Official Censure Hearing Thread # 11- Judiciary Committee

[liveoaktx]

Link back to 10

[stop the bleeding]

1. I'm exploding right now - F**k this n/t

[blogslut]

2. graham confuses me

turner...you go too far

[LSK]

3. graham is on drugs

Terra terra terra

[liveoaktx]

4. Graham trying to compare CIC power about strategy with Congress

having to approve targets. But we're not all under CIC, ass, only the military

[blogslut]

7. neither is the military

...these days :(

[Canuckistanian]

12. That should be obvious

Posse comitatus and all that...

[EVDebs]

18. CIS is what ? n/t

[liveoaktx]

26. CIC-Commander in Chief-Bush is not MY CIC, I'm not in the military

In other words, there are a LOT of Americans who, when Bush says, I'm the CIC, say, so, your statements and power as CIC do NOT apply to me.

[EVDebs]

32. Then you're the ENEMY if Bush isn't your CIC. This is what is coming out

and why the Huston Plan has been revived.

[in_cog_ni_to]

57. BUT, he has never been ELECTED. He's NO ONE'S CIC.

I've NEVER called him "president" and he isn't my CIC either. He's illegitimate.

[LSK]

35. Graham is spinning spinning spinning

[Sydnie]

5. It's not the same unless it's the same Vietnam = Iraq

do you REALLY want to go there Graham?

[wiggs]

6. Repost: An underlying pattern to dem strategy?

Seems to me that dem leaders take turns handling major issues. It might be Conyers taking on election reform, then Boxer taking on delegate challenges, then Kennedy for something else, then Byrd. Waxman = WMD. Someone different on DSM. Clinton was body armor (and steroids for some reason). Conyers did NSA spying for a time. Feingold is doing censure.

You don't see them take the risk all together; there's always one who gets out the message and the others stay in the background. While I definitely don't like the approach, I'm trying to understand if there's a method to the madness. With more research and checking the pattern might be more clear, but on the surface this does seem to be a trend. If a strategy, is it more effective than banding together in support of opposition and to help frame issues?

I don't know (won't know till nov 2006), but I do look at the GOP and see that they've gone 180 the other way and that has worked pretty damn well from a PR standpoint.

So...is Feingold actually doing this WITH the blessing of Reid? Is it his job to raise the topic but allow other dems to take more moderate positions?

[flyarm]

21. bull these yellow bellies that didn't show up have their phone people

preprogramed for the onslaught of calls..this is a disgrace..and they have hung fiengold out to dry..

i am resigning as a dem monday and reregistering as an independant..i never ever thought i would feel this way in my life..i have worked for the democrats my entire life..this is one time that they were needed to work for my constitution and they failed not only did they fail..they did it deliberately!

fly

[liveoaktx]

44. I'm staying Dem but I will help anyone who is a Yellow Dog who

runs against any of these cowards.

[kaye45]

8. this is all about profiling themselves

Feingold is a profile in courage, his moral clarity stands out like a beacon next to pigmys like Hatch, Graham, et al.

[liveoaktx]

9. Amazing-Graham is talking about detaining prisoners-heck, he ALTERED

the congressional record for the Hamdan hearing the other day to make it look like there was a live debate on the floor.

[Coexist]

What? Really - I missed that.

[liveoaktx]

15. Graham- FISA different because of peacetime versus wartime

Fein smacks back with the "cold war" argument

[Norquist Nemesis]

17. Except War has not been declared.

I guess he missed that point.

[BootinUp]

22. Graham only was saying it may be different (we don't know yet)

Its a three ring circus argument.

[Thorandmjolnir]

24. Besides, FISA clearly states that

it appleis to both war and peace time. That was what Feinn tried to say, but was interupted every time.

FISA is clear, it is the ONLY way to conduct wiretapping involving an american citizen, in War or Peace.

[rodeodance]

25. yes, Fein shot back with a good one.

[Coexist]

10. Graham is not as smart as he thinks he is -

this is kind of funny.

[dogday]

11. Why do they equate this War on Terra

to other wars... They only lasted so long, this war on terra could go on forever, so does the President get thes powers indefinetly.....

[in_cog_ni_to]

33. That's their plan, yes. KING GEORGE. n/t

[fooj]

13. THE PRESIDENT BROKE THE LAW!

This is a fucking circus.

[rodeodance]

20. and very few care. They are concerned with 'saving face"

[EVDebs]

14. Lindsey Graham wants to implement martial law, The Huston Plan

Huston Plan

In June of 1970, during the wave of domestic protest centered around the war in Vietnam, President Nixon approved a set of recommendations known as the Huston Plan. This plan called for various agencies of government, including the CIA, FBI, and military intelligence agencies, to conduct wide-ranging intelligence-gathering activities targeted toward dissident groups and individuals. Most of these activities violated basic civil liberties. The President revoked the plan 5 days later, though some of its recommendations continued to be carried out. Volume 2 consists of hearings followed by a lengthy set of document exhibits. Witnesses included Tom Charles Huston, the author of the plan, former CIA counterintelligence head James Angleton, and former Assistant Director of the FBI Charles Brennan.

http://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/church/reports/vol2/contents.htm

..."and now we're in war"--Lindsey Graham

[in_cog_ni_to]

23. One MINOR detail...CONGRESS HAS NEVER DECLARED WAR!

Did Lindsey forget that? Rat Bastard.

[EVDebs]

38. That's the charade. Congress's AUMFs give Bush 'as he determines'

abilities. That includes these domestic spying issues, with military involvement and NSA. Get it, Thousands being spied upon.

[fooj]

47. I swear...I despise that SOB!

I'm sending the worthless puke a letter.

[rodeodance]

16. time of war, time of wr, time of war.

[Norquist Nemesis]

19. Hope someone starts to call it "The UNdeclared War" n/t

[EVDebs]

28. You got it ! Read the WarPowersActOf1973 and the AUMFs

and you find that the fictitious WMDs etc are not the clear situations and circumstances needed to authorize use of military force, just pretexts. Now that we're 'at war' (undeclared, I must add), the Grahamists are drumbeating.

Time for truth. Feingold hammers it. Ask if war has been declared...

[Atman]

27. One of the first thing the Nazi's did was make Hitler's crimes LEGAL

That is what we're going to witness here. Our own Nazi Party, the republicans, will pass a law retroactively making Bushler's crimes legal, instead of forcing him to answer for those crimes.

[Sydnie]

30. I fear you are correct n/t

[Mnemosyne]

31. On the nose Atman. n/t

[coffeenap]

36. And this should be our message to our Senators when we get

through to their offices. They must wake up now!

[dogday]

29. Sen Reid and Sen Feingold's phone numbers

SEN REID

Carson City
600 East Williams Street, #302
Carson City, NV 89701
Phone: [phone] / Fax: [phone]
Link to Yahoo Maps

Las Vegas
Lloyd D. George Building
333 Las Vegas Boulevard South, Suite 8016
Las Vegas, NV 89101
Phone: [phone] / Fax: [phone]
Link to Yahoo Maps

Reno
Bruce R. Thompson Courthouse and Federal Building
400 South Virginia Street, Suite 902
Reno, NV 89501
Phone: [phone] / Fax: [phone]
Link to Yahoo Maps

Rural Nevada Outreach Contact
Susan Lisagor
Phone: [phone] / Fax: [phone]

Washington
528 Hart Senate Office Building
Washington, DC 20510
Phone: [phone] / Fax: [phone]
Toll Free for Nevadans: 1-866-SEN-REID (736-7343) -Restricted to calls originating from area codes 775 and 702-
Link to Yahoo Maps

Reid Newsroom
[phone]

Senate Democratic Communications Center Newsroom
[phone]


SEN FEINGOLD

Middleton
1600 Aspen Commons
Middleton, WI 53562-4716
[phone]
TDD [phone]
Fax [phone]


Milwaukee
517 East Wisconsin Ave., Room 408
Milwaukee, WI 53202-4504
[phone]
Fax [phone]

La Crosse
425 State St., Room 225
La Crosse, WI 54601-3341
[phone] Wausau
Firstar Plaza
401 5th St., Room 410
Wausau, WI 54403
[phone]

Green Bay
1640 Main Street
Green Bay, WI 54302-2639
[phone]

Washington, DC
506 Hart Senate Office Building
Washington, DC 20510-4904
[phone]
TDD [phone]
Fax [phone]

[Norquist Nemesis]

37. THANK YOU! EVERYONE CALL REID: 202-224-3542!!!

Sorry for shouting...

[fooj]

58. I'm on hold.

Peace.

[Reader Rabbit]

39. I called Feingold's office earlier

I was hoping to give myself a positive experience by phoning in my thanks and support. The poor kid answering the phone lines was obviously overwhelmed, but she also didn't sound too optimistic or enthusiastic to me.

*sigh*

:-(

[jsamuel]

34. Is it just me or does Specter constantly go back and forth between

"We don't know enough to condemn the Pres." to "We know enough to legislate to help resolve the debate."

We know, we don't, we know, we don't

[LSK]

40. well he has shown to be on both sides of the issue

He really doesnt like it, but he has to be a good Republicans for some reason.

[EVDebs]

45. We don't know AND time of war : repeat endlessly if you're an R today

The Huston Plan, martial law, and pretext for setting this up domestically (with subsequent abuse) are predictable once the War Powers Act of 1973 was allowed to be violated and no war declaration given. Congress abdicates its powers to Bush.

[melissinha]

83. He's really strengthening Fein's argument

that secrecy regarding the issue is making it difficult to truly have an honest assessment of this program.

[underpants]

41. ACCK! preppie comb over

[liveoaktx]

42. FEIN-Pres given 15 day window to save nature from exceptional danger

originally Pres was given one year... then come to Congress.

[blogslut]

43. Russ!

sigh

[Thorandmjolnir]

92. Graham is such a lizard

Sneaky little snake.

He is stretching Hamdi beyond its legal holding. While Hamdi said that the President can detain enemy combatants, and that the AMF authorized that, the court ALSO said, that said enemy combatant can challenge his detention in court.

So, he is conveniently leaving out the rational for the case.

[Canuckistanian]

46. "living constitution", LOL

[Beaverhausen]

48. Is this online at c-span? if so which one?

thanks!

[LSK]

50. cspan1

[Norquist Nemesis]

51. cspan 1 N/T

[Beaverhausen]

53. whoa! you guys are fast! Thanks!

[liveoaktx]

52. One

[Sydnie]

56. C-SPAN 1 on my tv, probably the same on line nt

[liveoaktx]

49. Fein: you ordinarily make your strongest arguments first

administration has not made the inherent argument first (ARticle 2)

[liveoaktx]

55. Fein-Administration could have a judicial review NOW

[Coexist]

54. Fein just kicked some ass.

Seriously.

[liveoaktx]

59. Bringing up Glenn Greewald-GO GLENN

http://glenngreenwald.blogspot.com/2006/03/does-white-house-nsa-defense-come-from.html

[ralps]

70. Thanks for the link liveoaktx

[Norquist Nemesis]

60. Can't wait to watch this again

and catch all of the good stuff...mute the rest. :)

[LeftNYC]

61. Props to Greenwald...

Nice Glen..

[flyarm]

75. here is greenwalds piece...

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2006/03/31.html#a7735

NSA Hearings: John Dean

by Glenn Greenwald

[ralps]

62. Feingold just mentioned Glenn Greenwald's blog in relation to John

Mitchell.

[Coexist]

64. Nice.

[BlueStater]

63. Feingold just quoted St. Ronnie

Oooooooohhhhhhhh! Now what, Pubs?

[Gregorian]

65. John Dean is a gem!

We faught warrantless wiretapping in the Revolution.

[Coexist]

71. Graham just can't accept the fact that his "brilliant" Watergate analogy

isn't going to work. How sad.

[Debi]

66. King George III!

I love Russ Feingold!

[LSK]

67. graham is back to spinning

[LSK]

69. why the fuck would censure kill FISA??

FUCK YOU ASSHOLE!

[bmcatt]

76. He didn't say that...

He said censure would kill "this program". I guess he's in on the secret that "the program" is fundamentally illegal and unconstitutional.

[radio4progressives]

79. pure fucking spin

like i argued all week, this was going to be a dog and pony show and smoke and mirrors operation - Feingold called it a Cover Up... and he's absolutely correct.

[speedoo]

81. Graham is such a smug asshole.

Trying yet another tack. He can't get anything right.

[The Witch]

68. I am back from doing some real work

for now. I feel very sick.

[liveoaktx]

72. >>>>>> THREAD Number 12 Started>>>>>>>> LINK

Twelve

[Debi]

73. Lindsay is a sissy.

:cry:

You'll kill FISA!!! :cry:

[RepublicanElephant]

74. how 'bout asking for a drug test? n/t

.

[Sydnie]

77. Graham speechifying now

Hidesight is 20/20 especially when you can twist it to support what you need to support now, huh Graham?

[MadisonProgressive]

78. OK, I'm almost afraid to ask

I've been working hard today - can someone give me a short synopsis about why everyone's so pissed today?

Thanks!

[jsamuel]

88. Graham basically saying he thinks FISA is right, but acting as if he says

it needs to be changed... he is playing both sides.

[BlueStater]

89. The Democrats completely abandoned Feingold

It's basically Feingold alone versus a bunch of lying, traitorous scum who are perfectly happy with letting Bush piss all over our Constitution.

If they lose in November, they have no one to blame but themselves.

[fooj]

80. Got through to Reid's office...they are being HAMMERED with calls.

He said he understands my frustration and he would pass along my message. Very polite guy. I was PISSED!!!!!!!!

[goclark]

90. I just called and left a message in their mailbox

I asked them to tell Democrats to locate their spine and put it in front of them instead of behind them on this issue.

[Norquist Nemesis]

93. GOOD!!! Hope it goes on for a week!!! n/t

[Seedersandleechers]

82. Part of a e-mail I got from Ted Kennedy...

He got a real nasty reply


The Republican leadership still defends the President's illegal wiretapping program. But now -- thanks to your efforts -- Democrats have forced them at least to hold a serious Senate hearing on this issue this week. It is our obligation in Congress to protect our country, and that includes protecting our Constitution.

The Republican leadership hypocritically continues to support pay raises for members of Congress, but it refuses to raise the minimum wage which has remained stuck at the unacceptably low level of $5.15 an hour for the past nine years.

Now is the time for us to speak out ever more strongly. The American people are listening. They are fed up with a White House that refuses to realistically confront issues relating to the war in Iraq, health care for all Americans, the soaring cost of college, global warming, and countless other major concerns of our people.

We can change all that in November. Let's seize the opportunity now, and keep building momentum now, so that we can win the elections in November and end the nightmare of this rubber-stamp Republican Congress. With a Democratic majority in Congress, you'll see the change right away on issue after issue. A new day will dawn in Congress, and it can't come too soon. I intend to do all I can to be part of it, and I thank you for joining me.

Yours for a Democratic majority in November '06!



Senator Edward M. Kennedy

P.S. Thank you so much for your continuing support. Tomorrow, March 31, will be the last opportunity for any potential opponents to gauge our fundraising before deciding whether to run against me in my Senate race. Show them our strength with your contribution, and be sure our country starts moving forward again:

http://www.tedkennedy.com/contribute

[flyarm]

91. here is email contact for kennedy!! let him have iT!!

http://tedkennedy.com/page/s/contact

KENNEDY CONTACT EMAIL ADDRESS

[EVDebs]

84. Lindsey Graham voted to give Bush 'as he determines'... authority

during 'wartime' as he puts it, even domestically. "Congress needs to be involved here.."--Graham

Duh ?!

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/10/20021002-2.html

Martial law in the US is what Graham is trying to legitimize.

[Norquist Nemesis]

85. Just realized...R's not in attendance

aren't they running for re-election?

[wtmusic]

86. Let's waste unbelievable amounts of tax money debating

whether laws should be obeyed. These people are amazing.

[suffragette]

87. Does Graham think that by saying the word "honest" repeatedly,

it will magically turn his dishonest spin into something resembling honesty or truth?

[Skinner]

94. Locking

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x805008