On this whole Cynthia McKinney thing:

[The Straight Story]

I hear a lot about the cops there - but dosen't she know the procedures there having been there day in and out for some time?

I work in a secured data center and if I forget my badge (and I have) the first thing I do is stop at the security office and get a temp one. I would never think of just bypassing our security - which I helped to put into place at some levels - by just ignoring them.

I don't think a charge against her is warranted. But I know damn well if one of our security people stopped me and I hit/smacked them I would be in heap big trouble. And if someone did grab me I don't really don't think I would assault them in any way.

Think about this - had this been bush or any other rethug, what would our reaction be? We would be complaining about how they were above the law, could hit the little guy and shrug it off, etc.

Wrong is wrong in my book, and I don't care what letter they have after their name. You know the procedures, you ignore them, you hit someone - well that just seems wrong in my book period - and I don't care how much I like you.

[FloridaPat]

1. Didn't work for Eva Gabor. After all, our elected officals are suppose to

obey the law right?

[populistdriven]

4. except for Bush

[billbuckhead]

5. I want to see the film

If she did something wrong, then we should see it on the film.

[Vidar]

60. Zsa Zsa, not Eva. Carry on.

[Gabi Hayes]

2. answer this for me, then, sir:

another thread says the police have the tapes of the incident, but REFUSE to release them. why not?

was Osama on the tape, or some other security threat to 'sources and methods?'

do you know how many other times they've 'mistaken' her, and have detained her?

thank you

[Aimah]

6. Right, the "hair change" excuse is not the point.

They were hassling her even when she had her signature braids.

[The Straight Story]

8. And they should release them to us WHY?

They don't need to show them to us yet. Such will come out in court.

When I was a deputy we taped the jail 24x7. If something occured (and it did several times) we did not rush off to the media to give them a copy (and there were several reasons, one of which was protecting people who happend to be in the tape).

If they were to refuse to air such a tape in court, I would find that real suspicious. Not sending it out to media folks I can understand.

[Gabi Hayes]

11. got me there, I guess. for now

if they charge her, do they have to give them to her, or can she demand them for her defense?

[LSK]

12. innocent till proven guilty - she didnt do it

Prove me wrong.

[The Straight Story]

She should be able to demand the tape (and something else too)

As far as something else, there is my daughter. 5 Years old this past Monday.

My wife regularly gets searched when she flies, and my daughter does sometimes as well.

If they skirted past security and then hit/slapped the cop that stopped them what would happen to them? My wife would be in jail right now.

How is my wife different? She flys a lot so security there should know her, but still (do some previous mix up) they search her more than some others. She knows this and just deals with it and moves on.

I think Cynthia McKinney is a grand lady, but she is still just one of us, just with a job that has more power than we do. If she was treated unfairly, then I hope she kicks some ass. But if she thinks she has a right to hit a cop when we don't, well she is wrong.

[Gabi Hayes]

25. sorry, but that's a BAD an analogy as I've heard in a long time

she's a MEMBER of CONGRESS. they have their PICTURES up to STUDY, so this sort of thing won't happen

they have PINS on their clothes to get them past security

she's been hassled several times before

did you know any of that?

[acmejack]

45. She wasn't wearing the pin.

She habitually doesn't, it appears she does her part to contribute to an acrimonious relationship. Especially this late in a session it is pretty in excusable for the cop to not recognize her IMO. The guy wasn't a rookie.

[Kurovski]

56. If they did have an assault on tape, you know it would have been released

on direct orders of Karl Rove.

It stinks bad.

Until there is an unmodified tape of the incident released, I'm completely supporting McKinney. BushCo has pulled one to many stunts on McKinney for me to believe otherwise.

[sproutster]

3. OH YEA I TOTALLY SAW THE VIDEO THEY HAVE...

Oh wait, no I didn't... It's not being shown, wonder why?

Because they are protecting her?

What gentlemen.

[Gabi Hayes]

7. here you go

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x809739

[sproutster]

19. Hehe, tis okies, I was being kinda sarcastic.

I'm well aware that if she was at fault it would be plastered on Fox.

It probably shows him grabbing her arm, jerking her back. She more then likely pivotes with her arm raised incidently with the phone to protect herself and steady herself.

While a suprisingly large group of peeps her are ok with being grabbed from behind and are docile, kind and polite to the person, because there is a good reason for them to be grabbed. The above would be my reaction.

[Gabi Hayes]

23. I know! I just wanted to get that thread up. I laughed at your post!

I've learned a long time ago to wait til all the 'facts' come out

since they have the tape, I'll wait til then

sounds, from her relative reticence, that she may have overreacted, but so WHAT?

the most she did, according to the fuzz, was hit the guy in the CHEST!!

and two'll get you ten, he was wearing kevlar, after the shootings there awhile ago

how badly could she have hurt him by 'punching' his chest?

huh?

[Poppyseedman]

9. Maybe she has a case of BIG HEAD syndrome

The other thing that sort of rankles me is the attempt to make this a racial event.

There are 535 members of Congress, I'm sure not every single one of them are known by face by every police officer.

As for hitting the officer, there is absolutely no excuse for doing that.

[Gabi Hayes]

15. what facts? were you THERE?

jesus

the same FACTS that they used to get Cindy Sheehan kicked out of congress?

like the FACT that she uneiled a banner?

that kind of fact?

jesus ffing christ

[Poppyseedman]

28. Facts???

Just where did I state any factual information? I did say "MAYBE" I stated my opinion, if that's O.K.?

[Gabi Hayes]

31. since you edited your post, I have no idea what you said

as for hitting a cop, NO excuse for EVER hitting a cop, huh?

first of all, what does 'hitting' a cop entail?

my sister is a judge, and has told me lots of cop stories. cops have sworn that somebody 'hit' them, when all they did was touch their arm. it comes out in court like that a LOT

just remember how the cops treated Cindy Sheehan, and all the lies they told about that encounter

keep saying things like that all you want

[Poppyseedman]

35. The only thing I edited was the number of members from

635 to 535.

[Gabi Hayes]

37. fabulous! now, please answer the rest of my questions

please

do you have some special knowledge of what happened there?

wouldn't it be better to withhold judgment til we know what happened

sorry for being like this, but, well, I can't help it

and anybody who goes after McKinney makes me jittery

nobody in congress has been attacked as viciously or mendaciously as she's been, IIRC, in recent memory

[niyad]

18. last time I looked, there were FIVE Hundred thirty five members of

congress, 435 in the House and 100 in the Senate.

[Poppyseedman]

22. Thanks for correcting my error

I know there are 535 members. I blame it on "Fat finger disease"

[laundry_queen]

53. Well there were over 700 kids in my school.

And I knew the face and name of all of them. I was 13.

[LSK]

10. why do you think she smacked an officer?? no facts support that

I will bet that when its all cleared up that she did no such thing. Why are you being fooled into thinking she did?

[Gabi Hayes]

13. wrong post replied to

sorry

[LSK]

16. ok

[Gabi Hayes]

17. heh...sorry

this REALLY pisses me off, especially that there are those here so quick to judge, especially one of only a TINY TINY HANDFUL of patriots who never bought the filthy lies we've been told ever since 911.

she's a HERO and they're going after her

I HEARD, heh, that the cop is a FREEPER!

and that's a FACT!

my fact

[LSK]

21. had me worried for a sec, no worries

Dont miss the Larry King repeat if you didnt see it, it was great!!

[Gabi Hayes]

26. saw it. what a surprising treat! somebody who got a chance to speak up

to the lying liars, who could only spew talking point after talking point

911

health savings accounts

immigrants are jihadists

heh

[niyad]

14. you are aware, of course, that MC's have the right to bypass security and

just walk right in?

[The Straight Story]

20. Fine by me, but do they have the right to hit someone when I don't?

She may be cleared, and I hope she is - but if things unfolded as understood she needs to calm down and not be so quick to lash out at others.

[niyad]

27. one of the points of your OP was that she was in error just walking around

the checkpoint--when, in fact, as an MC, she had every right to do so.

(I understand that MC's have a pin indentifying them as such. shouldn' be that hard to figure out)

[Poppyseedman]

30. In the initial story she was not wearing her identifying pin

at least according to the capital police press statement

[Gabi Hayes]

32. in the inital story, Cindy Sheehan unveiled a BANNER in congress

when are you going to learn to be more patient about so-called facts

[Poppyseedman]

39. Just what in the world is your beef ???

I never stated anything as FACT, Do you have a reading comprehension problem?

I understand associating the Cindy Sheehan event with this McKinney event can make a decent strawman argument, but if you remember the MEDIA was reporting that Cindy was carrying a banner as opposed legitimate police force that is supposed to be professionals reporting on this situation.

[Gabi Hayes]

48. what's wrong with YOUR reading comprehension?

I never referred to any facts you may have stated. I was talking about the 'facts' as have been asserted by the police and media. you're making your assumptions based upon what, exactly, if not 'facts?'

and your attitude more than reveals itself with your accusing her of having a big head; pretty obnoxious dismissal of her side of the story, considering that this is at least the third time she's been hassled this way

why don't you explain to everyone where you came up with your big head theory?

[The Straight Story]

38. A Pin???

I am sure they do, and that is fine - but if you do not see such a pin, what do you do then??

I have worked security for Ross Labs and Chemical Abstracts and others, and if we did not see a badge when someone walked past our desk we stopped them. Period. That did not give such people the right to hit me or other secutiy folk.

There are procedures in place for a reason, she could have avoided this by heading up to security and getting things right, but she didn't and then hit someone over it.

Wrong is wrong no matter who you are - I don't want bush and his buddies getting away with things any more than I want our folks to. Common sense should be the message of the day here, and I don't see that as being followed.

[Gabi Hayes]

40. I see this is becoming a waste of time.....

this is part of the procedure to allow MCs to get through security easier, whether you like it or not.

additionally, as has been said here, she's been hassled several other times before, so they should be on special lookout for her

and why are you so quick to judge what happened?

you have NO IDEA what happened today, so why not wait?

if she PUNCHED the guy, then she'll suffer the consequences. punched him in the chest....was he wearing kevlar? bet that really hurt

but, then, I don't know what happened, and neither do you, so why don't you stop rushing to judgment?

[The Straight Story]

42. Kevlar matters why?

It is the act of hitting someone that is at issue here.

Did she or didn't she? And do we justify a violent response to some things, and if so what?

What would YOU do?

[Gabi Hayes]

44. how hard did she hit him? did she punch him, shove him, smack him,

touch him, swing around and bump him?

wouldn't it be a good idea to wait and see what the film reveals?

why not just wait?

I don't understand this quickness to interpret what happened without having access to more information

[The Straight Story]

50. Quickness is what news is about

this happend recently and quickly, so the reaction is the same.

If she had not been so quick herself would this whole thing be an issue?

If she wants to put an end to it, and I am sure she does, then give us more details than she has.

But she hasn't. So that leaves us here online to speculate. Sure I may be wrong, she might be, who knows. The ball is in her court and I hope she fields it well - but the basic facts are she hit someone and has justified that based on her interpretation that the officer inappropriately touched her. Which is not saying much. Why not say more?

[me b zola]

59. She had her Congressional ID and she showed it to the police

This is per Rep McKinney's statement. If you are interested, the statement and link are in Autorank's thread about Rep McKinney.

[Gabi Hayes]

29. why are you on THEIR side?

how do you know what happened?

why are you so quick to judge, when you only have THEIR side of the story

I really want to know

[The Straight Story]

47. I am on the people's side

I don't care what letter people have after their name.

I am not going to defend a dem when they are wrong, period.

I have her side, which is not much - why is that?

She has simply said she was touched inappropriately by a guard but has yet to define that - why??

[LSK]

57. YOU DONT KNOW SHES WRONG, FACT!!

[bbinacan]

24. Well said,

nobody is above the law.

[Gabi Hayes]

33. that's the funniest thing I've heard all year

can you guess why?

[The Straight Story]

34. So since bush is we all should be???

From peodphiles to people hitting cops to speeding?

If so I am off to rob a quickie mart!!!!

[Gabi Hayes]

36. nice try...a true sophist at work...last time I checked, it was NOBODY

why are you unwilling to wait until the facts are in?

why are you so quick to judge?

[The Straight Story]

41. Judging?

She has said she has deeply regretted this incident occured.

So something did happen and she acknowledges as much, basically saying it was the security officer's fault and not hers.

I am not judging so much as questioning her attitude about this whole affair and that of others - she is a person like the rest of us and hitting someone is not the way to do things.

[Gabi Hayes]

43. her "attitude?" please divine for us just what her "attitude" is

thank you

and please define 'hitting'

you do know that touching a cop can get you convicted of assault, yes?

that usually happens when there aren't any witnesses

[The Straight Story]

46. The tape is a witness

And if they were not sure they would not have proceeded at all on this and it would have been buried.

I hope you are right, on all counts.

I am willing to say I don't know enough about the details of this, and that is fine by me. But I cannot think of a time when I would hit a security officer. She claims they touched her 'inappropriately' but has not defined what that means. Why?

If she is totally in the clear why is she not yelling for the tapes to be released and explaining in clear language what 'inappropriately' means?

[Gabi Hayes]

51. jesus...how do you know she's not yelling for the tapes to be release?

if she's not, uh, maybe she's in bed? maybe?

and just because you can't think of a time when you'd 'hit' a security guard depends on a lot of things, starting with what really happened, and how she really 'hit' him.

as I've said before, I know of MANY many instances of cops getting people convicted of hitting them when it didn't happened, or they just touched them. If you want, I'll get some specifics from my sister, currently a judge, who's told me lots of funny stories, like prisoners "falling down the stairs" in jail, and dying, when there was no way they ever left the cell

my point is, and I'm sorry for being so PISSED about this, is that judgment should be withheld til more facts are on the table

that McKinney is at the heart of it stinks, both from the standpoint that the pugpart would LOVE for her to be at fault, given her real heroism in being one of the only ones to demand accountability from this administration, AND, unfortunately from the standpoint that she might have slugge the cop

sure hope that's not what happened

one last...how many black congresswomen are there for the cops to recognize? that IS part of the procedure. they're suppposed to study pictures of MCs. not excusing her reaction, depending on whata happened, but, as I've said this isn't the first, or second, or third time this has happened. if they do prosecute, they'll be sorry, I'll wager

my guess is, they won't. but, hey, I'm speculating, aren't I?

gotta go

[bbinacan]

49. Thank you for the compliment

You called me a sophist.

A scholar or thinker.(From Dictionary.com)

Thank you!:yourock:

[Gabi Hayes]

52. jesus....read a little deeper before you break your arm patting yourself

on the back

sophist: Any of a group of professional fifth-century B.C. Greek philosophers and teachers who speculated on theology, metaphysics, and the sciences, and who were later characterized by Plato as superficial manipulators of rhetoric and dialectic.

from dictionary.com


thanks for proving my point. you manipulated that definition in a very sophisticated manner.

not

[bbinacan]

54. Thank you once again

And why are you being so acerbic? You manipulate pretty well yourself.

[bbinacan]

55. Where'd you go? n/t

[Swamp Rat]

58. HEY FREEPERS!

Y'all havin' fun?

[Twist_U_Up]

62. WHOLE LOTTA SPAM GOING ON

[rman]

61. To some it is a foregone conclusion that McKinney did in fact hit

the officer, even though this thing has yet to be investigated - presumably with video recordings as evidence.
So far we've only got a few eyewitness accounts from Republicans. I'd hesitate to base any conclusions on that.