Rep. McKinney should have been wearing some kind of ID

[WilliamPitt]

I was in the Ford House Office Building last week, and was kind of shocked by the lacadaisacal security. There were two female officers manning the security checkpoint at the door. I went out and came back in probably five times all told, because I was fleeing the Soul-Sucking Meeting of Red Hot Death to smoke. Each time I went out, I had to pass through the metal detector to get back in.

Each time I came back in, the two cops were standing fifteen feet away from the X-ray machine and metal detector, chatting away with their backs to the checkpoint. The didn't even look at me when I went through the machine; I did the routine and piled up my stuff onto the conveyor, sent it through, walked through, and grabbed it. They didn't look at me once. Later, it was two male cops manning the station, and they did exactly the same thing.

I could have walked through that detector with a bag of live wolverines over my shoulder, and the security officers wouldn't have seen a thing. If I were ever planning on doing something dastardly in a congressional office - note to Homeland Security: this is purely a hypothetical scenario, and I am no threat; I own no wolverines - I would choose the Ford House Office Building and enter through the door at 2nd and D SW, because the cops there couldn't give a single shit about doing their jobs.

My point is that these cops are not going to remember 535 faces, in a town where a third of those faces change every two years. I'm amazed the ones I saw last week remember how to put their pants on in the morning. I was devoutly unimpressed, and so Rep. McKinney would probably do well to wear some form of identification the next time she tries to get into a building.

It actually heartens me to know that she got grabbed after blowing past security; at least one of the cops on that force has a pulse, and can do more than chat about what was on TV the night before. Had McKinney been walking into the Ford Building, the cops there wouldn't even have twitched. I don't condone any brutality or inappropriate contact, of course. It's just, IMHO, good to know the cop she dealt with isn't a potted plant like the ones I saw the other day. It's not like these cops have an important job or anything.

[acmavm]

1. I really want to see what kind of reaction you get because when

anyone else suggests that maybe, just maybe she was at fault, watch out. I want to see if they'll flip you the shit they do the plebian members of DU. Of which I am one.

[WilliamPitt]

2. My scenario is just a small slice

of what goes on vis a vis security in all the congressional office buildings. The security at Rayburn, for example, is much better. But Rep. McKinney, whom I respect to the skies, goes in and out of these places daily. She should know who and what she is dealing with, I think.

[merh]

13. She was wearing a badge according to this article

Don't you research things?

In her statement, McKinney said most members of Congress expect Capitol police to recognize them. "I was urgently trying to get to an important meeting on time to fulfill my obligations to my constituents. Unfortunately, the police officer did not recognize me as a member of Congress and a confrontation ensued," she said. "I did not have on my congressional pin but showed the police officer my congressional ID."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/03/29/AR2006032901981_pf.html

[question everything]

20. Obviously there is a difference between a "pin" and an 'ID'

and it seems that the pin is the one that allowing members of Congress to by-pass security.

And, no we should not expect anyone anyplace to be allowed to bypass security because they should be recognized.

Exactly the opposite. Just because someone is a big shot does not mean that someone should not go through the same procedures.

[merh]

31. The premise of Mr. Pitt's thread was that McKinney should have shown

ID, she did.

And for the security officials to say that it is the "pin" that gets folks admission is just ludicrous.

That lapel pin can be forged, just as a drivers' license can be forged, facial recognition is vital to verify the identity of the pin wearer. Given that the number of African Americans in congress is much less than the 535 as alleged in an earlier thread, face recognition by the capitol police should have been easy and I bet you will find that it is a requirement of the job.

And yes, members of congress are given preferential treatment. If you don't believe me, you are living in another reality. They can get out of subpoenas, they can do all sorts of things when they are busy making laws.

I personally cannot believe that the debate is not about the outdated security measures at the halls of congress. In theory, iris recognition devices would do away with the need for the pin, the badge and the cop.

:hi:

[carolinalady]

36. But did she show her ID before or after she whacked him? That

is not clear.

[merh]

43. No, what isn't clear is, did she "whack" him as you put it, before

or after he grabbed her? What isn't clear is, did he grab her from behind and did she know who it was that was grabbing her.

If I am grabbed, I am going to reflectively react, probably swinging in self defense.

Have you seen a video of her actions? Were you there?

[carolinalady]

dupe sorry

[carolinalady]

49. I am not criticizing her actions-in fact in Skinner's thread I said

it may be understandable. It was reported that she hit him somehow. My question is did she show her ID before or after she hit him? If she showed her ID as she was going through the checkpoint, then the cop was dead wrong to put a hand on her and detain her. If she did not because she was not wearing it or did not hold it up to let him see it as she was passing through, them she was wrong. Why are you trying to make this something that it isn't?

[WilliamPitt]

40. "the outdated security measures at the halls of congress"

Agreed.

[merh]

126. I think we just made DU history.

We found something we can agree on.

[MADem]

There is--the staffers have them, and they have to go through the detector

UNLESS they are accompanying the "pinned" member.

You'd be shocked at how different alot of those legislators look in person. I can recognize Orrin Hatch on TV, but I once sat ten feet away from him and didn't realize who he was for about ten minutes. It was only when he opened his mouth and started talking that I realized who the hell he was...

[WilliamPitt]

22. "...but showed the police officer my congressional ID."

Does that mean she was wearing it, or does that mean she had it in her bag or pocket?

Big difference. The cop can't see through handbags or pockets.

[MADem]

54. She might have had it on a lanyard

You see folks strolling around with their badges (they DO need their steenking badges!) around their necks...

But the pin would have avoided the issue.

[WilliamPitt]

61. If she had her badge on, the cop was at fault.

[MADem]

103. By badge, do you mean the laminated ID, or the pin?

If the cop was new (relying on an old photo for recognition) or she only had the badge, and not the pin, it might have been an honest mistake (even with a badge, you still have to go through the drill unless you are with your principal). I've noticed that the Cap Police don't go out of their way to be jerks (of course, you've noticed that they are a bit lackadaisical!) but I haven't been wandering those halls in recent years at all.

Well, the new Chief will get to deal with this situation--wonder if Terry Gainer is glad he's gone?

[Catrina]

56. Maybe the cops you encountered might have been aroused had you been a

black woman whose hair, as Neil Boortz put it, made her look like 'a ghetto slut' and one that has been very outspoken against this administration. It has been known to happen that way!

This was Neil's excuse for why the cop might have stopped her in the first place. I tend to agree with him, although I imagine he wasn't trying to help Cynthia with his, as he called them, 'controversial remarks'. And some here think that kind of thinking doesn't exist!! They don't even hide it anymore.

She showed him her ID, and he let her go ~ if she broke the law, why let her go?

[WilliamPitt]

69. Honestly

the new hairstyle may well have led to his inability to identify her. It does not look at all like the way she used to wear her hair, so the cop may have seen the new hair and not put 2 and 2 together.

[carolinalady]

23. Showing her badge is not the same as wearing it. There are alot

of people who are assuming she was wearing it. If she was I think she would have said I did not have my congressional pin on, but I was wearing my congressional ID. She did not say that.

[fooj]

25. You beat me to it...looking for that article.

:applause:

[merh]

98. Hey sweetie!

Just look at all the comments. :freak:

Maybe I should have let you post it ;)

And gosh, shock of shocks, failure to research before making a statement. :shrug:

Edited to add ----> :hug: :loveya:

[benddem]

21. But Will

all 435 of them aren't located in one building. You go in the doorway of the building where your office is. After you go through once you can go from building to building via the basement or cat walks. Are we absolutely sure that every white male wears his ID tag all the time???? Last time I was there I saw Sen. Kennedy and Sen Wyden and didn't observe their ID's.

[WilliamPitt]

26. No

but they do go to all the buildings at some point or another. Conyers and Lee don't work in the Ford Building, but were there when I was there. These Reps aren't sequestered in one building; if you have to talk to another Rep or go to a meeting with a committee, you're going to go to their building. So it is natural to assume that all 535 congressfolk have been in all the buildings at one time or another.

[Boredtodeath]

39. But you are leaving out a very important piece of information

There are underground tunnels connecting ALL THOSE BUILDINGS. And using those tunnels means you don't have to pass through security more than 1 time a day - when you intially come in.

Since you're not a regular there, I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt that you have limited knowledge of the tunnels connecting those buildings.

However, there is a way to navigate through the congressional complex without EVER going through security once you are in the building. Just the initial screening as you go to work.

[WilliamPitt]

41. I'm pretty sure

there is no tunnel to the Ford Building; it is a ways away from the Capitol.

[Boredtodeath]

52. Ummmm, hello....so is the LONGWORTH BUILDING

AND the Cannon Building.

You know, in several trips to DC, I've YET TO EVEN VISIT THE CAPITOL. I spent my time lobbying members of Congress, didn't have time to do the tourist tour of the capitol or the white house.

But, I never left the tunnels once I entered the first building for the first appointment.

[WilliamPitt]

58. I'm not sure

what you are saying.

[Boredtodeath]

66. I might suggest, then....

that NOW would be a good time to stop typing.

[WilliamPitt]

73. Heh

I will refuse that suggestion, just to annoy you.

[Boredtodeath]

83. You don't annoy me

But your lack of knowledge is showing.

But, have no fear........it doesn't bother me a bit if you continue to make an ass of yourself.

In fact, I find it amusing.

[devilgrrl]

10. I won't give him any trouble as his comments cover more area...

than outright stating that she should be arrested. The others threads were flamebait (mine included) plain and simple.

[acmavm]

80. I wasn't giving anyone any trouble. I meant (sincerely) what I said. I

wanted to see if he would get the denigrating type of response that I, and I may add many other, people who thought she just may have been at fault and should go to court just like we always say the other side should do.

[QC]

3. INCOMING!!!

:nuke:

[proud2BlibKansan]

4. Did you see her statement posted her today?

[WilliamPitt]

5. I did not

Can you post me a link? Thanks.

[proud2BlibKansan]

8. Here ya go

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=816292

[WilliamPitt]

14. "He asked for my ID and I showed it to him"

That isn't entirely clear. Was it clipped to her lapel and the cop missed it? On a clasp around her neck? Or was it in her bag, or a pocket, and she had to take it out to show him?

Big diff. If the ID was prominently displayed upon her person, then the cop fucked up. Otherwise, she should probably have the thing visible in the future.

Thanks for the link.

[MADem]

68. Not if the cop did not recognize her, though

Staffers who wear IDs still have to go through the detectors unless they are accompanying the member. It's the PIN that gives you that "no hassle" magic!

[rpgamerd00d]

6. I can't believe people are defending her so adamantly.

Its really a simple concept.

Cop is hired to prevent unauthorized people from entering. He is given authority to physically detain anyone unauthorized that tries to get into the building. Even use deadly force if necessary.

Someone he doesn't recognize and who does not have proper ID sneaks past the metal detector.

He yells stop THREE TIMES as he chases her, being ignored. He then steps directly in front of her, making contact and physically stopping her. All 100% SOP and 100% legal and valid.

Then she makes a mistake and shoves him.

You can try to portray this as something else, but all that will do is likely earn you a "moonbat" comment from me. And I'm pretty frigging Lefty radical.

[Catrina]

65. How do you know all this? Do you have a link? I've read her statement

but I haven't read anything about 'three times' 'chasing her' or any of the other details you posted. Can you post a link that supplies this additional information? Are you a cop, btw?

[carolinalady]

77. link Wapo:

By one police account, she walked around a metal detector and an officer asked her several times to stop. When she did not, the officer tried to stop her, and she then struck the officer, according to that account.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/03/29/AR2006032901981_pf.html

[Catrina]

88. Thank you I hadn't seen that. It is very different to her account and the

cop has not been identified yet. So we have two different accounts, hers and his. I hope there's video that will settle it.

[WilliamPitt]

95. I kinda want to see the upheaval

that comes when the cop is identified as being African American. The four I saw the other day were all African American, so it is more than possible this cop was, as well.

A lot of the self-righteous horseshit being thrown against the walls around here will go swirling down the spout at that point.

Just sayin'.

[johnnie]

107. I thought the same thing

But she made a point of saying "this white cop" grabbed me or something like that. I don't have the link available, but I know I read that.

[mike_c]

7. full disclosure: I own wolverines, and I know how to use them....

I'm just sayin'.

[CoffeeCat]

24. Are these eeeeevil wolverines? Or just regular wolverines?

Just wonderin.

;)

[mike_c]

32. the last thing you see before the wolverine hands you the metal detector..

...in little pieces. :rofl:

[Gormy Cuss]

9. You're a white male, right?

Why would they bother stopping you?
As for being able to ID the members of Congress, remember just how few African-American females there are in Congress and then tell me it's too much of a challenge to recognize them on sight.

I've gone through security at Federal buildings in DC pre-9/11 and the security personnel were more vigilant than the ones you described, but they were federal employees. I wonder if the ones working the doors now are just bodies from the lowest bidding subcontractor.

[WilliamPitt]

17. It isn't about an African-American congresswoman

How many African-American women are there in the DC/Maryland area? Hundreds of thousands, I'd assume. If they don't recognize her, they don't recognize her, period. It doesn't have anything to do with her being a congressman, or a woman, or African American. It has to do with her walking into a Federal building, blowing past security and not having any ID on display. If I did that, I'd expect to get kneecapped...and yes, I am a white male, as if that has anything to do with it, either.

[carolinalady]

30. Holy crap Will-I thought you were African American. I remember

a hearing or something that you were at and blogging live. I guess I assumed you were someone else there. I just remember thinking that it was you while you were blogging away!

[Aimah]

63. That's not something that any of us can confirm yes or no.

We don't know how long he's worked at that building. We don't know how many times he's seen her. I don't even know the race of the officer (if it's been posted I've missed it and one being black doesn't mean that they aren't biased against others of the same race) We can't claim it to be some form racism and we can't detract it either.

She should have had her pin to make it easier to get into the building.

Did everyone who entered the building and went around the security check have on their pin?

Does this officer require the pin from everyone that enteres the building trying to get around the security check?

If he's seen her long enough to recognize her, the fact that she changed her hair is a lost point. If he can't recognize someones face he shouldn't be in that line of work.

I read an article where she spoke about being detained even in the parking lot. I haven't read anything about any incidents with her lately but I wouldn't be surprised if things here and there have happened. I'd like to hear all of the facts before making any judgments either way. The real point to me is, this isn't that big of an issue so could we get back to things that are important.


http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1077/is_n5_v52/ai_19201534

[Catrina]

71. We won't know that until we know something about the cop, whose own ID

is not being revealed for some reason. I think there is always the possibility of it being because she was a black woman ~ there's also the possibility that he was freeper cop and DID recognize her!

There are all kinds of possibilities. None of them facts, including much of what has been said about the whole incident by people who weren't there, don't know her, don't know the cop and are merely theorizing, mostly based on their own prejudices, political viewpoints, or personal experiences, none of which have anything to do with the incident itself.

[Gormy Cuss]

99. It has everything to do with her position and her race.

If a white freshman Congressman wasn't easy to ID, that'd be different. There are a lot of those, although at this point they've all been around for a while. There are only a handful of MoC who look even remotely like her and yes, any half-way competent security guard should be able to ID her visually since they apparently rely on that and a lapel pin. I have worked in reception areas of companies with at least 300 employees and yes, within a few weeks I knew who belonged and who didn't based on looking at them. It isn't that hard. I had a copy of the employee IDs in a reference book and could look up the photo for anyone who I didn't recognize, something that happened when staff from branch offices came into town or for new hires.

As I said, I've also entered 'secure' Federal buildings in DC pre 9/11, post the Murrow building bombing. The guards knew who worked there and waved them around the metal detectors as long as the employee flashed a badge. The guards didn't inspect the badge, just glanced at it. Everyone else was stopped, ID'ed, had their stated destination confirmed either by the master appointment log or a phone call to the appropriate department, then they were issued a temporary badge for the day. When we had week long meetings we went through the same procedure every day. Some of my colleagues visited these buildings as frequently as once every other week and the guards would greet them by name and still insist that they went through the security routine.

The real problem is that MoCs are allowed to blow by security at all. There have been incidences in local governmental buildings where elected reps came in with guns and shot themselves or others, so it's not like it's unthinkable that a MoC or accompanying staffer could do the same.

[kenny blankenship]

11. No! She should be waving the Mexican flag!

[proud2BlibKansan]

18. Best response yet!

ROFLMAO
:rofl:

[dailykoff]

12. Hard to believe this was an innocent mistake.

Unless you think putting "Edward M. Kennedy" on the no-fly list was also accidental.

Supposedly there's a terrorist with the same name. Sure there is.

[senseandsensibility]

15. Could it possibly be because you're white?

I thought I'd just beat everyone else to the punch. Although I'm not necessarily a supporter of McKinney's actions, there is that element. We can't just ignore it. And to me, it seems like there is enough blame to go around.

[WilliamPitt]

28. Jesus

DC is one of the most African American cities in the country. That means there are hundreds of thousands of African American women in the city and surrounding areas. That means if the cop didn't recognize her, she was to him just another face. This "She's black" thing doesn't fly in such an AA city.

[senseandsensibility]

37. I'm a westcoast native

and I admit I know nothing about DC. Well, I was there once in the seventies as a child, and I do remember it being almost totally African American even at that time. But I wasn't thinking in those terms. I was thinking that the officers, regardless of their race, have some kind of mental image of who a threat is, or what they look like. It happens. I've had African Americans assume that I'm some kind of goody two shoes because I'm white and conventional looking.

[WilliamPitt]

42. But you get my point

Rep. McKinney, being an African American woman, does not stand out from a crowd in DC.

[pdxmom]

51. In that city and especially during a spring break tourist season,

there is no mental image of a threat. The threats that have happened on those buildings have come in all shapes, sizes and ages. The man who shot the two Capitol police officers in 1998 was a white guy from Montana.

[Boredtodeath]

48. Another omission

If you spent any amount of time in Congressional buildings, you know that overwhemingly the staffers, employees and workers are lily white.

Except for the AA congressmembers and their staff, those AA citizens of DC don't get hired.

[WilliamPitt]

53. OK

But does that mean no AA people ever walk into those buildings? Ever?

[Boredtodeath]

62. After 3 trips in 2 years, I have to say very few

And, sorry, but 14 AA female members of congress should be recognizable even to a newbie.

Hell, just a little time watching CSPAN and I can recognize every one of them. Even WITH Cynthia's new "do."

So, one has to wonder if half the white congressmen took off their cheap hair pieces and showed up to work bald one day, would THEY be accosted by a guard?

I'd lay 2:1 odds that wouldn't happen.


on edit:
changed typo of 4 AA women to 14 AA women

[Gabi Hayes]

16. uhhhh, how about 14 faces? fourteen black female faces?

this is stunning

they also had a PICTURE of her posted, so they'd RECOGNIZE her

jesus

this smells, friends and neighbors

[WilliamPitt]

19. How many African American women are there in the DC/Maryland area?

If he didn't recognize her, he didn't recognize her. That means hers was one face out of thousands...and belonged to a person who was skipping security.

[Gabi Hayes]

29. jesus...it's their JOB to recognize members of congress...SPECIFICALLY

her!

http://www.hillnews.com/thehill/export/TheHill/News/Frontpage/033006/news3.html

read this, then tell me why they can't do their job, after being put on notice

[WilliamPitt]

38. That's the point of my OP

Yeah, in a perfect world, they should be able to recognize her, and all 535 others. But if the four cops I saw last week are any kind of example, that kind of recognition isn't going to happen.

There's the way things should be and there's the way things are. Rep. McKinney, a veteran of DC and these buildings and the security there, maybe should have worn some ID to offset the possibility that the cops at the gate were of the same knuckleheaded breed I saw last week.

[Gabi Hayes]

46. I give up...they don't do their job, in spite of DIRECT INSTRUCTIONS

to look out for her

and spare me the 535

it's FOURTEEN, among which she has her fricking PICTURE posted

if you, of all people, don't smell a big fat republican rat here, I'm waiting for an April Fool's response at some point

[WilliamPitt]

50. I hate to break this to you

but I am not one of those people who sees conspiracies in every corner.

There are, in fact, 535 congresspeople.

There are, in fact, tens of thousands of African American women in DC.

I have been in and out of many House buildings. I have never, not once, seen a picture posted of any House members anywhere near the checkpoints.

[Gabi Hayes]

60. why do you keep saying 535? not a very good argument. it's FOURTEEN

the pictures aren't posted there, of course

they have a central office

hello

one last. were you there? do you know where/if she was displaying her ID?

oh, you weren't?

''blowing past security?''....you know she did that, how?

thank you

why are you posting this without waiting til the facts present themselves in a timely manner?

just curious

[WilliamPitt]

64. Fourteen what?

Fourteen AA congressfolk? Great. Thanks.

In a predominantly AA city, with dumb cops like the ones I saw working the checkpoints, a wise person planning to skip the checkpoint wears an ID.

The news reports say she showed the cop her ID after he stopped her. That says nothing to me. Was she wearing it, or did she have it in her bag or pocket? There is a difference.

But it seems you have outed me as a Freeper mole for offering an opinion. Congratulations. You get the Kewpie Doll.

[Gabi Hayes]

72. what on earth are you talking about? freeper mole?

where'd you come up with that?

and...fourteen black female members of congress

is that so hard to remember?

and why on earth are you relying on news reports at this stage? why don't you wait a few days before pronouncing on this?

and do you ever admit the possibility that anything you might say could be possibly wrong?

I value the work you've done (how could anyone here not?), but why are you rushing to judgment in this case?

I don't believe anything I've heard about this yet, other than the fact that something happened between her and the security guards. why not keep your powder dry until some indisputable facts are in

freeper mole?

happy april fools' day!

[mondo joe]

89. If the only people who ever come through the building were

members of congress you might have a point.

But they're not, and you don't.

[Gabi Hayes]

97. funny! it's THEIR JOB to recognize HER, specifically

they have her picture posted, just so this doesn't happen

do you know that?

I thought not

keep on pontificating, without knowing the pertinent facts, though

wise up

http://www.hillnews.com/thehill/export/TheHill/News/Frontpage/033006/news3.html

[mondo joe]

111. Per your link...

"In 1993, after she complained about being stopped by security guards, Capitol Police posted a photo of her on an office wall so that officers could remember who she was."

So you mean because a photo was posted in an office 13 years ago this officer is charged with recognizing her?

If that photo is still in that office, did he ever see it, and if he did how much does her (at least) 13 year old photo look like her now?

And, on the date of the incident did he get a good look at her as she passed? Did he turn away for a moment and only catch her in profile, or even from behind?

[WilliamPitt]

118. The fact that she has a dramatically different hairstyle now

that in no way resembles that 13-year-old picture probably has nothing to do with any of this, either.

[verse18]

35. You know all those people look alike anyway.

:sarcasm:

She's been a Congresswoman since 1992. You would think the Capitol Police would recognize the people they're hired to protect.

[WilliamPitt]

45. Yeah, you would

You'd also think they'd pay attention to people passing through security in the Ford Building. They didn't, at all.

So.

[verse18]

74. But we're not talking about the Ford Building

We're talking about a building that McKinney was in and out of on a regular basis.

Racial profiling is a real thing. Many people of color understand what McKinney went through because they have likely experienced it themselves.

[Gabi Hayes]

85. but but but in the FORD building they do things differently!

on Mars they do things differently!

[KoKo]

27. Skinner said when he "worked there" that Reps wore "lapel pins." And

then it turned out that for females the "Lapel Pins" were attached to your I.D. Badges and the TRUE STORY IS...that "Congress Critters" attach their "lapel pins" to their "I.D. Badges" and that sort of verifies their pass through. (Skinner worked there under "oldie rules" it seems)

I will find the link if you missed it..but it seemed that McKinney did everything she could as a US House Rep to get through the "Detectors" and yet she was still "pawed or grabbed" by the CAPITOL POLICE...not DC POLICE but the VERY POLICE FOLKS WHO SHOULD KNOW HER!!!

Have you seen Skinner's Post and thread on this? You might have missed it.

:shrug:

[carolinalady]

34. Well if hers is attached to her ID badge, then her admission that

she was not wearing it means she was not wearing her ID either. IMHO.

[KoKo]

93. NO! the original MSM post SAYS.....she "flashed her badge!"

What are you trying to say here. This was a post and thread by our own DU AMINISTRATOR...and you are trying to make this something else?

:puke:

Here's the post and thread...and scan it through to see that McKinney flashed her badge and the comments from a CURRENT person on Capitol Hill! The man "PAWED HER" ...part of the RIGHT WING ATTACK AGAINST DEMS and MEDIA WHO "flag against" CHIMP/EMPEROR! It's a PATTERN FGS!!!!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x813717

[Gabi Hayes]

106. this perfectly illustrates the idiocy of discussing the 'factual' basis

for all the criticism of McKinney's ALLEGEDLY high handed actions

this really makes me sick

why are people so quick to judge her?

it makes no sense, until the facts are in

if she did what is alledged (by whom?)

by all means, send her to Gitmo, or to some CIA rendering facility. they have a nice on in the middle of a lake in Afghanistan, whence nobody has ever returned

[KoKo]

105. HERE..."Mr. Will" Read this for what McKinney gave as credentials...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x813717

[Jigarotta]

33. Cynthia is 'family' to me.

and families stick together.
She has always been a free voice that the pugs don't like much. She spoke brave words about 911 against the junta, way back, and if she happened to transgress 'the law' (what the hell is that anymore when Chimpy can just rewrite it)

So, we have no evidence of anything, just msm saying what we Should have in our minds.

regardless. Guilty or Innocence. She's family. I do not ditch family, ever. for anything.
I'm not breaking the law by that, am I?

[Boredtodeath]

44. Same here

And I am done with these threads.

Clearly, no matter how many times you try to interject the truth, there are people who prefer to avoid it.

[WilliamPitt]

47. I'm not "ditching" McKinney

She's a hero of mine. All the great things she has done have little to do with this, however. My only point is that, in personally observing these cops in DC, I don't have a lot of faith in their acumen. Were I dealing with them as a Rep, and were I intending to blow past security, I'd be sure to have ID prominently on display. You're dealing with stupid people with guns here.

[Jigarotta]

55. How many...

How many African-American women are there in the DC/Maryland area?

--
erm, how many african american congresswomen are there?

1?

[WilliamPitt]

67. Argh.

Never mind.

No, I'll try again.

1. If he didn't recognize her, the number of AA congresswomen is irrelevant. If he didn't recognize her, she was, to him, an AA woman in a predominantly AA city who was blasting past security with no ID badge on display.

2. See #1.

[Gabi Hayes]

82. arg

it ISN'T irrelevant...it's their JOB to recognize members of congress

you read the Hill article

they didn't do their job in this instance

it's their job to RECOGNIZE CYNTHIA MCKINNEY because of what's happened to her in the past

they didn't do that, and they're supposed to. they've been put on notice, posted her fricking PICTURE:

http://www.hillnews.com/thehill/export/TheHill/News/Frontpage/033006/news3.html


• In 1993, after she complained about being stopped by security guards, Capitol Police posted a photo of her on an office wall so that officers could remember who she was.

• In 1995, McKinney reportedly contacted the sergeant at arms after a white Capitol Police officer asked her to consent to a security check.

• In 1996 and 1998, she complained that White House security officials failed to recognize her and did not give her the same treatment as other members of Congress, at one time mistaking her 23-year-old white aide for the congresswoman.

[MADem]

84. Hell, I'd probably greet them every day, point to my pin, say good morning

Officer Fuckup, ask after their families, shake their hands, and introduce myself regularly as Representative MADem!!

Ya never know who might have family in your district!! Gotta gladhand to get those votes!

[Catrina]

116. That's catering to stupidity and ineptitude. I would insist that they do

their job, the job tax payer $$$ is paying for. If they can't, they should be fired. Lowering standards isn't in anyone's best interests.

If the cop was hired to do a job, and part of that job is to recognize Congresspersons, and if he is incapable of doing that, he ought to go. What you're advocating is that Congresspersons do his job for him, not expect more of him and thereby keep the standards as low as you say they are. Maybe that's why.

[mondo joe]

57. Even good people sometimes do dumb or wrong things.

And that's why, if the worst is true in this case, it's so disappointing.

[Jigarotta]

76. no it isn't.

we all disapoint sometime or other. you don't cut the rope for just being human.

[WilliamPitt]

81. Who is cutting the rope?

Not I.

[mondo joe]

86. "Cut the rope"? What the fuck is that supposed to mean?

Are those the only two options? She's perfect and innocent or cut the rope?

Man, talk about thinking in absolutes.

[Jigarotta]

123. There are certain absolutes.

I absolutely will not diss Cynthia, ever for anything - when she has been an amazing brave voice against the BUSHMAN/SYSTEM/PNACers WE ALL HATE HERE?????

don't dilute. do not succumb to some 'maybe she plowed him with a cell phone', to what those fucking Bastards are realling doing to us.
talk about koolaid.

[dailykoff]

59. What if it had been Condoleezza Rice?

Would we be having the same discussion? I don't think so.

[WilliamPitt]

70. You win

the prize for Straw Man of the Day.

[Gabi Hayes]

87. you mean like constantly bringing up the Ford building?

second prize for you?

[WilliamPitt]

90. The Ford Building

is where I saw these cops basically doopidy-dooing their way through the day. I used it as an example of how these cops are not the sharpest knives in the drawer. Pretty straightfoward, really.

[Boredtodeath]

94. But utterly lacking in any realtionship to the issue

Let's see........that's the definition of a strawman argument, isn't it?

[dailykoff]

91. Thanks, but the point is it would never happen

because these "mishaps" only afflict outspoken opponents of the current administration.

[slaveplanet]

75. It's so comforting to know you're on the case

[bpilgrim]

78. she probably was, thats what makes the story even more fishy, for me...

and hopefully folks on her side (supporters, Dem's in gen.) will be demanding the whole story from BOTH sides before accepting the M$M's version 3.0 or worse, pontificating.

peace

[WilliamPitt]

79. If she was wearing her ID, then the cop fucked up

Period.

[KoKo]

109. Why don't you read the original posts about this before you "sound off."

SHEESH! Scroll down to where Skinner thinks you need "lapel pins" but it turns out he hasn't been around there and they've changed the rules and McKinney flashed her badge at the Capitol Policeman. Just scroll down to the Skinner stuff with DU Poster "BoredToDeath" to see what the NEW RULES are for Congress Critters. :shrug: before you shoot your mouth off. :D...much as I :loveya:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x813717

[WilliamPitt]

121. But did she flash her badge

before or after she was stopped? There is a big difference, and her statement does not make that clear.

[bpilgrim]

114. and remember the first story they had out said that she hit'm

she most likely would have been detained on the spot if that actually happend...

i think he talked about the incident and one of the RW wackos in the crowd who heard his one side and hyped side of the story decided to CAPITALIZE the non-incident considering the royal pain in the arse she is to the neoCONs.

i hope you do an article asking the hard questions if the pillory of her good name continues without a FULL accounting.

peace

[Gabi Hayes]

92. hey, billy! this is sapping my precious bodily fluids!

stirring up quite the hornets nest, yes?

[Jigarotta]

96. to Will: direct reply doesn't work?

anyway, I don't know the mechanics here but to Will Pitt:
""My point is that these cops are not going to remember 535 faces""

she is the only black woman in congress... is that correct?

[Gabi Hayes]

101. no...there are fourteen! god, I can't imagine how difficult it must be

to remember the faces of fourteen whole different people!

http://www.senate.gov/reference/resources/pdf/RL30378.pdf

they all look so much alike, though, don't they

[WilliamPitt]

102. *groan*

That is the big straw man in this debate.

I am going to go big, one last time.

CONGRESSPEOPLE ARE NOT THE ONLY ONES GOING IN AND OUT OF THESE BUILDINGS.

IF CONGRESSPEOPLE WERE THE ONLY ONES GOING IN AND OUT, THERE WOULD BE NO NEED FOR SECURITY.

THERE ARE TENS OF THOUSANDS OF AFRICAN AMERICAN WOMEN IN WASHINGTON DC. HER STATUS AS A CONGRESSWOMAN IS IRRELEVANT GIVEN THIS FACT.

THE IDEA THAT A NON-OFFICE-HOLDING AFRICAN AMERICAN WOMAN MIGHT TRY TO ENTER A CONGRESSIONAL BUILDING IS NOT BEYOND THE REALM OF POSSIBILITY.

IF THE COP DID NOT RECOGNIZE HER, AND SHE DID NOT HAVE HER BADGE ON DISPLAY, THEN TO THE COP SHE WAS AN AFRICAN AMERICAN WOMAN - ONE OF THOUSANDS IN DC - TRYING TO ELUDE SECURITY.

*pant pant pant*

[Gabi Hayes]

108. *groan* it's their JOB to recognize her specifically. what part of that

are you not willing to admit?

it. is. their. specific. duty. to. recognize. cynthia. mckkinney.

call it whatever you like

repeat your own strawman assertion endlessly

SHOUT IT OUT for all. it's so loud I didn't bother to read it, btw

doesn't make it correct

why aren't you waiting a few days before you pontificate?

do you have an inside source?

[WilliamPitt]

115. That. Was. My. POINT.

And is why I refer to the cops over at Ford.

From what I saw, they'd have trouble recognizing a peanut butter sandwich if it was sitting in their lap.

YES, it is their job. But it is ALSO their job to keep an eye on people like me entering federal buildings. What I saw the other day tells me they are not wildly interested in doing their jobs.

If they didn't give a shit about manning the security where I was, I would not hold my breath waiting for them to memorize faces.

YES, it was their job. But given what I saw, I'd doubt their ability to do their job in any capacity. Given that, I'd make sure, before I skipped a checkpoint, to be clearly IDed so as to avoid stumbling across their ineptitude.

[Boredtodeath]

110. ANOTHER strawman

"THERE ARE TENS OF THOUSANDS OF AFRICAN AMERICAN WOMEN IN WASHINGTON DC"

And most of them don't go NEAR the Longworth Building, or the Ford Building, or the Capitol, or the White House, or the Cannon Building........and on and on and on........

[Jigarotta]

113. ooo, my reply thing works now!

always learning.

BUT
Cynthia has been around a bit. And I'm pretty damned sure her face should be known as a regular.

and why the hell are you YELLING?

[Boredtodeath]

120. Allow me to head off the coming response......

It will be something along the lines of "but, but, but, she changed her hairdo!"

Of course, we would expect all those bald white congresscritters with cheap rugs to be assaulted when they arrive at their office building with a new "do" wouldn't we?

And, for the record, that wasn't a new "do" on the day this happened. In fact, when Congressman Tom Price introduced Cynthia McKinney at the podium WEEKS AGO she had her new "do." I noticed because I don't particularly care for this look, and think it makes her look 10 pounds heavier than she is.

And, for historical purposes, we should look up the transcript and find the video on CSPAN. Here's a a clue - when Cynthia finished speaking, Tom Price introduced Mean Jean Schmidt as the founder of the "Congressional Truth Squad."

[Boredtodeath]

104. Not the ONLY one - one of 14

but, you know, these strawmen make the argument so much more effective. Add in his lack of knowledge about the process and we have yet another thread making Cynthia McKinney the bad guy.

What WOULD we do at DU if not carrying the water for Karl Rove and Lynn Westmoreland of Georgia?

:sarcasm:

[me b zola]

100. Fact--> McKinney speaks truth to power

Is it really too much to ask to wait for judgement & negative comments until the facts are known? I came to DU after the last sElection, but this begs the question--did the same DUers who are making unsupportive posts re McKinney do the same thing to Kerry while he was being swiftboated? I really don't get it. Why are so many willing to believe the rw version of what happened? We know how Rep McKinney has been targeted & smeared before, why are we not able to give her the benifit of the doubt now?

[KoKo]

119. WHY? Because the DLC RULES..........

you needed to ask. "Shut up" "Keep Quiet" "No Election Fraud" ...Nothing to see here just MOVE ALONG ....and GET OUT THAT DAMNED VOTE for 06...WHEN EVERYTHING WILL CHANGE.. WE WILL HAVE " Subpoena Power!" and DEMS WILL RULE!!!

Hey...hey...hey...DONTCHA GET IT??? IF YOU DON'T THEN F**K YOU!

[bigtree]

112. I wonder if this is relevant to the assault charge

I think that's the most relevant issue here, whether or not she will be charged. The sticking point in that seems to be whether she recognized that it was a officer who grabbed her AND whether she actually intended to strike him, or if it was just a defensive/reflexive act. And, the facts are muddled in the press accounts.

I hope folks don't take your post as an endorsement of her guilt. This doesn't seem to be a post about all of that, just the pin and her responsibility to display it. It's still not clear to me whether she presented her ID before or after the grab.

In the future, I'm certain the congresswoman will be recognized, though she should wear her pin. This could help improve the lax security you describe.

[WilliamPitt]

117. OK, you got me

I've been outed as a racist, sexist Freeper mole carrying water for Karl Rove.

All for saying it isn't necessarily wise to skip security with no visible ID on display when surrounded by incompetent cops.

If any of you on this thread wonder why the rest of this website thinks GD is an asylum for irrational batshit-crazy people who live to fight about what the voices in their heads are saying, look no further than this thread.

:toast:

[Name removed]

122. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bpilgrim]

124. that's right

not for being 'racist, sexist Freeper mole' but for not having the whole story and sounding off.

attacking DU for your error is lame... probably play better in the LOUNGE, though :evilgrin:

peace

[mondo joe]

125. Because no one else has "sounded off" despite not having the whole

story.

Right?

[Gabi Hayes]

127. stop wasting your energy here. if you want to discuss McKinney:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x817103#817185

[Name removed]

128. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[OKNancy]

129. Lock

Time for a lock