BUSTED!!! - Finally, ABC News and Even the Pentagon Got Something Right...

[Peter Frank]

Charles Humble, chairman and CEO of the National Institute for Truth Verification, which has supplied sells the CVSA (Computer Voice Stress Analyzer).

Over time, thousands of his $10,000 "truth machines" (a laptop, a mic, and special software) have been sold nationwide to our police depts., and to the Pentagon. The Pentagon relied on this machine in Guantanamo & prisons in Iraq.

Humble (calling himself "Dr." Humble) is now exposed to be a hack, and his "truth machine" is exposed to be a fraud. At home & abroad, innocent people have been falsely imprisoned -- and many guilty have been set free (including terrorists).

7 minute Primetime video -- http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=1787311

CVSA website -- http://www.cvsa1.com


Please comment...

[Peter Frank]

1. Please watch the Video...

It says more than I can describe -- http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=1787311

[Hubert Flottz]

2. The Republicans HATE the truth.

It's their worst nightmare!

Your link didn't work for me...

[Peter Frank]

3. True...

...but what do you think of the video?

[Hubert Flottz]

4. I couldn't see the video the link is inoperative...

[file83]

5. There is only one way to verify if he is a "fraud" - have him use his own

machine!!

[MADem]

6. If you are a sociopath or a psychopath, your voice may not show any

signs of stress if you don't want it to. Screw with anyone who is halfway normal, and even if they are telling the truth, they will sound stressed.

[Hubert Flottz]

7. Right Rummy and his pals would sound stressed if you turned the

dogs loose on them!

[tenshi816]

19. That's very true.

I had to take a lie detector test once because of a robbery that occurred where I worked - not just me, but everybody who worked there. Of course I had nothing to do with the crime, but I was so worked up about the test I could barely speak. I was terrified that I would be asked if I'd ever smoked pot and stupid things like that. I'm sure I came across as someone who had something to hide.

They never caught the thief either.

[noamnety]

29. agreed, this is no different from a regular polygraph

I've been through a few of those tests myself, for routine screenings in the army. I wasn't selected for it, but some of my people randomly were, and so I volunteered to do it myself and go first, to show there was nothing to it. I lived to regret that.

Those of you that are !!!OUTRAGED!!! need to know this isn't any different than a regular polygraph machine. They can measure stress reactions, but they can't measure lies. Their only benefit is to stress someone to the point where you can coerce them into a verbal confession.

I couldn't pass the math portion of the polygraph:

what's 2+2?
4
Are you sure?
Yes

**** ding ding ding that's a lie!***

They had to stop and recalibrate the machine at one point because everything I said looked like a lie (or "inconclusive," as they actually term it), and then the lies started coming unrelated to when they were asking questions or I was answering them - it was just a slope that went up and up smoothly off the chart. That was when the blood pressure cuff was too tight, and I was answering questions, but in my head this was going on: "my arm's numb. Holy cow, look at the veins popping out in my arm. I've never seen anything like that. This doesn't feel right at all, this is like having a tourniquet, what if all the circulation in my arm gets cut off, how long would it take to do some serious damage ... "

Inconclusive test after inconclusive test, there was nothing for me to confess, and they couldn't just walk away from it til they had either a clean confession or a clean result on paper. Eventually the secretary of the army suspended the entire program, so that was the end of the ordeal. Of the 7 of us that took it, 4 flunked on the first go round and had to reschedule. Three of them made it through on their 2nd or 3rd attempt. I was still working on the math section, with increasingly irate testers. If you're a person that tends to overthink things - if you start thinking about what alternative math systems would look like, and the fact that numbers are symbols, and we could easily change the symbols without changing the meaning - it's pretty much hopeless.

In short, if you don't like this guy's truthiness detector, you should have the exact same level of outrage about the other kind as well.

[Peter Frank]

30. This is worse than a "poly"graph...

This is a "mono"graph.

A polygraph monitors many functions simultainiously -- and the end result is inevitably a judgement call by a trained expert. Because of all these variables, prosecutors cannot use polygraphs in a court of law w/o the consent of the person tested.

[Peter Frank]

40. Exactly... n/t

[Peter Frank]

15. Excellent point!

I'd like to see that video!

[silverweb]

8. This guy belongs in jail.

His fraudulent credentials and his fraudulent machine have fleeced taxpayers, freed the guilty, and convicted the innocent.

Unbelievable.

[ClintonTyree]

9. A phony "Doctor", a phony "Christian" with a .......

phony "truth detector".......smells like GOP to me. Such a "good christian" man dealing in falsehoods, my, my, what IS the world coming to? :eyes: The use of this "patent medicine machine" will have every case it's been used in thrown out of court. Plus it's been used to set several very questionable terrorist suspects free. :eyes: "Doctor" Humble, my ass! His doctorate coming from an unaccredited bible college for a total of 6 hours of studying the bible. :puke: These people make me sick! Like I said, he's got GOP written all over himself.

[Peter Frank]

22. Exactly!

The "Right" likes to pigeonhole critics of the actions of Fundamentalists as being Anti-God. Speaking for myself -- I wish the fundamentalists were more like Christ himself (the founder of Christianity.

"Dr." Humble has exhibited no such characteristics.

[Hubert Flottz]

10. Okay I got it to work that time, WOW!

K&R!

[slaveplanet]

11. Mr Humble

gets a contract for his flim flam hocus pocus machine...all the while sporting an honorary doctorate from an unacredited bible college in a strip mall that he recieved for doing 6 hours of bible study (by his own admission).

and he still calls himself a doctor....

These are the ADULTS in charge?

Throw this one in the polygraph-brainscanner dustbin of snake oil hocus pocus trash science.

There are police stations all over the country still using this junk.

[Peter Frank]

13. "There are police stations all over the country still using this junk..."

It's been in use since 1988! -- http://www.abanet.org/genpractice/magazine/tpg/palmatr.html

Imagine how many people are still incarcerated based solely on this mumbo jumbo "truth machine?" :tinfoilhat: :mad:

[54anickel]

16. Eliciting confessions from gullible suspects with a vegetable strainer?

That is so sad and funny at the same time. They can legally do that?

That poor kid in the video...good thing they didn't assume case closed after his "confession".

[Peter Frank]

17. The 14 Yr. Old was convicted of stabbing his younger sister to death...

...based on the "truth machine" results.

Even worse, while this kid was dealing with the immediate loss of his sister -- the cops used the findings of "the machine" in the interrogation process to distort this kid's reality to the point where he finally confessed to the murder!

He spent 9 months in jail before the real killer was found.

[54anickel]

20. I know, I saw the video. He'd still be in jail if they decided case closed

and never even looked for the DNA evidence that got the real killer. Obviously someone didn't have complete faith in the machines result.

As to the vegetable strainer comment - it was in reply to the other article you posted. Xerox machines and vegetable strainers? Would be funny if it weren't so sad that they use those tactics to get confessions.

I was not making light of the "kid's" ordeal.

There's no need to shout. Perhaps you should "lighten up" a bit. :eyes:

[Peter Frank]

23. I didn't make the post you're referring to...

And there's no need for anyone to lighten up when arbitrary injustice is fully exposed & documented. That's the time firmly hold people accountable - in order to insure it doesn't happen again.

Shouting this out is an obligation to me.

[54anickel]

25. Huh? you are Peter Frank aren't you?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x801855#801924

Peter Frank (1000+ posts) Fri Mar-31-06 03:47 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. "There are police stations all over the country still using this junk..."

It's been in use since 1988! -- http://www.abanet.org/genpractice/magazine/tpg/palmatr....

Imagine how many people are still incarcerated based solely on this mumbo jumbo "truth machine?"


And from the article linked to that post...

snip>

It is doubtful that anyone working within the criminal justice system for some period has not heard stories of inventive police officers, eliciting confessions from gullible suspects by using a Xerox machine to print out copies of "He’s Lying," or by placing a vegetable strainer with wires attached to it on the person’s head to monitor his brain waves! Almost anything can be portrayed as a magic device that will enable its user to see what is true. However, because a resultant confession does not mean that the device itself discriminates between what is true and what is deceptive. Unfortunately, this point is missed by those at the NITV and an even larger number of law enforcement officers and administrators.


Perhaps you didn't read it that far? :shrug: :hi:

[Name removed]

32. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Swamp Rat]

12. I wonder if Charles Humble will be a new Fall Guy for Rummy&Co.?

[rman]

14. Ministry of Truth,

more shades of 1984

[Hubert Flottz]

18. And some shades of 1934-44 too!

The GESTAPO is alive and well in the USA!

[Peter Frank]

46. "Vee have vays of making you tok."... n/t

[Oeditpus Rex]

21. A lot of conclusion-jumping going on here

And some very poor reporting by ABC.

The only thing they "dug up" was that this guy doesn't have a legitimate doctorate. There's nothing "fraudulent" or "phony" about the CVSA, any more than a Polygraph is "fraudulent" or "phony." But ABC didn't make that comparison, nor did they point out that neither CVSA nor Polygraph evidence is admissable in court. Both are only tools that a prosecutor can use to help get a case to trial.

Police departments purchase the CVSA because they're relatively inexpensive and portable, and because it takes only a few hours' training to use one. Polygraphs are much more expensive, no more (or less) accurate and it takes a long time to become proficient at administering and interpreting the test. Indeed, there are few qualified Polygraph operators in the U.S.

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Peter Frank]

26. Please Watch the Video...

...It's only 7 minutes -- http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=1787311

[Oeditpus Rex]

39. I watched the video

How do you think I noted the lapses in ABC's reporting?

I know of what I speak. I've seen the CVSA demonstrated and had it explained to me by a police officer qualified to operate it. He extolled its virtues as well as its drawbacks.

Everything I said in my previous post is true as per what I saw and was told by the police. Yet, you attack my credibility as a fellow liberal who has absolutely no motive for deceiving you while you tacitly defend the credibility of the "MSM" that's constantly under attack in this forum.

[madokie]

27. Thanks bro', excuse my choice of word but we are so fucked

[Peter Frank]

28. We're Bing Fucked With...

We're fucked if we give up!

;)

[madokie]

38. I agree with that, I know no give up, just figuratively speaking

I've carried too big a load for way too many years to give up now.

[sendero]

31. Lie detectors...

... of all kinds are a joke, they don't work, they never have and they never will.

Any person with a passing familiarity with the psychology of human thought and behavior would understand why.

They are ok for measuring stress in people who feel stress, and nothing more.

[Peter Frank]

33. Only Problem Here is That...

...Our government used this gadget for 18 years to convict some innocent people & absolve some guilty -- at home & abroad.

Please watch the video before you post -- http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=1787311

[sendero]

34. I don't need a video..

... to tell me that there is no such thing as a lie detector. :)

[Peter Frank]

36. Thank you for your sanity... n/t

[Peter Frank]

37. AlI I Know For Certain - There is No Such Thing as a Truth Detector!...

;)

[htuttle]

35. So -- it looks like the Cylon Detector was fake after all!

What about this can of Monster Repellent I just bought yesterday?

[jmowreader]

44. You don't have any monsters, do you? It works just fine.

But hang onto that can of monster repellent; if Bush decides to come to town, spray down your doors with it and he won't come over and eat all the food in your refrigerator.

[Hutzpa]

41. Busted...they should have used his

own machine to test his lying ass. Degree at Christian Strip Mall. Proud Dr.Humble


:bounce:

[Peter Frank]

42. Give him a break...

After all, he did take 6 hrs. of Bible study to earn his honorary doctorate.

[Peter Frank]

43. Find Out of the Truth Machine is Being Used in Your Town or County...

Chances are -- it is.

There are currently 1316 CVSA machines employed by police & sheriff dpts. nationwide (only 18 abroad). -- http://www.cvsa1.com/clients.php

And check out this disclaimer, "Due to prior agreement, Federal agencies will not be listed."

:mad:

[high density]

45. Wow, his website bashes the "elite liberal media"

http://www.cvsa1.com/ABCNews3-30-06.php

The question is: Who are you going to believe - the elite liberal media and the entrenched polygraph bureaucracy, or the 1,500 independent law enforcement agencies that use the CVSA daily and conduct tens-of-thousands-of exams annually with outstanding results?

So Dr. Wackjob, why would Brian Ross make this stuff up? It just doesn't serve any purpose for him to do that.