Alright, you dragged me into this......

[Joe Fields]

I have tried hard to stay out of the immigration issue fracas here at this forum, but many here won't let it die. It is my feeling that there are much more pressing issues we have to deal with now. But this time, and this time only will I speak on immigration, until after the mid-terms.

We have heard from a lot of people on this topic, and maybe I have missed something, but to date I have not heard from an immigrant's(legal or otherwise) point of view. We have heard from people here on DU that live in comfortable houses, many nice homes, I imagine, some not so nice homes, some apartments, some trailers, maybe some mansions. But I doubt any of us here live in ramshackle tin-roof homes, lean-to's with dirt floors, or maybe no homes at all-maybe a tent.

I can imagine how torn an immigrant must feel having to leave their own country for a better life elsewhere. How seemingly impossible it must be to live in a country that doesn't care about you. Jobs may not seem plentiful here in the U.S., but there are a damned sight more jobs here than in Mexico. How you must feel, if you are a Mexican with a family and no means of support- no job, no prospects for work, and not knowing where your next meals are coming from. No real education structure, in short, no way to better your family's lot in life. How you must feel, begging, borrowing and scrimping every lpenny you can muster to pay someone to sneak across the border, all with the dream of a chance, just a chance for a better life in a country that is foreign to you; where you know no one and don't speak the language. Frightening prospect? You bet it must be. Then, you have to worry about making it across the border, wondering if you will be left in the back of a locked semi-van to die from the heat and no water. Then, there is the border patrol, and the chance you will get caught and sent back, having lost all your money for nothing.

And if you make it across the border? Chances are you no nobody, maybe find day work at a construction site, or some type of menial labor. You constantly worry about being picked up by immigration, you work like a dog to survive, and send what little money you can back to your family.

In short, you are only trying to survive in this world the best way you can. You know that the country you were born and raised in doesn't care whether you live or die, but you love it anyway. It is your country.

We take so many things here in the U.S. for granted. What we consider to be rights are high priviledges for Mexicans in their country, to be afforde by a very few. No one, and I mean NO ONE can blame them for coming over here.

I am not saying it is right for them to cross the border illegally. But I thoroughly understand why they do, and it is anything but easy for them to do so. If I were in their situation, I would most likely do the same, for all I would want is a chance to do better for my family and myself. I would put myself through hell to do so, especially knowing that I might have to wait years for a chance to enter legally.

I have known and worked with many Mexicans, both in the lawn care and in the restaurant business. They have proven to be the hardest working, most polite coworkers I have run across. I did not consider it my business to find out whether they were here legally or not. I suspect that some were not here legally. But I always thought to myself that if they were willing to go through hell to get to Kansas City, leaving their homeland and family behind to find a better life in a land completely foreign to them, and if they were willing to work as hard as I saw them work to make it happen, then who was I to judge? I cannot blame them for trying to come to America. I blame our government from not strictly enforcing existing laws, and I blame the business community for intentionally hiring illegals to drive down wages. There is absolutely no room in this issue of immigration for prejudice or nationalism.

I would like to hear from a Mexican immigrant's point of view.

[Faygo Kid]

1. We can come up with a good, if not perfect, solution. We have forgotten

what it is like to solve tough problems, under George W. Bush. We have been beaten to a pulp. We can solve this; we have a huge population base that does not want illegal immigration; we have a huge population here that wants to work and doesn't want them or their relatives criminalized. We can do this. Not everyone will be satisfied, but we need people with good motives, sound hearts and great analysis to work on this. I wish Sen. Paul Simon of Illinois was here. Not sure why, just think he could do it. We can solve this. W. and his administration cannot. Leadership could solve this.

[EFerrari]

2. My mother's family immigrated from Central America. They were lucky.

They had education and two bits to rub together. Even so, the whole process fractured the family for years. I remember sitting around the dinner table and having portions very carefully served because there really wasn't quite enough to feed everyone.

My mother has been asked if she knows "Maria" more times than I can count.

She has been told her people "are still swinging in trees".

My mother has a master's degree from one of the most respected Business schools in the country. And because she has an accent, people shout at her all the time.

I was one of 12 people in my incoming graduate class at Berkeley. (There were boxes and boxes full of denied applications that frankly scared the cr@P! out of me when I saw them.) And I got there by working hard and no thanks to my high school counselor who never asked me once if I wanted to go to college. I guess brown women just weren't asked that question in the high schools in our largely white suburb.

My family was among the fortunate families. We didn't have to risk our lives crossing the desert, and we didn't have to fear being pulled over every time we saw a squad car in the rear view mirror.

[serryjw]

7. We are all children of immigrants

That is what this country was founded on. My main problem with all of this is people wait years to get here legally why should other people be allowed to bypass the wait? I wish all 6.5 Billion can live here but that isn't pssible. I understand that they have nothing in Mexico but there are billions of people that have less and fear for thier lives and the safety of their family.

[EFerrari]

8. Hungry people seem to have a harder time waiting in line? n/t

[leftstreet]

3. If we really "cared" about immigrants, we'd help them get to Canada

Higher wages, stricter labor laws.

:shrug:

Why all these preaching-to-the-choir posts on DU?
Where's the tidal wave of anti-corporate sentiment?

[EFerrari]

5. Because the "choir" has expressed a lot of hostility towards

working families.

Where IS the tidal wave of anti-corporate sentiment?

Illegal immigrants don't want illegal immigration!

:shrug:

[WillyT]

4. Not Mexican Here, But That Is One Beautiful Post Man !!!

:yourock:

Our family has supported the cause of migrant farm workers since the days of Cesar Chavez. To this day, my mom will still not touch a drop of anything produced by the Gallo family.

And her favorite scene (mine too) in the movie, "The Day After Tomorrow", is when Americans are stopped as illegals at the Mexican border as they try to flee the oncoming freeze to the north.

Anywho... wonderful post, my sentiments exactly.

:hi:

[EFerrari]

6. I haven't kept up! Can we buy grapes yet?

:yourock:

[WillyT]

10. I Think So... But This Timeline Here Is Great, Check It Out !!!

Link: http://www.lasculturas.com/aa/bio/bioCesarChavezChron.htm

Now THAT... is how ya get stuff done!

:hi:

[EFerrari]

11. You bet! Thanks for the link! n/t

[Jigarotta]

9. Thanks, Joe.

We need to always keep in mind the real lives and faces and struggles.

I've stayed away from this topic as well because I needed time to think about it and to think about what I am Expected to think about it. First reaction was, 'but they're illegal' - exactly what I was supposed to think.

Do Bush and the one percenters care about the law? hell, no. But people trying not to starve should, right?

[EFerrari]

12. Welcome to DU, Jigarotta.

:hi:

[Jigarotta]

13. thanks! sfexpat!

whose that cute kiddle?

[EFerrari]

15. He's our friend Andy Stephenson when he was a baby.

We lost Andy here at DU last July.

He was just as sweet a man as he was a baby. :)

[Joe Fields]

32. Welcome to DU, and thank you for your input.

[Jim Warren]

14. OK Joe

In short, you are only trying to survive in this world the best way you can. You know that the country you were born and raised in doesn't care whether you live or die, but you love it anyway. It is your country.

Opps, drifted off there for a second, thought you were talking about the US.

[Joe Fields]

27. Does sort of sound that way nowadays, doesn't it?

At least I have the memories of a different America.

[Mizmoon]

16. They should apply for a visa

like everyone else who wants a better life in a new country.

[EFerrari]

17. Do you know, off the top, what the yearly quota is for Mexico?

A real question. I don't know what they are.

And, are there more people coming here than there were before NAFTA?

I don't know very much about NAFTA.

[Mizmoon]

19. I don't

but my bitter attitude has come from looking at European immigration policies. Believe it or not the US is very lenient when compared to the UK or even France. They are protecting themselves from being overwhelmed and I think we should too. In my heart I believe that Mexicans should work on making Mexico a better place to live.

[EFerrari]

20. That would work if US policy (read cronies of the BFEE)

would just keep hands off!

Amy Goodman reported something very interesting last week. Remember how Junior won't respect the International World Court? Well, he's making everyone who gets aid from the Pentagon sign a paper that says they will not take the US to the IWC.

The Latin American countries that HAVE NOT SIGNED OFF on this bit of blackmail have not gotten aid from the Pentagon and ARE DOING BETTER in their own countries.

Things that make you go "hum".

The grip the US once had on Latin America is slipping badly and those countries are moving left -- which means social reform.

The Pentagon is so frantic about this that they're lobbying Bush to drop the requirement.

:wow:

/typin'

[countryjake]

24. I think it depends on why you want to immigrate, family versus employment.

Visa Quota Chart
http://www.immigralaw.com/english/immigrationquotas.html


Legal immigration may jump
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2002905251_immiglegal02.html

~snip~

Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, R-Tenn., who has crafted one of the two immigration bills on the Senate floor, has stressed the border-control and enforcement aspects of his bill, not his proposed increase in legal immigration.

Likewise, there's been little focus on the virtually identical legal-immigration changes in a competing bill the Senate Judiciary Committee approved Monday. The way the bills are worded, it's impossible to determine how much they would increase legal immigration. Judiciary Committee Republican aides said the legislation would add 500,000 to 550,000 green cards each year.

That estimate is too low, said Rosemary Jenks, director of government relations for Numbers USA, which is lobbying against what she said would "by far" represent the biggest increase in legal immigration in U.S. history. "I'm estimating it would double legal immigration."

In 2004, 946,142 green cards were issued, two-thirds for family reunification. The Senate bills would significantly increase family sponsored green cards, now capped at 480,000 annually, by exempting spouses, children and parents of U.S. citizens from the total. That effectively would add about 260,000 green cards annually.

The bills also would boost employment-based green cards from 140,000 annually to 290,000, and would exempt applicants' spouses and children from the cap. Foreign students would be placed on a faster track for green cards.

[EFerrari]

26. Thank you. Here's a link to an editorial that Jade Fox posted.

I haven't read it yet but it looks to have some hard numbers about NAFTA re the numbers of people coming here outside the system.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x201080

[patdem]

18. I too have pretty much stayed out of the debate..but I DO have a solution

OF course let those here stay, work and become Americans...THAT IS A NO BRAINER! We cannot find the tallest man in Afghanestan/Pakistan..and we are going to find and identify 6-10 million illegals? Give me a break! Tighten up the boarders and DEMAND any corporation who hires illegals are PUT THE FUCK OUT OF BUSINESS! I do NOT support a guest worker project that makes the taxpayer an Employment Agency ALSO ...business has too much taxpayer money already...use THAT MONEY to uphold the law and prosecute CORPORATIONS!

[EFerrari]

21. That would work -- but what about NAFTA?

I don't have a good, working understanding about NAFTA or CAFTA but it smells like undermining working families in both venues.

[NNN0LHI]

23. I do not understand NAFTA either but I do know that the if the liberal...

...candidate who is going up against Fox's conservative government becomes president after the elections there in July he plans on pulling Mexico out of NAFTA.

He also is against a porous border between the USA and Mexico and wants to keep his citizens in their own country.

Don

[EFerrari]

25. I didn't know that. Thank you. n/t

[countryjake]

28. Here's some hard googling done by KoKo01 on NAFTA...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=816770&mesg_id=816770

I haven't read all of the links yet, but lots of enlightening there, in some of the ones I have looked at.

[countryjake]

30. Some old DU topics on CAFTA & some of my bookmarks...

There are lots of links to be found in these DU discussions of CAFTA:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3659077&mesg_id=3659077

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3471458&mesg_id=3471458

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3618549&mesg_id=3618549

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3490653&mesg_id=3490653






CAFTA Action Alert
http://www.afsc.org/trade-matters/stop-the-cafta-vote/action-alert.htm

Labor Rights Protections in CAFTA
http://www.globalpolicy.org/globaliz/econ/2003/10laborcafta.htm

Congressional Hispanic Caucus Opposes CAFTA
http://www.house.gov/napolitano/chc/press_releases/pr_06_10_05_CAFTA.htm

Congressional Hispanic Caucus Statement Against CAFTA
http://www.mediamouse.org/cafta/052805congressio.php

Stop CAFTA Coalition Declare Intent to Support Resistance in Central America, Monitor CAFTA
http://www.stopcafta.org/

Citizens Trade Campaign
http://www.citizenstrade.org/cafta.php

Free Trade Delivers More Immigrants, Not Jobs by U.S.
Rep. Raul M. Grijalva Oct. 20, 2003 (pdf file)
http://www.citizen.org/documents/grijalvaoped_cafta.pdf

Leaders Cannot Avoid the Skunk at Trinational Picnic: NAFTA’S 11-Year Record Is Uninvited Guest at NAFTA Meeting
http://www.commondreams.org/news2005/0323-04.htm

[countryjake]

31. And here's one on FTAA...

2003 FTAA Reality Tour of El Salvador
http://www.pica.ws/ss/ftaa-report-summary-2003.htm

[NNN0LHI]

22. Your solution will actually work

I am with you on this.

Don

[mshasta]

29. thank you

I do appreciated your words.. and yes it was hard to get here, I learn the language, went to College and I am who I am, thanks to my husband ..I love this country more than my own...but thank you for being so understanding.

Democrats united !!!!