Is there an immigration crisis in the US?

[cynatnite]

Poll question: Is there an immigration crisis in the US?

[DBoon]

1. There's a wage and social service crises

immigration policy plays a role in each.

[David__77]

2. Nope.

Not a crisis for me. It's a good thing from the big picture perspective.

[cynatnite]

3. Wow! A tie so far.

This is surprising.

[sandnsea]

4. A Labor Exploitation crisis

It would really be a good idea if we started labeling it for what it really is. $5.15 minimum wage, no health care, slave labor overseas, illegal wages to immigrants. There's a Labor Exploitation crisis because of Predatory Employers.

[PVK]

5. Immigrants are not blameless.

They realize this is illegal and yet they come and participate in it.

[sandnsea]

6. Yeah, just like draft dodgers

Avoiding to have to kill innocent people in war. They break the law going to Canada too. The bastards.

People do what they have to do to survive sometimes. We've lost our humanity if we put changeable laws on a piece of paper over human dignity.

[PVK]

9. What about starving Americans?

Huh?

[sandnsea]

12. Oh. My. God.

Puhleeze. There aren't any STARVING Americans. And when ALL workers in this country can be protected by our labor laws, predatory businesses won't be able to exploit illegals anymore. That's the whole point. Bring them out from the underground economy so all businesses and workers compete in an honest environment.

[PVK]

14. There ARE too starving Americans.

But my point is why should we think about immigrants first and native citizens last? Are Americans to sacrifice in order to help aliens, or do we all need to work together so a rising tide lifts all boats?

I think Reverend Jackson has it right:

http://www.suntimes.com/output/jesse/cst-edt-jesse281.html

[sandnsea]

18. Well you must have missed his point

It says right there in the headline, wage war on poverty, not immigrants. Labor rights for ALL workers, here and abroad, immigrant or not. Jackson isn't saying put one group before another.

And, NO there are NO starving Americans. There are Americans who have to go to a food bank or soup kitchen to eat, there are Americans who have to skimp on food. But there are no STARVING Americans. Huge difference between starvation and a mac 'n cheese diet.

[PVK]

19. There ARE starving Americans. You can read about them on line.

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0308/S00011.htm

http://www.secondharvest.org/

http://www.hungerinamerica.org/

{SNIP}

The results of Hunger in America 2006 should be discomforting. It is difficult to understand how people living in this land of plenty can have to make decisions between paying for food or other household necessities. It is troubling that children and seniors, the country's most vulnerable citizens, may have to forgo their most basic need - the need for food - because of a lack resources. Hunger in America 2006 tells the stories of more than 25 million Americans—including 9 million children and nearly 3 million seniors—who receive emergency food assistance each year from America's Second Harvest—The Nation’s Food Bank Network of charitable agencies.

{SNIP}

But, regardless, it is you who seems to have missed something. You have just decided to attack me rather than to see that I have a rational, balanced point of view. I SHARE WHAT JESSE THINKS. What the hell else do you need??? Do you think he means we should end poverty for immigrants only? NO...his point is that EVERYONE needs help--AMERICANS TOO. What if Americans are starving or suffering because of immigration policies? Do we throw the Americans overboard and keep the immigrants? Jesus H. Christ, how can you not see that having all of these illegals here taking lower wages under the table is HURTING wage levels here and depleting social services budgets?

[sandnsea]

22. He's not blaming immigrants

What is it about "war on poverty, not immigrants" that you don't understand??? You and he are NOT saying the same thing.

I already said that there are people who have to scrimp on food. That is NOT the same as starvation. We don't have people literally starving to death in this country. We just don't.

I often forget that the person I'm talking to might be young and inexperienced. If that's the case, sorry.

[PVK]

23. I am NOT blaming immigrants.

I am blaming the SYSTEM.

Both the employers who hire illegals knowingly AND illegals who don't follow the laws coming here or living here.

THEY ARE ILLEGAL. What's so hard to get about that? The employers should follow the law and so should the immigrants.

I'm 57 years old. Stop with the condescension. Just because I don't see in lockstep with you doesn't indicate a lack of experience or understanding. That's insulting.

[sandnsea]

25. That's just disjointed to me

You agree with Jackson who says it's a war on poverty not immigrants. You don't blame immigrants, you blame the system. Then you go off on the illegals again. I can't follow that, sorry.

And I wasn't being condescending, I was being sincere. Some young people only know what they're told, not what they've seen and sometimes I forget that. Since you're 57, I've got no clue why you think people are starving to death in this country, but they're not. It's certainly your choice to believe what you want though.

[PVK]

26. I didn't "go off on illegals".

I WENT OFF ON THE SYSTEM.

"The employers should follow the law and so should the immigrants." EXACT QUOTE.

You are READING SELECTIVELY.

[sandnsea]

27. Here

http://audio.wegoted.com/podcasting/33006Kerry.mp3

This is the Democratic plan. I don't know what else to say to you because I'm just not getting your point.

[PVK]

28. Here.

http://www.democrats.org/a/2006/03/dean_comprehens.php

"Criminalizing families and the work of clergy is not the way forward. A comprehensive and compassionate approach must protect all U.S. workers and their wages, prevent exploitation of immigrant workers, and offer immigrants who have earned it the opportunities and responsibilities of U.S. citizenship."

Howard Dean

[sandnsea]

29. That's McCain-Kennedy

I don't know what you're arguing about, I really don't. McCain-Kennedy does all of that.

[hexola]

31. take a clue from the immigrant..and get a job...! (nt)

[PVK]

33. You mean take a job at a lower wage to compete with immigrants?

Sorry, but THAT'S THE PROBLEM -- illegal immigration is driving down wages and forcing people to make this choice, thereby driving down the standard of living for EVERYONE!

It's a race to the bottom, don't you get it???

[EFerrari]

7. Imagine that. Hungry people want to eat.

Shame on them :sarcasm:

[PVK]

8. Again, other nations don't give a shit....

they won't let you in anyway, starving or not, without following their rules!

We are NOT the world's keepers.

They can come here LEGALLY.

[High Plains]

13. The problem is they can't come legally

What is the visa quota for Mexico? 20,000 a year?

And yet everyone knows there are millions of Mexican citizens working in the US. Some want to become US citizens, others want to make some money and go back home.

The problem is the gap between our immigration law and reality.

Some argue for reducing that gap by strict enforcement of existing law, but to me, that seems both inhumane and fruitless. Are you really going to deport 12 million people? Are you really going to turn the border into the Western hemisphere equivalent of the Berlin Wall, gun-toting guards and snarling dogs and all? Are you really going to throw thousands of small businesspeople in prison? And what kind of country are we if we do all that?

Better to regularize the status of these hard-working immigrants without rights or papers. Give them temporary worker permits, give them a track to citizenship, work with them to create a stronger workers' movement with more rights and higher wages for all.

In the long run, the solution is not more or harsher laws, but improvement in the standard of living in Mexico and Central America. That's a long-term problem...

[PVK]

15. I am in agreement here.

"Better to regularize the status of these hard-working immigrants without rights or papers. Give them temporary worker permits, give them a track to citizenship, work with them to create a stronger workers' movement with more rights and higher wages for all."

American citizens should NOT have to sacrifice for illegals.

[lovuian]

10. Theres a Healthcare crisis...

too.......

[Swamp Rat]

11. No, there is a 'Class War' - the über-rich want to exploit ALL humans.

[EFerrari]

17. LOL!

Perfecto, como siempre!

:rofl:

[wiggs]

16. No. The immigration issue takes back seat to

the energy crisis

the election reform crisis

the environmental degradation crisis

the sudan crisis

the iraq crisis

the loose nukes crisis

the health care crisis

the education crisis

the world hunger crisis

the democracy/corporatism/lobbying crisis

the deficit crisis

....and a dozen other problems and issues

[Lilith Velkor]

20. There has been for over 500 years now.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

21. Only in the minds of those who fear bogeymen.

"Islamofascists", "Uppity blacks", "Terrorists", "Godless Commies", "Bomb throwing anarchists", "Dope-smoking hippies", "FemiNazis", "Tree huggers", "The Gay Agenda", etc, etc, etc.

"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary." H.L. Mencken

[mondo joe]

24. We have a chronic illegal immigration problem.

So I voted OTHER.

[megatherium]

30. This could cost the Democrats the election in 2008, if the public

reaches the conclusion that we support illegal immigration. Whenever progressives suggest that concern about illegal immigration is misinformed, or racist; or whenever progressives argue that it's not really a big problem -- Americans will reach the conclusion that progressives support illegal immigration.

[hexola]

32. Im in PA - I will take some pics of the main street in town...

You will think it is a picture from Mexico...

On the flipside - they have revitalized downtown in a way that the "development corporations" and a county full or rednecks could never do...