America's decline starts now

[ls317]

America's decline starts now

The disastrous foreign policies of the US have left it more isolated than ever, and China is standing by to take over.

"Our power, then, has the grave liability of rendering our theories about the world immune from failure. But by becoming deaf to easily discerned warning signs, we may ignore long-term costs that result from our actions and dismiss reverses that should lead to a re-examination of our goals and means."

These are the words of Republican Representative Henry Hyde, chairman of the House International Relations Committee, in a recent speech.

http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/editorials/archives/2006/03/30/2003300026

[Peace Patriot]

1. American Revolution II starts now!

Some resources for American Revolution II:

Hopeful signs - latest news:

California voters sue the state over Diebold:
www.VoterAction.org--just announced--is suing the state of California and 18 Calif county registrars on behalf of 25 California voter/plaintiffs, on the illegal Diebold "certification" by Schwarzenegger appointee Bruce McPherson.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x2180496

Maryland rejects Diebold:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x418263

Florida - anti-trust accusations against Diebold, ES&S and Sequoia, re: heroic Florida election official Ion Sancho:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x2183630
http://www.tbo.com/news/politics/MGBKSY8W8LE.html

Utah county clerk fights back!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x419226

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More resources:

www.votersunite.org (MythBreakers - easy primer on electronic voting--one of the myths is that HAVA requires electronic voting; it does not.)
www.verfiedvoting.org (great activist site)
www.votetrustusa.org (news of this great movement from around the country)
www.UScountvotes.org (statistical monitoring of '06 and '08 elections)
www.solarbus.org/election/index.shtml (fab compendium of all election info)
www.freepress.org (devoted to election reform)
www.bradblog.com (also great, and devoted to election reform)
www.TruthIsAll.net (analysis of the 2004 election)* :patriot: :applause: :patriot:

Sign the petition (Russ Holt, HR 550, great bill-has 169 sponsors). http://www.rushholt.com/petition.html
www.votepa.us (well-organized local group of citizen activists in Pennsylvania, where important legal issues are at stake, including state's rights over election systems)

The Voter Confidence Resolution
http://tinyurl.com/rlnr2 (“We Do Not Consent”)
http://guvwurld.blogspot.com (GuvWurld blog main page)
http://tinyurl.com/amryg (Voter Confidence Resolution

www.debrabowen.com (Calif Senator running for Sec of State to reform election system)
www.johnbonifaz.com (running for Massachusetts Sec of State on strong election reform and antiwar platform)

*Some tributes to TruthIsAll, who is very ill:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x417007
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x417231
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x675477

Also of interest:

Bob Koehler (-- four recent election reform initiatives in Ohio, predicted to win by 60/40 votes, flipped over, on election day, into 60/40 LOSSES!--the biggest flipover we've seen yet; the election theft machines and their masters are now dictating election policy!)
www.tmsfeatures.com/tmsfeatures/subcategory.jsp?file=20051124ctnbk-a.txt&catid=1824&code=ctnbk

Bob Koehler's latest: "Take this box and stuff it" (3/16/06)
http://commonwonders.com/archives/col337.htm

Amaryllis (Diebold, ES&S, Sequoia lavish lobbying of election officials - Beverly Hilton, Aug. '05)
www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x380340

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Throw Diebold, ES&S and ALL election theft machines into 'Boston Harbor' NOW!

:think: :patriot: :woohoo: :patriot: :think:

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"That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it." --Thomas Jefferson, The Declaration of Independence

[originalpckelly]

2. Watch out

I think you'd better be very restrained. Are you calling for secession? That is against 18 USC § 2385. Advocating overthrow of Government

"Whoever knowingly or willfully advocates, abets, advises, or teaches the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying the government of the United States or the government of any State, Territory, District or Possession thereof, or the government of any political subdivision therein, by force or violence, or by the assassination of any officer of any such government; or
Whoever, with intent to cause the overthrow or destruction of any such government, prints, publishes, edits, issues, circulates, sells, distributes, or publicly displays any written or printed matter advocating, advising, or teaching the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying any government in the United States by force or violence, or attempts to do so; or
Whoever organizes or helps or attempts to organize any society, group, or assembly of persons who teach, advocate, or encourage the overthrow or destruction of any such government by force or violence; or becomes or is a member of, or affiliates with, any such society, group, or assembly of persons, knowing the purposes thereof—
Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction.
If two or more persons conspire to commit any offense named in this section, each shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction.
As used in this section, the terms “organizes” and “organize”, with respect to any society, group, or assembly of persons, include the recruiting of new members, the forming of new units, and the regrouping or expansion of existing clubs, classes, and other units of such society, group, or assembly of persons."


However, if you were advocating the dissolution of the Union by a Constitutional amendment, such actions and talk would be allowable because it is a Constitutional method of governmental change except for the "more perfect union" clause. This may actually happen one day as a peaceful solution to our internal problems. I mean it might be better and form a "more perfect union" if the union was dissolved in some sense. Ever since the Civil War our country has had two cultures: 1) the urban centers and 2) the rural states. This is why most of the country is red and the big states are blue. I mean when people can't agree on when life starts how can they live together in the same nation? I just hope if people advocate this kind of activity that it is done amicably and that no crazies incite violence.

[CrazyForKucinich]

3. Secession is not overthrowing...

the USA would exist...with one less state...most likely Vermont.

If State's can not seceed...well then this country is fucked.

[benburch]

4. If a legal governent were in power you would be right.

But this President was never elected.

[Ufomammut]

12. Exactly...

The question becomes: who all exactly was "in on it?" I think many people would be devestated.

[shadowknows69]

5. If it weren't for sports teams

we could just have one big state.

[Bluebear]

6. Where did the OP mention secession? What am I missing? nt

[originalpckelly]

7. I'm sorry

Not necessarily secession, but revolution. Slight difference. Same problem.

[benburch]

13. Be honest.

You've been itching to post that for days now.

[rman]

8. "That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends"

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. --That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government..."

Though some would have it the Declaration of Independence is irrelevant.

[Buns_of_Fire]

10. I see no violation of 18 USC, here

I do not advocate the overthrow or destruction of the government. I do, however, advocate the overthrow (and complete political destruction) of the people who have taken control of the government. Perhaps it's a small difference in these days of Emperor Chickenshit the Unitary I, but it's there.

[benburch]

14. Do not let him get to you.

He obviously does not have the same goals that the rest of us here do.

[Buns_of_Fire]

18. Thank you. Some days, it rolls off your back; some days it doesn't. (n/t)

[Bridget Burke]

17. "F" in reading comprehension.

However, we've all learned something about you today!

[mmonk]

19. What about when the federal government is no longer following

the Constitution. Does that apply?

[benburch]

21. Checks and balances is supposed to remedy that.

When it does not, we are supposed to have the ballot.

When that fails to be a real ballot, we have the Second Amendment...

[Peace Patriot]

22. Thomas Jefferson said it, not me--"...alter or abolish it."

But you are just muddling the issue here. You work for Diebold, or what? There is NOT ONE WORD about "secession" in my post, and NOT ONE WORD about "abolishing" the government, other than our Founding Father Thomas Jefferson's alternative to "altering" it--in the FRIGGING DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE, our founding document, which lays out the PRINCIPLES of democratic government.

How does advocating for TRANSPARENT elections turn into "secession" or "abolishing" the government? I'm talking about a reasonable, and rather mild, no-brainer REFORM thoughout the post, ending with a quote from Thomas Jefferson about "consent of the governed." I talk about nothing else.

Where are you getting this whacked out idea about "secession"? Is that what's on YOUR mind?

[izzie]

9. Well yar but one has to see that the rest of the world has come up

After all this is not 1945 with one country come out of world war free, rich and hardly a bomb falling. We also were so rich we could educate many at gov. cost on the GI bill. Never had a country done such a thing and to top it off we paid to rebuild a good part of the world. And since our country was intact we sold to every one. Now the rest of the world is up to us and we are not taking it well and not using our brains to stay near the top. The world is moving and we want to stay as we were, on top, with out the work it takes. Just look at health care in the world. Companies can cut cost because tax payer do the health care but we will not move into that. Even when it is better. China and India are building free colleges every place and we are making our elite. It is like we just need new thinkers and put the talk of being the 'greatest' behind.Also look at the free countries in the world. Maybe not like us but they vote for their gov.

[Joe Fields]

11. Didn't you get the memo?

America's decline began with Elvis! (lol)

[Bridget Burke]

16. The decline began when Elvis was drafted...

Then he returned to waste his time on endless inane movies. The talent was there, even to the end. But it was mostly obscured by a haze of drugs & overeating.

Damn Colonel Parker!

[Joe Fields]

20. And don't forget the Beatles! (lol)

[Deja Q]

15. Do those policies include offshoring? They should:

Free trade isn't trade at all when you hand your infrastructure to everybody else. That's suicidal.

And Bush can say how we won't use isolationist economic policies. Yet everything else he does seems very isolationist. It can't work both ways, though the monthly balance sheet won't notice - until after the month it's happened, of course...