This is all going to go down VERY BADLY for Russ Feingold

[Atman]

This hearing is going very poorly for Russ. From the switched starting time to the parade of Bush-friendly witnesses, the talking heads and Sunday talk shows will skewer Feingold and hold him up for ridicule. They even just joked about John Dean being "for the darkside," while the republican witness was "for sunshine."

This will turn out to be Russ's worst nightmare, I fear, and will likely be the death-knell for his presidential ambitions.

But I could be wrong.

[saltpoint]

1. I think Senator Feingold's supporters were strong for him prior to

this hearing and will be the same or stronger after it.

If the Iowa caucuses are still first, I believe he will finish strongly there, possibly embarrassing the Clinton camp.

Here is a principled public servant doing his job and doing it well with an earnest heart.

Tough to find fault with that.

[midnight]

13. I'm with you Old Crusoe.

I don't have access to the hearings. I can't imagine that this was going to be easy. This will take more and more hits. Like a HUGE log battering down a HUGE wall. This is just another example of all the players acting like nothing unusual has gone on. Blah, Blah, Blah.

[pauliedangerously]

45. I agree too

The important thing is that these ideas are finally getting out to the gen-pop. The Republicans may win a battle or two, but the momentum is on the side of what's been suppressed for the last three years.

[lonestarnot]

48. Totally agree! Feingold is a principled public servant! You

can't get better than that!

[Warren Stupidity]

2. Russ just needs to keep speaking the truth.

Our Pravda Pundits are wearing thin. Their bullshit isn't working well anymore. The more they lie and distort the more foolish they look.

[NYCGirl]

3. Who is the "they" who joked? NT

[Atman]

16. I think it was Specter, after the democratic witness spoke AGAINST censure

Feingold tried to correct him, because it was a total misrepresentation of what Dean said.

[NYCGirl]

33. Well, then, who the fuck CARES what "they" say? I don't. NT

[Atman]

46. You don't have to. The Media will pick it up as THE sound bite

that America will hear. America will get the officially sanctioned version of this hearing, seeing Specter say bullshit like "You represent the dark side." All the fun stuff to belittle the purpose of the hearings. We lose site of that sometime. Sure, stand by our man, he's doing great, this isn't about him it's about the message, they're all wonderful sentiments.

And at the end of the day, the republican media will once again edit out the choice bits to hold up the American people to demonstrate how those feckless democrats can't even get support from their own party.

[stray cat]

4. Extremely badly for congress as a separate but equal branch

If congress will not defend their constitutional mandate and want to abdicate to a King. The congress and senate are just a waste of tax payers money.

[Greyhound]

5. Hope you're wrong, afraid you're right.

We'll be chalking up another victory for The Corporate Party. I'm so depressed. :(

[BlueStater]

6. Wrong

No one likes that piece of crap in the Oval Office. The majority of the country is on Feingold's side.

[Sugarcoated]

10. Russ is the only Dem doing what's right

it's the spineless cowards who will pay politically.

[brooklynite]

39. No, they're not and thats part of the problem...

I'm not sure how many people here actually lived through Watergate, but I did. It took nearly two years from the time the crimes were revealed to the time the impeachment resolutions were introduced, and that occurred AFTER extensive congressional hearings, newspaper exposes, blatant coverup attempts by the Administration, etc., by which point the public was strongly in favor of removing Nixon from office. One poll showing a 2-point margin (under 50%) in support of censure is not an indication of support. There is, in my opinion, a great lack of clarity in most people's minds (don't think about people here, or even their friends and acquaintances; think about people out in "real" America who don't pay much attention to politics at all) and a feeling that this isn't the most important thing in their minds. To START the process with the censure resolution was tactically the wrong way to proceed.

[Nickster]

7. Oh cmon. The talking head bastards will skewer Dems for not standing up

they will skewer them when they do stand up. It's a rigged game. If voters attack Russ for standing up, well screw 'em. I'd rather stand behind someone like Russ. We need this debate in the public's ear, we need to make the Pukes do their darndest to cover up and justify all of the crap going on. If Russ doesn't do it, who the heck is going to?

[KoKo]

30. I wonder if many Americans aren't losing faith in the Talking Head

Chirpers. Bush's poll numbers going down kind of shows they don't have the power they once did.

Feingold standing up was good. And, it showed the Repugs ganging up...which is their own Dark/Ugly side.

Also for some of us...the lack of Dem support was something to note for the future.

[Uncle Joe]

70. I believe you are on to something KoKo,

the corporate owned punditry have hocked their integrity over the past 14 years with the witch hunt against Clinton, the War Against Gore, the enabling of putting a corrupt/incompetent in to power with no hard questions, the cheer leading of the Iraq War again with no hard questions, the outing of our own CIA agent and her covert company, the parroting of Bushit propaganda. I believe they have reached their high water mark, and they do not have enough money to get their integrity with the American People out of the pawn shop. With their betrayals and lies to the American People, I believe their opinions will have a have a diminishing influence over time and I wish it GodSpeed.

[blm]

8. The media is brutal against ANY Dem who sticks their neck out.

What amazes me is that so many expect any Dem can get past the obstacle that is the media. The corporate media is CLEARLY under the control of the GOP allies of BushInc, and has been since the mid90s.

[Sugarcoated]

12. I think Feingold breaks throught that obstacle

because he's right and he will stand up and clearly and strongly say so. I hope he gets out there to the media.

[blm]

31. A number of Dems have been clear and strong and STILL get attacked

and then marginalized and then ignored. Feingold is the latest to go through this process, and he's at phase 1 now. This is why I don't believe in abandoning any Dem leader just because media has.

It's the MEDIA that ends up twisting their images to the general public. It's the CASUAL viewer who ends up believing the spin. Even some DUers believe mediaspin over the facts presented to them.

[WI_DEM]

9. I think your wrong

and I'm not necessarily supporting Russ. But here in WI many people support what he is trying to do, and it's not the goofballs on the Sunday talk shows who form the opinions of the progressive wing of the party which will be Russ's main supporters in '08. His attempt to censure this president, along with his work at attempting to appeal the Patriot Act will actually fuel his support among party faithful.

[HereSince1628]

14. The progressive in Wisconsin are not enough to move him

into the nomination. This is a very clear signal that the DCDems are going to work against Russ.

Obama, has a better chance being on a national ticket.

[WI_DEM]

28. I didn't say only Wisconsinites support him, but

progressives nationally look on him favorably and that will benefit him in 2008.

[HereSince1628]

41. There isn't a functional progressive caucus. Much as I regret that

it's true. And because of that the "progressives" are years away from the inside machinery which is still dominated by the DLC and anti-confrontation types who'll never make a stand.

It's pretty clear from days like today that the progressive nature of the grassroots is completely taken for granted by the DCDems.

[Clark2008]

32. And what's sad is that Feingold has a better shot to beat

a Republican than Obama.

For all the improvements in race relations that have been attempted, Obama on the ticket will not play well in Peoria.

*groan*

[hippiechick]

11. The starting time was not switched.

It was announced as 9:30 earlier this week.
C-SPAN punked us by not picking it up until 10:00.


IMO this is going down horribly for the Dems in general, although Russ's going to be scarred from it too.

[midnight]

18. What is going on?

What would make Feingold scarred?

[hippiechick]

20. scarred, not scared.

... he's going to look bad for having a personal agenda of "trying to get the wartime president who is trying to spread democracy" ... the RW is salivating to skewer him as
a terra-lover who hates America and our freedoms :puke: and there are no Dems with balls enough to stand with him.

[Atman]

29. Bingo

And remember, the right wing media is the only place 90% of Americans get their "news." Feingold will be ridiculed as Bush-hater with his own presidential ambitions, and discussion of what this hearing was all about will not happen.

[KharmaTrain]

15. The Corporate Media Lays In Waiting

Unless we get a major Abramoff confession or Rove is frog-marched out of the White House or some big bombshell, the corporate media has already set in motion their memes of Democrats being both indisicive and "mean". Senator Feingold has the right idea and has energized many on our side...not a bad thing. Now the corporate media is set to eat him up as punishment for him speaking out against the boyking and his handlers.

Thanks to the Repugnicans controlling the agenda, they can manuever these "hearings" into being real charades (as if we haven't seen enough already) and Arlen's proven time and time again he's a master in toing the party line. He gets to keep his nice title and fancy office and all those perks and all he has to do is play toadie for his masters...and he's good at playing the stonewall.

I've been seeing the worm turn on this story over the past week...as the meme of censure being akin to impeachment akin to all the evil days of Clinton is being smeared around by the RNC to rile up the base. The corporate media is sure to comply this weekend putting it to Feingold for doing the right thing...but then we live in sureal times.

No matter what, I appreciate what Senator Feingold has done and I suspect he'll be back with this resolution and more in the future. This is truly a man who doesn't waive to the "Conventional wisdom"...a man whose principles I've always admired.

[TayTay]

17. That is premature

Let this play out. And the sunshine guy was also one of the good Senator's witnesses. Let this play out, it is not bad for Sen. Feingold at all.

[flpoljunkie]

19. Going down badly for the Dems who did not bother to show up and for

the R's who bent over backwards to justify Bush's illegal wiretapping American citizens. The Republicans have no integrity.

Russ Feingold will come out just fine.

[goclark]

49. I called Biden's office

and they said he was in New York.

I told them that he sure gets there for all the other hearings, why not this IMPORTANT one.

The young man was very nice and polite.

I reminded him that I was a liberal Democrat that wanted to keep an open mind about Biden for President.

But in my mind," NO Closure vote, NO Biden."


He said he understood (I believe he felt the same way that I did).

[jane_pippin]

58. Yes. That's how I see it too. n/t

[EFerrari]

21. Not at our house. I barely noticed him before he did this

and he has two votes and two volunteers here.

[Innocent Smith]

22. Are you surprised?

It was obvious from day one that they were going to leave Russ high and dry.

I don't understand why so many people here think that this same group of Senators is going to have anything to do with impeachment/conviction/removal-from-office for Bush when they won't even show up for a simple committee meeting about censure.

[Ganja Ninja]

23. Even if it doesn't happen in the long run Russ will look good.

There's 3 long years of Bush left. How manny more screw ups is he going to make? How much worse will things be by the end of this hurricane season? How will people feel about his bombing of Iran? What else will go wrong in Iraq?

Russ Feingold tried to do the right thing for the right reasons. If he's damned for that then this country will get what it deserves.

[kentuck]

24. I think this will show that Feingold is one of a very few Senators...

with a backbone to stand up for our Constitution and he and they will be considered profiles in courage.

[Joe Fields]

25. Don't panic yet. He may turn out to be hero , before it's done.

He is already a hero to many here.

[TahitiNut]

26. Russ Feingold is not the issue. The Unlawful Spying on Americans is.

Feingold = messenger. Unlawful Spying on Americans = message.

Isn't it amazing that so many just can't seem to keep this simple fact straight? We have a media and a political 'leadership' that persistently conflates messenger with message ... from the 'celebretization' of news talkers to the vomitous pundits to the back fences of the country.

When will we PLEASE get Critical Thinking courses required in 6th, 8th, 10th, and 12th grades?

[Olney Blue]

34. Excellent point, Tahiti.

[Atman]

40. Thank you for that colorful condecending post!

I'm not sure who you're bitch-slapping, anyway..."We have a media and a political 'leadership' that persistently conflates messenger with message." So that's not us, right? Or is it, when you say "Isn't it amazing that so many just can't seem to keep this simple fact straight?" What simple fact am I not keeping straight? I didn't say Russ isn't doing a great, courageous thing. I'm simply stating that the impression watching this live is that the republican panel is being rude, arrogant and dismissive. Surprise! But there is no one there on the democratic side to back up the democrats.

What do you think will play on the news? Republicans saying heroic things about Bush, and how democrats have a vendetta, and lots of comments on how not even Russ's friends showed up to support him.

Feingold's message is perfect. Great. Whoop-de-do, if the republican controlled media is just going to set it up as failed attempt by a politician with an agenda.

[Olney Blue]

27. Senator Feingold will be vindicated by history.

More and more Americans will come to understand the "monarchy" concept, as they see their right to privacy fade away. I am reminded of Gore's speech on MLK day- that there is a dangerous shift in the distribution of power of the three branches of government.

Gore/Feingold 2008- Fearless Democrats that speak the truth.

[calmblueocean]

37. Yes. We have to do the right thing, and not play politics with the truth.

At least history will show that some part of America fought back against the destruction of the Constitution.

[KoKo]

35. Feingold and Fein are doing a great job in the hearing right now....

Some of the good stuff will get out ....and get around. Feingold is determined and thorough... It only takes a few good souls to turn things around eventually...as long as they have "activists" holding their back.

[ladjf]

36. I think everyone knew in advance what was going to happen.

This won't hurt Feingold but it will hurt the other Dems that didn't show up.

[Beelzebud]

38. It might have gone better had his party not thrown him under the bus..

Today I'm Independant. I've had enough of these weak, spineless bastards that do not think it's worth it to FIGHT.

[w8liftinglady]

63. no shit.

The democrats have this year's elections handed to them,if they will just speak out,and in unison.Americans SUPPORT THIS! cowardly partisan hacks.

[AnnInLa]

42. This is NOT about Russ Feingold

This is about a balance of power between the 3 branches of government.

When bushco came into power, cheney had a bug up his ass about "the declining power of the president/executive branch." Since the Vietnam days, he has been convinced that the exec powers have been usurped by Congress and the courts. One of the main goals of bushco has been to expand the powers of the pres/exec so that the exec branch is MORE POWERFUL than the other two branches. Bushco holds that the FISA law, enacted by Congress in the '70s, is unconstitutional because it overrides the powers of the pres....the warantless spying program is a direct attempt to, in their eyes, reclaim these powers.

Any attempt by Feingold, or anyone else, to put this issue before the public to let the public see the grab for increasing presidential power, at the expense of the other 2 branches is good for this country.

And, believe me, the country is talking about this.

Feingold is a true patriot for bringing this issue to the forefront, even knowing that he personally might be damaged.

I refuse to be dispirited about the lack of Dem congresscritters' support, or the negative posts here on DU. The public debate on this issue is tremendous for our country, and trememdous for "our side."

[Atman]

43. Can't argue with any of that!

Well stated.

[HereSince1628]

44. The hearing is 'supposed' to be about censure. The lesson of

today is actually about the DCDems' rejection of Russ and his independence from the DCDems' Insiders' Club.

[stevietheman]

47. I'm sure Feingold realized that this meeting would be a...

shower of GOP bullshit. I somehow believe that's exactly what Feingold wanted.

Sometimes bluster backfires. And most people today see right through what the GOP is doing--this hearing could be the thing that really destroys the GOP in November.

[Dawgs]

50. Here's why you're right.

It's not because of these hearings, it's because the Republicans have a new Democrat to attack.

Think about it. When are the Republicans most effective? It's when they have a Clinton, Kerry, Michael Moore, or Dean to bash. They can take the focus off of their own problems if they have a Democrat to attack.

[bklyncowgirl]

52. So then, by your measure, no Democrat should ever speak out.

I don't think that that's where you're going but the alternative is for leading Democrats to become Grover Norquist's neutered farm animals.

Admittedly all too many of them have become just that.

And by the way, we all know what happens to calm, fat, steers, don't we.

[hippiechick]

53. I think the point is to get more than THREE FRIGGIN DEMS to show up

:shrug:

[LSK]

51. i'd rather have Feingold under attack,he gets more air time

And he will FIGHT BACK.

[spuddonna]

54. I disagree...

My brother, who rarely follows politics, was very excited to hear about Feingold's attempt to censure *. My parents follow politics a bit more closely, but had never heard of Feingold before this. All of them have said to me "I hope he runs for President. I hope he doesn't give up."

And I think there are many people that feel the same way.

But I could be wrong too! :7 Peace!

[radio4progressives]

55. So Refreshing to See how Important Domestic Spying Means to Americans

Presidential Uber Authority to Spy on Americans without a warrant, in direct violation of the 4th Amdenment (Bill of Rights) - reviving the "Enemies List" - which by the way has nothing at all to do with "terra-ists" - it means POLITICAL ENEMIES chiefly the Democratic Party and all of it's chief staffers and operatives as well as elected officials.

That's cool... we don't need no stinkin Constitution, we don't need no Bill of Rights, hell, we don't need to hold elections!

We've got King George and his heir apparants to follow!

Ain't it swell?

[radio4progressives]

56. Democrats should do what they've been doing for the past several years..

nothing.

run for cover... and keep quiet! sssshhhh!..

[Atman]

61. Haven't you seen the new democratic party logo?

[Kerri_S]

57. Senator Feingold has been doing an outstanding job

in the last couple of months. I just don't get this! Don't our elected officials care about the Consitituion and division of power at all anymore? Especially our DEM elected officials??

Hmmmm....It appears not.

Why the lack of support for censure? This should be a no-brainer. Even I can figure it out. President Bush broke the law about the wiretapping, and he should be held accountable for it in *some* manner.

But yet again, he gets a pass!!

I really don't recognize much about this county or our supposed system of government anymore.

This is a sad day for the democratic process.

[SeattleRob]

64. It's frustrating - but this is still early in the game

Feingold is there practically by himself. He does have one important ally - the Truth. No matter how much the Democratic Establishment runs away, no matter how the Republicans and their servants in the media try to spin it, there is the undeniable fact that * broke the law. Feingold's stature will only grow from this event. The populace is starting to wake up from a long slumber and that scares the hell out of people who are currently running the show.

[moondust]

59. Russ just gave an opening statement

that put his opponents to shame suggesting: "If he'll ignore FISA, he'll simply ignore all this other legislation that Sen. Specter and others are proposing to deal with the problem." "What we have here is a monarchy."

It was great.

[seabeyond]

60. but none of that matter atman, just so long as our dems censure

call for impeachment, whatever. that is all we want and not much else matters. we know htis to be true. regardless of the evidence that dems are unmercifully attacked to ridicule over EVERYTHING we insist they not take that into consideration, not consider how htis will effect the future, that we want it all ignored and WE want them to do these things, in essence, fuck you feingold the repercussions, do it cause we want to. fuck if it is smart, do it cause we want. or else

we will label you are useless, rollover, do nothing, spineless, yada yada yada

[Atman]

62. I'm sorry, I really didn't get the gist of your post

Seriously.

I THINK you are trying to say that we simply shouldn't care about the repercussions, we should simply stand up for what is right, otherwise we will label the do-nothing dems as useless and spineless.

Am I close?

[seabeyond]

67. the thing, today the media and repugs and american citizens

are in such a place, it makes it a real challenge for the dems. things we would like done. things that in the past could be done. things we would call our politicians on in the past, just are not effective today with bushco.

so often i hear thread after thread beating up the dem. yet..... i see dems do something, and always i then see the ridicule, the attack on them and turning it from the repugs doing bad to dems doing bad. a phenomenon like i have never seen

yet still people on this board totally ignore this and get pissed with dems for not doing more. yet look, feingold goes out on the edge and look at the ridicule and attack he receives

it just seems to me as dems, and supporters of our elected officials we would understand this, and cut our dems a little slack. this being an example of exactly why it is so hard for the dems

like stewart said when interviewing feingold, he showed a clip of boehner stating feingold was more concerned with safety and security of terrorist. stewart says, how hard that you have to be attacked as friend of terrorist if you call bush on anything

i am tired of this board attacking the dems, and nt the repugs, with little understanding, or remembering when something like this happens, and why it is so tough for dems

[Atman]

68. It sounds like you misconstrued my comments

I think Feingold did a very brave thing, made a very bold move. I don't think, in this case, it is the dems here on DU ridiculing Russ at all. It is his own party, his colleagues in the Senate who don't show up to support him. And then, the treatment he will get in the media because of it.

I think Feingold is a hero, make no mistake about it. But I hoping he doesn't simply become a martyr. We need brave Americans willing to stand up the modern-day Nazi party.

[seabeyond]

69. i like feingold. i like each and everyone that stands up

i think they probably, on purpose, only had so many stand up with this. i have seen the dems do this over the last couple years. they are working together. they just take one of the so many issues. this is feingolds. murtha had his. kerry has his. kennedy has his

yes i admire feingold. i admire so many of our dem reps. i just do not think that we give the dems the apporpriate credit. nor do we take into account just the power and attack the media has on the dems, and how that really does effect the perspective of the american people towards the dems

example.... coke did a commercial for a new product. vault. they had a robot shooting animals and conclude with robot going after hippies

oh funny funny

this commercial feeds the bad for dems. subtle. coke says so over the top not to be taken seriously. but still, it effects the dem party. they would NEVER do this with a repug, or fundie, but feel totally fine doing it with a hippie

really atman, i wasnt really talking about you position necessarily

i like and support feingold too. and i think it is important dems continue to do this knowing they will be attacked and ridicule. i think it is sinking in on a lot of americans. just hard for the dems

[LSK]

65. did you just hear the CSPAN callers??? Feingold hit a home run on this!!!!

FUCK YEAH!!!

[flyarm]

66. oh i believe the contrary...

Russ Feingold is my hero...and the rest are yellow bellied cowards..i am ashamed today to call myself a dem..and american..when rethugs can all show up to support breaking the laws of our land and dems could not even show up to stand for the laws of our land shows the cowardice of the dems involved with the no show!

i concider Feingold as the lone ranger in standing for my constitutional rights..and those of my family...

not one dem will get my money from this point forward except Feingold, Conyers, Mc Kinney and a few others who have spine, guts and integrity!

fly