$66.50 a barrel today.

[lonestarnot]

Fill 'em up. Only going to climb. $5.00 per gallon soon.

[Systematic Chaos]

1. I get the most AWESOME mileage...

...riding my bicycle. :)

[Warpy]

11. My other car is an electric moped

and I use it unless I'm going a great distance or hauling a lot of stuff. It draws a massive 24 watts at full charge.

It's also a lot of fun.

[Taguba]

2. But the economy is great. Capitalism at its best... Ugh

[pbca]

9. Captalism doesn't have much to do with it at this point

Even if Oil was nationalized and subsidized (actually it already is subsidized - indirectly) that wouldn't make there be more oil.

[Jacobin]

3. Mission Accomplished

[SammyWinstonJack]

30. You betcha!

[pbca]

4. Yep

no real doubt about it, the price of Oil/Gas is not going to come down substantially - ever. It may fluctuate (up and down a little) but my guess is that it'll go up somewhere around $5-10 a barrel every year and that's if nothing goes seriously wrong (like another war etc.).

[lonestarnot]

I think you are right pbca!

and you're added! Whoohooo, my buddy!

[pbca]

18. Good to see you again too

:toast:

[lonestarnot]

21. thanks!

:toast::bounce: :thumbsup: :hug:

[LynzM]

5. Gas went up another $.10 from last night....

Which was up $.05 from the night before. Wheeeee. Starting to look like time to invest in a more fuel-efficient car...

[Orrex]

6. $70 is the new $30

[Warpy]

7. Oil company projections I've read lately

keep saying the price per barrel will go to the $38-$42 level within two years.

I believe that like I believe the tooth fairy will make me rich in my dotage when gum disease claims all my teeth.

They're counting on a big correction in the Chinese economy reducing their demand. I don't think even a massive recession in China will propel people out of their cars and off their motorbikes and back onto bicycles. It's just not going to happen. They'll live on noodles and cabbage, but they'll keep driving.

So yeah, get used to gas prices taking two steps forward, one step back.

[The_Casual_Observer]

8. Gas prices are "on the march"

Let freedom for gas prices reign!

[Squatch]

10. And there's not a goddamned thing any of us can do about it

Pres who's an oilman, still maintaining tie to oil companies, while these companies are making enormous profits.

[lonestarnot]

12. Yes there is, buy an ethanol vehicle, grow corn and cane!

and on edit, I have an electric scooter, but it takes electricity to charge it.

[Dogmudgeon]

13. It's only about $100 to convert

Anyone can have a Flex-Fuel vehicle.

--p!

[Squatch]

14. Well, there you go. I'll just pop right over to my dealership

and buy one of these ethanol vehicles just as soon as I sow my acres of corn and cane.

[Seedersandleechers]

16. I'm not knocking ethanol, but isn't it going to take a lot of oil

to grow corn and cane ie, plowing, harvesting, etc.?

[lonestarnot]

19. We grew the shit before all that machinery was developed.

Take a look at Brazil. They are energy independent, albeit, took 30 years.

[NickB79]

36. Brazil is a poor country to compare us to

First of all, they use sugar cane to produce ethanol. The higher the sugar content of the substrate material, the more ethanol you can produce. You can get much more fuel per acre of sugar cane than you can per acre of corn, but we can't grow sugar cane in much of the US due to the climate.

Secondly, the number of cars in Brazil is far lower than the US, meaning it is easier for them to grow sufficient fuel to be energy-independent.

Third, Brazil isn't exactly the most environmentally friendly nation when it comes to deforestation. Cutting down forests and plowing under savanna to plant sugar cane for ethanol and soybeans for biodiesel is just as bad as importing oil from overseas.

[Dogmudgeon]

22. Ethanol is a relatively efficient replacement for gasoline

The "EROEI" -- Energy Returned Over Energy Invested -- makes it attractive as a "transitional fuel". That "transitional" means "until we can move to more efficient, possibly small electric, vehicles".

One of the Energy/Environment guys, JohnWxy, is somewhat of an ethanol booster, and has posted many links. I don't agree 100% with all his positions, but he's on solid ground with the ethanol-for-gasoline advocacy. The forum, by the way, is mandatory reading for anyone with concerns about energy and environmental issues. It's probably the best such forum on the Internet today -- even better than Running On Empty.

--p!

[lonestarnot]

23. eewwww thanks pigwidgeon!

[Seedersandleechers]

31. Thanks for the info.

[NickB79]

34. Regular Unleaded: $2.55. E85 fuel: $2.45

There are several stations down the road here selling E85 (which is already a highly subsidized fuel BTW), and you save 10 friggin cents per gallon! When you realize that you get several miles per gallon less with ethanol than you do with gasoline, where is the savings?

[Horse with no Name]

15. It was $2.49/gal here yesterday

Your thread made me look out the window--it is now $2.55/gal.

[Dogmudgeon]

17. And it's not even April

Prices typically peak around both Memorial and Labor Day. I'd also think that we will start seeing peaks during hurricane season, depending on what gets whacked, and how hard.

The price to beat is $70/bbl.

Welcome to your Brand Spankin' New World of Peak Oil.

--p!
And you know who the "Spankin'" applies to, right?

[pbca]

20. Yeah but

Have you noticed that

- they go up in the winter because of home heating
- they go up in the spring...well mainly because that's when Bush likes to start fights, if there's no fight, they'll think of another reason
- they go up in the summer because of air conditioning and extra driving
- they go up in the fall because of hurricanes

[Dogmudgeon]

26. Close ... too close, in fact.

Gasoline has its own cycle, but different categories of fuel increase during different times. In the winter, it's natural gas; in the summer, gasoline.

The end result is approximately the same -- we suffer higher prices. But this is exactly what Peak Oil is about. Prices are much more volatile because there is almost NO assurance that the supply will match the demand. Most of these prices are based on a combination of futures markets and short-term news-related "herd behavior". Natural Gas is also a petrochemical, and its price went from $7 to $14 back down to $9 since just Katrina (and an unprofitably warm winter in North America).

Once the statistics show clearly that we have passed Peak Oil, the economy of panic and scarcity will sink in. Gasoline will increase in price dramatically; heating gas is likely to be regulated in order to prevent deaths in the winter; brownouts will become increasingly common, especially during heat waves. And the public will clamor for wind, solar, and tidal power -- as well as nuclear power under tighter regulation. There is just about no pressure for energy solutions today. In a short time -- maybe as "short" as this year -- the pressure will become hot and heavy.

And, sadly, probably 30 years too late.

--p!

[pbca]

29. That's why I'm all for

high gas prices. Personally I don't drive anyway, I'm in Toronto and you really don't have to here, but I don't want any subsidies on fuel prices, I don't want the government to do anything at all about it - even if the oil companies are making record profits.

The high prices will start to fuel demand for alternatives - in many places they already are, SUV sales are plummeting, hybrid car and smart car sales are up, and demand for alternative fuels as well as government and corporate interest in alternative fuels are increasing. If fuel prices should come down, all of that would evaporate in a week - just like it has before.

Even after the fuel crunches of the 70s and early 90s millions of people in North America still thought the SUV and the mini-van were a pretty good idea - enough so that they outsold every other kind of vehicle for the better part of a decade. It seems as soon as the crisis is over, people forget there ever was one.

[MadHound]

24. A bit of a solution for you folks, at least if you can ride a motorcycle

The Bajaj Chetak, gets 100mpg, tops out at 55-60mph. Four speed tranny means quick pick up, a very stable bike. I've put three thousand miles on mine since last fall(I have a round trip commute of 52 miles), and just really love it. The only thing I've really found fault with is the tires. Like most new vehicles, these folks put on crappy tires at the factory. I had a set of Michelin S-83s put on earlier this week because after 3000 miles, the factory tire on the back was nearly bald, and the front one was going.

I ride in a town with pretty heavy traffic, especially when the students are here, and I have yet to have any major problems. And there is nothing like the experience you get when you are out on the road on a bike in the country. It is as close as to flying as one can get without leaving the ground.

You can find out more here<http://www.bajajusa.com>

[lonestarnot]

32. Be careful... I only ride mine through the neighborhood.

[MadHound]

35. Actually, I've found that riding through rural areas is great

Little traffic, the biggest problem is deer jumping out in front of you. It is when I hit town that the rush hour madness starts. I stick to back roads as much as possible, but there are times when I have to hit the main ones, and yet, when I do, the bike performs just fine, and the vast majority of drivers behave well. Sure, I get the occaissional idiot, but that happens no matter what you're driving.

[lonestarnot]

37. Just be careful.

[theHandpuppet]

25. Why the rising prices at this time?

Can someone fill me in? Thanks!

[MadHound]

27. Well, I live in a college town,

And gas prices have always gone up around spring break each year right before the students take off. However when the town is dead the next week, prices usually have gone back down. They haven't this year so :shrug:

[Dogmudgeon]

28. Political problems with Nigeria, Venezuela ...

... as well as the more technical problems that both the Cantarell (PEMEX) and Ghawar (Saud/ARAMCO) oil fields have each passed their critical profitability points, and are only getting by on "water cut", the practice of injecting huge volumes of seawater into the fields to push out the oil. Water cut also quickly degrades, and eventually destroys, the oil field.

There have been NO major oilfield finds since 2002. NONE. (Correct me if I'm wrong, please, but even with corrected info, that discovery rate is likely to be very low.) Before that, there were maybe three or four years since WW2 that had no discoveries.

We're actually very close to a major "energy crisis". I am surprised that gasoline prices are as low as they are. Unless we find some more oil fields in a hurry, this may be the last year we have inexpensive petroleum.

Oh, you think it's expensive? Well, you're right; it's a relative measure. Matthew Simmons, an economist/petrologist, has calculated that the next stable point for petroleum is $180-200 per barrel. Subject to inflation, of course.

--p!

[lonestarnot]

33. Yep corn growers, can growers, get ready, your crop is about to take over.