've been reading DU longer than DU has been around while you're stating why you should be taken seriously, that makes me skeptical of your integrity.

If I'm mistaken, correct me and I'll apologize.

[twiterpatted]

64. ContraBass Black, you got me dead to rights on this one.

I was not exactly specific on the date I started lurking on this board. If feels like it was prior to bush. I think maybe that was just Buzzflash and mediawhoresonline back then. In fact I think I learned of DU from Buzzflash. Either way you found me out to be the obvious fraud you clearly wish me to be. Thanks to your great investigative work and profound knowledge of all things DU you've taken down a total fake and serial exaggerate who should not be taken seriously due to his inexact post with regards to the exact start date of DU. Your skepticism of my integrity is equally warranted due to the obvious exaggeration, on my part, regarding the above mention DU start dates. Thanks to you, mighty truth seeker, I will now close my account with DU and slink away in shame.

....................................

You turned your disagreement with me into a personal attack against me. I have no desire to correct you. I prefer you take joy in your pleasant fictions regarding my integrity.

[ContraBass Black]

68. Your knife-like wit has forced me to confront my arrogance.

Why, I've missed the point of DU altogether!

By what kind of damning myopia could I have dared to raise an eyebrow as you asserted your value as a poster and the low quality of many others' posts and then bolstered it with a mistaken statement?

Shame on me! Shame on me indeed!

Shamed, I will now curl up under my keyboard and cry.

[twiterpatted]

69. Step off my High Horse, I got here first.

peace!

[ContraBass Black]

70. Peace to you also.

May we meet again in friendlier discussion, or not meet at all.

[Bridget Burke]

120. So--did you vote for Kerry, even though your hero wasn't the nominee?

Did you vote for Bush, instead? Or just sit out the election.

Finally, you've found a cause again.

[twiterpatted]

40. I think you know exactly how long the board has been around.

[RagingInMiami]

57. So let me guess

It was the immigration issue that compelled you to finally register and start posting.

P.S. picking on the new guy for being the new guy is cheap.

No, because the new guy is already bitching about people having an opinion other than himself.

P.S.S I am a long time lurker, since before Bush.

There was no DU before Bush.

P.S.S.S. Why so quick to play the "you can find a new board card"?

If I walk into your neighborhood bar for the first time, talk to a few people and then announce that "I've had enough of the Texan accents in this bar", would you buy me a beer and ask me to sit down or would you tell me to find another bar?

[EFerrari]

63. I think living in Miami has made you too nice.

:)

[RagingInMiami]

65. No, living in Miami has turned me into a defender of immigrants

[EFerrari]

66. Well, hail fellow well met. n/t

[RebelOne]

136. No way, I lived in Miami most of my life

and it turned me into a total bitch. I am now a much nicer person living in North Georgia.

[twiterpatted]

72. Are you sure you want a piece of me?

I made that ContraBass Black dude cry.

[twiterpatted]

74. Whats your point,

"It was the immigration issue that compelled you to finally register and start posting"

What are you saying. Come out and make your point. Don't be coy. What are you alluding to with that crack, what do you really want to say and are afraid to say.

[RagingInMiami]

95. Do I have to spell it out for you?

I've been making my points in every one of my posts to you. If you can't keep up with the discussion, then go back to being a lurker.

[twiterpatted]

115. Clearly you don't have the guts to spell it out or you would have

already!. Again, this was your crack,

"It was the immigration issue that compelled you to finally register and start posting".

I know what your accusing me of, I just want to see if you have the guts to say it. You failed.

I gave you a chance to spell it out and you blinked.
I can take insults, ridicule and hatefulness. What I cannot stand is cowardice and slimy posts.

What you offer is anything but discussion.
You offer smarmy sarcasm and veiled insults.

You could just apologize and move on!

[RagingInMiami]

130. Is this a Texas thing or what?

The whole "you don't have the guts to say it," insinuating that I'm filled with "cowardice" because I don't give you an explicit explanation of a previous post.

What exactly am I afraid of? You're an anonymous voice on an Internet message board. For all I know, you could be a pimply teenager or a feeble senior citizen. For all I know, you could be one of those right-wing assholes who have already been banned several hundred times in the past under a different username.

It really doesn't matter, does it, because even if you do live in Texas and even if I do live in Miami, then what the hell is it that I am supposed to fear?

That's you're going to meet after school and beat me up?

And then you want me to apologize to you?

For what?

First you come across as this swaggering stranger ready to take on anyone who dares challenge you, then you become this ultrasensitive underdog claiming to have been bullied for being a newbie.

I think I will just move on. Without the apology.

[twiterpatted]

137. Can we call a truce and be friends now.

By the way... I am, in fact, a pimply faced senior citizen with a right wing for an asshole.


Peace!

I forgot what we were even arguing over, A.D.D. and all that.

[RagingInMiami]

142. Truce

:toast:

[Minnesota Libra]

10. Sorry but I think Lou Dobbs is right on with the illegal alien issue......

....he tells it like it is. You are right that Bush is a friend of any one but Lou Dobbs doesn't agree with neocons or liberals on illegal aliens, so he must be doing something right.

Oh, and before anyone jumps my case again about race notice I am not making a distinction as to which border we should focus on (BOTH BORDERS) and also notice I do not mention color or race. I'm against illegal aliens no matter who or what color or what race they are.

[fasttense]

12. Lou Dobbs does not support brush

He is one of the few news commentators who has not backed down under neocon pressure to report what this administration wants him to report.

He is not a racists and he supports immigration. He, like Cesar Chavez, knows that an endless supply of meek, fearful, workers will only lead to more exploitation of those workers. By throwing out the racist card you have embraced brush's ploy. You have bought into his mentality that anyone who wants to control illegal immigration is a racists. It has nothing to do with the color of their skin. It has to do with economic exploitation of a powerless group of people.

Brush's base, the haves and have mores, are making billions off of exploiting illegals. Illegals are virtual slaves who work in dangerous and exploitive conditions so a billionaire can give more money to the republicans.

Illegals need to save their own country. They should take all this passion and direct it to changing the country that they love. Mexicans citizens in the US shouldn't give up on changing Mexico.

[Jensen]

15. Lou Dobbs is a American who is concerned about the welfare of

Americans!!! Lou Dobbs reports of the exploitation of immigrants and what is happening to the American workers with our jobs exported to other countries, the lowering of "our wages", trying to wipe out the middle class in this country, so we can become like every other country "THE RICH and THE POOR!!!!!

What these CEO's and politicians do not understand is that America is used to a higher stander of living and we will NEVER settle for a third world order, all their security cameras, motes and fences will NOT stop us from running them over. America will fight to the death and destroy them!

George is NO KING!

[ThomasNewton]

16. I don't think it's Lou with the problem

I think it's you.

I like Lou and agree with him on illegal immigration. I also agree with Edward Abbey who said the best thing we could do for the illegals is meet each one at the border, give them a rifle and a case of ammunition and send them back home. The Mexicans need to fix whatever is wrong with their country not abandon it.

If they want to come here there's a legal way to do it, period. The law should apply equally to all regardless of skin color. If you don't believe that then you're the racist not the people advocating controlling our borders.

Last night on the UPN Channel 30 news here in Memphis there was a story about an illegal that'd been arrested for DUI. When he was stopped by police he gave them a fake international driver's license he'd bought. Is the media upset because this guy has fostered crime by purchasing a fake ID? No. Are they upset because this guy was in possession of a fake ID? No. Are they upset because when a police officer ask this guy who he was he gave the cop a fake ID? No. Are they upset because this guy was driving drunk and could have killed somebody? No. The reporter was upset because not the illegal is out $120, the amount he claims he paid for the fake ID.

Now honestly, do you think if this guy had been black or white this story would have made the news?
No way.

In my opinion this guy belongs in jail and when he gets out he should be shipped back to Mexico since he has no respect for our laws.

[EFerrari]

19. By the same logic, your forebearers should have been turned away. n/t

[QC]

85. His ancestors were drunk drivers?

How do you know that?

[EFerrari]

96. Lol! Point taken. n/t

[oasis]

24. Lou has resorted to playing the "Mexicans are infecting us with tb" card.

He had a special report on his show today. I'm losing my long held respect for the man's integrity.:-(

[EFerrari]

27. The only thing that worries me more than the rampant

election fraud in this country is the fanning of racism.

:(

[oasis]

30. Tweety did his part today in fanning the flames of racism. Tweets voiced

a deep concern for people who would be upset if the towns and cities they grew up in became culturally changed (Mexicanized).

You're right, it's getting scary.

[EFerrari]

33. Yep. I seem to remember that The Magistrate ran this down

in GD Politics for us. Racism is at the heart of the Thug base. And since they are in control now, we are all being exposed to it, it is airborn.

We can do better than this.

[Marie26]

37. And it's not even Bush, it's us.

The weird part is, Bush isn't even the one behind it. His "guest worker program" is very flawed, but at least he isn't treating immigrants like an enemy, the way many Republicans are. He's made attempts to pander to Hispanics (which is better than demonizing them). I'm closer to Bush's stance on this issue than that of many DUers. How weird is that?

[EFerrari]

41. I think DU has many guests right now.

And I think there is, in general, a LOT of disinformation floating around. Like, undocumented workers use more social services, don't pay taxes -- that kind of cR@p that is untrue.

We have to be DU, and not let ourselves get our chain yanked. Ask for facts and sources. Look at the big picture with our values in mind.

Not easy to do in a tidal wave of disinfo.

We can do it. :hi:

[oasis]

47. Many DUers respect and admire Amy Goodman. I hope they caught her take

of the immigration issue on "Hardball". I feel it was reasoned, fair and with sympathy for the plight of people trying to make a better life for themselves.

Too bad Tweety kept interupting her.:-(

[EFerrari]

51. I'll have to catch that later but have heard she did, as usual,

a wonderful job in laying out the facts.

[Marie26]

31. OMG!! Mexicans are infecting us with TB???

This combines my fear of foreigners & my fear of epidemics in a way I just can't handle! I bet they're behind this "global warming" problem too!

[EFerrari]

34. We are hot, come to think of it.

:rofl:

[Marie26]

42. And which country is even hotter?

That's right. I've done an exhaustive study that proves that as the number of Mexican immigrants has gone up, the US temperature has gone up as well. Coincidence? I think not. Where are the Mexicans? The Southwest. Where are the droughts? The Southwest. This PROVES that the Mexicans are responsible for droughts & global warming! I won't hear any counter-arguments!

[EFerrari]

43. ouch.

:rofl:

[Bridget Burke]

122. Don't forget those jalapenos....

And serranos, which are even hotter!

Many non-Mexicans in the Southwest have been sucked into the nefarious plot--we've been eating Mexican-influenced food for a long time. Why don't we go back to our ancestral baloney & white bread?

[EFerrari]

126. Salsa is a threat to democracy.

:rofl:

[Bridget Burke]

129. Salsa is now more popular than ketchup....

(Not to mention those margaritaas that cloud our minds.)

It's all a plot!

[oasis]

36. Someone better tell Bush to wear gloves when he shakes hands down there.

Lou has jumped the shark by bringing this up in such a sensitive climate.

[Elwood P Dowd]

92. You might want to stop laughing

A note from a friend who's father is a retired MD...


Once thought to be nearly eradicated in this country, TB is now making a strong comeback. In a recent interview with Mother Jones Magazine, Dr. Reichman of The New Jersey TB Clinic recently said: In the 1990's, cases among foreign born Americans rose from 29 percent to 41.6 percent. Antibiotic resistant strains from Mexico have migrated to Texas. Since three years ago, 16,000 new cases of TB were discovered in the United States. Half were foreign born. Strains of TB once only found in Mexico have migrated to the border states of Texas, Arizona, New Mexico, and California. It will move north as illegal aliens work in restaurants as cooks, dishwashers, and food handlers. We sit on the edge of a potential catastrophe."

In 2001, New York's Tuberculosis Control Program discovered that 81 percent of that city's new cases of TB were attributed to immigrants

Cases of TB are now being found in many areas of the country, where there are high concentrations of illegal immigrants. In March of 2002, The Washington Post reported that Virginia's Prince William County experienced a 188 percent increase of TB infections over the previous year. Yes, the streets of Prince William County are over-run with illegal aliens seeking day-laborer jobs.

Last year, the rate of TB in the northern part of Virginia rose 17 percent. The Va. Department of Health blamed the rise on that region's recent flood of illegal immigrants. Many strains of TB are being found in certain neighborhoods, which are dominated by illegal Latin American immigrants.

[Marie26]

94. No link? It's OK, I found it.

Oh, allow me! Does your "friend" also write for the "American Daily", a right-wing website for "we, the real people"? Because, oddly enough, you have quoted one of their articles verbatim! The article, titled "Immigrants are spreading dangerous diseases across the nation!," rants about all the diseases immigrants can carry, using incredibly racist & fear-mongering terms. And the writer would be in a position to know about this, because he lives in Norfolk, Va. & is a freelance writer for a hate site. If that doesn't qualify someone to speak about the danger of epidemics, I don't know what does.

"American Daily" also has some interesting articles like "You May Be A Liberal If..." & "Liberal Democrat's Satanic Overlord." I love how you tried to disguise your "source" by acting like you heard this first-hand. Now I'm really laughing! If you have to use right-wing racist loon sites to support your position, maybe you should re-think your position.

Link:

http://www.americandaily.com/article/7751 - "Illegal Immigrants" story

http://americandaily.com/article/12734 - "Liberal Democrat's Satanic Overlord" story :evilgrin:

[Elwood P Dowd]

101. So quotes from Mother Jones and the Washington Post

are right wing? I don't have a link from that email, but I'm going to get in thouch with that guy tomorrow and get some more info. I don't think you will like it.

Here is something from Texas. I can't believe you don't understand the problem with TB and other diseases coming in with immigrants. These people are not screened or tested. We have no idea what we're dealing with. Why don't you try to move to another country without any documentation or health screening. It's impossible.

"A burgeoning population caused by immigration from Latin America and Mexico, which have more cases of TB infection, as well as growing numbers of intravenous drug users and homeless people, has edged numbers upward. Drug resistance in these populations is compounded by health problems common in the area: diabetes and high blood pressure."

http://www.themonitor.com/SiteProcessor.cfm?Template=/GlobalTemplates/Details.cfm&StoryID=6306&Section=Local

[Marie26]

105. Why did you lie?

Come on, you can admit you lifted that directly from their article. Why did you try to pretend you saw it in a "note from a friend"? That's just lame. You did that because you knew the site had no creditability & people wouldn't believe a story from that website (rightfully). So you lied about where you read it, in order to trick people into believing it. That's deceptive & underhanded. And it makes me question your creditability on this issue, & you're willingness to use unethical means to make your points. I don't think I like the places you've been visiting & I don't like the ideas you've been getting there. And I really, really, don't like it when people try to use propaganda on an emotional issue like this.

[Elwood P Dowd]

106. I had a long email, and I pulled that part off

Simple as that. This guy lives in East Texas, so he knows more about the problem than I know. That was a bad site as it turns out.

[Bridget Burke]

124. People come here from all over the world.

Some fly in & some swim across. ANY of them might bring disease.

About the "growing numbers of intravenous drug users & homeless people"? That's certainly NOT limited to certain ethnic groups. We've got quite a few "homeless" begging on the streets of Houston. NONE of them came here from the South.

[Gormy Cuss]

133. The Mother Jones article

Here ya go, Elwood. The article is from 2003.
Reichman is interviewed and is the core actor but the statistics attributed to him in the email you posted are not attributed to him in the article although they are stated by the author.
http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2003/03/ma_311_01.html

[Elwood P Dowd]

104. Now you have me on Google searching around & look what I found

research, however, suggests that RIF/PZA would be more effective and less costly for tuberculosis prevention in immigrants from countries with high rates of isoniazid resistance. This article examines the use of RIF/PZA for treatment of a tuberculosis outbreak among Mexican immigrants in 2001 (n=34).

http://www.rwjf.org/research/researchdetail.jsp?id=1313&ia=141

That's just the beginning. There are tons of articles on this. Yes, I even found the fruitloop site you mentioned.

[Marie26]

107. I'm editing this

based on your post above, where you admit it was a bad site. No hard feelings, but sometimes it's good to check out emails you get. There's a lot of misinformation floating around out there.

[Elwood P Dowd]

108. Free Republic? Are you kidding me?

You're paranoid.

The email was a list of reasons why something needs to be done about illegal immigration. There were parts of several articles. There wasn't a link anywhere. I've posted plenty of links on this board. The references to Mothers Jones, a magazine to which I subscribe, and the Washington Post seemed okay to me. BTW, did you read the Mother Jones article about Chavez Ravine?

[Marie26]

109. See my post above.

I'd edited it before you posted.

[Elwood P Dowd]

111. Yes, I starting to run on empty

Now I'm into it with someone who loves NAFTA on here and someone who wants to nuke the Middle East on another. This country is so fucked up, I might just need to stay off these "internets" a few days.

[Marie26]

112. Sometimes it's good to take a break. nt

[NiteOwll]

90. I can't agree with you more.

That's exactly the route they're going to go. If ya can't beat 'em, then scare them into doing what you want. Get the white folks afraid of the disease-ridden Mexicans, and surely they'll quickly put a stop to immigration from poor, non-white countries. I had a lot more respect for Lou Dobbs before this.

[Minnesota Libra]

39. Lou Dobbs is the only one with a truly workable immigration policy........

.....someone should stat listening to the man and then kick him out to come back and implement his program.

[boot@9]

80. Lou has some valid arguements but

he will not answer the question about what do we do with the 11 million plus undocumented immigrants already in the US. Surely no one can seriously suggest we round them up and send them back to where they came from or charge them with felonies and put them in jail. The long term solution in my opinion is to fine the hell out of those who employ illegals and stop providing cheap labor for the corporations who undermine decent wages all for the sake of profits at any cost.

[Minnesota Libra]

89. Oh but not just fine the hell out of the employers but ..........

....start those fines at 1 month worth of "GROSS INCOME" for each illegal alien and double that every day. So if a corporation or mom-and-pop makes $1 million a day (gross income) and has five illegal alien employees then the first day's fine would be $5 million a day, the second day would be $10 million and so on. Soon they would be into the billions a day but I don't think it would take that long to teach them a lesson.

Then take that one step further and fine the crap out of people/companies who rent/sell apartments/houses to illegal aliens. The same "gross income" doubled each day per illegal alien - not just per illegal alien family should apply. Let's say an apartment building brings in $50,000 a day and has 3 families of five people each of illegal aliens living there. The first day's fine would be $750,000 and the second day would be $1,500,000 and so on.

Talk about ending the illegal alien problem overnight, that would do it.

[EFerrari]

98. Again, I'm sure you have defined the progressive position. n/t

[Minnesota Libra]

113. I'd like to see the official progressive stance on illegal aliens because

.....I thought progressives wanted to blame everything on corporations but not go after the mom-and-pop operations that also hire illegal aliens. I don't care if someone wants their lawn mowed or work done for a multi-million dollar a year corporation. If they hire an illegal alien they should pay a price that will forever remind them of their misdeeds. As I said in my other email, the same should go for those giving shelter to illegal aliens.

Notice I don't make a distinction as to which border the illegal aliens come over or what race or color they are either. I'm equally against all illegal aliens.

So if progressives agree with this stance then please by all means show me something in writing because all this time I may have been under the wrong impression. I've been accused of being a racist, unfair (because I think of Americans FIRST), and any number of other flames.

Anyway, Thank you for your time on this.

[EFerrari]

116. Progressives would value human rights and quality of life

over the kind of nationalism that you espouse when you say "Americans First". That is a core value. That is exactly what puts us at odds with corporations because they value capital over life, not simply because they are corporations.

It might not be a bad idea to go to a site like Wiki and figure out where you are on the political continuum.

[mondo joe]

125. Your opinion. I don't think there's anything about being progressive that

needs to be contrary to rationality and a belief in rule of law.

[EFerrari]

127. Here we go. Tell you what, you can keep "law and order"

and I'll keep my respect for human life.

[mondo joe]

128. That's fine with me.

[SammyWinstonJack]

73. Did you honestly expect an honest discourse on this subject here?

:rofl:

[countryjake]

110. When Lou brags about being "a conservative's conservative"

he reminds me of how all those obnoxious Young Republicans used to blather on, back in the day.

As I've said before, I hope he finds a dysentery bug down there, with his name on it.

[Deja Q]

119. You mean, Dobbs and Bush are illegally emigrating to Mexico?!

That's big news to me...

BTW: Don't make it racist with this "brown skinned" nonsense. I've no qualms about immigration. My issues stem when they become immigrants and pledge loyalty to America yet go around waving the flags of countries they chose to leave. Where is their allegiance, particularly when leaving their country for another shows they don't give a shit what happens TO their home country. :think:

[Deja Q]

121. I pose to you a counter-claim:

Your posts suggsts I am a racist just because I disagree with this loosening of laws, what with "brown-skinned" and all. :eyes:

Therefore, you must be in utter support of slavery and exploitation by allowing these new lax standards.

Do you support exploitation and slavery?

[VirtualChicano]

132. LoL

guess who lou dobbs panders to

[Greyhound]

135. What Mexicans ought to do

is take control of their own damn country. Reject the PRI as the puppets of the ruling class that they are. Nationalize their infrastructure and seize the assets of the ruling families and kick their asses out of the country (I'm sure shrubCo will be happy to give them asylum as they've done for so many RW criminals) :grr:

[EFerrari]

138. Sounds pretty much like what we should do, too.

I keep trying to say, these people are our natural allies. And, don't get very far.

But, it's true.

[msgadget]

143. It's more important they vote Vincente Fox out of office and

push for the trade agreements to be rewritten so they don't have to come over here and demand work.