When did Unions become so demonized?

[Orrex]

Any time a discussion of Unions comes up in my workplace, the consensus is invariably that they're inherently corrupt mechanisms for funneling money into organized crime. We're not talking about forming a Union, but rather discussing the basic nature of Unions.

Everyone has a tale about Unions paid to repaint an office every six weeks or to carry floor tile to the sixth floor only to carry it down again the next day, but I can't believe that there are any more than anecdotes.

Do my coworkers not recognize that the 40-hour work week, minimum wage, employee healthcare, and workplace safety programs are the direct result of Union efforts over the years? They seem to think that, since they're not in a Union, Unions are unnecessary at best and openly criminal at worst.

Does anyone else encounter this perception? Simple debate doesn't dispel the misconceptions, so what can we do?

Here's the alternative, IMO:

Step One: Demonize the Unions
Step Two: Outlaw the Unions
Step Three: Do whatever the hell you want to your employees because they have no collective bargaining power

[mdmc]

1. 1980

[cantstandbush]

60. Since Reagan fought hard for the Polish unions while trashing our own. !

[derby378]

2. Since they were first invented?

Big Business has always hated unions in America.

[bryant69]

6. I'd agree with this

Reagen's presidency was sort of a bellweather for union hating - but the sentiment had been built up over time by big business, ever since the unions were created.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[supernova]

14. Yep, in the 1930s there were some really bad strikes

which included scuffles between union workers and police. So "unions" became synonomous with outlaw type behavior in the popular mind. And BB has worked overtime to foster that attitude.

[K-W]

33. Yah, the only answer to this question is a good labor history book. nt

[bobbieinok]

47. great Heine quote

I first saw this on a memorial to the Nazi book-burnings in Goettingen. It's truly eery that Heine foresaw the Nazi era a hundred years before it happened.

"There, where people burn books, in the end they burn people too."

[Nite Owl]

3. I think it really got into fulltime

demonization under Reagan.

[Virginia Dare]

8. former Pres. of the Actors Guild.

[Virginia Dare]

4. Unions give power to the workers...

companies don't like them. Lots of money has been spent to marginalize them over the last 50 years or so.

I think they will make a come back, it's the natural cycle of things.

[IdaBriggs]

5. I'm sorry, but unions do not police their own very well in Michigan.

The autoworkers will tell you tales; my father came home with them. My father-in-law is a Teamster, and he saw it first hand.

Life is full of "what have you done for me lately?" moments, and the Unions, in an effort to be fair perhaps, instead became a vehicle for corruption and cronyism.

That doesn't mean they didn't do good things in the past; it just means that is how they are perceived TODAY.

:shrug:

[Orrex]

11. Fair enough, I supposed. But it's unfortunate

How might the corruption be overcome? I fear that the alternative--no Unions at all, or greatly reduced Unions--would only cripple the rights and protections now granted to employees.

[IdaBriggs]

24. I'm sorry -- I don't have a good answer. The sense of "entitlement"

is the real problem, and unfortunately, it isn't confined to the upper echelons of management.

One of my "uncle in laws" (husband's uncle) tells the story of how he was doing maintenance at one plant where a whole bunch of other workers didn't "bother" working. While they napped, played cards, and disappeared from the building to the local bar, he and one or two other "good workers" would scramble to do the job of eight people. They almost got the crap kicked out of them because "they were making the other guys look bad by working too fast."

:banghead:

These stories are not uncommon (at least in Michigan).

I would love to see some solutions to these types of problems, and I applaud the efforts of those who try to solve them.

[Virginia Dare]

12. Hey, I don't disagree...

but for every "union leaders are corrupt" story, there are a dozen "corporate execs are corrupt" stories. It's all about public perception, and there have been forces out there who have worked very hard at shaping that perception.

[IdaBriggs]

22. "They are crooks, TOO!" doesn't really cut it.

Both my father *and* my father-in-law became Republicans because of Unions. They *personally* witnessed the corruption and saw the damage it did because THEY KNEW THE GUYS WHO WERE DOING IT. The CEO of the company wouldn't affect them the same way because THEY DON'T SEE HIM EVERYDAY, and thus he is too far removed. The jackass union rep who has his buddies punch him in everyday while he is at home mowing his lawn (true story) is the one who sticks in their craw.

The bottom line is this: by the very nature of the beast, there are probably *more corrupt union guys* at a shop than there are *corrupt CEOs* because there are only a few guys at the top, and A LOT MORE workers. The cynical part of my nature thinks its only a matter of "access" between the two -- both are comfortable stealing from everyone else while they don't pull their own fair share....

:shrug:

[Virginia Dare]

31. I don't discount your family members' experiences...

however, I take issue with your statement that there are "more corrupt union guys" at a shop than there are "corrupt CEO's". I don't buy your logic on that one. I've been personally involved with many union shops and I can tell you from my experience that there are far more good apples out there than bad ones.

I'm not denying that there are corrupt union leaders, after all, it stands to reason POWER=GREED. And people at the top of any organization will potentially abuse their power.

By the way, did the union shop that your family belong to democratically elect their leaders? Was the whole damn thing corrupt? I'm not discounting it, I've certainly heard of these cases. Why didn't they just throw the bums out? Workers don't have that option with the bosses.

[IdaBriggs]

39. My "more corrupt union guys" at a shop is simply a logical numbers game.

Assuming 2% of any group is "corrupt", one thousand workers = 20 corrupt folks; one hundred managers = 2 corrupt folks. 20 is greater than 2. Unfortunately, even a few bad apples can ruin the taste for most people....:(

My family is heavily involved in the automotive industry, and most of the experiences I am relating are from "the big three." I am not familiar with the politics of the situation, but I have inferred that the unions are viewed in a similar way to high school popularity contests, with all of the political machinations and back stabbing that goes on among the "popular kids" and the different social crowds being carried forward into the "new environment."

In other words, its not *what* you know that counts, but rather *who* you know; if you are a relative of "someone important" or "drinking buddies with a rep" you can get away with more than you can if you are just a regular guy who does his job and then goes home at the end of the day.

My father spent his entire thirty year career in law enforcement (he was an investigator); he officially *HATED* the unions because he would *CATCH A GUY STEALING* and the union bosses would trade away worker protections (lights in the parking lot, for example) to keep the thief employed.

The only reason I have any respect for unions is because of my knowledge of their history; personally, I haven't *ever* heard a good union story, and that is kind of sad. Forty hour work weeks, decent health care -- we wouldn't have it without unions.

But, I guess some folks decided to make money off of the union dues, and things pretty much went to hell after that.

[Virginia Dare]

41. I'm truly sorry about that....

greed comes in all shapes and colors unfortunately. They are usually very political organizations, so I understand what you're saying.

I think sometimes unions get a bum rap though. I had a relative who worked in a union meatpacking plant. The plant decided they were going to bust the union so they basically broke the existing contract and offered up a new one which they knew there was no way in hell the union could accept. The ownership ended up closing the plant and blaming it on the union. My relative bought the whole thing lock, stock, and barrel, and from then on hated all unions. I'm sure this happened over and over as factories and plants around the country gradually shut down in search of cheaper labor.

The way I see it, unions are going to have to adapt and change right along with times, they can't keep operating like the old days. I could go on and on about what's wrong with unions these days, but the bottom line is, WE NEED THEM. We see what the alternative is.

[sadiesworld]

37. Corporations and their henchmen in the CIA have been known

to place ringers in the union hierarchy (and rank and file) in order to make unions look bad.

I'm not denying that good old fashioned laziness and sense of entitlement exist, but unions have a rich history of psy ops infiltration.

[rucky]

44. Shouldn't throw the baby out with the bathwater, though. n/t

[novalib]

7. Ronald Reagan

If I had to guess, it was when Ronald Reagan fired the Air Traffic Controllers.

Also, I don't think it is quite correct to say that Unions have become "demonized".

I think they do a world of good for the workers.

I think they have been harassed and, thanks to years of Republican rule, somewhat neutralized.

But I do not want to buy into the notion that Unions are "demons".

[Norquist Nemesis]

9. You must be in the 18-25 demographic

The biggest hit in recent history was Reagan coming into office. Air traffic controllers.

[Orrex]

13. A little older than that, but...

I meant more in terms of demonization by the average schmo on the street. That is, the type of person who's actually benefited from past efforts by Unions is now the type of person very likely to vilify them.

Baffling!

[HereSince1628]

10. Yes the Air Traffic Control strike was important, but

the party leadership chose international corporations over American labor in the late 80s and when back in the executive promoted NAFTA over the objection of labor.

[Virginia Dare]

16. Yep, and this should not be forgotten.. EOM

[ugarte]

15. Ronald Reagan brought extremism and union-bashing mainstream...

Factor in talk radio and you have lots of working people identifying with the rich over their own interests.

[bunkerbuster1]

36. I've said before that the PATCO bust-up was a real turning point

One of the great unheralded turning points in our nation's history. A President decided he could destroy a union, and got away with it. Country really hasn't been the same since, has it?

[Canuckistanian]

17. The propaganda is working

Ever since the corporatists took over news reporting, there's been a concerted effort make unions the bogeyman.

Union crime and corruption? Big news. Corporate crime and corruption? Page A17 in the gutter, with plenty of emotional claims of being railroaded.

[specimenfred1984]

18. Early Corporate Propaganda Demonized Unions

and has ever since. Here's a good book on it:

"Taking the Risk Out of Democracy: Corporate Propaganda Versus Freedom and Liberty"

[Neil Lisst]

19. unions peaked in the 1970s, and Reagan was the death knell

once he busted the Air Traffic Controllers, it was about over.

Since then, it's been a decline.

Pubs have successfully used as wedge issues on union members the second amendment issues, affirmative action, and all the "left" issues.

They've split off the union vote, and now all those unions members who voted Republican are seeing their plants closed and their rights cut back. Big Labor has flaked big time on the Democratic party the past 15 years, and now they're paying the price.

[LSK]

20. Reagan

[DaveJ]

21. We can blame Reagan, but there's another problem.

Another problem is that when new high tech professions developed, no unions were formed to support them, so we now have less educated laborers expecting to make good money whereas highly educated technicians are left to their own devices. This naturally creates some tension and leaves many people thinking union members have unreasonable expectations.

[Bridget Burke]

34. Unions are not formed to support workers....

They are formed BY the workers. Certain people may have felt above being so "blue collar."

Is it really to late for the highly educated technicians?

[Bill McBlueState]

56. an example to prove your point

Grad students around the country have been unionizing themselves since 1990. We might be "highly educated" by some standards, but our working conditions demanded collective action then and they still do.

[Cleita]

45. This is why professionals should band together to form guilds if

they don't want to use the blue collar word union. They function the same like the Screen Actors Guild.

[TheBaldyMan]

55. there are several high tech workers organisations

google it and you'll find a few based in america. There's even an international union of anarcho-syndics for workers with an ITC branch.

[AngryAmish]

23. 1980 - Chicago Firefighters Strike

Hiring permanent replacements

[DrGonzoLives]

25. Since their inception

Believe me, they are much less demonized now than when they were called Bolsheviks and had to carry guns instead signs to their strikes.

[Rainscents]

26. Listen to Thom Hartmann,

He'll tell you the full history about this issue. People have no idea, how many people died and went to prison for standing up against corporate. Reagan, corporate and republican politicians hate Unions!

[Bozita]

30. Hartmann is an EXCELLENT source on the topic of labor history in America

Sometimes, I think I'm listening to Howard Zinn.

[NoPasaran]

27. 1870s

Especially after the great strike wave of 1877.

[Hubert Flottz]

28. 1900 right up until NOW!

[earth mom]

29. Unions have been demonized because that's what the Corporate Whores want.

Our government is way more corrupt than ANY Union. They have been bought and paid for by Corporations and Businesses and that's who they do their bidding for! :puke:

Of course, Unions are FOR THE PEOPLE aka THE AVERAGE JOE. Can't have anyone speaking up for him or for any of us-not any icky old Union and certaintly not any of our Government officials who were elected to SERVE US-now can we?! :sarcasm:

[K-W]

32. The organized masses have always been demonized.

Since they have always posed a threat to the elite few.

[Bridget Burke]

35. Houston's NBC affiliate mentioned "Big Labor" in a news story...

I never heard them say "Bloated Corporations."

So I switched to Channel 11 (CBS).

[sadiesworld]

38. There's been a subtle thread of union-bashing

in Hollywood films for years now.

[Cleita]

43. Yes, this was the beginning of enterainment outsourcing when

production companies started fleeing to Canada and New Zealand to film.

[Blue_Tires]

57. really?

do you have examples? just curious....

[sadiesworld]

59. Two recent ones are Cinderella Man and North Country.

It's subtle, particularly in Cinderella Man, but it's there. I'll repost if I can remember some others (these two are NOT the worst).

Have you ever seen The Barbarian Invasions? It's an absolute hit piece on Canada's single payer healthcare program. It also won the oscar for best foreign film (I've forgotten the year).

[Blue_Tires]

62. no, i haven't seen Barbarian

or the others...maybe they deserve a look

[malaise]

40. It started in the 80s but

the real destruction of unions took root with the collapse of the Soviet Union. From that day there was no need to pretend to care about workers.

[Cleita]

42. Reagan, when he successfully busted the air controllers union.

It was downhill after that. Some unions had become corrupt in their leadership, collecting dues, but not doing much for the workers. I think this added a lot to the ease with which the corporations were able to weaken and erode them.

[bobbieinok]

46. late 40s and the 50s

I was a kid reading the Tulsa papers then. There was NEVER a positive union story.

I remember when I found out that the father of one of my hi school friends was in a union. The next time I saw him I kept sneaking peeks at him to see how his union membership had affected him. He didn't LOOK any different; but I can remember being really freaked out b/c of all the negative stuff I was bombarded with in the local papers and on the news.

I think the daily radio broadcasts of Westbrook Peglar and Fulton Lewis Jr were constantly anti union. My dad was a news junky and always listened to the radio news; I think maybe the only daily broadcasters were pretty RW.

[adigal]

48. I just said in front of two of my coworkers, both right wingers

who belong to our union, that we had better watch out because I regularly hear Hannity going on and on about how evil unions are, and how union members make too much money, and how they have great benefits.

I told the wingnuts that they had better keep an eye on their party because they are trying to sow discord towards union members, and get people to vote for propositions like those in Calif., which would weaken pensions and take the money away.

[Finder]

49. Since they organized...

they have been demonized by one group or another. They tend to be used as the communist/socialist boogyman by many groups.

Some unions have had a history of corruption, but no more no less than any other group dynamic infiltrated by greed.

As others noted, the 80s succeeded in diminishing the political power of the major unions--at least in the minds of the average Joe. It will take another decade or so for them to reach the level of influence they once had.

[Minnesota Libra]

50. Reagan can be thanked for this when he busted airline pilots union nt

[Gabi Hayes]

51. it started the FIRST time two slaves/serfs, etc, got together to try

deal from their vassal

power will NEVER give up ANY power willingly

[Blue_Tires]

52. good question

I was going to ask it myself....I keep up with the auto industry, and post on a few car boards, and the anti-union sentiment there for the UAW/CAW is astounding...Sadly, 20+ years of constant anti-union memes in the media with absolutely NO response or rebuttal from our side has had its effect on popular opinion.

[0007]

53. Corporation and GOP propaganda

Some Unions for sure.

[TheBaldyMan]

54. Back in Andrew Carnegies day, he was one of the major

union busting billionaires.

[Vidar]

58. When Raygun went after the air traffic controllers.

[WinkyDink]

61. Who are the multi-millionaires and billionaires? Enough said.

[upi402]

63. business roundtable after 1970's. it was caught flat-footed and labor gain

Reagan was the Grand Potentate of neo-corporatism.