Looks like the Mexicans are reclaiming their territory.

[cantstandbush]

Since the US government doesn't give a damn about the citizen workers, let the reclaiming begin.

[Dogmudgeon]

1. It isn't about territory, though

It's about respect.

Do you think we'll learn?

--p!

[LSK]

2. umm

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=810640&mesg_id=810640

[msongs]

3. mexicans took the "territory" from somone else first...

the original inhabitants of the territory in question did not speak spanish and they were not mexicans.
rather, there was a multitude of so-called native americans with a variety of societies, languages, and cultures.
some of these societies lived in blissful ignorance of each other and some interacted.

contrary to common opinion, the aztecs never colonized what is now southern california, except on the campus
of san diego state university :-)

and of course, the native americans swiped the land from the plants and animals.

As usual, the group who feels victimized now conveniently forgets when they were the victimizer.



Msongs
www.msongs.com/liberaltshirts.htm

[silverojo]

4. And they're gleefully victimizing once again

Trying to turn the border states into Mexico II: The Sequel. "Ruin your country first, then ruin others". Next up: "Canada's New Official Language: Spanish".

[RagingInMiami]

8. The border states have always been Mexican

You don't just draw a line between a culture and expect everything north of that line to suddenly become Anglo American.

Do the names San Antonio, Santa Fe, Los Angeles, San Diego, San Francisco, El Paso and Las Cruces sound Anglo to you?

[slaveplanet]

12. no they sound Spanish

weren't many of those outposts set up by Spanish Missionaries?

after Mexico won Independence from Spain the Spanish outposts were sold to the United States, I believe the documents for the deal are still in Washington DC.

I could be wrong but I think Spain is in Europe.

[RagingInMiami]

13. Wow, you must have been educated in the American School System

So was I, but I took it upon myself to learn the real history of the world.

First of all, it wasn't as simple as Mexico winning its independence from Spain, then cheerfully turning around to the United States and offering them the land for a price they could not refuse.

Mexico won it's independence from Spain in 1821, automatically taking ownership of Spanish outposts.

Then, after several years of fighting, Texas won its independence from Mexico in 1836.

Then in 1846, because it was their "God-given right" to spread from sea to shining sea, the United States decided it needed to seize the other Southwestern states. But Mexico did not want to sell at first, so the United States decided to fight them for those states.

Two years later in 1848, after the Americans defeated Mexico, the two countries signed the Treaty of Guadalupe.

But even though the U.S. legally took ownership of the land, it did not mean that the Mexicans living on that land suddenly disappeared. You see, they had been living there for centuries, before the US declared independence from England (which is also in Europe, ironically enough).

[slaveplanet]

14. Yes there's lots of claims and counterclaims

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexico#Mexican_independence

Soon after achieving its independence from Spain, the Mexican government, in an effort to populate some of its sparsely-settled northern land claims, awarded land grants in a remote area of the northernmost state of Coahuila y Tejas to thousands of immigrant families from the United States, on the condition that the settlers convert to Catholicism and assume Mexican citizenship. It also forbade the importation of slaves, a condition that, like the others, was largely ignored.

The government of the newly independent Mexico soon fell to rogue republican forces led by Antonio López de Santa Anna and others. The first Republic was formed with Guadalupe Victoria as its first president, followed in office by Vicente Guerrero who won the electoral vote but lost the popular vote (The Mexican constitution was at that time very similar to the US constitution; but was mostly ignored). The conservative party saw the opportunity to control the government and led a revolution under the leadership of Gen. Anastacio Bustamante who became president from 1830- early 1832. The federalists asked Gen. Antonio López de Santa Anna to overthrow Bustamante and he did it putting Gen. Pedraza (who won the electoral vote back in 1828) as the "true" president. Electoral elections took place and Santa Anna took office on 1832. Constantly changing political beliefs, as president (he was president seven different times), in 1834 Santa Anna abrogated the federal constitution, causing insurgencies in the southern state of Yucatán and the northernmost portion of the northern state of Coahuila y Tejas. Both areas sought independence from the Mexican government. While negotiations and the presence of Santa Annas army eventually brought Yucatán to again recognize Mexican sovereignty, Santa Anna's army turned to the northern rebellion. The inhabitants of Tejas, calling themselves Texans and led mainly by relatively recently-arrived English-speaking settlers, declared independence from Mexico at Washington-on-the-Brazos, giving birth to the Republic of Texas. Texas militia defeated the Mexican army and won its independence in 1836, further reducing the claimed territory of the fledgling republic. In 1845, voters in Texas voted to be annexed by the United States, and this was agreed to by Congress and signed into law by President John Tyler.

The US government sent troops to Texas in order to secure the territory ignoring the Mexican demands of withdrawal. Mexico, despite having ignored Texas for ten years, saw this as an US intervention in internal affairs by supporting a "rebel" province. Mexican troops then attacked and killed several soldiers and captured a small American detachment near the Rio Grande. President James K. Polk requested a declaration of war and the US Congress voted in favor on 13 May 1846. Mexico formally declared war on 23 May. This resulted in the Mexican-American War from 1846 to 1848. Mexico was defeated by the United States which occupied Mexico City and many other parts of Mexico, resulting in the Treaty of Guadalupe Hildalgo, where the United States purchased the mostly vacant northern territories for $15 million,

and I expect there always will be.

This guy here http://jahtruth.net/celtic.htm claims that the Phonecian-Israelites were really forced out and became Hiberians/Iberians "celts" or Dannites of Ireland and then made it all the way to Ohio where they built those giant mounds in prehistoric times.

and this guy is puzzled why the mounds look so much like the ones in Ireland http://www.iwaynet.net/~wdc/

In 1963, Arlington Mallery was still remembered locally as the amateur archaeologist who claimed that the Norse had built and operated iron smelting furnaces in Ross County, Ohio long before Columbus discovered America. Beginning in 1949, and continuing for several years, newspapers ran stories about Mallery and his "Viking furnaces." In his 1951 book, Lost America, Mallery classified the Overly furnace and several similar Ross County pit furnaces he investigated as "Nordic" or "Celtic" for their resemblance to ancient Old World pit smelters. He said his evidence "points to the Norse of Greenland" as those responsible for the furnaces, declared that the furnaces were "pre-Columbian," and were certainly the work of visitors from the Old World, if not the Norsemen themselves.

There many claims of the early European Explorers discovering natives who appear as African blacks around Panama and Chinese appearing peoples.

Does it prove anything? It only proves, no one living today really knows what really went on.

The thing is if backward thinking is so important. Shouldn't we just rename everthing Atlantis or Oceania or something, and then create a new common language to take the Babble out of Babylon.

Or should people engage in forward thinking and deal with the problems head on in the countries they find themselves in. As opposed to the Nazi fascist divide and rule that is not only sitting back and laughing but actively engaging in funding both sides.

I do know one thing, the Mexica movement is sadly mistaken if they think these Nazi's are going anywhere. The Nazis have already announced they're building the camps. Why would they build things if they don't plan on using them. Seems to me escalating the debate and counter-debate until things break down into chaos plays right into their hands.

[sandnsea]

16. I must point out

Money exchanged hands. $15 million with the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalogo, along with $3 million owed to US citizens by the Mexican government. Another $10 million with the Gadsden Purchase.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

10. That was right after "natives" "took" the land from chimps with clubs.

Who "took" the land from chimps without clubs.
Who "took" the land...

[IsItJustMe]

5. Actually Mexican are a mixture of Native Indian and Spanish. Maybe it's

a irony that the natives (to some extent) are reclaiming what belonged to them to begin with. And there a certain parts of Mexico where the people are close to, if not 100%, native.

[Erika]

6. Exactly Look at the Pueblos in New Mexico

They were established as villages long before Columbus ever "discovered" America. The people were thriving.

Sante Fe still has it's Spanish government building open as a museum. It was established long before "European Americans" discovered New Mexico.

Anyone who doesn't think Hispanics have a legitimate claim to all the Southwest is not facing reality.

[QC]

7. Spaniards are Europeans. n/t

[Erika]

9. You have a point indeed. But

they were not the anglicized version of the New world who formed this country and were our founding fathers.

There were no Perez's, or Martinez's, etc. that declared our independence or who were considered our founding fathers.

[XemaSab]

15. I don't think any one race has a claim to anything

to the exclusion of another race.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

17. Maybe we should all return to Africa - where mankind first evolved

I think there was a program on the National Geographic Channel a few years ago documenting the excavations in a cave in Chile called Monte Verde where remains are older than the land bridge between Asia and North America. The human remains suggest a Melanesian or Polynesian culture that came to the Americas by the ocean. The art associated with the cave displayed very violent encounters with other tribes and the scientists thought perhaps that these early Melanesians were wiped out by later-arriving Asians. They also traced the DNA of people living today in Tierra Del Fuego who are of a different racial type than any Native Americans on the continent and which resembles more the DNA of Pacific Islanders. And I have read about very old finds in Baja California as well as in Brazil where the art and the skeletal remains don't resemble any Native American vestiges.

This proves nothing and we'll probably never know for sure. The fact is, the Asians who crossed the Bering Strait conquered other people along the way and originally came out of Africa. The Spaniards who conquered the Native Americans in what is now Mexico conquered other people along the way and originally came out of Africa. Their ancestors were probably originally next door neighbors, running from the same lions on the same African savannah, many tens of thousands of years ago. The Spanish massacred Indians and the Mexicans also abused the Native American population. The U.S. did a lot, lot more to their own Native American population, which to me is an undying shame and horror of history. The unfortunate history of mankind, whether it's the Aztecs who enslaved entire tribes of other Indians, or Europeans, or Arabs, or any race or culture that has endured on this planet is that there have been wars of conquest and theft of lands. I truly feel ashamed for what has been done to Native Americans. But I don't think in this hopefully more enlightened age of mankind that blood type, race, or origin should determine who lives where. I don't believe in any privileges accorded to racial purity, whether its a racial purity of La Raza or of the so-called Aryan race, or any other. I don't even think there is such a thing as a pure race, nor does the subject even interest me.

What does interest me and what I hope for is that all working people everywhere will unite against the true enemies of the people, the mega rich who are dividing us, leading us with a flag in front of our noses, both in Mexico and in the United States. I hope one day there are no more borders, no more passports, and no more flags to die for. I would advocate a type of confederation between Mexico, Canada, the U.S., Central America, and the Caribbean. But it has to be fair and allow free movement and fair working conditions for all people in and to all places.

I guess I completely agree with you, but just took too many words to express it.

[XemaSab]

18. Sounds good to me!

:toast:

[Joe Fields]

11. You sound like you've been reading Michelle Malkin