I'm Afraid The Repukes Will Vote Censure Out Of Committee

[cali]

for a full vote, and oh what a cluster fuck that will be. At this point I think the best scenario is that it not get out for a full vote. Should dems have to vote on it, I'm afraid they'll overwhelmingly vote against it, lending legitimacy both to bushco and domestic spying.

[saltpoint]

1. Cali, I bet you're right on the vote part, but in principle, Senator

Feingold has done American democracy an enormous service today.

The facts of what's happened behind the scenes in many areas of power presided over by BushCo are yet to be revealed. There's still 3 years of this miserable administration.

I don't like Bush's odds much.

[blm]

18. Exactly - Feingold SUCCEEDED already - he forced media to discuss Bush's

extralegal actions when they were ready to let them go, and the hearings FORCED Republicans to DEFEND Bush's extralegal actions for the PUBLIC RECORD.

The historic record will appreciate what these hearings today are doing, even if the media spins this against Feingold as expected.

[flpoljunkie]

2. If Dems can't justify vote for censuring this president, then God help us!

It's about the "rule of law"--plain and simple. No one is above the law--not even the president of the United States!

[cali]

3. After this morning with only Sen. Leahy

showing up to support Feingold and the rest of the Judiciary dems not even making a cursory appearance- including such liberal stalwarts as Schumer and Kennedy, I have no faith in them whatsoever.

[yellowcanine]

4. I doubt that will happen. I am not sure the pubbies are any more

eager to have a vote on this then the fearful Dems. If things continue to go South on Bush there may be quite a few pubbies who don't want a recorded vote that might appear to be in support of the Bush crimes.

[amitten]

5. The Dems must vote for censure. They should be more afraid

of losing constituent support than of Bush & Co.

Furthermore, a lot of Republicans in America support censure. Bush broke the law--it's not rocket science.

[understandinglife]

6. I respectfully disagree. I consider a full Senate vote a watershed ...

... moment for the Nation.

We need the traitors on record - in the Congressional Record - once and for all.

That is exactly what a vote against censure will mean. Period.

It's time and Senator Feingold has truly "drawn the line in the sand" - You're either a defender of the Constitution of the United States of America, or You're a traitor.

FYI:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=805139&mesg_id=805139


Peace.

[fooj]

7. I agree. The Republicans made a serious miscalculation

this morning in a desperate attempt to save their asses. The American people are RAGING and they are not listening. Big mistake, IMO. The C-span callers verified that for me when Repubs support CENSURING this imposter.

Peace.

[cali]

10. I'm afraid it wouldn't play out that way

Practically, a vote in the Senate strengthens the repubs hand, and binds some of bushco's wounds.

[understandinglife]

16. Respectfully, I disagree. A vote against censure is a declaration ...

... of complicity in the crimes of Bush - an indelible admission of their violation of Oath of Office and their participation in a conspiracy to violate the 4th Amendment Rights of every American citizen and a willing partner in the violation of FISA and National Security Act of 1947 Federal statutes.

And, that is exactly what "We the People ..." will use as a basis to bring each of Bush's fellow, self-admitted criminals to justice before the law.

They will be prosecuted.


Peace.

[Savannah Progressive]

8. Of course they will

The Repugniks know our Beltway Dems will run from this. The Repugniks want to force the Dems hands on the issue, just like they did to Rep. Murtha. By voting a measure out and putting it to the full vote, the Repugniks will take the issue right off the table, and look like heros to the syccophant press.

The Dems could make a hell of a statement, instead our Beltway Dems will make a great surrender on the issue, and it's dead come November, and a dead issue even if (a constantly dwindleing opportunity) we win back controll of Congress this November.

Next thing you know we will be voting for the Medal of Freedom for Bush, Rice, Rumsfeld, Cheney, and the rest of the Neo-con powerful.

[jwirr]

9. Of course they will but in the doing they reveal their real values.

[reality based]

11. I'm beginning to understand how the Roman Senate betrayed

their republic.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

12. No offense, but you seem to be scared by the potential of failure.

That is just one of many problems that our Democratic corpse in the House and Senate also suffer with.

I do not care if we lose this vote. It is far, far better to seek a vote and get one, AND put every GOP person on record about personal privacy and law breaking, than not to try at all.

You suggest that not making waves is best, unless victory is assured. That approach has allowed our country to fall into the abyss in which it now finds itself. The Ultra-conservatives that have hijacked the GOP were also permitted to hijack the entire congress, and along the way, our country. It is strange that such a small minority can do so much damage, but one reason why is because the democrats refused to stand up and fight. WE still continue to fail to stand up and at least try.
If we never try, if we keep our powder dry, if we wait until victory is guaranteed, WE WILL NEVER WIN because WE WILL NEVER TRY.

I am only afraid that the censure vote will NOT get out of committee.

[AnnInLa]

20. ding ding.....all Chicken Little posts this morn

[ChairmanAgnostic]

22. I skipped that year. What's the story behind Chicken little?

Is that the one who cried wolf or lived in a shoe?

[cali]

23. Codswallop

Astute observations of how things actually work and realistic projections of likely outcomes to specific actions hardly fit the chicken little mold. I could just as well call you a little miss pollyanna.

[AnnInLa]

27. maybe the Dem Party should hire you as an advisor

Astute observations = Negativity, big time, all the time

Realistic projections = Pessimism, big time, all the time

Inadvertant or otherwise? Who knows, who cares?

[cali]

29. And maybe you could try, just try

to do something more than serial personal bashing and actually add something to the conversation? Nah, that would be far too much to hope for.

[AnnInLa]

30. After having read each and every thread that you started this morning

on the Censure Hearing, I am just amazed that each of your posts was of a glass half empty, instead of half full.

Is there a problem with seeing that there is a big picture here....that of bringing several Constitutional questions into the public discourse? That has been accomplished today by Senators Feingold and Leahy.

Can you try to be a little PROUD to be a Democrat today? I am. It is one of those "watershed days," and I'm just surprised that you don't recognize it. If you doubt my criticism of your negativity, go back and read each of your threads this morning...nothing but pessimism, negativism and criticism.

Rhetorical question: What is the point of refusing to see the big picture, and starting thread after thread full of negativity? The amount of negatives threads you have started on this issue is just astounding....but whatever floats your....

[cali]

21. None taken, but

I suggest you're not reading the situation accurately. Yes, I'm afraid, but it's not fear of failure, it's the fear of the likely negative repercussions, and by that I mean the probability that a clear majority vote against censure, strengthens the republicans' and bushco's hand. I haven't suggested that not making waves is fine. I'm proud to say that I supported Feingold this morning. Also, if you think it's a small minority that's hijacked the GOP, you're sadly mistaken. They're now the GOP mainstream.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

24. I concede that today they are mainstream, but only because the Dems

allowed major league wacko-isms to become mainstream. 6 - 8 years ago, the neocons were a minority within their own party.

Losing this vote does not change the status quo. Even if we lose, as another smarter poster than I pointed out, we win.
Pinning down the GOP on criminal activity will only help us.

Can you imagine their ad campaign?
"The evil democrats attacked our president because they complained about his right to spy on you. We KNOW you don't care about that, and that in order to find the tiniest bit of security, you will give up all your liberties. Therefore, it is clear that the democrats are anti-american, because they don't want you to be secure. And therefore, it is evn more clear that democrats support terra.
Vote Republican, 'cause we will know if you don't."

[dogday]

26. I like the way you think..

You really think Russ thought this would make it out of committee? His plan is to put it out there, to get it public, and to put on record who is supporting what......

[ChairmanAgnostic]

28. There is a chance, this being 2006 and bush having 34% support, a small

chance that the bill might actually pass. Of course, with the spineless bums afraid of their own shadows who call themselves Democrats, there may be too much fear. I can actually see some of them abstaining, then heading to a county fair and joining a beauty contest for horses' asses.

Russ has done great. He did get it out there, he made it public and eventually, the GOP will be on some sort of record. We can all be proud of that man. Seeing the rising support of him in Wisc, it is clear that he has struck a patriotic, constitutional and democratic nerve (little "d" on purpose) with the citizens of his state. Good gooing, Russ!

Lindsay Graham's little anti-Nixon and anti-Clinton tirade was probably written in the Oval Office, and handed to him the day before. Yet, even he agrees that some congressional oversight is part of the constitution. I suspect he was kissing presidential ass just enough to provide himself with cover in November.

Orrin Hatch? The man lives on another planet, populated by inerrant bible spouters, a 10,000 yr old universe, a virgin birth and skylights in SUVs to allow for easier ascending at the time of rapture. If that is the best that the GOP can do, heh heh. A public vote will be a huge victory for America, not just the Democrats.

We need new blood in our party. A party of smart, hard-working, loyal (to our country and our constitution), and not willing to sit back and take it up the ass whenever the White House says cough.
How about the DEMOBRATS. Brave, Resourceful, American, Thoughtful, Stubborn.

[Radio_Guy]

13. We need a floor vote on censure

And we need every Democrat and every Repug who is against domestic spying to vote for censure. That would be a supreme slap in the face of Bush. But all those who privately believe in censuring Bush needs to publicly do so.

[RaleighNCDUer]

14. I don't know. I think that an open vote will clarify things for some

people - like my solidly Dem, but (forgive me) misguided mother who doesn't understand my problems with Biden -- she thinks he'd be the top choice for '08.

[patricia92243]

15. Of course they will. I didn't realize there was any doubt about that. n/t

[AnnInLa]

17. Poster "understanding life" is absolutely correct

Let's see.....this morning,there have been so many threads that "the sky is falling, the sky is falling," and "I am SO disappointed by congressional Dems," and "this move by Feingold is a big mistake."

Considering that the repukes do not want to have this discussion at all and do not want it out in the public for the sheeple to think about....then, it is a GOOD Thing to have it out there.

Yes, a Watershed Moment, indeed.

Baby steps, baby steps.

Big picture, Cali.

[SeattleRob]

19. I will be surprised if it makes it out to the floor

I suspect they will vote it down and make it go away. While they might want to get it out on the floor and force a vote, I think they would much rather the issue go away. The longer the issue stays in focus, the more it will be discussed. I really don't think they want that.

[Jack Rabbit]

25. You're probably right, unfortunately

Any Democratic Senator up for re-election this year who fails to vote for censure should face a primary challenge.

We will not tolerate Vichy Democrats on this vote.



Portait of Marshall Petain from NNDB

[Zimmy44]

31. If it goes to full vote

and the great majority vote against it, I think there will be a large reaction in the public - people get real angry with their reps when they reveal themselves to be that far out of touch. I think it would be a good thing - people would get engaged, Reps and Dems, in a very meaningful way.

[dogday]

32. Need to look on the positive side of what this

represents...

I see this as one candle in the dark, and one candle in the dark still lights the room... That candle is Russ Feingold and his decision to do the right thing, not the popular, thing, the right thing...

[Strawman]

33. Good

They might think they're being cute right now, but they could end up stirring up some real opposition. And then they won't know what the hell to do. For the past six years they've been able to label opponents of the Chimperor as deviants, let's see how they perform once a review of his conduct is placed into the realm of legitimate controversy. Russ Feingold is a sober, articulate person. It might not be as easy to tar him as they might think.