Why would someone build a wall with todays technology ??

[kentuck]

We have cameras that can be put on a post and can scan a mile at a time. A thousand cameras on top of a post could monitor a thousand miles of border. How much would that cost?

[MichiganVote]

1. Monitor them coming across the border at a million/year clip?

[Warren Stupidity]

12. So instead build an N-billion dollar wall

and watch them climb over at a million/year clip?

Oh I know, we will put soldiers every few yards on the wall and have them shoot anyone who tries to cross. Then not only will it cost some unfathomable amount to build, but we will get to pay a huge cost every year to man the stupid ass wall. All this for exactly what?

[MichiganVote]

41. Ummmm...who said anything about a wall buddy? Tweren't me, thank you

[Richard Steele]

2. Two weeks later, those cameras would be...

...turning up for $50 apiece at flea markets all across the country.

$55 if it still has the post attached.

[Selatius]

3. You need a physical obstacle to slow them down. Then we...

are given more time to deploy border patrol agents to sectors where they are up against the wall trying to get over it.

Of course, if we put cameras as well as a wall in place, it would be even better, and I'd recommend using unmanned aerial drones as well. This will help cut down the necessary manpower required to man the border as the technology would act as a force multiplier.

[Bluerthanblue]

4. I heard someone say the other day, we don't

need to waste time putting up a fence- we just need to place land mines........!!!!

What is bothering me, is the question, paranoid that I am- are 'they' fencing others out- or are 'they' fencing US in??-

I also heard the fence mentioned as one like 'Israel' has...... and coupled with the notion of 'pre-emptive strikes' against others made me feel very uncomfortable....

we are screwed. each day something new comes along to remove any hint of sanity.

[benburch]

8. They are fencing US in.

Understand, this is no longer a Republic. It is a fascist dictatorship.

[Poppyseedman]

Interesting comment about being fenced in

I'm going fishing in Canada in a few months, the people I'm going with told me I need a passport.

I was wondering why I needed a passport to get into Canada.

Boy, was I naive. I need it to get back into the USA !!!!

[Poppyseedman]

5. Maybe if we put lasers on top of those cameras that can scan a mile

Looking at the border doesn't necessarily equate to stopping the flow over it.

You could put a million cameras on the border. It won't stop the first person from coming over.

You might get a nice photo album out of it.

Personally, I'm not opposed to a wall as long as we treat everybody the same trying to get into this country.

[badcau]

9. I have seen on tv

some of the walls have a ladder built on the back side and show them climbing over. I say Mr. Bush, tear down this here wall and let us go both ways.

[EFerrari]

6. Someone who wants to give the contract to his cronies AND

make a political statement to his compassionate base.

[monktonman]

7. This would be the last straw for me

Are people on DU seriously talking about putting a wall along the border??
What about Canada? are we going to wall them out as well?
I'm having a hard time believing what I'm reading.

[ContraBass Black]

13. How is it any more unbelievable

Than all of the suggestions of, "Let's solve the problem with technological wonder X," followed with hundreds of people chiming in, "Yeah! Let's do that!"

[EFerrari]

14. Yesterday there were round up and deportation threads.n/t

[Warren Stupidity]

38. Indeed

So I did some research. It seems that every 30/40 years or so we have a fit of state sponsored anti-mexican hooliganism. Google 'Mexican Deportation' and 'Operation Wetback'. The 'but they are illegal' crowd can put up all the excuses they want, but so far I am not convinced that the bottom line is not really 'they are mexicans and they are different and we are scared of them'.

[Poppyseedman]

17. I normally would be saying the same thing.

But is there another viable solution? I can't think of one that will work to stop the flow of people. I'm open to better ideas.

We have millions of people coming over the border, many are hard working and honest, many are not. The ones that are not, come here to live off our social systems. The social systems are for citizens, not any person that manages to get into this country.

At some point the system break from being overloaded. My brother lives in San Diego. He has seen it first hand.

[monktonman]

21. The sky is falling......

I'm not really thinking about "citizens", my thoughts are more about hungry people.
I'm also not buying into the overloaded system BS.
Maybe if we didnt get into a trillion dollar war and gave tax cuts to the wealthy we wouldnt be bitching about our overloaded citizen only social system.
While I dont know anything about your brothers situation (seems like everyone has "a brother" in san diego) I cant see how anyone who is affluent enough to be posting on this board would be worried about sharing his good fortune with the needy.
( oh and yes; compared to ninety percent of the entire world YOU are wealthy)

[EFerrari]

28. Illegal hunger. I can't wrap my brain around that one. n/t

[Poppyseedman]

31. Affluent isn't a word I would use to describe myself.

...and yes to the rest of the world, I am very wealthy, beyond their wildest dreams.

That in it self doesn't mean, because I live about an average life in America, I should feel guilty or angst.

Just as we can't nor should be the world's policeman, nor should we be expected to take care of the world either.

As for citizenship, You are damn straight we should take care of our own first before we start taking care of the ones who steal into our country.

Just try getting into any other country illegally to live off their wealth, you butt should be either in jail or on the first bus out of town.

[sweetheart]

34. the cycle of disenfranchisement

Some countries send away the people who don't fit in,
much how republicans prefer that "librul's" just leave amurika,
some actively believing that persons should be stripped of their human right
to nationality, amongst so many others. Every country drives away its own
"class" of undesireables, those who don't fit in with its wars, its hatreds
and its racism. And then those persons are the "illegal" criminals you've
just criminalized in your head, except spilled over from another society.

Given this ebb and flow of persons, it creates long term business ties and
big economic well being in the long term.

I grew up in Los Angeles metro, and i've seen the impact of immigration
my whole life as that city exploded with immigrants from somewhere else.
So forever more in my life, as someone who was left their home ground due
to the mass of immigration from elsewhere and that population toxicity,
then i am a criminal everywhere else on earth, because i "steal in like
a thief".

What a load of nose. Taking care of our own first, is taking care of human
kind regardless of their birth. Clearly you've no isssue being so not
christian.... and even as a non-christian myself, i have more faith in
the goodwill of immigrants than your post presumes. Why not love
and embrace our fellow humankind, giving them the knowledge that
in "whoville", we don't need to worry about malthusiast craven decline,
shortages everywhere, its a free for all, there's no law, put up a wall.

[monktonman]

43. wow....you are a sweetheart.

[monktonman]

42. look out.....your true colors are showing

[jwirr]

35. It seems to me that laws could change the system. However,

if an illegal gets hurt falling from a building he is working on and the employer dumps him/her what are we going to do with the injured person?

First we need to start enforcing the employment laws that are already on the books against hiring illegal workers.

Then we need to make employers of illegal workers liable for the costs such as health care, housing, education for minors, etc. and we need to enforce those laws.

Then we need to make a law that does not grant citizenship to the child of an illegal born in the USA and his mother because the child needs her. I understand that many mothers come just across the border to have their babies for this very reason.

I also think that IF workers are really needed the employer needs to document the need, as well as the fact that he/she cannot hire US citizens to do the job, and then pay for transportation for his/her workers to come to work and back home when they are done.

I speak as a woman who has worked in Iowa to pull weeds out of bean rows, brushed roadsides in Minnesota. My sister-in-law followed the migrant routes for years. There are few jobs that we citizens will not do.

[Canadian Socialist]

10. I'm all for a wall...

between Canada and the U.S. .... because if what I'm reading here is anything to go on, I don't want any U.S. far right neo-con wingnuts invading MY country.

[monktonman]

15. so true

[Bluerthanblue]

22. i hope you

don't take my comments to mean that i'm for a fence of ANY kind-

And we should melt down the statue of 'liberty' asap if those who advocate cherry picking 'who' comes and goes in america as to their 'value'- fuck that-

I have ancestors who came with the Mayflower and 'took up ownership' of the earth, which the Native Americans wisely understood that no 'human' will ever truly 'own'-

What we need more than ANY 'fence'- is a LIVING WAGE. There would be very few jobs for anyone looking to come here and make money in american dollars, which in their own nation equates to great wealth, if we required employers to pay a wage that actually was LIVABLE. Yeah, that will cost us some of our extravagent gluttony- but it is the only true answer to the problem of poverty, hoplessness, and the lie that we need workers that americans don't WANT to do- If it costs more to do the job than the job earns, with day-care etc.- that doesn't equate to 'choice'- there is no choice.

Why not a fence to keep companies from sending their job work overseas, to get the cheapest return on their product- why? To save consumers money? or to line their already bulging pockets.

I'm ashamed of this country- more ashamed than i can put into words- We have been fleeced, and the wolves are running the show- all i can offer is the irony of raygun saying "tear down that wall"-

insanity

[EFerrari]

30. Wasn't this wall Pat Buchanan's idea about 20 years ago?

I can't believe that he now looks like a moderate.

[Tesha]

46. Could you please build a little "postern gate", though...

> I'm all for a wall...between Canada and the U.S. ....
> because if what I'm reading here is anything to go on,
> I don't want any U.S. far right neo-con wingnuts
> invading MY country.

Could you please build a little "postern gate", though,
so those of us who know what a Canadian Tire or Tim Horton's
is, and who've actually stood at the corner of Bloor and
Yonge can still come back in to escape the ever-growing
madness south of your new wall?

Please?

Tesha

[Yoda Yada]

11. ...and remember the old David Letterman joke..

....(substituted subject)..

I'd say to Congress: "...and when you write out that check to build a wall along the border...remember...there are TWO "L's" in Halliburton!"


(Note: The ORIGINAL Letterman joke came at the time Congress was debating the $87 biillion issue for the war in Iraq:

Letterman said: " And about the 87 billion dollars for the war in Iraq...I'd like to remind Congress that there are 2 "L's" in HALLIBURTON."

[savemefromdumbya]

25. LOL! LOL!

yes indeed - what doesn't Halliburton do?

[Lostnote06]

16. we know the hi-tech approach exists however

.......I do not believe that a defensive posture is beneficial to our country especially in light of the "reforms" taking place in Latin America.......I believe that we should develop a "Pan-American" highway.......a massive project of this type would stabilize many of the concerns of both sides however it of course would have flaws as well......we will never open up the Colorado river......

[marmar]

18. I can't even believe a wall is in consideration...

for symbolic reasons if nothing else. Can no one remember the last wall in a western country and the ugliness it brought? It's a really BAD idea.

[Poppyseedman]

19. If you are referring to the Berlin wall

remember that was for keeping people in!!!!

Which may be your point after all

[sandnsea]

37. Not according to the USSR

The wall, according to them, was to keep people from coming in and taking advantage of all the social services for the people that the capitalist pigs didn't provide and if that happened, the socialist system would be overwhelmed and wouldn't have a fair opportunity to work. That's what they told their people.

[monktonman]

26. Dont forget Israel

They've got themselves a pretty nifty wall as well.

[Poppyseedman]

32. I didn't forget Israel

Israel is not a western country as you referred to in your post.

Personally, if I had suicide bombers coming into my city, I might put up a wall also.

[ClintonTyree]

20. Cameras themselves won't work.......

there's a manpower shortage as there is. You can take all the pictures of them you want, but there has to be a physical presence to do something about it.
I think a wall is a stupid idea as well. It won't take long for them to learn how to get over, under, around ot through it.

[PsN2Wind]

23. Has no one heard of seismic intrusion devices?

Former Marine told me over twenty years ago that he was TAD to Fort Huachuca in Southern AZ teaching these devices and that they could tell us exactly where the incursions were and response could have been done accordingly. Some of us were aware there was a problem "way back when". And the problem back then was minuscule as compared to now. But we solved the problem by making the then illegals, legal. Somewhat as is being proposed again.

[Guaranteed]

45. Or how about mines?

Bouncing Betties!

Could make a reality game show out of it.

[PsN2Wind]

47. A seismic intrusion device

senses the presence of an intruder and transmits the data to another location. A mine blows up due to being stepped on or coming within some proximity to it. If you study that maybe you can discern a difference but then, in your case, maybe not.

[Guaranteed]

48. I wasn't being critical. The difference is quite obvious.

I'm just in a sarcastic mood, and your post gave me a "great" idea.

[PsN2Wind]

49. Sorry for overreacting

but after a week of being called, racist, xenophobe, nazi, etc, I've become a bit defensive. To some here, not wanting those fellow citizens and legal residents in this country, that are the most poorly prepared to move up, or even enter the job market, to be forced to compete with people in this country illegally, equates to those epithets.

[Guaranteed]

50. Salright, I see where you got it.

I have no idea what to think about this issue, to be honest.

I do think the wall idea is probably pointless, though, and wasteful.

[Rainscents]

24. We (Reagan) ordered bring the wall down...

We are now talking about putting one up. :eyes:

[Rocknrule]

27. Goddamn Mongolians!

Sorry couldn't resist

[jwirr]

36. The Wall of China is kind of pretty in its antiquity.

[Jade Fox]

29. The idea of a wall says more about....

the mental state of those who advocate it, perhaps, than posing any sort modern solution to constructing a barrier. These people feel invaded, and want something big and imposing to protect them.

[TheBaldyMan]

33. Halliburton, KBR, Bechtel or Blackwater couldn't price gouge

as many millions of it wasn't a multi billion dollar scam.

[BattyDem]

39. As long as our government continues to look the other way ...

while employers break the law by hiring illegal immigrants as slaves, it won't matter how many walls they build, how many cameras are connected, how many guest worker programs are created or how many times amnesty is granted because the problem will continue. JMHO

[SoCalDem]

40. Because Americans are scared of the two things that would work

1. National ID (with biometrics)
2. Confiscation of businesses and jailing of business owners who hire undocumented workers

[Guaranteed]

44. How about shock collars for every Mexican?

And an electric, invisible fence line.

A hundred million shock collars, all supplied by Halliburton.

[sadiesworld]

51. Because a wall is more politically divisive.

Talk of building a wall pushes all sorts of buttons. More technologically advanced alternatives don't have the same built-in, pre-conceived, almost pavlovian responses. In other words, the peeps might like the tech solutions and the elites can't have that--although I am PARTICULARLY amused by all the wall-handwringing which goes on among the elite gated community dwellers.