Why the Rainbow Flag?

[RagingInMiami]

It would seem to me that if gay people want to be accepted by mainstream America, they would wave the American flag instead. But no, they have to wave that Rainbow Flag as they flaunt their gay pride and demand their gay rights and march in their gay parades.

Actually, the Rainbow Flag doesn't bother me, but I'm wondering if it bothers anyone else. Or does it bother mainstream America?

Or should waving any flag other than the American flag should be limited to certain holidays?

Have any of our gay DUers experienced any backlash because of the Rainbow Flag?

[Rainscents]

1. It's a peace symbol of the world.

This is what I been told. I could be wrong.

[Aimah]

2. I think it's a symbol of their movement.

I'm not gay and it doesn't bother me. I'm not really big on expecting people to fly American flags. Fly whatever you want..we're the land of freedom of speech (well for now anyway).

[Quakerfriend]

3. Yes, you are correct. I'm not gay but, I understand that this flag

represents the 'inclusion of all nations'. My kids went to an 'International School' and they used the same flag.

[RaleighNCDUer]

4. Personally, I believe that the waving of the American flag

should be restricted to particular holidays.

All it does is promote jingoism and flag deification.

Patriotism is shown by a person's actions, not by what flys over his used car lot.

[xultar]

5. Well the flag is kinda tacky. I think that GLBT should have a flag that

goes with the latest fashion trends.

[RagingInMiami]

6. It does tend to clash with certain outfits

[QC]

7. Always looks great with assless leather pants, though. n/t

[RagingInMiami]

8. Depending on the ass

[Rainscents]

9. You guys are very funny! LOL

Thanks for the Laugh...:7

[QC]

19. Every ass is special in its own way.

Well, most of them, anyway.

[RagingInMiami]

72. Especially that one in your avatar

[mondo joe]

18. Just like "Every Bride is Beautiful".

Or something...

[Maru Kitteh]

57. Well, I once photographed a wedding where the bride looked a bit like

Chris Farley.



I am not just saying that because she was big, up close, this unfortunate looking woman really did bear a remarkable resemblance Chris Farley.

And yes, the bulletin board behind her does say "heifer project". I edited that out for them. Can't make this kind of stuff up.

[QC]

66. Her husband is really cute, though. n/t

[tocqueville]

10. why should one wave one's country's flag on such parades ?

it beats me. The question people manifest about has seldom to do with their country as such. It mostly has to with demands from gay rights to more vacations through opposition to build a road etc...

You never see a national flag in a French/European demonstration unlesss the question has to do WITH THE FATE of the nation. Can be opposing a facist presidential candidate, questions of war etc...

The only ones that flag-wave the national symbol ALL THE TIME are the local freepers. Curious isn't it?

And in the name of freedom of expression you are entitled to wave ANY flag, even if waving an enemy flag can be seen as very provocative.

Why should the American flag be the STANDARD on any occasion ? and other flags the exception ?

beats my cartesian enlighted-century educated mind !!!!

[RaleighNCDUer]

34. The waving of national flags in Europe kind of lost its cachet

in the 30s.

Flags make pretty decorations. That's all.

[RagingInMiami]

35. Not during soccer games

[PurpleChez]

11. If you took away the flag, the Freepers would still have plenty

of "reasons" to hate queer folk. More than the flag, I'd say that some of the in-your-face performers in such parades (dominatrix nuns, etc.) turn off norms who might otherwise be sympathetic. But this is one straight-but-not-narrow guy who says "Bring on the Dominatrix Nuns!"

[MADem]

12. I was a clueless idiot for the longest time

Half my neighbors had them, I knew they were gay, but I didn't make the connection. They had to tell me what it meant; I thought they were just charming little springtime porch flags, and they'd swap it out for one with a pumpkin in the fall, and a snowman in winter....

[MountainLaurel]

13. My ex-BF was like that

We were driving on the interstate one day and were talking about them after a pickupmwith a rainbow sticker passed us. He was like "That can't be it, they're driving a truck!" :eyes: :rofl: This was the same guy who once referred to a t-shirt I had as "feminist bullshit."

[MADem]

25. Well, it didn't bother me, I just had no clue!

My neighbors were rather amused--they said if they realized that I didn't know, they would have gotten me one as a gift just to bust my chops--of course, it might have caused me a little angst when we had our periodic dinner parties with some of the military brass; I guess I would have had some 'splainin' to do!

[MountainLaurel]

33. I didn't think it did

And I don't think it bothered him. He just had a very small world view at that point in time. Although I helped in that regard: Took him to his first gay bar. Being a hippy sort, he kept spin dancing into the drag queens. :P

[RagingInMiami]

15. Imagine how the University of Hawaii football team felt ...

after they learned.

[MADem]

26. As long as they're winning, they probably feel jus' fine! n/t

[RagingInMiami]

29. That's the problem

They hardly win

[Jersey Devil]

74. Well, until I read this string I didn't make the connection either

Now I feel like a numbnutz, duh, had no clue. I just thought people were flying these flags because they were colorful.

[mondo joe]

14. For the same reason other flags are used in recognition of cultural pride

or heritage.

But if they wanted to wave that flag while protesting immigration policy they'd be pretty ferking stupid (even though the rainbow flag does not represent a foreign nation).

[RagingInMiami]

16. Says who?

[mondo joe]

20. Says me - my opinion. And in fact I think a lot of what goes on in

gay pride parades is VERY damaging to our efforts.

Dang self inflicted damage.

[QC]

17. Yeah, the thread is premised on a couple of false analogies.

That's why I limited myself to a flippant comment on assless pants.

Personally, I think the rainbow flag is kinda tired, anyway, but maybe that's just me.

[mondo joe]

24. Let's name em - False analaogy #1: the rainbow flag is

analagous to another nation's flag; #2: a cultural festival is analagous to a US policy protest.

All that aside, I think the assless pants are more damaging to the gay cause than the rainbow flag, which has the virtue of appealing to young girls across the country.

[QC]

27. Yep, those are the ones I had in mind.

Here's a better analogy:

We decide to protest a law against gay adoption at the state capitol. Our enemies say that we are far too oversexed and hedonistic to be proper parents. So, we show up on the capitol steps in hot pink thongs and assless pants, accompanied by the strains of that old dance classic, "Fuck Me Harder." Included in the demonstration is a float full of scantily-clad drag queens lipsynching to Cher songs and the ever-popular gogo boy float. Bringing up the rear of the demonstration is a contingent of topless Dykes on Bikes.

A bit counterproductive, don't you think?

[RagingInMiami]

28. That would be like a bunch of Mexicans protesting the immigration law

By downing bottles of Tequila in the street while shooting their six-guns in the air, shouting, "Andale, Andale, Arriba, Arriba!"

[QC]

30. Very true. n/t

[Ioo]

21. As the official Spokeman of Gays in my zip code, I have no freaken idea...

In case you do not know, All gays cluster in zip codes, we elect officials. As there are only 12 of us in my zip, I easily won spokeman, and vice queen, in case the real queen dies, or moves to a new zip...

Really, I have no clue, and I hate it...

[RagingInMiami]

22. Hate the flag?

[Ioo]

23. Yes, it is far to colorful and gay...

[liam_laddie]

31. Believe it's derived from...

the "old" Rainbow Coalition, Jesse Jackson et al's group of all kinds of human beings.
I think it's a terrific use of the spectrum, myself. As to the OP's point about only the
US flag being used, WTF's with THAT? Narrow...

[ToeBot]

32. Like I'd be caught dead sporting that many colors in one ensemble! eom

[ldf]

36. rainbow flag originated in san fran, in 78

http://gaylife.about.com/cs/imagegallery/l/blpridecolordef.htm

inspired by black and hippie movements.

[LeftCoast]

37. Well, I've had four of my windows shot out because of my pride flag.

I think that might count as backlash. :shrug:

[RagingInMiami]

38. That's messed up

Where do you live?

[LeftCoast]

40. San Francisco

You'd think things would be different here. Homophobia can strike anywhere.

The flag's still up though. :)

[RagingInMiami]

41. I figured you were going to say that because of your username

But still, that's the last place I would expect something like that to happen. I hope you're armed. Good for you for keeping the flag up.

[LeftCoast]

43. Ah...the guy was a coward

As soon as we put up a surveillance camera he never came back.

[kweerwolf]

39. Doesn't it seem odd ...

... that this question would be posted in the General Discussion area instead of in the GLBT board where there might actually be some GLBT folks who would answer it?

I guess some DUers just don't like associating with "those people."

Geez, it's no wonder a lot of us don't venture out beyond the GLBT board because of all the thinly veiled homophobia out there among supposedly liberal straight folks.

[mondo joe]

42. Hey, GD has plenty of GLBT regulars.

And some of us don't even visit the GLBT board.

Don't worry - the topic was addressed by actual homosexuals.

[kweerwolf]

45. If they were "actual homosexuals" ...

... I'm surprised they didn't take the original poster to task for using a loaded, Freeper/fundie word like "flaunt."

[mondo joe]

46. Well since I am a big homo you can take it up with me.

And I don't share the "you're a freeper" hysteria.

[Name removed]

49. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mondo joe]

52. Like I'm going to wear heels at 6'2"!

Honestly, if this thread is so threatening to you, I think you might be happier back on the GLBT board.

[kweerwolf]

53. Who said it was threatening?

I just think it's a good opportunity to education some of the straight folks about terminology that can be seen as offensive. There's little enough really honest communication between straights and LGBT, so why not point out that when a straight person use the word "flaunt" in connection with LGBT issues it waves a red flag.

[mondo joe]

54. Because I don't give a crapp about his use of the word, and I understood

his context.

There is plenty of really honest communication.

Relax.

[kweerwolf]

56. Some of us do give a crap.

Just like some of us feel using terminology from "the other side" throws up a barrier to honest discussion.

But I'll have to take your word for it about the context for the word since you spend time on these boards.

[mondo joe]

59. That's why you stay on the GLBT board and think there aren't

enough of us here to respond.

I've had more than enough of seeing DU members here finding racism, sexism, homophobia and more in everything that gets said.

I suggest trying to operate with a bit more good faith.

[QC]

68. Joe, you're just not gay enough!

I am going to ask the Central Committee to revoke your license!

[RagingInMiami]

55. OK, I'll explain it to you since you arrived late

I posted this thread and used the word "flaunt" on purpose, trying to come across as someone who would really have an issue with the Rainbow Flag. You're right, "flaunt" is a freeper terminology, which is why I used it.

So many people on the other thread were making such an issue about the Mexican flag, insisting that the Mexicans waving it are disrespecting the American flag and "swearing an an allegiance" to Mexico, when to me, it is just an obvious example of cultural pride.

Just like to me, the Rainbow Flag is an example of Gay Pride.

Do you see the connection now?

I was born and raised in Miami, which has one of the largest homosexual populations in the country, so I'm not that spooked.

But because I have a lot of gay friends, I sometimes joke about gay issues in the same manner I've seen them joke about gay issues. Obviously, sometimes jokes fall flat when you're unable to hear the tone of the delivery. I hope you're able to see it now.

[kweerwolf]

62. Thank you Raging

I understand where you are coming from and accept that you were joking and intentionally using the word "flaunt." Sometimes I do get a bit sensitive when GLBT issues are discussed in the general discussion areas of DU. We've had discussions on the GLBT board about the homophobia some of us encounter in places like the Lounge and other areas and it sometimes gives us a "hair trigger" for shooting at targets that weren't what the poster intended.

LOL ... I can understand about joking about the same things you've seen your gay friends joke about. It's kind of like the use of the word "queer" which many gay people use the describe themselves, but when it's used by a straight person, there has to be some understanding of context.

Anyway ... best wishes to you.

[RagingInMiami]

63. Or the word "Queen"

Which is constantly used by my gay friends.

[QC]

65. THEN YOU MUST BE A FREEPER!!!!!!!!!!

Surely you must! :sarcasm:

[RagingInMiami]

50. It was sarcasm

[RagingInMiami]

47. I posted this thread and I've posted in the GLBT forum before

Not much, maybe once or twice. But I also figured GD is open to everybody (well, maybe not the Mexicans), so I figured more than a few gay DUers would be able to respond.

And I honestly hope you don't see this thread as an example of "thinly veiled homophobia" because it was a take on the other thread in GD regarding the Mexican flag. I was trying to show that as Americans, we have the First Amendment Right to wave what ever damn flag we want, even the Nazi flag, as some people like to do.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x816765

[mondo joe]

51. Dude, WHO, please tell me WHO, in any of these threads has said

the protesters don't have the RIGHT to wave any flag they like?

I've seen people say it's offensive, stupid, wrong, counterproductive and more - but I haven't seen anyone say they don't have the RIGHT to do it, which is something very different.

Please stop waving that straw man around.

[RagingInMiami]

60. How else should I translate your response to another poster on that tread

The OP is basically asking why should they wave the Mexican flag.

The first responder said:

1. Because they're Mexican, maybe?

(And that particular one can wave any old flag she wants to and it'll be just fine with me.)

Then you came along and said:

6. I had the impression they were US citizens.

My bad.

So what else did you mean by that comment if not to say they basically have no right to wave the Mexican flag around?

[mondo joe]

64. I don't see how you possibly COULD construe it to mean they have

no right. I didn't even address rights there.

You're really projecting.

(PS: What did I mean? I meant I thought they were US citizens, not Mexican citizens.)

[RagingInMiami]

69. All-right, forget about it

But I seriously doubt every single one of them was an American citizen. And even if they do eventually become US citizens, I bet when Mexico plays the US in soccer, they will still root for Mexico to win.

And they will most likely wave a flag if they happen to go to the game.

It's only cultural pride.

[QC]

70. If it weren't for straw men and namecalling,

some of DU's most tireless (and tiresome) posters would be silenced.

[mondo joe]

71. We need a DU Straw Man board.

Nothing but straw man all day and night.

[QC]

73. We already have one -- General Discussion. n/t

[lectrobyte]

44. one of my fundie cow orkers goes nuts when he sees a rainbow

flag or window decal. Says the f--s have hijacked the symbol of God's forgiveness after the flood.

[kweerwolf]

48. Wanna blow your co-worker's mind?

Send him this story from the satirical web site Fake Gay News:

Christian Meteorologists Declare War on Rainbows

A group of conservative Christian meteorologists today announced plans to eliminate rainbows from the earth’s atmosphere. At a press conference following a White House luncheon with President Bush, lead scientist Bret Banger told reporters that his organization, Climatologists For Christ, had declared open season on the multi-colored spectrums of light as part of their commitment to eradicating “the homosexual lifestyle and all weather patterns that reflect it.”

The rainbow flag was adopted by gay rights activists to represent diversity in the gay community during the early 1980s, when gays and lesbians were too busy battling the Reagan Administration’s homophobia and discriminatory AIDS policies to come with a better idea.

Because rainbows are composed of curved spectrums of light that become visibile only when the sun’s light passes through prism-like raindrops during a rain shower, Climatologists for Christ are focusing their efforts on ending all forms of rain.

When reporters questioned how the earth would survive without rainfall, Banger fired back, “The love of God will keep us moist!”

http://fakegaynews.com/index.php/2006/03/christian-meteorologists-declare-war-on-rainbows/

:rofl:

[lectrobyte]

67. Thanks, I needed that.

[JI7]

58. it's not equivalent to a national flag

it doesn't represent a nation but rather a specific issue or movement. i assume it's representation is global and not just limited to the United States.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

61. rainbow flag hurts no one, not blood soaked like US flag

The rainbow flag bothers me less than the stiff flag waving of the
American Flag, a flag that has been soaked in blood of innocents for years.

In our name.

[liam_laddie]

75. Check this link.

<http://www.rainbowpush.org/about/history.html>

[Bluerthanblue]

76. the rainbow flag doesn't 'belong' to any 'group'.....

in my experience and opinion.

It is a symbol of the diversity and harmony that exists between the spectrum of BLACK vs. WHITE.
More than 'grey' against the 'you're either with us, or the enemy' mentality. That there is a rigid inflexible, division between good/bad, right/wrong, us/them.

If we can only see the world in terms of black and white, we miss much of the fantastic beauty it holds. If we can only sing one note, in two octaves- we will never experience the exquisite sound of harmony.

To me, the rainbow flag- (which i had on my old vw van at least 25yrs ago) represented the liberal perspective- that the world is FULL of a variety of views- none being any less important than the other- shove them all together they become black- reflect them back without absorbing any of them they appear white- but looking closely with an open mind there is a beautiful mystery waiting to be discovered.