Florida: Confederate flag license plate? The crazies are back again.

[Cyrano]

The Florida division of Sons of Confederate Veterans are pushing for a state license tag that says "Confederate Heritage" and has four flags on it, the best known and most hated, right smack in the center.

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/state/content/state/epaper/2006/04/01/m1a_xgr_csa_0401.html

(This online version of the story doesn't have a picture of the tag, but the actual newspaper does.)

And then there's the good ole' "Confederate Heritage" crap in bright red letters right across the bottom of the plate. I guess we're supposed to think of rocking chairs on mansion porches, mint juleps, and looking out at the cotton fields where happy "darkies" are grinnin', singin' and dancin'.

Well, if I remember right, their "heritage" includes slavery, lynchings, and about 600,000 dead Americans because of the war they started and then followed up with an evil band of thugs called the KKK.

Pushing the "heritage" bullshit aside, what we're really talking about here are bigots who want to get into other people's faces. If this license tag ever gets approved and the guys with white sheets start putting them on their cars and pickups, Florida will be about as safe to drive through as Baghdad.

(Update: Link has been corrected.)

[rzemanfl]

1. If I were insuring cars in Florida, I would not be happy about this

plate.

[marmar]

2. As the country continues to diversify...

immigration becomes a bigger and bigger issue, anti-Arab paranoia continues to grow and the economy tanks, especially for many of those "heritage" types, I just expect to see more and more of this kind of stuff. Civil War Redux.

[shenmue]

3. The war is over.

The confederacy lost.

Most countries are ashamed of their civil wars.

You don't see people in England ride around with bumperstickers saying "I'm a Roundhead" or "I'm a Cavalier."

Can Florida please just secede? Thank you.

[malaise]

5. Not sure the war is over

the divisions being spread on right wing radio may be the beginning of the next civil war. The last one was over slavery - this one may be over slave labour and immigration.

[noahmijo]

7. I doubt it will be over immigration the neo-cons and the like NEED the

brown people to do cheap work for them so they can increase profit and not make their stepford wife stay home and clean the house and cook for them. Plus wait and see what America does if we over do see a day where illegals aren't picking their fruits and vegetables for them and they have to pay $10 for a head of lettuce.



Nationalism and Religion will start the next civil war.

[Virginia Dare]

34. That's what you Yankees think....

by the way, the War was re-fought and the South won--just check out the so-called leadership in this country.

;-)

[tom_paine]

53. Some us Yankees have known and recognized this from the start

I always say, whether it be the Fundamentalist Muslim Fanatics plotting to kick the Crusaders out in the 1200s or the Fundamentalist NeoConfederate Fanatics plotting to turn America into Amerika in the 2000s, "When people threaten you for 150 years straight, THEY MEAN WHAT THEY SAY."

That and: "It's really time to worry when they finally go silent, because that means Crunch Time is near."

Oh my yes, and we now are beginning to see clearly just what level of UnAmericanism the Old Confederacy really represented now that the New Bushevik Confederacy is midwy toward fully eradicating Old America.

In a nutshell: It means monarchy, oligarchy, Big Brotherism and Totalitarianism.

And I suspect, if the Old Confederacy had won in 1865, it would have eventually come to that in the great Confederate-Nazi alliance during WWII (after all, they shared so many racial philosphies).

[RagingInMiami]

43. It's not all Florida

I've been saying for years that South Florida should secede from the rest of the state.

[Dudley_DUright]

4. Broken Link?

[Cyrano]

6. Link has been corrected. Try it now.

[fasttense]

8. I think the Mexican Reconquista Movement should wave

the confederate flag when they march in the US. It really stands for secession from the Union and since they want to re-conquer and take over the southeastern states aren't they really advocating secession? They obviously don't want it to be a part of Mexico or they would be marching in Mexico. So the confederate flag would be a more appropriate symbol to wave than the Mexican flag.

[Solo_in_MD]

14. Mecha and the Star & Bars

What a great combination

[darkmaestro019]

9. I don't know whether to laugh or cry when I see those nasty things in OH

I just wanna grab these tards and go YOU ARE NORTH OF THE MASON DIXON LINE. Forgive my metaphor, but the obvious one would be some dolt waving a Nazi flag in Israel.


A) You lost.

B) You are in the "country" you lost to!

Woohoo! We're number two! (facepalm)

[ladjf]

19. I have always had a high regard for Ohio. However, they same

to be going nuts there. In particular, the Blackwell scandals of 2004 may have been the edge that the Bush administration needed to steal the election again. Where have all the good people from Ohio gone? (And that includes good Republicans)

[Paladin]

10. Damn It To Hell: Another Confederacy Thread

Everybody brace yourselves for the usual suspects, the ones who seem to regard "Gone With The Wind" as holy writ.

For the umpteenth time, I suggest the establishment of a "Pointless Civil War Arguments" forum where threads like this one can be directed. They are an all-too-frequent source of animosity and embarrassment here at DU.....

[QC]

11. Yeah, but it gives the usual crowd an opportunity

to bash Southerners and declare how wonderfully virtuous they and their part of the world are, and that's really the purpose of our daily confederate threads here.

[theHandpuppet]

12. Little known points of fact (debunking stereotypes)

There were hundreds of thousands of Southerners, both black and white, who fought with the Union Army. This is also part of Southern heritage but one that gets largely ignored.

Here is the story of just one such regiment, the 1st Alabama Cavalry: http://www.1stalabamacavalryusv.com/loyalist.asp

[Devlzown]

17. My great great grandfather was in the Union

Army and he was from Tennessee. I also have other relatives who fought for the south. I've often wondered if they were ever on the same battlefield fighting against one another.

[Yupster]

30. There were large areas of the south

that were not in favor of secession.

Generally they were the higher elevation areas where small farms were all that was practical and therefore slavery didn't make any sense.

The main areas were Western Virginia, eastern Tennessee and Western North Carolina.

There was a Civil War within the Civil War between the flatland Johnny Rebs and the Billy Yanks up in the hills. The Confederates named them "Hillbillies" and the name has stuck ever since.

Even Littler Known Fact : There were many northerners who fought in the Confederate Army. The most famous was probably General Pemberton from Pennsylvania. He was the Confederate commander who surrendered Vicksburg.

[ladjf]

15. What was the virtue of starting the Civil War?

(I'm from Mississippi in case you are thinking that I'm a Yankee.)

Then, as now, fantasy thinking by Southerners led the Country into a disastrous war.

After the Civil War of 1860, the Federal Govt. did a terrible job of reconstruction.

After the current Civil War, which the South and it's allies , is currently winning,but, will ultimately lose, I hope that the Federal Govt. will take statutory steps to assure that the entire United States will never again be dominated by whims of the least educated portions of the Country.

[Clark2008]

54. LOL!!

Good one, QC. :thumbsup:

[Paladin]

57. Gee, I Thought The Main Purpose Of These Threads.......

....was to repeat, ad nauseum, the notion that the Civil War wasn't caused by slavery, said notion dating from the 1950's-60's Southern backlash against the civil rights movement.

We need a separate thread for this stuff......

[ladjf]

13. The "Confederate Heritage" is that the South started the

bloodiest war in our history. Then, as now, the majority of the white Southerners
were if favor of actions that cost them dearly. Only a handful of cities in the South voted against secession. Southerners felt that their superiority with guns would allow them to rout the "yankees" in three months.

(I'm from Mississippi.)

[QC]

16. I'm not sure that a majority favored secession.

There was quite a bit of shifty dealings going on at the state secession conventions. It's an interesting story, for anyone who can be bothered to read about it.

Moreover, the plantation class was not universally loved, and there was considerable conflict between them and the working class. Here are two excellent books on the subject:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0813025702/sr=8-2/qid=1143901649/ref=sr_1_2/103-3697597-7214244?%5Fencoding=UTF8

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0820320331/sr=8-4/qid=1143901649/ref=sr_1_4/103-3697597-7214244?%5Fencoding=UTF8

My point, though, was that these threads get posted every couple of days or so and seldom fail to end up as flamewars. They're pointless, other than giving people an opportunity to bash and preen.

[ladjf]

18. QC, I have researched the 19th history of the Southern United

States rather thoroughly. To my knowledge, the only cities that voted against secession were Vicksburg, Natchez and I believe, New Orleans. This was because they felt that their commercial interests would be harmed by the war. (and they were correct).

Various rabble rousing Southern bigots, particularly Jefferson Davis, toured the South, fanning the flames of war with the same type of rhetoric we hear now days. It was sad to read the speeches and know that the people were being led to their deaths and utter devastation.

For me, as a historian, I've had unusual perspective and "living through it" twice, once in 19th Century via study and the second time in the 21st Century via current events.

Although it may sound as though I'm taking sides against the South, the fact is that I'm a determinist. I don't blame anyone for what the do. I presume that they are responding to their challenges in accordance with internal decision making processes that have nothing to do with virtue or vice, only consequences that may be interpreted as good or bad depending on one's value system.

In hind site, it's easy to see that starting the civil was a terrible mistake. It wouldn't have had good consequences for the South even if they had won the war. It was a dumb idea fueled by irrational and subjection thinking. But, the fact is, any objective person would have known better than to start the war. (just like now)

[QC]

21. Given your interest in history, you will definitely want to take a look

at those books. They're excellent, and they tell a story that has too seldom been told. It was class conflict that finally brought down the confederacy.

And I'm certainly not a sympathizer to the confederate cause. I see it as just another example of the rich sending everyone else out to die for their money. Having said that, I do consider threads like this one pointless, because they are generally pretexts for flamewars, and I see no point in pissing off fellow Democrats just to refight a war that ended more than 140 years ago.

[ladjf]

36. Good thinking.

Your point about the rich sending everyone else out to fight their wars is particularly relevant to current events. In the American Civil War, the rich men did, at least, go off to war as well as the middle and lower income. It's almost amazing that the rich were able to persuade the others to help fight for the right to own slaves.

I live in Woodstock, Ga. and I see signs all around me of middle and low income people enthusiastically backing the Republican agenda when in reality, that agenda is depriving them of their rights, their jobs, their health insurance and many other things. The Republicans have skillfully staked out such "hot issues" as prayer in the schools, family values, no gay marriage,
strict police , and the famous "tough" on terror position. We know, of course, that just because the Pubs have claimed these positions, there is zero substance to their claims.

The most difficult contradiction for me is the charismatic religious group seems to have drifted 180 degrees from the teachings of Jesus. (I'm not religious. But, I can read.) they support world domination, torture, murder, capital punishment, the non-protection of poor, aged and infirmed. How to they claim that they represent a religion based on love, all while they are busy trying to dominate the world? I don't get it?

Thanks for the book recommendations.

ladjf

[QC]

40. Class is the big untold story in American history.

Those two books go a long way toward remedying the problem.

[Yupster]

26. Jeff Davis toured the south

fanning the flames of war?

When are you talking about? What period of time?

Davis was about the last southern senator to leave Washington. He was working on the Crittenden Committee which was trying to avert secession after only South Carolina had seceeded.

When the attempt to compromise failed, Davis went home to near Vicksburg. He did not go to Montgomery where the Confederate leaders were writing their Constitution and forming their government. He stayed home waiting for an expected military commission since he was a West Point grad, had fought in the Mexican War and had been Secretary of War.

Upon notification of his selection as President, he went to Montgomery and got to work organizing his government from scratch, making decisions and appointments.

Once the war started, he was very much a get out of town type of leader. He toured the various armies and went to different cities rather than staying in Richmond. After the Army of Tennessee had problems, he made the long trip to visit them two years in a row to see their condition for himself.

After Atlanta fell, he quickly visited that city as well as the threatened Mobile.

Anyway, I can't picture when you mean saying Davis toured the country spouting war. When were you thinking of?

[ladjf]

38. Yupster. Here is what I know about Davis's political activities

prior to the Civil War.

I got most of my information from reading all of the newspapers of the Vicksburg Evening Post, starting from about 1825 through 1900. Jefferson Davis owned a mansion and plantation on Palmyra. I think it was a large island on the Mississippi River a few miles South of Vicksburg, (I was researching another topic that required that I read the Vicksburg newspapers.

I do not have any information about Davis "touring the South". I was actually referring to others who were active during the years leading up to the war. What I do recall is that I read the text of several speeches that he made in Mississippi, particularly around Vicksburg and Natchez. There was no doubt from the texts that he fully supported seccession. The time frame as best I can recall as I'm not working from my notes, was about 1858 and/or 1859. He must not have been too effective as both Vicksburg and Natchez voted against secession.

Davis had served earlier in the Mexican war and considered himself to be an expert military tactician. I do believe that it was his prior military service in that war that gained him his first notoriety. That's about all I know about him. I want to note that as I was reading contemporary newspapers of that day, I read articles about him from both those who supported him and those that didn't. It seems like most of the books and articles now available primarily were biased in his favor. My feeling as I read his fiery speeches was that I was shaking my head thinking what terrible advice he was giving the people of Mississippi. And that his vanity about his military expertise reminded me that Hitler felt the same way about himself. At least Davis had some leadership experience in Mexico.

I'm from Mississippi. It was particularly hurtful to me, to read about the events leading up to the Civil War (South Carolina, as you stated, was the epicenter of the rebellion, starting back as far as the mid 1830's.) and then following them through all of the pain and misery, including a disastrous reconstruction period.

Had the Federal Govt. done a good job with reconstruction, the events of the 20th and 21st Century would likely have better far better than they turned out to be. The complete political and social fabric of the South was wiped out by the war and the reconstruction. Souther whites were mostly excluded from participating in local gov ts. Untrained, uneducated blacks were propped up by the so-called carpet baggers. For example, I recall more than one article in the Vicksburg newspaper from around 1869 where the whites were complaining that the black policemen were beating up white people without due provocation.

The KKK has its origins around 1880. Their activities were focused initially on matters of employment. But, that quickly morphed into full blown racism. It was all about who was going to run things in the South. By the mid 1880's, white politicians began to regain power. As the trend continued, more steps were taken to exclude blacks from government, good jobs and education. The Southern whites in power began to put together the most iron clad systems of disenfranchisement they could devise. That structure essentially remained in place until the civil rights movement in the mid 20th century.

THE political party of the white southerners was the Democratic Party. There was virtually no significant black participation on local, state or Federal levels during the 1st half of the 20th Century. The real initial breakthrough was the desegregation of the military under Truman.

After the success of the civil rights movement during the Democratic administrations, the Southern whites blamed that on the Democrats. The Republicans, seeing this opportunity brilliantly put together the subtle "Southern strategy". Basically, it was an invitation to the Southern whites to switch to the Republican Party, which they did in droves. All that was left of Democratic power in the South after that was the white liberals and blacks, not enough to maintain a majority.

Now we have a situation where the racist elements of the Southern whites, plus the KKK type of people
and the right wing religious fundamentals have been able to pool their voting power, coupled with the criminal activities such as happened in the 2000 and 2004 elections to the point where the least educated and the least enlightened component of the American population has actually taken over the government and is well into the process of trying to conquer the world. If it weren't such a gruesome spectacle, it would be funny. How did those idiots pull that off?

Well, that's the rest of the story and this post is too long and rambling as it is.

[Yupster]

49. I don't mind the long reply at all

I enjoy talking history. I'm an ex-history teacher and textbok author and miss the history discussions.

If you have an interest in Davis' life, let me recommend a recent biography that I think is the best. "Jefferson Davis: American," by William Cooper.

I'd also suggest you might be interested in the Crittenden Committee. It was named after Senator Crittenden of Kentucky who took Senator Clay's seat, the Great Compromiser.

Crittenden tried to continue Clay's role by setting up a senatorial committee after Lincoln's election to try to keep the southern states from seceeding. At that point only South Carolina had left. On the committee were the best known senators, Davis, William Seward, Stephen Douglas, Robert Toombs.

While most southern politicians had given up hope of saving the union and gone to Montgomery, Davis stayed in Washington trying to keep the nation together, but in January Mississippi seceeded, and Davis went home. He was certainly not one of the leaders of the secession movement. On the contrary, while he like every other southern leader thought secession was Constitutional, he was working for compromise.

As a president, Davis made many mistakes. That is for sure. On the other hand, I can't think of anyone who could have done any better in his situation. Trying to fight a war while organizing a new nation, a new nation built on the theory of states rights is a daunting task indeed.

He was incorruptable, honest, worked incredibly hard, and kept his country together through incredible reverses and losses. He travelled the country much more than Lincoln did, visited the armies when they were dispirited, visited the people after their cities were burned down, and I have no doubt that if his country had the resources Lincoln's did, then his side would have won.

He was a very interesting character of US history. I'd urge people to read his biography.

[ladjf]

50. I accept your authority as a professional historian. My opinions

were gleaned from research on another topic. I did the research in 1965 and my notes are stored.

But, if Davis was opposed to succession, it didn't appear that way to me by reading some speeches he made in the central Mississippi area prior to the war. But, since Vicksburg voted against succession, maybe he was doing things I wasn't aware of from newspaper articles.

[Yupster]

55. It's not that Davis was anti-secession

He believed secession was Constitutionsal and honorable, but was also a radical decision for a last ditch effort if there was no other choice. He didn't think the country had reached that point and was willing to work hard to keep it from getting there.

He was very much a politician, and an adult. The father of his first wife (died) was President Zachary Taylor, so Davis was used to thinking statesmanlike.

Long before the Civil War the south lost its equality in the House of Representatives due to population. In 1848 when California joined the Union as a free state, the slave states lost their equality in the senate.

Both the Whig and Democratic Parties were very careful to keep the balance in the presidency. If the presidential candidate (Whig or Democratic) was a northerner, he always picked a southerner as his VP candidate. Same for if the presidential candidate was a southerner. Then the VP would be a northerner. This equilibrium lasted until Lincoln's election. The Republicans ran as a purely regional party. They weren't even on the ballot in the southern states.

Many southerners saw that as the end. They had lost the House, the Senate, and now if there was to be a regional northern party, they could not win the presidency either. That's when secession looked like the answer.

Davis looked for compromises that would give the southern states some say, but if a compromise couldn't be agreed, I don't have any doubt that he would have resigned himself to secession at that point.

The way it went, the decision was taken out of his hands when the legislature voted to secede.

[ladjf]

59. In case you are interested to read the text of the speeches

that appeared in the Vicksburg Evening Posts, actual copies of the papers for 1858 and 1859 are available at the Old Courthouse Museum in Vicksburg and in the State Archives in Jackson. Also, there are microfilms of the same editions avail abe at the archives. (I heard that this was true. I actually read from the hard copy newspapers bound in six month volumes.)

From your viewpoint, it might be interesting to see the difference between what he was saying in local speeches compared to his positions stated in Washington. The people in the State Archive office in Jackson might be willing to research the four volumes , i.e. 58 and 59, and send you a photocopy of the speeches. They have a website. You might find the speeches by searching their data.

[Cyrano]

20. I didn't intend to start a flame war. It was the story in the paper that

got me going. The paper had a picture, but the link doesn't.

Had I known it was going to get a flame war going, I wouldn't have posted it.

[QC]

22. I didn't say you were, and it's a real news story.

Unfortunately, this is one of the issues that DU's resident flamewarriors make it hard to discuss.

[Yupster]

23. In the states that had popular elections

obviously a majority of voters favored secession or the secession vote wouldn't have won.

None of the secession popular votes were remotely close.

[QC]

27. The books I linked to contain some accounts

of delegates running as loyalists but then voting for secession once they got to the convention. And, of course, most states had property requirements for voting, which pretty much left out the lower class, who did resent the planters. Secession probably did have majority support, but that doesn't mean it was universally popular, and the notion that the antebellum South was free of class conflict comes from the movies, not history.

[Inland]

24. Well, nobody polled the slaves. Just saying. nt

[ladjf]

41. Right. And the same poor and middle class men fought and

died by the hundreds of thousands to protect the right of rich men to own slaves. They are doing it again in Iraq. How is that it is so easy for rich people to persuade those less fortunate to fight and die for the rich all while the rich are stealing from them? Amazing.

[hlthe2b]

25. ROAD RAGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Florida's highways will look just like MADMAX...


How stupid is this?


Now I strongly defend the importance of maintaining the flag as heritage in its appropriate place--museums. And, I would argue strenuously with those who adopt the kneejerk response that they should all be burned. We maintain history so we can learn from history.. Bottom line. As for use on state flags or any official nonhistorical purpose, though, this is insane.

[Deja Q]

28. The South lost 141 years ago. Grow the fuck up, losers.

141 years, sheesh. Talk about stagnating in outdated beliefs...

[ladjf]

45. Yes, they were losers in the mid 19th Century. And now, they

have managed to rig the political system of the U.S. so that they are in charge. In effect, they have won Civil War II. If and when the Republican Juggernaut collapses, and good people are restored to leadership, some serious thought is going to have to be given as to how this could never happen again. I've got some good thoughts about this but, for the sake of brevity, I'll spare you the details.

The fascist corporations have mastered the art of manipulating the less educated masses.

[mondo joe]

29. If such a thing passed and I lived in Florida, I wonder how I'd get

around it. There's no way on earth I'd drive around with that on my car.

[QC]

31. It's apparently one of the optional tags, of which we have a bewildering

array. There are at least 30 of them. You can get the standard tag, which has an orange on it, or one for any of the states colleges, or for any of the armed services, or a "choose life" tag, or tags for any of various fundraising causes, like the Tampa Bay Estuary, manatees, fishing, schools, the arts, children's programs, etc.

Mine has the most adorable little sea turtle on it!

[mondo joe]

32. Ah. Well that answers that. Thanks.

[Scurrilous]

52. Florida Specialty License Plates Index :

http://www3.hsmv.state.fl.us/Intranet/dmv/specialtytags/specialindex.cfm


ENVIRONMENTAL

Animal Friend
Conserve Wildlife
Discover Florida's Oceans
Everglades River of Grass
Fish Florida
Indian River Lagoon
Large Mouth Bass
Panther
Protect Florida Whales
Protect Our Reefs
Protect Wild Dolphins
Save Our Seas
Save the Manatee
Sea Turtle
Sportsmen's National Land Trust
State Wildflower
Tampa Bay Estuary


MISCELLANEOUS

Agriculture
American Red Cross
Aquaculture
Boy Scouts of America
Challenger
Choose Life
End Breast Cancer
Family First
Family Values
Florida Arts
Florida Educational
Florida Golf Capital of the World
Florida Salutes Veterans
Florida Sheriff's Youth Ranch
Florida Special Olympic
Hospice: Everyday is a Gift
Imagine
Invest in Children
Keep Kids Drug Free
Kids Deserve Justice
Live the Dream
Motocycle Specialty
Parents Make A Difference
Police Athletic League
Police Benevolent Association
Salutes Firefighters
Share the Road
Stop Child Abuse
Stop Heart Disease
Support Soccer
U.S. Air Force
U.S. Army
U.S. Coast Guard
U.S. Marine Corps
U.S. Navy
U.S. Olympic
U.S. Paratroopers
United We Stand

PROFESSIONAL SPORTS

Florida Marlins (Baseball)
Florida Panthers (Hockey)
Jacksonville Jaguars (Football)
Miami Dolphins (Football)
Miami Heat (Basketball)
Orlando Magic (Basketball)
Tampa Bay Buccaneers (Football)
Tampa Bay Devil Rays (Baseball)
Tampa Bay Lightning (Hockey)

UNIVERSITIES

Barry University
Bethune-Cookman College
Clearwater Christian College
Eckerd College
Edward Waters College
Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University
Flagler College
Florida A & M University
Florida Atlantic University
Florida College
Florida Gulf Coast University
Florida Hospital College of Health Sciences
Florida Institute of Technology
Florida International University
Florida Memorial College
Florida Southern College
Florida State University
Jacksonville University
Lynn University
New College of Florida
Nova Southeastern University
Palm Beach Atlantic University
Ringling School of Art and Design
Rollins College
Saint Leo University
Saint Thomas University
Southeastern College
Stetson University
University of Central Florida
University of Florida
University of Miami
University of North Florida
University of South Florida
University of Tampa
University of West Florida
Warner Southern College




I count 100 specialty plates.

[Virginia Dare]

33. I saw a Florida tag recently that said "Choose Life"...n/t

[mitchum]

35. Loser rags on a tag

[Beelzebud]

37. Note to South. YOU LOST. Time to move into the present!

[ladjf]

39. Beelzebud, the problem is that if we "move into the present"

we see that the same people who brought is Civil War I have brought us Civil War II. Except that , this time they are winning. The same Southerners have allowed the Corporate fascists behind the Republican Party to literally steal the U.S. Govt. from it's people.

[QC]

44. Southerners don't get sole credit/blame for these people being in power.

If only the South voted Republican, the GOP would be a permanent minority. Wall Street has a lot to do with our present darkness.

[ladjf]

47. You are quite right, just as the 2000 Presidential election was not

decided by just one element of an array of interrelating occurrences. I didn't mean to say that the South alone was responsible. But, by virtue of the political structure in America, the large block of racists Southern whites, the right wing religious groups and the very dim witted, dirt poor, "good ole Souther boys", desperate for validations for the manhood, did supply the fascist corporation directed Republican Party with enough votes to turn the tide. (The "Southern Strategy")

This cartel must be defeated in America is to live again in it's former more glorious image. How that is going to be done is another matter. It could collapse under the weight of it's own corruption. Unfortunately, too many Democratic politicians are counting on this, which isn't the best strategy for the them.

[lpbk2713]

42. Here's a link to a pic of the proposed Florida Stars n Bars tag.

Link: http://theledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060401/NEWS/604010368/1004


And BTW, the related article says a former NAACP president is all for it.


"It is not racist to promote a common heritage," said H.K. Edgerton, former NAACP president in Asheville, N.C., who led the group in a rousing version of "Dixie" before introducing the proposal. "There will be those uninformed individuals who will attempt to categorize this plate in unflattering terms."

[Inland]

48. Which common heritage?

Oh, yeah, the chattel slavery based on race heritage, and the declaring war on the United States to perpetuate it heritage, and the resistance to civil rights heritage, and the republican pander ot all the above heritages heritage, and the desire to piss off decent fellow Americans heritage by making sure they know how little you give a shit heritage. Did I leave any heritage out?

[Yupster]

51. Here's some pictures of

Edgerton a year or so ago.

http://www.geocities.com/tnudc/edgerton2.html

[McCamy Taylor]

46. Can we get a "Celebrate the Haitian Slave Revolt!" license plate?

I am sure the immigrants from Haitii would love to recall the time when their ancestors slaughter thousands of their white slave masters. I will make them feel all warm and rosy inside, and it is such a good thing to celebrate one's heritage.

[Aristus]

56. A thought I had recently on the whole "Confederate Heritage" thing:

In 1862, the government of the Confederate States of America instituted the first military conscription on U.S. soil (The Union followed with a draft a year later). It seems they couldn't get enough volunteers for the "noble cause" they constantly croon about. Many former Confederate soldiers joined the KKK after they lost the war, in order to keep up the oppression of blacks after it was supposed to be ended by the war they lost.

So here's the kicker, in summary:

Confederates had to be drafted into the Army, but they volunteered to be terrorists.

So yeah, Southerners, fly a flag and strike license plates to celebrate THAT. :eyes:

[frustrated_lefty]

58. Note to you

let me see, I'm not sure what labels to use. How about "you leaders of crimes against humanity?" Fuck the natives, you're already spouting shit about...oops...we didn't know the blankets came from people with small pox! We're the GOOD guys! We didn't allow our nation to become the only one on the face of the planet to use nuclear weapons. We didn't choose to let syphilis progress without treatment in a minority population for the fuck of it. We aren't torturing anyone. It's just our flag hanging in the chamber. We really don't like it, though. Even though we let it happen.

You want to go off on bigots who want to get in others faces, drag your ass to the gulf coast and fucking help. Lead by fucking example before presenting self-righteous pompous shit like this.

frustrated_lefty