Man Charged With Sexual Assault Has Support Of Victim's Mother

[Heidi]

So, whatta ya'll think about this? I'm still thinking through it.

Man Charged With Sexual Assault Has Support Of Victim's Mother
Woman Says Her Daughter Lies About Her Age
OMAHA, Neb. -- A 25-year-old man charged with first-degree sexual assault on a 14-year-old girl appeared in court Tuesday with an unexpected advocate: the alleged victim's mother.

Marvin Villareal waived his right to a preliminary hearing and was bound over to District Court. He faces a felony charge for having sex with the teenage girl, but the girl's mother said her daughter was in the wrong. She lied about her age, adding that she told Villareal she was 19. Her mother said it isn't the first time.

"I feel Marvin's in this situation because my daughter manipulated him. She lied to him about her age," said Estela Torres, the victim's mother. "In my heart I think if I wasn't here, I wouldn't be doing the right thing. I love her. She's my daughter. I stand behind her. But I also have to support this young man because what's happened to him is not fair."

Torres said her daughter looks mature for her age, wears makeup, fixes her hair and is well developed. The lie about her age isn't new, Torres said, and her daughter is just now learning there are consequences for that.

Link to full article and news video: http://www.ketv.com/news/8320000/detail.html?subid=22100461&qs=1;bp=t

[mcar]

1. If she said she was 19

and looks the part, how is the man supposed to know that she's a minor?

This sounds like a far different case than an adult preying on a child -- unless there is more to it than this, I don't think this man should be charged.

[Heidi]

2. Based on what the report says,

I tend to agree with you. I'll don my flame-retardant suit and pose the question: when do we as women become responsible for our sexual behavior? I know that my parents raised me to believe that while sex is healthy, it also could have grave repercussions not only for me, but for others. (I'd like to point out that this appears to be a case of consensual sex, but the penalty for statuatory rape in Nebraska is up to 50 years in prison.)

[Jacobin]

3. Check ID?

"HI, my name is Barney. You look hot, but uhm, can I check ur ID first?"

[MadHound]

6. Yeah, right.

How many times have you checked a date's ID? How many people do you think would actually do that?

[Jacobin]

15. It's called 'sarcasm'

Look it up

[MadHound]

17. Sorry, some sarcasm translate better on a chat board than others

That's why there is a :sarcasm: smiley. Didn't mean to jump on you unwarranted, it is just that I've heard this very suggestion made in all seriousness many times before.

Peace:hi:

[Jacobin]

27. No problem

I thought by putting the line in quotes that it would translate. Re-reading my post, I can see it wasn't clear

I have a feeling that checking IDs on a date is probably not a widespread practice and won't ever be one.

:hi:

[BoneDaddy]

35. Absolutely

Be careful the really radical gender police will now require that of men before they get involved.

[sandnsea]

88. Hey, let me tell you a story

When my son would have R&R working wildfires, the older crew chiefs on his crew absolutely checked ID. Nobody under 18 got into a hotel room and nobody under 21 got a drink. I was really surprised when he told me that because I had made the comment as a joke. But some guys have decided that's the only way to go.

[MadHound]

4. I'm with you on this

I've known a few girls in my life who blossomed early, and by the time they were twelve, thirteen, and fourteen, they could pass for eighteen and older. I think that it is quite telling that the victim's mother is coming out with this support for the guy, good for her.

If this is indeed how things went down, I wouldn't be suprised, and I think that the guy should be found not-guilty.

[Heidi]

78. Too,

there's a cultural diffrerence to reckon with. Nebraskans ratified laws which virtually invited illegal immigrants, by giving carte blanche to big companies which notoriously rely on illegal labor, but took no notice of the cultural dissonance that would result. And I'll bet _none_ of DU's anti-immigration contingent is even perusing this thread. :eyes:

[pitohui]

83. unfortunately it don't matter what she said

in mississippi when they changed the law to make it illegal to sleep w. 15 yr olds they posted huge signs warning you that it doesn't matter if she says she's older

i guess you're supposed to check ID but of course teens that age have fake ID

:shrug:

i bet it's the same in other states

[Ufomammut]

5. I'd venture a guess on this one...

Most - okay, perhaps not all - but most men, even on a visceral level, would know the girl was a minor, regardless of make up. Determining whether she's 16, 17, 18 or 19 may be difficult ...but 14? Come on, he knew she had to be fairly young.

[Richard Steele]

11. Yeah, because all men have that eerie psychic power, right?

:eyes:

[Ufomammut]

21. Nothing remotely "eerie" or "psychic" about...

A twenty-five yr old man realizing that he's messing with someone considerably younger than himself.

[Poll_Blind]

12. See my reply #8.

Maybe that will clarify how it might have happened?

PB

[MadHound]

14. You would be suprised

I owned an acarde for a few years in the early eighties. Had a young woman who was a regular customer. Good looking, well developed chest, wore make-up on occaission, came across as somebody who was older than eighteen.

Got to know her, asked her age, found out that she was twelve.

This can and does happen. The biological onset of puberty has been occurring earlier and earlier these days. And kids are becoming much more sophisticated these days, at least sophisticated enough to pull off the facade of being an adult. Sure, most of the time one can tell, but there are those individuals out there that when you find out they're still kids, you're just floored.

[0007]

118. I've seen it many times. And some are really good actresses.

[mcar]

16. How would he know?

The article doesn't indicate if this was a one-night or longer-term deal. You don't even know if they spoke to each other much.

I don't think there are many young men who would know anything of the sort on a visceral level.

[NashVegas]

85. The Article Calls It a "Relationship"

That police only found out during an immigration sweep. Sounds like they were a couple.

[TalkingDog]

20. My sister popped out of her top at 12. She was a D cup.

Trust me, if guys can't find the OJ on the front of the top shelf in the fridge, then they aren't really that observant. (sorry guys, it's a scientifically proven fact that your pattern recognition and social intelligence lags far behind women)

Me on the other hand, a modest B cup and when I went to college, people kept asking me where my older/brother sister was. I was 20 and people thought I was 12.....Hmmm...maybe that's why I never got a lot of dates as a teen.

Anyway. My eventual point is: Guys aren't that good at figuring age.

Want to see a deer in the headlights classic? If you are a woman, casually ask a guy how old he thinks you are. Worth a chuckle every time.

[pitohui]

84. when i was 14 no you couldn't tell

at 14 i was the same size i am now in my late forties and most of it's in my chest, hell, i still have a pair of jeans from when i was a teen and i can still wear them

no one knew that i was a minor

no one

not every 14 yr old is a flat-chested little chippie, i was an adult woman, fully developed physically

it ain't all that rare

[Brazenly Liberal]

7. Not enough info there

I can't tell from this article what, if anything, the mother is doing to address her family's problem. If what she says is true - that the 14 year old daughter habitually goes on the prowl - this girl is a mess and didn't get that way by herself. Something is very wrong in that family and it's not going to be fixed by teaching the daughter there are "consequences for that."

[mcar]

13. My thoughts too

This child obviously has some serious issues.

[Poll_Blind]

18. I agree. Serious issues that have long-lasting consequences. n/t

PB

[pitohui]

86. 14 year old girls have hormones

i was completely developed sexually and i had the physical needs of a woman because i was a woman

my choice to go on the prowl, as they so nicely call it, was a rational and wise decision

i did not want a relationship at that age, didn't want a boyfriend or a husband to cater to

i wanted to enjoy myself and then put my attentions back to my studies and trying to get ahead in school

unless you assume that sex is automatically bad, i don't see why no-strings-attached sex is a bad choice for a girl that young as long as she uses precautions and has access to all necessary medical care

[Kailassa]

91. Exactly, different people mature at different rates.

If a girl has matured early and has a healthy libido , and the guy has no way to know how young she was, then he shouldn't be punished for having consentual sex with her.

To many people want to deny individual differences and label every guy in that situation as a molester or rapist.

[Brazenly Liberal]

93. I don't know what to say to that

I find virtually every word in that post to be completely disconnected from the reality of a 14 year old's ability - or, more accurately, inability - to make "rational and wise" decisions about sex.

I'm not going to argue with you, though. We really don't have enough common ground for that to be fruitful.

[TalkingDog]

96. I don't know that many 30 year olds who fit that criterion either.

"Rational and wise decisions about sex"

Hormones and less than perfect life experiences make for bad decisions at any age.

I've known teens who are very mature about their sexuality and teens who don't seem to be able to cope. The same thing goes for people in their 20's 30's and 40's and so on.

Should we punish the people who get involved with dysfunctional people, even though they didn't know any better?

Experience is what grown ups call their mistakes. 14 year olds have to just live with calling them mistakes...and if that affects anybody else...too bad . (?)

[Brazenly Liberal]

97. You're making an unwarranted assumption

I only commented on the girl's situation. I neither said nor implied that the young man involved should be punished. I don't feel I know enough about the situation to have an opinion on that. I haven't seen her or seen the way she acts - which is as it should be - and have no idea how mature she might actually seem to him. If a reasonable person would have thought she was 18, it would be unreasonable to punish him for thinking so. If she's obviously a good deal younger than that, it's a different story.

Wisdom and rationality exist on a continuum. I really don't see the point in arguing around the edges, bringing in people who are unusually mature or immature for their age. While you're right that there are foolish 30 year olds, yes, in fact, I would expect in general that a 30 year old would make wiser and more rational choices than a 14 year old would. And - again, in general - that a 50 year old would make wiser choices than a 30 year old.

This only makes sense when you think about it. At what point do you plan to stop learning? It's a sad case when someone just stops and gets fixed in cement at one point. (I'm not talking about you, personally, here.)

[Matariki]

105. i was like that too ;-)

and i have no regrets!

[Poll_Blind]

8. My latina girlfriend could have easily passed for 19 at the age of 13.

She's much taller than your average latina as well and had something like C-cup breasts at that age. I'm not defending the guy if, indeed, there is anything to defend against, just putting my 2 cents in. It appears that he had been deceived. Unless there is some sort of deception on the mother's part, you can generally trust a mother's word about their child.

I read the article and watched the video just to make sure I didn't miss anything.

PB

[Brazenly Liberal]

61. Well..........

"Unless there is some sort of deception on the mother's part, you can generally trust a mother's word about their child."

I wish that was true. Unfortunately, some women work out their own fears/neuroses/hangups on their daughters. I worked with troubled families at one time and you'd be appalled at what goes on. Little girls who are called "whores" and worse because they're developing - as if that was something evil and as if it was under their control to begin with. In any difficulty, these mothers assume first and foremost it was the child who was to blame. (That's not to say I think it's what happened here. I don't know what happened here except to be relatively certain there is more going on in that family than is presented in the article.)

[BoneDaddy]

9. I agree

How can you hold someone accountable for when he was acting under the illusion the minor was a legal adult? I don't think it is bizarre or weird for the mother of the girl to testify on behalf of the man, especially if the daughter has a history of misrepresenting herself this way. IN fact I think the mother has a moral and ethical imperative to do just that if her child is engaging in such potentially destructive behavior.

After working in a middle school and high school for almost twenty years I can tell you how difficult it is to guess age. I have thought on numerous occasions that some of the students I have seen could easily pass for teachers and vice versa.

[Arkansas Granny]

33. It is really hard to judge the age of some girls. My granddaughter

could have passed for being 19 or 20 when she was just 14. She not only had the physical attributes of an older girl, she was very quiet, intelligent and could hold her own in a conversation. She was not what you would have considered the typical, giggly teen aged girl.

My daughter, on the other hand, could have passed as a junior high school student until she was nearly 30 and still gets carded at bars on a regular basis even though she is approaching 40.

I'm not trying to judge anyone in this story, just pointing out how hard it can be to judge someones age just on looks.

[Deep13]

10. An adult manipulated by a 14 year old?

Guilty.

:nopity:

[iamthebandfanman]

19. lol

while he never should have began talking to the girl

i dun see why its so hard to think she manipulated him?


i know when i was 14-15 I was always flirting with older guys(19-20).
lets not just say shes innocent because of her age, she knew what she was doing.
at 14 you know better. sorry.

[Deep13]

23. I guess at 25 one is expected to be ...

...as stupid as a bag of hammers. Oh, no help! I am at the mercy of my hormones!

[iamthebandfanman]

26. thats why i said

that he should have known better too and never have started be-friending her.

i was just saying its not outrageous to say he was manipulated by her.
its not always the guy with bad intentions after all.

[seabeyond]

22. f*in adults are manipulated by 2 yr olds, what are you talking about

i have watched it in play when my niece, starting at 12 started using her sexuality. now at almost 18 i have talked to her about her past behavior and the repercussions. i didn't like it then, and challenged her often, as a female setting example. she made sure she stayed far away form me.

i have another niece at 11 looked to be 16, 17, 18. now at 13 wow, totally adult looking. but then she is much more 13 mentality and not wanting to play the sexual game, yet i watch males, old and young put her in that role. she hates it. and THAT pisses me off.

so good for this mom recognizing it with her daughter. standing up for the male. and teaching her daughter, repercussions. couldn't come too soon. that child still has a long way to go to maturity.

[Deep13]

25. "that child still has a long way to go to maturity"

Precisely. The operative word being "child."

[John Q. Citizen]

31. Some adults are manipulated by the family dog, believe it.

Depends on the adult.

[NashVegas]

87. By Any Chance

Was your niece a victim of sexual abuse? Have you asked her that?

Most early teenaged girls will "test their wiles," to some extent, with their male relatives (safe atmosphere). When the play goes out of bounds, it's a fair guess they got an early lesson or two that they shouldn't have had.

[seabeyond]

92. she wasnt sexually abused. she certainly "tested" her wiles

so much so, my hubby and my father were concerned with her being in our homes.

she did not have a good upbringing, and not all bad either. her parents are alcoholics, self absorbed, victims, not good examples. they love their kids. they also spoiled the kids in material things, not what kids need to build character. just sooo much. my niece learned at a young age to use sexuality with the males to get what she wanted. that is what she used. they also have a lot of extended family, that love them and are good examples for them. so it is not all bad.

i know that girls that are victims of sexual abuse can behave this way. but.... sometimes, it is just a girl that has learned to get what she wants.

[NashVegas]

98. But Did Anyone Ask Her?

Just sayin' ... from both personal experience and observation.

[seabeyond]

99. asked, talked about, and all kinds of other things. yes

i have talked ot her about sexual abuse. i have talked to her about rape. i have talked about the way she dresses. i have talked about her attitude and behavior. i am not afraid to talk about anything. i am very open. we are an open family in each others business. we are well connected with one another

and no..... her behavior is not from sexual abuse

my problem with this insistance, is we women really want the woman to always be the victim, never be the one at fault, we look for a way to excuse our young girls behaviors, and i think it is terribly irresponsible and doing harm to both our girls and boys. sometimes, ... with our media, our making girls sexual beings at 10, not cnnected as parents... i think we are doing harm and not setting sucha good example for our young females.

[NashVegas]

119. I Agree With You

is we women really want the woman to always be the victim

This is so true. And then we show her our disapproval and, sometimes, scorn when she takes her sexuality into her own hands. Not helpful. A teen won't necessarily hear any difference between "this is inappropriate for your age" and "this is inappropriate."

[BoneDaddy]

36. You obviously don't know alot of 14 year olds.

Manipulation is a tool that people use to survive, get what they want and exercise power. If you don't think that 14 year olds and much younger may I add, have that ability, then you are severely out of touch with the current reality.

[Deep13]

48. Well, I used to be one.

:freak:

[BoneDaddy]

53. And your experience was that you were

most likely a helluva more naive that the general group of 14 year olds. You would be surprised at what some kids are capable of.

[Deep13]

57. And you know that how?

[BoneDaddy]

66. by your original response

If you were more saavy or sophisticated as 14 year old, you would know and realize that part of being that age is you learn how to manipulate and is some, often common cases, manipulate very well.

[Deep13]

70. Perhaps you are just easily manipulated.

[Kailassa]

55. If your info is correct, you were never a 14 y o girl,

and it's 14 y o girls we are talking about.

They are very different to 14 y o boys.

[Deep13]

56. I discovered that back then.

So a double standard based on gender is appropriate.

[Kailassa]

64. Do you enjoy making nonsense accusations?

Only an idiot would believe there was no difference between a 14 y o girl and a 14 y o boy.

Acknowledging difference is not the difference does not equal having a double standard.

[Deep13]

69. It has been suggested that if the genders were reversed...

...there would be no case. While I do not concede the point, your observation seems to support the use of a double standard. If 14 year old girls are as manipulative and deceptive as you suggest, the law needs to be strict in preventing adults from taking advantage of that.

[salin]

24. One item leaves me wondering...

says the relationship was learned in an immigration enforcement sweep. Not sure how B) the immigration sweep, is related to A) the sexual assault charges.

Odd, that.

From what I have read, there is really no way the man could have known - especially if it is true that she has tried to play an "adult" (as in of age) in teh past, and thus probably gotten a little better at it. Can he be culpable?

Wonder why, if Mom knew of her daughters forays... what was she doing to try to prevent her daughter from getting in this kind of situation - or worse?

[Poll_Blind]

29. Some thoughts on just that point...

I could be wrong but I figured they might have broken up by now and that the girl had hard feelings twoard him, implicating him in the crime during some aspect of the sweep. They could have been going around, like gringos, asking all the Latinos if they knew of any illegal immigrants. This wouldn't typically get you responses from Latinos, unless someone has a grudge against someone else, etc.

I don't think he can be culpable- especially when if he claims he was deceived and her mother backs it up.

I think the mom is probably trying to do whatever she can to reign in her daughter's inappropriate and dangerous behavior. However, she, like many parents, may be forced to work during the day to support her family. Especially if she is a single mother, as so many women are.

If her daughter has an off day from school and the mother does not have someone who can help watch her child's behavior while she is away, she may be at the mercy of a child sneaking out to do whatever they think they can get away with while the cat's away, in a manner of speaking. No parent can control or monitor the behavior of their child 100% of the time, espeically at that age and older.

Just some thoughts- there's alot about the case we still don't know. But the above seem like reasonable conjectures.

PB

[BR_Parkway]

28. Call the girl to the stand, let the jury decide if they would have been

fooled about her age or even if they would have questioned it. If she honestly looks that age, then perhaps they vote not guilty.

Seems like if they can prosecute you for the "intent to have sex with a minor" type crimes that they do when actual sleazeballs do prey on kids they stalk in places like myspace.com - where the intent to commit the crime is the factor, not the actual carrying through with it - then the "intent" of the guy thinking he was with someone of legal age should be a legitimate defense.

On the other hand, if she looks like a tarted up 14yo - throw his ass in jail.

[Poll_Blind]

30. While this seems like a "common-sense" approach, I'm not sure...

...it's very fair. Anyone under 20 is likely going to look very young to these jurors who, reasonably, will at least be half in their 30's plus. Besides, and I didn't want to go into this but it's a fair point: there are many things and situations that can make a person seem older. The girl could have been smoking with a full-arm tattoo, two things you're not going to see on your average 14 year old but still possible. Also, if she does not look mature without makeup, her use of it could have made her convincly look 2-4+ years older.

Oh, and let's not forget the man. She decieved him but, I'm afraid I'm being crude here, when Chris Rock was talking about Bill Clinton he made some joke about "Now a man can be faithful to his wife but, come on, what man's going to give up a piece of tail that HOPS into his lap?" In other words, we're talking about a horny young man here. I can see if the girl looks older and she claims to be older, he's not going to be overly inquisitive about anything that might get in the way of him having sexual intercourse with her.

PB

[BR_Parkway]

34. That sounds almost sexist - men just can't/won't control their sexual

urges - but no comment on the young lady in question not controlling hers or that she might be willing to deceive in the name of that sexual conquest (Of course I'll love you tomorrow)? Truthfully, she may have been seeking attention more than a sexual coupling (not that the same doesn't happen to folks in their 40's)

My statement is much more simple - if the guy had no reason to know she was underage (not a family friend or something) and if she convinced enough of the members of the jury that she was much older, then I have no problem with this guy not doing 50 years in jail/branded a sex offender for life. If she doesn't appear that way - lock him up.

I think we get way too caught up in ages (which shift according to society) of the people involved. My Grandmother was 14 when my uncle was born - that was the norm for the time/culture as close as 2 generations ago. That said, I did not want my daughter to be sexually active at that same age (not sure how to define that double standard since I still don't want her to be active in her mid-20's)

[BoneDaddy]

38. Give me a break

And that doesn't seem sexist?

[Kailassa]

39. Read the meaning.

Parkway was saying that the assumption that
"men just can't/won't control their sexual urges"
is sexist, if I understand the post correctly.

[BoneDaddy]

44. Perhaps I was a little gunshy

misread that. Just tired of the Men are evil meme that seems to run through a good number of our posters.

[BR_Parkway]

46. Actually I was sticking up for the guy here.

[BoneDaddy]

49. Thanks

Very bleary eyed and tired.

[Kailassa]

51. Yes, sexism in either direction stinks. But in this thread,

the person who is most harshly judgmental of the young man involved is a male.

Sometimes I wonder how many of the harsh posts on DU are from genuine liberals, and how many are from agitators who just want to stir up arguments.

[BoneDaddy]

68. agreed

well spoken. I see it among men as well. Typically self neutered new age guys.

[BR_Parkway]

45. Exactly what I was trying to say.

[lumberjack_jeff]

95. You're suggesting she'll costume the same way for the jury as for the guy?

[ContraBass Black]

108. Makeup, clothing, and a hairdo can turn around an appearance

Completely. It's not a reliable method.

[Bridget Burke]

32. Shall we just forget that "age of consent" business?

Some here have said the girl shouldn't have lied. Others are saying that anyone who "looks" older should be considered fair game.

Quite a few of the priests accused of molestation are NOT pedophiles. They had relationships with adolescents. And many of the relationships would have been considered consensual--except for the pesky age of consent concept. Is that why the parents thought a discreet word with the diocese would suffice, instead of going to the police? Of course, this guy looks as though he won't be a good source of cash, in case a civil suit is brought years from now.

[Kailassa]

43. What do you suggest young men should do, Bridget?

Should they ask for I.D.?
Should they always keep their pants zipped up?

This young man was not a priest. He was not a trusted authority figure with power over her. He was just a young adult who did something silly because he was mislead. Would you really want him sent to jail for 50 years for that? As a society we should certainly protect children from sexual predators or any coerced sex, but we also have to remember that a 14 year old girl who wants sex badly is likely to find a way to get it.

It's like the somnambulistic rape phenonemon. If someone is genuinely unaware of certain things, the law will generally take that into account.

[Bridget Burke]

54. I think 50 years is too much.

But I don't think all consent laws should be thrown out the window. Or just enforced in certain cases.

I seem to remember the phrase "jail bait." Has the concept been forgotten? Are all men just helpless slaves to their hormones?

[Kailassa]

58. There is a big difference between a girl intentionally misleading

a guy, and the guy being "just a helpless slave to his hormones."

People have sex, that much is inevitable. And it is also inevitable some will make a mistake in the process.

If I was the judge I'd give him 3 weekends of community service, and tell him to ask for IDs in future. ;-)

[Deep13]

60. "3 weekends of community service"

Not available for a major felony. The law exists to make people control the impulse to have sex with 14-year-olds. "Mistakes" are not harmless in this kind of situation. What if she gets a disease, gets pregnant or is emotionally damaged. This is child abuse plain and simple.

[High Plains]

82. The girl's mother doesn't seem to think so.

But what would she know?

[Deep13]

90. I don't know what she knows.

I know that everyone has parents and the fact that someone has reproduced doesn't mean anything.

Laws are for everyone, not just for victims with sympathetic parents. Part of the reason we have laws is to protect children whose parents won't. After all most child abusers abuse their own children.

[lastliberalintexas]

79. Except that a priest is in a different situation regardless of age

A priest/preacher/rabbi/whatever, doctor, lawyer, therapist or teacher is in a position of trust, guidance, counsel and often power over the individual with whom each may have a forbidden affair. I don't care if the parishoner is a 55 year old man, a priest is in such a position that a relationship between the 2 is wrong. And not because he is a priest or that it would be a homosexual relationship. If the 2 really want to try for a relationship, then the parishoner should be asked to seek counsel from another priest/transfer to another church instead of trying to continue in the dual roles involved.

A lawyer should never get involved with a client, nor a doctor with a patient, nor a teacher with a student, etc.- and not merely because of any "age of consent" issues. In fact, most of the organizations covering such professions even forbid such relationships in their respective Codes of Ethics.

[Bridget Burke]

81. Yes, professional ethics are important.

But we're talking about age of consent LAWS here. Should they only apply in some cases?

[lumberjack_jeff]

94. He broke the law. The real question is are the laws reasonable?

With the mitigating circumstances, I think he should get a $500 fine and consider himself lucky and wiser.

[Kailassa]

37. My daughter could pass for 20 at 12.

When we went anywhere together people would think we were sisters. No young man would have known any better if she'd chosen to fool him.

It is good to see that the mother here followed her conscience; it's all too instinctive to just feel angry when you find your young daughter is having sex, and want somebody to blame for it.

As for blaming her for her daughter's behaviour, blame is so much easier than understanding, and much better for the ego that simply admitting you don't know the facts.

If you are a single mother, working 2 jobs at once to pay the rent, and your child gets in with the wrong crowd, sometimes all you can do is drop the judgment so you can keep the lines of communication open, gently encourage the kid to do what is right, and be there for them when they need you.

I'm speaking from experience here. If you tell a teenager they have to behave in a certain way and they refuse, what do you do? One family I know nailed their daughter's window shut and belted her terribly if they found she'd "escaped" at night, but that didn't help either, not even with 2 parents and a stay-at-home mother to enforce the rules. I felt the "at least stay friends" approach had a much better outcome with my stubborn daughter than strict rules would have.

[AngryAmish]

52. All children lie

I was a "good" kid, lied to my folks and did lots of stupid and dangerous things behind their backs.

However, the affirmative defense of "I didn't know" is not available in most states for statutory rape.

[Deep13]

59. "...defense of 'I didn't know' is not available... "

That's because all children lie and it is up to adults to protect them from their actions before they are old enough to know better. If lying children are the norm, then adults ought to be on guard against that.

These laws exist to protect children from this kind of behavior.

[TimeChaser]

40. The danger here

is that if convicted, this guy would be branded a sex offender for the rest of his life. If what the mother is saying is true, is his life going to be ruined by a 14-year-old's lie?

[Deep13]

42. No, but it will be ruined by his criminal act. nt

[TimeChaser]

62. Yes, because

one's age is branded in bright neon numbers on one's forehead so he had to have known she was lying...

[Deep13]

74. As the adult in the situtation, he should have been careful.

Who has never heard the expression 15 will get you twenty?

[Heidi]

77. Yes.

Under Nebraska law, if convicted for a sex offense, he'll have to register as a sex offender for the _next 10 years_ after his parole.

[Deep13]

41. Just to be clear...

...we are blaming the moron child victim and not the moron adult perpetrator, right?

[Heidi]

63. What's the difference between "blame"

and "making responsible"? When does sexual responsibility start? Do you have an answer? I'm a 43-year-old American woman, and from the moment I became aware of my sexuality, my parents (both very strong liberals) were telling me, "Your sexuality is a gift. Don't make it a curse for yourself or anyone else.")

You raise an excellent point, though. When I was 14, I would _not_ have been a victim in a consensual sexual situation.

[Kailassa]

67. That's a beautiful way to put it.

I suspect that if more people really knew how to give and accept all the pleasure that can be had from sex and sensuality, most people would value the experience so much they would be more choosy about who they had sex with.

[Deep13]

72. Or they would get it from where ever it was available.

Either way, that has nothing to do with this case. This is not about sex being "bad". It is about adults who prey on children.

[Deep13]

71. "Do you have an answer?"

It is usually 16 or 18 depending on the criminal code of a particular state. If a 14 year old is sexually responsible, then a 25 year old certainly is.

[Beelzebud]

47. Reverse the sexes and they would drop charges...

Great double standard we have going.

[Deep13]

50. Don't be so sure.

[Heidi]

80. My husband, Call Me Wesley,

and I just had this discussion the other night, regarding the glaring double-standard. It seems that if you penetrate someone, you're sent away for next-to-forever, but if you're an adult who is _penetrated by_ a minor, (even if you're older and instigated the penetration), "Hey, no problem! Collect $200! Do not pass go! Don't forget your Get-out-of-jail-free-card and your bonus for licensing a made-for-TV movie!"

[Fleshdancer]

65. He's facing 50 years in prison?

50 years for statutory rape even though he was deceived when true cases of sexual assault get what, maybe 6 years? :wtf:

I hope the 14 yr old wears the makeup/clothing/hairstyle in court that she had when she met Marvin Villareal. Kudos to her mother for speaking up and hopefully sparing this man a hell he doesn't deserve.

[Deep13]

73. "...true cases of sexual assault get what, maybe 6 years..."

Rape by force in Ohio gets a mandatory life sentence.

[Heidi]

76. That's Nebraska law.

I lived there for 15 years and, while I loved many things about the state and the people, the statuatory rape penalty is _way_ off the scale. And the state has run into a shitload of trouble with the influx of Latino meatpacking workers since the economic development package (LB776€) was enacted about 15 years ago under former (Republican) Gov. Kay Orr. The state has presented a buffet of economic development incentives, virtually _inviting_ companies which exploit (often illegal) immigrants, but makes no allowance for their culture. My understanding is that, in Mexico it's perfectly legal for a 25-year-old man (or woman) to have sex with (or marry) a 14-year-old.

[WestSeattle2]

75. Had a friend in high school whose

younger sister was like that. She was only 13 but looked, and carried herself, like someone in their early 20's. She was always dating guys in their late teens and early 20's.

Like I said, it wasn't just her looks, it was the way she talked and acted. I've never seen a 13 year old like her.

I think it's great this girl's mother is in court standing up for the young man. After my experience, I can easily understand how this kind of thing can happen.

I mean it's really rare to find an early teenager who doesn't betray their real age through their speech, or actions, but it can happen. I've seen it myself!

[bleedingheart]

89. When I was 13, I looked like I was 21

and I was a lot older for my age in terms of responsibility...etc...however I didn't date anyone and my mother kept it that way until I turned 16...and then I didn't date because I was an uber geek.

However when I did go out with my mom...older men would hit on me constantly...once my mother just freaked out on this poor guy and then he got all embarrassed because he didn't realize that I was only a 13-14 year old...I can remember that incident like it was yesterday...I was also very embarrassed..

[WestSeattle2]

102. Trust me...

he probably remembers it like it was yesterday too! lol....poor dude.

[VelmaD]

100. I'm really upset

with all these stories about girls who are 13 and look 21. A part of me wants to call bullshit. When I was 13 I wore a C or D cup and guess what...I still looked like a 13 year old...just a 13 year old with big boobs.

I'm sick and tired of a culture that encourages 13 year old girls to dress like 21 year olds. What the hell ever happened to letting kids be kids?

And frankly, a whole helluva lot of parents need to have their heads examined for buying their daughters the clothes and makeup that let them look like 21 year olds.

Sorry. End of rant.

[WestSeattle2]

103. Could not possibly agree more....Remember that

Jon Bonet girl who was murdered back in the late 90's? Talk about CREEPY. Some parts of society just don't seem to find it creepy to dress girls up, or allow them to dress up, as adults. UGH.

Alot of young teenagers I see in malls almost look like hookers, except you can tell they are young teenagers. It really is strange that they find that look attractive.

What's funny, is when you ask teenage boys if THEY like that look, almost to a guy they say hell no, the girls look like prostitutes! So.....why do girls dress like that?!

[VelmaD]

107. And you hit the nail on the head...

you CAN tell they're really teenagers. I generally don't buy this whole "she looked in her 20s" argument. People will now proceed to disagree with me...that's their right...but in most cases you can tell when it's a young teen trying to look older.

[bleedingheart]

111. the key is the behavior

they might look older but their attitude, speech and behavior gives it away...no 20 year old man could fall for a teen without knowing it...unless he was deluding himself...

now I did look older than my age at 13 (no makeup and dressed very yuppie like) and to be honest I was always really creeped out by the advances of older men and didn't really date until I went to college...however there are girls who were very keen on the attention. Meanwhile I think I was still playing with barbie at 14... When I was in 7th grade (back in the 80's) one of the girls I went to school with was caught having sex with the 20 something bus driver and one of his friends ...he got fired but her parents didn't press charges because she had been caught doing it before!!! She ended up in catholic school...never knew what happened with her...

[bleedingheart]

110. ever try and shop for young gals today?

all they market is slutwear...and for who?

now there are mothers and fathers who encourage it...they think it is cute to see their little gal be considered a hottie..until of course she ends up preggers.

Most girls just want to wear jeans (no low riders) and t-shirts.....but then try and find a t-shirt that isn't too tight too revealing or that has some dumb slogan on it for a decent price.

I have a 7 year old girl and it is hard to find stuff for her that doesn't border on creepy...I manage to do it but it takes some time....although I do give in a bit to my little gal's penchant for glitter on clothes...although they are always age appropriate...however all of the rest of the family ends up with glitter too after the first washing..

Now I do know some mothers who live vicariously through their young daughters and that is typically a recipe for disaster...

[Kailassa]

113. So I'm a liar and I dressed my daughter like a slut?

My daughter hated dresses and anything revealing. She had sensitive skin and hated make-up. She was very shy and tried to avoid attention by always wearing jeans or cords and big shirts. Which she paid for herself, by the way, earning money by being out on her bicycle at 6 every morning delivering newspapers.

But she grew tall at a very young age, and matured early because of both her nature and circumstances. By the time she was 12 she had lived in 12 different houses, in 12 very different types of places. She had had a lot of unpleasant experiences to survive. She had 2 younger brothers who were both handicapped, and had to help me a lot by taking care of them after school while I was at work. She was a nice kid though, and her teachers had enough respect for her to give her jobs babysitting and cleaning their houses.

So by the time she was 12, despite being still very shy, she was fiercely independant and stubborn, and a hell of a lot more mature in many ways than many 20 year olds. On Saturdays she often took the boys (her brothers) to the park nearby while I cleaned the house. She was a bogan, (flannelette shirts, jeans, a plain, natural look,) so it was not her clothing that made other women think she was their age and that, like them, she was taking her childeren there to play. She had a deep, resonant voice, too, and did not sound at all like a teenager.

It broke my heart to not be able to give her a stable, "normal" upbringing in a nice 2-parent family, but part of the trouble had been my efforts to do just that. I'd put up with a lot more than I should have from her step-father, partly to keep the family together for the children's sake, and partly because, with 2 handicapped little boys, I just couldn't leave until they were school-age. It was not until a year after we'd left him that my daughter told me what he'd been doing to her. At least it was only physical violence, not sexual, but he had her convinced each time he was cruel to her that I'd told him to do it, and that I'd do the same things to her as well if she complained.

Now, if you've read this far, you might decide that my daughter was an exception. But it's just as likely that she was not, and that experiences like this are a lot more common than you realize. And I don't like you insulting other people in this thread, or their mothers, any more than I like you insulting me.

[VelmaD]

115. holy crap

Try stepping back for just a second and seeing how the situation you describe is 100 percents NOT what I was talking about. There is a substantive difference between a young girl forced to grow up fast who seems more mature than she is...and the unfortunate societal trend to try to dress young girls like tramps at increasingly younger and younger ages. The second one was what I was talking about. Dial it back a little bit and I think you'll see that.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

101. I Respect The Hell Out Of Her. Hopefully Now The Charges Will Be Dismissed

[Donald Ian Rankin]

104. Too little information

It could be anything from something bordering on child abuse to a completely honest and understandable mistake (from the story the latter seems more likely, but there's no way of telling). Leave it to whoever has to decide whether or not to charge him, and hope that either way the girl gets some form of help.

[Jack_DeLeon]

106. If that is indeed the truth, then the man should go free...

all of this zero tolerance bullshit is just that bullshit.

[Ariana Celeste]

109. Good for her!

My mother would have done the same thing if I or my step sister had ever put a man in that kind of position.

Like it or not, men aren't always totally guilty and girls aren't always completely innocent.

[Xithras]

112. Poor guy, happened to me (not the charges).

I've mentioned this here before, but it's one of the reasons I don't automatically crucify men in these situations.

When I was 16, I slept with a 12 year old (to be entirely fair, I wasn't her first). She told me she was 15, her 16 year old sister (who I knew from school) told me that she was 15, and she was physically developed enough to have passed for an even older girl. We went to a party, had a little too much to drink, and ended up in bed together. After that, we hooked up again a few more times over the next week or so.

I had no clue about her real age until her sister found out that we were sleeping together and absolutely freaked out. I did a bit of freaking out too when she told me how old her sister really was. The sister had apparently wanted me to keep her busy at the party, but didn't expect anything to actually come of it. When the truth came out, we both ended up feeling like total idiots.

So what do you do in situations like that? I, like this guy, had no clue how old the girl really was. If she says she's a certain age, acts a certain age, and physically appears to be a certain age, how can you imprison a guy when it's discovered that she wasn't really that age? Even during my horniest teenage years I'd never have slept with a 12 year old knowingly, and I felt like a complete ass for months about doing it even inadvertently. When I look at my daughter...who coincidentally happens to BE 12 right now...and think about someone doing that to her, I still feel sick about it inside.

If the guy knew her real age, he should go to prison. If he didn't and she really did lie about it, he should go free. Still, there does need to be a trial to figure out which really happened.

[Kailassa]

114. Zero tolerance inevitably leads to injustice.

In Australia last year, a well respected teacher was sacked and publicly humiliated by being called a child abuser on the national media by politicians.

His crime? Years previously, when he'd been a 21 year old dating a 15 year old, he'd fondled her breasts. She was only one month off 16. Her parents caught them together and had him charged, but there was never a suggestion that the girlfriend had not been as willing as he was.

He was very lucky. His whole town, (Orbost) and the principal and other teachers at his school, all stood together and demanded that he was given his job back.

Of course it was all political, bloody pollies thinking they could impress the voters by making an example of someone to prove they were tough on paedophiles. So his supporters worked until they had turned public opinion around so thoroughly that it was then politically expedient to give him his job back.

[VelmaD]

116. Everybody has their sympathetic story on this...

but the reality is that in most teenage pregnancies the girl is impregnanted by someone in their 20s. It's just not right. There's enough of a difference in age and life experience that it's hard not to believe a whole lot of young girls are getting taken advantage of...even the ones who think they're "in love". I remember what my hormones were like at 14 or 15. I also remember how emotionally unprepared I was for sex and relationships.

I'm not trying to start a flame war. I'm not trying to say this particular story isn't sympathetic or that the guy should have been branded a child molester or whatever. I just wish we could all talk seriously about the bigger societal problems underlying all of this.

[Kailassa]

117. The societal problems can only be helped by education and

making the society more supportive to parents, both married and single.

Most parents want to do the right thing by their children, and most young men do not want to have sex with a teenager who is too young to know what she is doing.

When I was a kid at school we didn't have sex education, we had "health" as a compulsary subject from grade one upwards. We were taught basics about washing and cleanliness, diet, how the body works, and sex was a natural component of the course.

I'd like to see this come back as a compulsary subject right through school, but different to the other subjects in that it would have to be run by a teacher who the kids could respect and talk to. And no marks being given for it, the only obligation on the kids being to attend. Ideally the kids would be encouraged to discuss how they feel and what they want. A great deal of teenagers social/sexual learning comes from talking to each other and figuring things out for themselves, as too many parents are too judgmental, too busy or too ignorant to be much help to their kids. So use this, have guided discussions, respect their views, and they may develop an understanding of what is right for them, and the confidence to work towards that.