School Uniforms?

[Fountain79]

At the school that I work at we have a budding argument for/against school uniforms. I work at a public school in the suburbs but it is far from a posh area. Just curious what people think about them.

[GrumpyGreg]

1. I think they're great and I never wore one,nor did my kids.

Neat,and no competing for styles.

[Erika]

2. Hitler thought it was a great idea

Make them all the same.

[tritsofme]

5. How can you have a reasonable discussion

when the first thing out of your mouth is "Hitler"?


Chicken for dinner?

Hitler thought it was a great idea!

[Kerrytravelers]

23. It's amazing, but sometimes Hitler actually has nothing to do with

the discussion! :crazy:

Chicken for dinner? No, Hitler's favorite was steak.

[Roon]

24. Actually, no...

Hitler was a vegetarian.

[Fountain79]

27. Don't be like Hitler...

Beef it's what's for dinner!

[Neil Lisst]

57. Maybe if the bastard had eaten some meat ...

[Kerrytravelers]

60. Ah, so, hitler was a vegetarian... many liberals are vegetarians...

I see the connection now. The right has gotten into calling us the nazis lately.

:crazy:

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

106. Actually, no he wasn't.

http://www.snopes.com/glurge/twoquest.htm

He adopted a vegetarian diet only very late in his life, and that was to try to attenuate gastric problems. No "Nazi vegetarian ideology".

[Kerrytravelers]

168. Better tell Roon! I quoted him!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x825391#825613

[mondo joe]

31. I hear Hitler thought public transport should run on schedule also.

I hear he thought art was a good thing too.

[DetroitProle]

46. not modern art though

Moot point. Just something he has in common with most conservatives.

[aikoaiko]

53. wow, godwin's law kicks in at the second response.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

[Neil Lisst]

55. Funny, Erika!

:D

What has become of "liberal" thinking?!?

I think it comes down to this difference:

There seem to be two kinds of people when it comes to raising kids:

1. those who like to let kids be kids, let them be who they want to be, let them decide how to dress, as long as they BEHAVE properly, and let them have a more free rein in their own lives.

and

2. those who treat them like animals that have to be trained and restrained and comformed to the adult's specifications.

My kids are grown, and they're great. I raised them by giving them freedom and choices, not by hooking them up to my yoke. They have individuality and personality, and no school system my kids went to was going to have that quasi-prison atmosphere. I wouldn't do that to them.

[Lucy - Claire]

88. really....

British and Australian kids wear school uniform, I was one of them and I can assure you that though school is prison it is not the uniforms that do that, for me it was sitting in class, watching life outside the window.
There is a strange image that Americans have about school uniform, that if everyone in school is dress in royal blue (my uniform colour), then we must all be the same. Uniform doesn't take away individual thought or stop kids misbehaving but like that act of going to school or work every day it is disipline, so is wearing uniform. I wore uniform in high school and the girls had enough free rein to get pregnant outside school, despite good sex-ed classes. They had enough free-rein to create a riot in town and get banned from McDonalds for years. Uniform meant they could be indentifed as trouble makers. Kids were encourged to be individuals in there school work, in play time, in drama classes and art.
In our art room in middle school, we had ceiling tiles that were removable and kids often showed personality in painting them, all sorts of images, we had woodlands to play in. And with constant teachers strikes we were more politically aware than we wanted to be.

[question everything]

113. Hi Lucy - Claire, Welcome to DU

and some excellent observations. Thank you. Could not have said this better.

:toast: :bounce:

[Dorian Gray]

99. Britain and Hong Kong

both have them for their government schools. I have two minds about them, though. I think that they are great in some instances, and they may prevent materialism in the schools. But, at the same time, I like individuality and free expression.

Having said all that, using HITLER in this discussion is absolutely ridiculous.

[eagler]

160. Nazis wore uniforms ,baseball teams wear uniforms

therefore baseball players are nazis

[Vincardog]

3. Pro the kids will not have to compete by dressing up or down`

Gang garb will not be allowed.
Con that expression thing and some kids may not afford the uniforms.

[proud2BlibKansan]

30. Actually uniforms are cheaper

than buying a wardrobe for kids to wear.

[CottonBear]

124. At my private school, the uniform dresses were handed down

to younger sibs and firends. The cotton dresses (designed in the mid 1920s-I kid you not!) were made up by seamstresses and only cost about $15 each back in the mid 1970's.

[Neil Lisst]

58. I favor that. You can have reasonable limits without uniformity.

[recoveringrepublican]

82. My son will be attending a school that requires uniforms

Navy polo/collar shirt with no logo and khaki pants, not expensive since the shirt can't have a logo on it. Or we can buy the school t-shirts/sweatshirts...$5/shirt $10/sweatshirt. Cheaper than what I paid for his wardrobe before he started school. He will need minimal clothes now.

[Carni]

100. Well that depends on the uniform code

The school I am dealing with doesn't specify a particular uniform --per say.

Consequently you have some people in very expensive dress clothes that meet the code and you have some kids in thrift store uniform clothes.

My point is you still have the class thing going on in the particular school I am dealing with.

I don't like uniforms in general but if they are going to have them then go all the way and require everyone to wear the same thing.

[AllegroRondo]

143. The "In" kids will find a way to dress up

with jewelry, shoes, watches, etc. The little "expensive accessories" that set them apart.

[Katherine Brengle]

4. I think that they...

are too expensive for a lot of public schools. I think that dress CODES are perfectly reasonable, but uniforms for a public school seems like an unnecessary expense for the parents.

Private schools have uniforms, and they are a choice, and usually a very expensive choice. It is much more likely that parents of private school students can afford the uniforms.

Plus I personally despise the fact that most school uniforms require skirts for girls--I can't imagine having been 15 or 16 and having my period and having to wear an icky wool skirt to school. Ew.

[LisaL]

16. Exactly. I was required to wear a school uniform.

We had to wear dressers, and later a skirt and a jacket. No pants. It's very uncomfortable.
Although for the life of me I don't know what I would be wearing if not for the uniform. I had no other clothes, basically.

[China_cat]

19. We were having turf wars over shoes, hats

and jackets until uniforms. I was totally against the idea at first but I have become a believer.

Here the uniforms are simply dark blue pants with a belt or skirts (girls can also wear pants, they aren't required to wear skirts) and a tucked in white or light blue collared polo-type or button down shirt for elementary schools, and khaki pants with a belt or skirts with tucked in red or white collared polo-type or button down shirts for elementary and high school. No name brand sneakers, no sweatshirts and no hats.

These are available at less cost than school wardrobes would be, can even be found in thrift shops or passed down in a family without kids feeling like they're getting leftovers.

[proud2BlibKansan]

33. My district has a pretty flexible uniform policy

The kids can wear red, white or blue shirts and navy or khaki pants. The girls can also wear navy or khaki jumpers. So it isn't a specific uniform.

My son's high school made the kids wear solid collar shirts with collars and solid color pants. No jeans. That was great and so easy to buy him clothes!

And you know I am old. When I was in high school, girls wore skirts. No pants were allowed unless it was very cold outside. We fought that damn dress code for 4 years. The very first protest I ever participated in was over that dress code. For that reason, I wasn't too keen on uniforms when my district first mandated them. But I like them now, especially since they don't make the girls wear skirts.

[ScreamingMeemie]

74. Many parents in the Detroit Public School system have said it was cheaper,

and I know it HAS been cheaper for us. My daughter goes to a private school on scholarship and it's been a lot cheaper than buying her an entire school wardrobe. The skirts (when she was in primary) were not wool, and now, in high school, she has the choice of khaki or black dress pants and a white, red or black shirt with a color. She's very comfortable as is my pocket book. :shrug:

[Carni]

101. I must be doing something wrong because I am spending way more

I think part of the problem is that my daughter is still young enough that she totals out clothes like crazy.

The staining thing with khaki pants is driving me nuts.

[ScreamingMeemie]

103. You know what I use? Zout stain remover, and then I add a scoop of

enzymatic cleaner to the wash. I remember the days of stained knees really well. ;) Sears also clearances out school uniforms at the end of every season for dirt cheap. I used to get her polos for $3.

[Carni]

107. Well here's the thing...the uniforms are technically optional

Last year I guess they were mandatory (my daughter was not at this school last year) but this year they switched to this dress code that more or less follows the guidelines of uniforms...but the kids don't have to wear an actual uniform/ per say.

Sooooo IMO the school has accidentally escalated what I thought the dress code was supposed to prevent.

There are some kids (a minority at this point) who wear standard uniforms
(and they get bashed for being geeks or whatever by the other kids) and then you have the bulk of the other kids wearing elaborate expensive dresses and coats and shoes...granted their outfits technically don't violate the dress code, but the whole point of the code I thought was to make everyone equal (for instance I have even seen kids wearing pleather type pants and that seems to fly, I don't get it?)

To get to the point... I don't want my daughter to get a bunch of abuse if she wears a uniform, so I am stuck with trying to shop around this weird dress code and it's very frustrating.

Thanks for the stain tips -- My daughter is tall so she's into tween type sizes but she still wreaks havoc on clothes like a typical 4th grader!

[mondo joe]

85. Uniforms are cheaper.

Without doubt.

[Lucy - Claire]

89. In the UK...

Most schools have basics such as shirts and trousers, skirts and jumpers which high street stores sell cheaply. often with deals, such as two shirts for the price of one, for parents with more than one child to buy for.It is generally cheaper. Private schools are often more expensive but again they do second hand sales too. Of course if there are siblings, already at the school, hand me downs are inevitable anyway.
And many schools have second hand uniform sales for more expensive blazers and ties, which are logoed. Parents don't have trainers to worry about either.
Though as I said parents by uniforms to last, so first years in a school have jumpers or sweatshirts three sizes too big. Girls schools often have summer uniforms too, usually a cotton dress but it is optional and often a hand me down if it is too expensive.

[VelmaD]

6. yup...let's turn our kids into little conformists...

They just decided to start telling the kids in my old school what colors they can wear. My nephew is stuck with this bullshit starting next year despite the fact that the VAST majority of people at the school board meeting where they decided this were AGAINST it.

I'm nagging my mom to run for school board over this issue. Or at least find someone running to kick the bums out and work for them.

[Telly Savalas]

34. Kids have real problems if the only manner in which they can

express their individuality is through the way they dress.

Conformity of fashion for teenagers exists in the absence of dress codes.

[Neil Lisst]

56. Uniforms are one more encroachment on a kid's freedom.

Just another bullshit idea that has come of age in education in public schools in America.

[Lucy - Claire]

92. Kids are conformists by nature......

If I go shopping at the weekends that kids are all dressed the some, even without uniform.
When kids are not wearing uniform, they still have to conform to their classmates or risk getting
bullied for not dressing like them. God help a ten year old boy that can not have Nike trainers or
this seasons Man.U football shirt. Or if a twelve year old girl doesn't have her ears pierced, like the cool kids,
wears sensible shoes or has supermarket brand jeans!!!!! Maybe you managed to keep your kids out of mainstream school but it is a vicious place. Uniform is one less issue for the bullies. BTW: teens in uniform, still dye their hair black, try to wear make up, smoke at the bus stop and have vodka in their juice cartons.

[truebrit71]

118. Rubbish.

.

[av8tor05]

135. Since when are kids entitled to freedom.

Uniforms can/do eliminate several problems our kids face each day
1. No more peer pressure for the latest fashions.
2. No competition for who is wearing the $60 Nikes or other nonsense.
3. Sets a tone that school is a serious place where proper dress and decorum will be observed.
4. Sets boudaries for kids that are known and enforceable.
5. Provides structure, it is alot easier to get prepared for school the night before when there is no doubt as to what you will be wearing the next morning.

I'm sure other parents can think of more. Kids get their "rights" from their parents, some kids have way too many "rights."

[DoYouEverWonder]

65. I wore a school unform for 12 years

and I've never been accused of being a conformist.

As a matter of fact, they force you to find other more creative ways to express yourself.

[ScreamingMeemie]

75. My daughter is probably the least conforming teen you'll ever meet...

all that in a school uniform even. She doesn't seem to have as much a problem with it as some adults here. It's clothing for crimey's sake.

[mondo joe]

90. Why have them wear clothes at all? Or conform to a set schhedule for

school, rather than show up any time they like?

[Fountain79]

7. They are fairly common in Latin America...

In both public and private schools. Anyone know if they are common place in Europe?

[rpannier]

9. Common place in Asia

I think every country in Asia requires them once they're in Middle School.

[tenshi816]

64. They're certainly commonplace in the UK, Ireland and France,

but I don't know about other European countries.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

105. That's correct. But the key is:

Public schools GIVE them away (in Brazil at least), and that's the way it has to be. The main benefit IMHO is the economic one -- even the "let's kill fashion competition" argument actually boils down to $$$ too.

[rpannier]

8. I live in Korea

In Public Schools there are no uniforms for Elementary School Children. In Middle School and High School, they must wear uniforms.
The girls are all still in elementary school so we don't have to get uniforms yet, but I'm okay with them.

[Lucy - Claire]

93. I have that system at school...

I didn't have uniform in primary school and I was much happier with uniform in middle and high school.
My mother is fairly bo-ho and it meant I was always a little different, plus we have little money.In the 70's kids were much more conformist and illiberal. I was unhappy because my mother refused to dress me like the others and with naturally curly hair I stood out enough and I was bullied. Most primary schools do now have uniforms.

[LA lady]

10. We LOVE it

My daughter's public school requires them. They are MUCH more economical than popular clothes. The kids were shook at first but settled in and seem to prefer them. Poor and rich do not compete for style and name brand.It is so much easier in the mornings. I really can't think of a single negative.
Every other Friday they have a choice to wear regular clothes if they pay 1$ and it goes to Katrina relief.Last year it was Red Cross.

[sadiesworld]

151. Yep, uniforms were a lifesaver when I was a teen.

I went to the toniest HS in the city and my family was middle-class, at most. I had two skirts, one vest and a few blouses. That was it!

I would think uniforms would be even more desirable today as kids are much more status conscious.

[BlooInBloo]

11. (shrug) As long as their cost is subsidized....

... so as not to be too much of a burden on families that are having a hard time of it...

[LA lady]

14. cheaper

At our school most people donate their outgrown uniforms to the school which operates a "clothes closet". Kids can get uniforms there if they can't afford them but a pair of Khakis can be purchased a lot cheaper than a pair of jeans!

[calmblueocean]

12. I came from a poor family, and *wished* my school had uniforms.

I really did. I know there are people who feel that school uniforms deprive students of self-expression, but I remember how tough it was when summer vacation was coming to a close, and my Mom and Dad had to find money to come up with school clothes for us. I can still remember the moment I finally realized my Mom wasn't refusing to buy the clothes I wanted because she wanted to embarrass me -- we just didn't have the money for it.

I started dressing in heavy metal t-shirts and blue jeans through much of high school not because I was crazy about the bands, but because it was easy to get by with just a few outfits that way. I didn't want my parents spending money on clothes for me. Dressing up like a stoner, though, affected the way my teachers and other students saw me in ways I didn't completely appreciate until I'd already graduated. I always ended up in the back of the room or the back of the bus, not even really aware that I was playing the part I'd dressed for. I'd try different afterschool activities like Mock Trial, but would end up not coming back next year because I felt so conspicuously aware of the difference between the image my teammates presented, and the image I could afford to present.

I would've loved having a school uniform. I can tell you that it definitely would've affected my academic performance in a positive way.

[Roon]

26. I knew a guy

Whose Mother used to make them shoplift for back to school clothes..very sad

[Neil Lisst]

59. I knew a man, Bojangles ...

;)

[Fountain79]

13. In my school's situation...

There are some instances where the dress code could just be more strictly enforced. I have thought of this item though....Teachers have to conform to certain dress codes more stringent than students because we are professionals and that is our career. I normally don't wear what I wear to work, I am normally found in jeans and a t-shirt. Yet I know that when i go to work that I am in a different place than in my home life. For some of the kids that I deal with, they have a problem discerning that school is different from home. Perhaps a different style of dress can help reinforce that ideal.

[Bobbie47]

15. my daughters school is

having meeting on this issue now, she says no. I have mixed feelings on the issue. Haven't heard anything about how much a uniform would cost. She's in a public school.

[izzybeans]

17. I was against them until my wife began working at a Charter school

that focuses on children of low income families. She thinks it frees some of the children who would normally be ostracized in a suburban school (for being poor, not having the right gear, etc.) to become part of the class. Their confidence is higher than in other places. Sure the "original" kids don't get to show of their shiney shoes. But I'm coming to think I really don't care if they can or can not express their consumerism in a classroom. Children should not be made to feel ashamed for not having the latest threads.

[SmileyBoy]

18. As long as they're not planning to force public university students

to wear them, then I really don't see a problem with it.

[Swamp Rat]

32. LOL!

I hear ya! :D

[moc]

20. I like them. My daughter's school is doing them this year for the first

time as an optional. It's simple - khaki or blue shorts/skirt/pants plus knit polo type shirt in red, blue, or white. Our weather is such (mild) that I just got her a couple pullovers for winter. I find it cheaper in terms of clothes buying and makes getting ready in the morning simpler. I wish they would do it for middle/high school.

[Dead_Parrot]

21. I had one in the UK...

It's a great way to get rid of snobbishness wrt. who can afford the "Best" clothes - everyone has the same stuff. I had one friend whose dad was worth ~$2 mill is US terms, and another whose parents were on benefit: They wore exactly the same.

Just make sure there is some way to help the poorer families to buy the kit: They do look crap if everything is second-hand.

[malaise]

76. All school children wear uniforms

in the English speaking Caribbean. It's way cheaper for parents and makes everyone equal.

[Kerrytravelers]

22. It depends on the community and the reasons they are being considered.

In my district, we have a very tight dress policy, but not official uniforms. Kacky pants or blue pants and different shirt choices depending upon the school you go to. We needed it with the social problems and economic disparity. The local stores give HUGE discounts according to financial need (this is handled privately through the school based on free lunch programs and kids who get health care through the district.)

Again, there is no right or wrong answer since there are different issues across this huge land mass we inhabit.

[Warpy]

25. If only they'd choose sensible ones!!!

That means jeans and shirts for both sexes, but no! They have to stick the girls in fucking DRESSES. Anyone who doesn't realize why this idea SUCKS has never spent time on a playground in a dress or has forgotten it completely.

Jeans and white shirts with blue jackets would be economical and girls could actually PLAY in them. They have the added advantage of wearing like iron.

But no!! They stick boys in gabardine slacks and girls in those stupid fucking dresses.

No uniforms!

(yes, I was scarred by having to wear Catholic school uniforms. It's one reason I fled when I was 10)

[tenshi816]

66. The dresses-on-girls for uniforms is so outdated.

The girls in my older son's school can wear black trousers, which most of them opt for. In fact, I can't remember the last time I saw a teenage girl at his school wearing a skirt as part of her uniform.

The weird thing is, in my younger son's school, the girls are also allowed to wear trousers but none of them do. I don't know if it's a parental decision or if his school is just has a lot of really girly-girls.

[Carni]

102. Amen! I am WITH YOU on this!

I would be THRILLED if the school mandated jeans with a white shirt and a blue jacket but this particular strange code they have going isn't doing anything practical for me or my kid.

Jeans are cheaper and they wear well...I am sick of getting all bent out of shape trying to get paint and grass stains out of light colored pants.

I am old enough that until I hit third grade girls had to wear dresses to public schools and I friggin hated it. It was uncomfortable and there was always that whole people trying to lift your skirts to see your underwear thing happening...it was an added stress that kids don't need (at least this kid didn't need it)

[New Government]

28. Love 'em!

They're great. No more fights on competing with all the other kids at school over what BRAND of jeans, etc. It began here 2 years ago and many of us were against it at first. But, I was wrong, it really is better all the way around.

[proud2BlibKansan]

29. They are great

Kids in my district have been wearing them for about 5 years now. I wasn't gung ho for them before but now I love them. No more banned t-shirts, no sagging pants. No skimpy little halter tops. No short shorts.

[Neil Lisst]

35. "We don't need no education. We don't no thought control."

The Wall.

Yeah, let's beat all the individuality out of them early. It will prepare better for Amerika.

[Fountain79]

37. Yeah it's much better that they learn comformity

from whatever corporate America tells them to wear. :sarcasm:

[Neil Lisst]

54. I think the kids and parents will decide, not corporate America.

I always let my kids wear whatever they wanted, and strange combinations never troubled me.

[Kerrytravelers]

40. Why don't you go sue them?

:shrug:

[Fountain79]

42. huh?

:wtf:

[Kerrytravelers]

43. Another thread reference. Not intended to reference you.

Some Duers really enjoy sueing rather than working with other people.

[Fountain79]

44. Ah...

gotcha..

[Kerrytravelers]

45. What are the reasons some are advocating uniforms in your area?

Are they uniforms, or a very strict dress code? Just curious. We had to due to violence and attacks based on clothing. Behavior has changed and learning seems to be on the increase. We do have the option of Parental Opt Outs. Many parents choose this, but three are still some very stict dress rules (no midriffs, closed shoes, etc.)

[Fountain79]

48. I think we have found increasing problems...

with having to police student attire. There hasn't been gang issues.

[Kerrytravelers]

49. Sometimes, the threat of uniforms alone is enough.

That worked in my first district. Certain parents who were more likely to not pay attention suddenly because very intreested when they realized that their kids sneaking clothes out to wear to school was a major part of the problem.

Hopefully, it won't come to uniforms.

[Fountain79]

50. It might draw from the fact too..

That we have a sizable number of kids donning the goth attire that often includes chains etc, that we aren't sure how to police.

[Kerrytravelers]

52. It's a shame the adults can't see through the chains.

There are some very sweet kids who dress goth. So long as they
re being responsible students and their boobs aren't hanging out, sometimes you have to let things go. Only when violence or teen promiscuity becomes part of the equation is there a problem- as in my district.

[proud2BlibKansan]

129. Or he could draw a cartoon about it

:rofl:

[Peanutcat]

36. Well, let's see

If the uniforms are paid for by the school system, that costs money, so either your taxes will go up or some programs will be cut to make up for them. And because of the cost, children who are smaller than average or larger than average may not find anything to fit them.

And

If the unifoms are bought and paid for my the families, rich kids will still be wearing high-quality uniforms while poor kids might not be able to afford uniforms at all, or at best, they might be able to cut-rate uniforms.

[mondo joe]

97. The uniforms are pretty standard, in my experience without a lot of

room for "rich" versions.

[devilgrrl]

38. It would be easier to deal with the school's "Heathers" crowd

:shrug:

[JohnKleeb]

39. I honestly hate the idea

Its bad enough that your personal freedoms are reduced in school, I think it would be just as bad to not allow them to wear the clothing of their choice.

[kid a]

41. for them

[tammywammy]

47. I think it's a good idea

Some of the schools in this district have them. There was a parent debate and they went for them. They get the choice of navy, white, hunter green shirts and khaki or navy pants. The girls can wear knee-length skirts I believe, and I know that jumpers are allowed.

And I don't think it's too conformist either. The children usually learn to express their individualism in other ways, i.e. girls nail polish, socks, etc.

[Warren DeMontague]

51. Egh. I know I would have been absolutely appalled if they tried to pull

that kind of shit on us when I was in High School.

I think they send the wrong messages about conformity and rigidity. If there are specific issues that are trying to be addressed, like gang colors or symbols, then deal with those directly.

[Kailassa]

61. My 12 y o granddaughter loves having uniform.

She has always had trouble trying to fit in, and not having money for the expensive brands and the "right" look had left her with low self esteem.

Now she travels to a wealthier suburb and attends a school with uniform, because there was intense peer pressure on all the kids at her local school to have sex. So, at her present school, she was a poor nerd who no-one knew. She had to get a second hand uniform, but she's happy with it, and now she's in her second year there all the uniforms look a bit worn anyway. It's taken a while, but at last she is starting to feel accepted by the others.

The uniform has been chosen carefully for our very changeable Australian climate. The clothes are quite casual. There are quite a few items that either sex can choose from, including long baggy shorts and polo tops.

Both her and her mother find it a great relief not to have to choose clothes every day, and not having to buy fashions to keep up with the crowd.

[tenshi816]

62. I never wore one but my two sons do.

I'm in favour of it, and it's all my boys have ever known so they don't really think about it. It saves a small fortune in clothing (two changes of clothing basically gets them through the school year, with the odd replacement piece of clothing due to growth spurts), plus it levels the playing field for the kids - no one gets ragged on for not having trendy enough clothes. It makes life easier for everybody and the kids certainly aren't harmed by it.

If anything, in Britain I feel that having to wear uniforms throughout their school years makes young people far more inventive with their clothing once they're out of school and able to dress the way they want. There are a lot of people with wonderfully expressive personal style in the UK.

[renate]

63. put me down as WILDLY in favor of school uniforms

I went to an English grammar school for a year. Which was hard, yeah, but my appearance didn't single me out, which as a weird outsider teenager I found to be a huge, huge, huge blessing and relief.

The richest kid in school (whoever that was--which is kinda the point) looked EXACTLY like me.

I didn't have to worry that I looked like a dork, that some trend had come along that I didn't know about.

I didn't have to maintain the list that I fretted over in my later years of American high school to keep track of how many times I'd worn which clothes and when (not that ANYBODY cared--but as a teenager I thought everybody was looking at me 24/7).

I looked good. As good as a budding adolescent can look, anyway. The outfit was neat and clean and respectable and I felt like a grownup.

I loved paying 50p or whatever it was, to raise money for charity, on the four days a year we could dress as we liked. It was such a gas to wear jeans to school. But the rest of the time, standing up when the teacher came into the room, wearing a uniform, following strict rules--it was comforting and safe to me as a teenaged geek/loser, and it kept us in order, and we learned LIKE CRAZY.

Kids have the rest of their lives to express themselves. Uniforms have no real downside that I can see (they're not fun, exactly, but SUCK IT UP, kids. Being able to do what you want is one of the major perks of growing up, but you hafta earn it for it to really be fun).

[tenshi816]

67. The "list" you mentioned -

I did that too in high school because I was obsessively worried that some wildly popular bitchy girl - and it always was a girl - would say to me (as occasionally happened) "didn't you wear that same outfit less than a week ago?" It didn't help that my mother wouldn't let me pick out my own clothes until I was about 15 either. I used to beg to be sent to Catholic school so I could wear a uniform; I would've considered it a blessing at the time.

[mwooldri]

68. Generally, I'm in favour. However...

... kids will find ways to flout the uniform regulations - to go ever-so-darned close to going over the top of what is considered acceptable or otherwise.

Example: Skirts were to be worn at or below the knee... so many girls hoiked their skirts up at lunch and break time, and when teachers were around they were pulled down. There's plenty of things that can be done with hair, schoolbags, other stuff, etc. that will allow expressions of individuality. Even with places with uniforms, the dorks and the geeks will still get picked on. I was one of them dorks and geeks. At least I looked similar to the rest of them.

Mark.

[ScreamingMeemie]

69. I love them. My daughter went to both a public school (without) and

a private school (with). There was far less trouble with the uniforms than without. No comparing "labels", no bullying kids with "Kmart clothes" and levels the playing field. Detroit Public Schools are now doing this and I applaud them.

[Locrian]

70. my kids scholl has them

Its just navy or kakhi's with belt and shirt w/o slogans.

As for "conformance" and not being able to "express" themselves: look, kids ARE conformists. They will copy their peers and wear whatever the "in" thing is. I would rather have them express themselves through their minds and not through some outter expression which in reality is just hiding in the crowd. Even my 8 yo kid knows this.

[ScreamingMeemie]

72. Exactly. Which is why I have always laughed at goth kids who claim

they are "doing their own thing"...it's been done so many times. My daughter's high school is black or khaki dress pants with a white, black or red shirt with a color and no prints. They do have a bit of choice, but it's also kept out the hip huggers etc. They do have "dress down" days where they can wear appropriate, non flesh baring casual clothing.

[LWolf]

71. No, thanks.

Having spent some 23 years in public ed now, I may come from a different perspective. I think it would be great to have my kids come to school in some sort of uniform that would cut past the "fashion" obsession.

I'm just not willing to go that far. In the constant tension between regulation and liberties, we need balance. Dictating a uniform goes too far for me. We have a dress code. That's far enough.

[seabeyond]

73. i am against. thought i was for it. but now i must say because of my

youngest child i am against. kids went private. my oldest was fine. my youngest is so sensitive to clothes and the collar shirt bug him so much it was such a fight getting him dressed in hte morning it was a real plus for us going to public and not having that fight in the morning. now easy as pie tshirt and jeans and no struggle. i like that a whole lot better and i would vote against uniform. i thought uniform would be easier for me. it wasnt

[Bridget Burke]

77. Many schools in the Houston ISD require uniforms...

Starting kids off in uniforms is different from foisting them on whiny teenagers. The uniforms are simple separates--with slacks allowed for girls & walking shorts for both sexes. The fabrics are light--wool doesn't cut it in Houston

The uniforms appear to be fairly inexpensive & the district has funds for those who need them.

Perhaps kids could express their individuality in what they do & what they say--rather than which clothes their parents can afford to buy them.

[ScreamingMeemie]

78. Wool hasn't been used in the school uniforms at my daughter's school

ever. My mother wore a wool uniform...55 years ago. :hi:

You are dead on, btw.

[LostinVA]

79. My niece and nephew had to wear them for three year -- my sister loved it

Cheaper, no wasted time arguing in the morning, etc. Shoes were Loafers, lace-ups, etc. So, te fancy expensive sneakers could only be worn in gym. They wore khakis, the girls could wear a khaki skirt if te hy wanted, white shirts, tie if they wanted, sweater vests, sweaters, or cardigans, and dark socks.

The kids wound up liking it.... my niece because other kids didn't get picked on, my nephew, because he thought it was "preppy." (now he's 16 and wears nothing but Hot Topic!).

This was a suburban public school, btw.

Growing up, we had very little money, and my mom made most of all clothes... I would have LOVED this...

[DrGonzoLives]

80. Let's make them have standard haircuts too

And we can make them talk the same. Let's just turn our kids into little androids who all look alike.

[obreaslan]

81. If you don't look the same, how can we make you think the same??!?!?!!!

A standard uniform is the foundation of good, standard molding of young minds. Thinking the same, looking the same, being the same. THis is the way to a better future.

Now, grow up to be good little consumers, doing what we tell you.

CONFORM!!!!!

Now, what time is the Two Minutes Hate today????

:sarcasm:

[mondo joe]

91. LOL - no, better to have them indoctrinated early into FASHION

so they can be good consumers trying to one up each other.

[Lucy - Claire]

83. I wore them....

most kids in the UK wear them and I like them. We also had rules on jewerelly, only stud earrings and a watch were allowed.Also trainers and high heels are usually banned. Uniforms have changed from many trousers are part of the uniform and sweatshirts with the school logo, instead of v-neck jumpers or cardigans. Some uniforms look really nice too and uniforms include uniforms for PE or games too. Often schools have mufti days where they charge £1 per kid and they can wear what they like.
The benefits are for the parents a cheaper budget for clothes and most of us had uniforms with at least two years grow room in them. It idea that kids all dress the same so there is no competition for cool clothes and designer labels, there is nothing to nick. I went to a non-uniform Primary School and was often picked on because my mother was no bo-ho in how she dressed me than the others. I was more comfortable in uniform and enjoyed in when I turned 16 and left school. It was a joy to wear real clothes but I believe the school uniform is a good thing.
The idea that kids in uniform are conformist,loss their individuality or comments about Hilter and uniform are not
based on reality. British schools, do not pledge allegence to any flag and most kids just about know two lines of God Save The Queen.

[noonwitch]

84. I never had to wear one, and would have hated to do so

But kids at my school weren't beating others up or shooting them over the clothes we were wearing, either. We had a dress code, but no uniforms.

[ShortnFiery]

87. Anyone who has experienced a child going through adolescence ...

Oh the horror of those middle school years! Kids are never happy with their appearance and it drives MOM insane. I guess for purely selfish reasons, it would be much less drama for all involved getting dress in the morning - if everyone would wear blue or blue plaid. <tongue in cheek>

[dogday]

86. They have turned these kids into little learning soldiers

They might as well dress the part......

[AlCzervik]

94. my daughter wears one and has for the past 6 years, saves $$$ and

i'm all for them.

[guinivere]

95. I wore a school uniform for 12 years.

They weren't cheap and it wasn't comfortable. Freshman year, I hated it. After that I got used to it.
Rather than require people that are struggling financially to buy pricey uniforms, the school could just say jeans and a ______ shirt. This would work for girls and boys.

[mondo joe]

96. How expensive was your uniform?

I wore uniforms for much of my schooling and they were cheap.

My daughters don't, and it's not cheap.

[guinivere]

111. Back in '65 it cost my dad around $90

for the ensemble.
2 white blouses, 1 jumper, 1 school crest thingy, 1 beany (yeah, a beany). The jumper was wool and had to be dry cleaned. If you grew a bunch over the summer, all this stuff had to be repurchased.
This on top of tuition, regular bills, coats, and your regular clothes. My dad was a mechanic, so maybe to him, this was pricey.

[Carni]

98. My kid has to wear uniform code type clothes -- I HATE IT!

No denim of any color (cordoroy bizarely enough is acceptable)no sweats or workout style pants allowed (although if you wear taboo stuff to school they send you to the office and make you change into sweats...WTF?)

Shirts must be turtlenecks, mock turtlenecks - or they must have a collar.

Skirts must be below the knee.

Shorts must be below the knee.

No logos of any kind may be present on shirts, or pants.

Shoes must be tennis shoes, or dress shoes/ no sandals or flip flops.

This dress code sucks!

Jeans are cheap--you can pick up cute jeans at discount places for 10 or 15 bucks
(my daughter wears a junior's size 1) they don't stain the kids can beat the hell out of them and they will still survive the wear. T-shirts are cheap/ again you can pick up great cute t-shirts at Target for 5 bucks.

All this dress code has accomplished is that I have to spend double the money on really ugly "servicable" crap that looks bad on my daughter--she's bummed, I am bummed...half of the time we have to buy something ill fitting because these types of clothes are not traditionally *kids clothes* and they are hard to find.

This is at a public school in a fairly affluent area.

Aside from all the above what really burns my butt is that the teachers wear whatever they feel like wearing.

The music teacher for instance was wearing a mini-skirt with thigh high, high heeled boots that last time I caught her act.

I don't care what the teachers wear aside from the fact that what is good for the kids should be good enough for them as well...let them try to dress according to this ugly dress code!

In summation I am very ANTI uniform!

Additionally what parent wants to iron pants and shirts every night--??

[knitter4democracy]

167. Oh, that's no good.

I buy my daughter's uniform stuff at Sears (for the polyester, easy to clean skorts and skirts) and am looking for a new dark blue pant that fits longer than the ones I bought this last fall at the mall. I hear Land's End stuff lasts well.

[savemefromdumbya]

104. I wore uniform

I think uniform is a great idea. You didn't have to think in the morning of what to wear.

[The2ndWheel]

108. The debate is great

Yes to uniforms, the kids are taught conformity by the state.

No to uniforms, the kids are taught conformity by the corporation.

Anyone ever get the feeling that we're all just screwed no matter what we do?

[soup]

109. fairly set against.

One reason is laundry:

2 sets of clothes per day per child...

Elementary school -
"No, you can't go out and play until you change out of your 'school clothes'."
"Oh, I see you had art class today and painted something blue."
Kindergarten & white polo shirts & juice break...

Middle / high school -
"Mom, I need to change before I go to dinner / a friend's house / the movies / wherever. I can't go out looking like a dork."

All -
In the event laundry doesn't get done on time - or the dryer breaks down, and that uniform isn't clean and wearable, they're going to be sent home with a stern warning (been there, done that).

Another is the cost factor:

I hear people say that it's cheaper - but in my experience, having to wear a uniform to school adds to the cost of clothing. It's just one more set of clothes they have to have.

and then there's Friday. They take a 'break' and get to wear a school logo t-shirt or sweatshirt, depending on weather. So of course they have to have one of those, too. If everyone else is showing 'school spirit' and your kid isn't - they stand out like a sore thumb.

Which brings us back to laundry - and the inevitable Thursday night scramble - where's the Vikings shirt?

[question everything]

110. I was once at a small fast food place and several high-schoolers

were there during lunch break. There was something in their cloths and manner that made me wonder whether they may have been gang members.

And I was thinking then that, had they wore their school uniforms, everyone would have been a lot more relaxed there.

I think that school kids, of any age, have plenty of opportunity to express their individualism. Wearing uniforms - of any type, whether it is school, or the military, business or health care - unconsciously stirs the wearers to behave in a certain way, it even changes one's posture.

[mdmc]

112. what is more important

being able to express yourself (express your wealth) or everyone being dressed equally, required to dress equally.

[loudestchick]

114. Love the uniform! All three of my kids wear a uniform to public school.

Navy or khaki pants/skirts/jumpers/shorts
White or navy shirts w/ a collar (includes turtlenecks)
no requirements on footwear or socks

My youngest accessorizes with her tights and hair accessories
My son loves dressing like everyone else...he says it's like being on a team...a learning team!
My oldest is harder...she's 11 and is glad there aren't as many fashion issues but would like the clothes to be a little more comfortable...a little stretch in her khakis has gone a long way toward keeping her happy.

Our school also has a "uniform exchange" at the beginning of every year...I've found some really nice blouses for me youngest through that program.

[noamnety]

115. I hate the idea

I wore a uniform in the army, though not as a student. I loved my army BDU's because they were functional. I need cargo pockets. I'm a teacher now, and I still wear khakis with cargo pockets.

I hated the more formal uniform, though, because it was completely impractical. I don't carry a purse, and the women's class b's (the uniform that looks like a suit) was unusable because of a lack of pockets. I used to have to tuck my money and credit cards and stuff in my socks. Also, it was unusable in that the shirt wasn't long enough to deal with real life issues. Ever try to lower yourself into a tank with a shirt that only goes to your waist? When you lift your arms up to lower yourself in, your shirt comes up over your chest. There were things in the reserves I couldn't participate in because the uniform, specifically, prevented me from doing them in mixed company.

So as a matter of practicality, people need to be able to decide for themselves what works for them. White shirts if you get pit stains, light pants if you get grass stains, turtle necks if they make you gag (like they do me), lack of pockets if you carry a camera and batteries, but no purse, tucked in shirts if need a long form-hiding shirt that will keep you from feeling self-conscious about your belly or backside - there's not one solution that addresses everyone's issues.

I know that they are, in part, a response to kids that wear clothing that's considered too revealing. But the uniforms with tucked in shirts are more revealing than I'm comfortable wearing. I like to hide behind my clothes. Here I am in my 40's and my mom is still on my case because I buy clothes that are a size too big -I figure I don't need the students in my room checking out my ass.

Function + self-esteem. What works for one person isn't going to work for another, no matter how amazingly well it worked for you. And I think that's why you see a range of responses in this thread. Uniforms are a good experience for some people, and horrifying for others. So the question is, do you care about the others? Is it enough to know that for SOME people, maybe even most people, this will be a great thing, while for others it will be embarrasing, uncomfortable, and will limit their activities?

[VelmaD]

116. Thank you for pointing out...

how uniforms could actually hurt the self-esteem of kids whose bodies may not fit the "norm". When I was a teen I was large. If I had had to wear a shirt tucked into pants I would have been mortified.

I have to say I'm really disappointed at the level of comfort with forced conformity I'm seeing on this thread...and I'm even more disappointed at some of the responses that seem to indicate a fear of or disdain for kids who dress different. (i.e. the comments about goth kids)

[renate]

121. the uniform we wore at a grammar school in England was perfect

We had options (well, the skirts had to be skirts, gray or black, but they could be plain or pleated). A white blouse, a white blouse under a black sweater, a white blouse under a red sweater (it was a very pretty red, too), or a black turtleneck. So nobody had to wear a white blouse if they really didn't want to, nobody had to wear a turtleneck if they didn't want to, but they could wear their personal favorite version of the uniform day after day or switch around if they wanted. It was an ideal solution because there was just enough wiggle room to accommodate people's preferences but nobody stood out if they only had one blouse and one skirt and one sweater--that was fine too.

[VelmaD]

122. But if you don't look good...

in white, black or red? What if you'd like to have a little color in your life?

My mom and I were talking about the colors my nephew and his classmates will be allowed to wear next year...pink is not on the approved list. Neither is purple. Or yellow. As far as I can tell shirts with patterns are not allowed. And no trim...so not even a white shirt with little flowers or footballs or whatever on it.

My nephew went to school today in his Texas Rangers' shirt to celebrate opening day. Can't do that next year. The day after UT won the national football championship he wore a UT shirt...won't be able to do that next year either. No Darth Vader shirts. No Dallas Cowboys shirts. No Sponge Bob, or Big Dawg, or shirts with pictures of trucks. No more camo (he loves to wear his little camo outfit 'cause everyone at home will pretend it makes him invisible).

I find the thought of them stifling my boy...just beyond words.

[truebrit71]

117. I think they are a very good idea.

That way mummy and daddy's money (or lack thereof) don't matter...The kids will learn all they need to know about materialism at home and once they enter the workplace..

School is a place to learn, not to wear the latest fashion statement....

[rocktivity]

119. There are too many things America's public schools need worse

like computers, up-to-date books and equipment, computers, extracurricular programs, more teachers and tutors to reduce class size, and parents earning enough money so that they CAN clothe their own children!

:headbang:
rocknation

[CottonBear]

120. I'm in favor. I wore a uniform for 6 years at a private girls school.

1. It is easy to get dressed in the morning.
2. It saves your parents lots of money.
3. It is an equalizer among students and keeps them from showing off expensive clothes and shoes.
4. You can still wear "civilian" clothes after school and on the weekends but your parents don't need to buy as many as if you wore them all the time.

We could only wear penny loafers or saddle oxfords with our dresses. We could wear solid colored cardigans with the dress. We wore white ankle socks. Today, the girls can wear tennis shoes with their uniforms. However, the dress has remained virtually the same since the mid-1920s.

edit: I'm in favor of uniforms for both boys and girls at both private and public schools. The UK and many European countries require uniforms. It is simply a good idea. A student's most imnportant job is to be a good student and a respectful child. I believe that the uniform helps to reinforce the the idea that school is to be taken seriously and that it is not a time for a fashion show to see who can outspend whom. Of course, one can accessorise to some extent. My school had certain rules on accessories. We tended to carry interesting handbags and wear nice overcoats, hats, gloves and scarves in the winter. :)

[VelmaD]

123. your point #4 is rubbish

If a kid takes off the uniform the second they walk in the door from school (and you can't seriously believe they'll leave it on once they're home) then they will wear just as many "civilian" clothes (I find that term rather interesting) as they would have anyway. Plus it increases the amount of laundry that has to be done since every day they're wearing two complete outfits.

[CottonBear]

125. It is not rubbish. "Civilian" is what my school called non-uniform day

clothes. On "Civilian Day", we could wear regular clothes. (And you know what? We all wore typical preppy clothes like cords and tweed jackets and monogrammed wool sweaters and we sort of still all looked alike!) There were about 2 of these civilian days per year.

Another point: My school class hours were from 7:30 AM to 5:00 PM M-TH and 7:30 AM - 3:30 PM on Fridays. Then, after class, on most days we had extra-curricular activites (clubs, practice, sports teams, school councils, etc.) before returning home to do at leat two hours of home work every night (for 6 years). So, at 7 PM at night M-TH I was usaully still in uniform. I took it off to get ready for bed. Straight from uniform dress to pajamas on most nights! The uniform as been worn since the 1920s and the school will be 100 years old this spring. Over 99.5% of all graduates go to college from this private girls prep school. Colleges attended include MIT, Harvard, Princeton, UCLA, Brown, Stanford, UNC and Yale among others.

When I was in this school form 7th to 12th grades, I had no idea that public school kids got out of class at 2:30 in the afternoon.

So, no, my point #4 is not rubbish.

[VelmaD]

126. In the US public schools tend to let out...

around 3:30 in the afternoon. Most kids generally don't have school-related activities afterwards (things like sports and band are generally a part of the actual school day). And I seriously doubt most public school students would leave the uniform on once they got home. Hell, most of the time I changed out of what I wore to school into something more comfy and I didn't have much of a school dress code back in the day.

So if kids don't want to wear a uniform while they're at home (and your experience notwithstanding I doubt most kids would) then your fourth point, that parents wouldn't have to buy as many clothes, is still bubkus.

The "civilian" thing still bothers me whether the school used the word or not. School shouldn't be like the military.

[CottonBear]

132. Why should it bother you? It wasn't your school?

Anyway, what else were they supposed to call it? It never bothered any of the students for the last 100 years so it shouldn't bother you.

The two private boys prep schools in the city were originally military schools (although not since the mid-1960s. My girls school was closely allied with the two boys schools in town so civilian clothes was a common term. The boys used to wear military uniforms. When I was in school, the boys wore kakhi pants, school blazers, school ties and white or blue button-down shirts and oxfords or penny loafers. (They still do to this day.)

The problem with US public MIDDLE & HIGH schools (and I did attend good public schools for 1st-6th grades) is that the students don;t spend enough time in class actually learning like theri counterparts in the UK, Europe and Asia.

[VelmaD]

139. I still think

you utterly fail to get the basic point. Good schools are good school regardless of what the kids wear. And all the uniforms in the world will not make a bad school one bit better. Uniforms are a way bad school boards try to distract public attention from REAL problems.

BTW, when I was in public high school I spent about 7.5 hours per day in class.

[CottonBear]

145. I never argued the point w/ you re: good/bad schools vs uniforms/no unis.

I simply said that one's parents need to buy fewer clothes if one wears a school uniform. I stand by my assertion. I know many kids in my area who wear school uniforms at both parochial and private schools. IOn fact, one of my biggest clients is a co-ed prep school with a uniform code.

[CottonBear]

136. My girls school is closely associated w/ (former military) boys schools.

The (over 100 year old) boys schools are no longer military since the mid 1960s.

[CottonBear]

140. My father was an orthopaedic surgeon and we were quite wealthy.

However, my parents did not over-indulge us with clothes. Just because they had lots of money did not mean that we were spoiled. We had a nice wardrobe of several nice dresses and dress suits for church, several pairs of sweater, tops, jeans and cords for casual wear as well as a few dressy outfits (dresses, sweater sets, blouses and slacks) for going out to dinner or to school dances and events. My parents did NOT go overboard in the clothes department. We had fewer clothes than kids do today but we had quality, classic clothes in good fabrics that wore well.

[CottonBear]

127. Class hours were until 5PM Mon.-Thu. & 3:30PM on Fri.

After school we stayed for sports (uniforms were worn for sports and gym too) and clubs and other activities. We wore our uniforms while at school. When we got home, there were at least two hours of homework each night. This was a very demanding college prep school. I was usually in uniform Mon.-Thu. evenings until I got ready for bed.

[VelmaD]

128. Well, we're not talking about prep schools now are we

We're talking about the majority of kids who go to public school. If your parents wanted you in that kind of a regimented environment then that's fine. But I think my brother and sis-in-law should have some say in what my nephew wears to his public school. I think they should be the ones to decide whether or not they want that kind of rigidity in his life. I went to the very same public schools he's attending now and we had very little in the way of a dress code and somehow I managed to get an advanced degree and didn't turn out to be a slacker or a homicidal axe murderer.

[CottonBear]

147. Public schools in other countries have longer hours and yearly calenders

than in the USA. They are in school longer each day and more days each year than US public school students.

edit: My parents wanted me to get an excellent education, which I did. My schooling helped me to gain admission into an excellent university with the top rated undergraduate program (public or private) in the USA in my field of study. I graduated high school with AP credits and then tested out of almost 3 quarters of required undergraduate classes at when I began university. I basically was a year ahead of my classmates at university plus I had very good study and research skills.

edit: I don't know why you are so offended and hostile regarding my thoughts in my original post in this thread.

No one can make you send your kids to a school (public or private) where uniforms are worn. So, if you don't like uniforms or private schools, then don't send your kids there. It's a simple solution.

I posted in this thread to have an interesting conversation and discussion with other DUers. I had no idea that anyone could possibly be offended by my memories and experiences of wearing a uniform to school.

[mondo joe]

131. I'll disagree.

I went to a school that required a uniform. We were poor - poor enough to qualify for the free school lunch program. As I recall I typically had 2 pair of school pants, 2 school shirts.

In non school clothes I probably had 2 pairs of jeans and a few shirts.

When I came home, the school clothes typically went on a hangar for the next day, or in the laundry. My jeans were more or less the same. It's not as if doing homework and having dinner in a pair of jeans required a wash.

[VelmaD]

134. Well, maybe my life was odd...

but in addition to homework...my brother and I went outside and played after school and before dinner. So our clothes got a bit more of a workout than that. I know...kids don't play outside anymore. :(

[mondo joe]

137. I have 2 kids and we do laundry pretty much daily or at least

every other day - I don't know that it would be a lot more work to throw in another pair of jeans every load anyway.

I also think, in the case of my childhood, 4 pairs of pants isn't a lot of laundry no matter how you do the math.

My kids are pretty non-materialistic and not concerned with having a lot of clothes. Just the same it blows me away to think of how much more they have than I did, and how ordinary it is to them.

[CottonBear]

144. How dirty can a child get who is supposed to be doing home work?

One can wear jeans four or five times before washing if the child doesn't trash them, wipe their hands on the legs (yuck) or roll about in the dirt.

I think that kids today have too many clothes and want us parents to spend too much on them. My 17 year old stepdaughter tried to get us to buy her an $80 bikini for spring break. :wow: :eyes:
We would not do it. She refused to shop at TJMaxx, even though the same brands are sold there that are sold at Macys, Nieman Marcus, Saks and other stores at the Lenox Square Mall in Atlanta where she wanted to shop.

[mondo joe]

163. I have to say, I do the same things with my work clothes I did

with me school uniform back then. I usually get two wears out of most anything - especially thanks to some cool fabrics that maintain their ironed appearance.

Out of the day clothes, into the jeans or shorts when I get home. Not much has changed.

[CottonBear]

165. I think you are very smart to do that! It saves more time for DU! n/t

[proud2BlibKansan]

133. We had to take our uniforms off the minute we got home

So they wouldn't get dirty. So my mom thought it saved on laundry to wear play clothes after school.

[TheBaldyMan]

130. I hated school uniform

I didn't have one and stood out like a sore thumb also it is a myth to say that it stops fashion wars. Kids will always find ways to differentiate between different cliques.

IMO Far more important is the quality of the education and the standards of the school.

[Inland]

150. They DO find ways to differentiate

but it's within a range of relatively less expensive and less troubling options. Rolling up here, leaving unbuttoned there---but it doesn't thousands hundreds of dollars and the result of expressing individuality is the same. Much as small town America, where once upon a time there weren't huge income differences but the smallest of distinctions would mark the house of the guy who was the top of the food chain.

[TheBaldyMan]

155. I'm of the opinion that you should perhaps consider just saying to

your kids that the money isn't there and they just have to live with it.

Personally I didn't come in for much prejudice because I was poor, if anything there was a kind of reverse prejudice with creeping to the rich kids endemic.

I felt sorry for them because at least my friends were my friends because of who I was, not because I had a nice car or the latest gizmo.

[Inland]

158. I don't mind saying that to my kids.

But then again, I do mind the competition and expense of keeping up with the joneses that kids, being kids, inflict on themselves.

Why not do without it altogether? What's missed? Well, then the kids can't express themselves through clothing, which is EXACTLY what is used by advertisers to make them want to buy clothes!

[TheBaldyMan]

164. It's not an expression of individuality

Teenagers are some of the most conformist groups there are. With no dress code they turn up in uniform anyway. Witness punks, goths, gangsta and all the other fashions. It's not competition they are desparately trying not to stand out as different.

God forbid they actually express an opinion that deviates from the acceptable norm in HS let alone look different. They might say they are expressing their individuality but it is an exercise in conformity in dress, speech and manner.

[Deja Q]

138. Adults can wear what they like. Children need to wear uniforms.

I recall what I saw in high schooland it made me sick.

Heavy metal concert T-shirts reading "metal up your ass". I'm not going to comment any futher except they should be instituted.

[VelmaD]

141. That could easily be solved...

with a dress code that didn't allow students to wear clothes with obscene slogans on them. Most school have those nowadays. (I know because my high school was infamous for being the first in the US to ban Spuds McKenzie shirts back in the day.)

[blm]

142. I wore one - which certainly helped disguise that my family was very poor

and my father bartered for our tuition.

[CottonBear]

146. At my girls prep school, the very wealthy and the middle class students

were equalized in appearance. I had classmates who were the hieresses to major fortunes (Krystal Restaurants, North American Royalties Oil and Olan Mills Photography among others) and who belonged to extrememely wealthy, old money families. However, Many students were middle or lower middle class and depended on loans and financial aid to attend. My upper middle- lass family was wealthy but we had nothing compares to the old money families and we had much more thatn the middle-class families.

[blm]

149. Equalizing outer appearance matters to adolescent girls, that's for sure.

.

[CottonBear]

153. My stepdaughter attends public school and wears regular clothes.

She looks just like all of her friends! It's a self-imposed unifoirm of sorts! ;)

[ShortnFiery]

152. Everyone in my daughter's private school with uniforms KNOW

exactly where each child's parents stand on the socioeconomic scale. THEY KNOW who the poor children are even-though they all wear uniforms.

The parents show off their wealth by picking up their little brats in their Mercedes, Hummer, etc. Economically we are in the upper third, however, my daughter associates with the outcasts.

I can't blame the kids (until they grow up) because the parents are snobs and the school cliques form according to socio-economics.

Although it's a lot easier to get my daughter dressed in a uniform, we're opting to send her to the public school. My most horrid dream would have my child grow up with that "entitled snobbery" that permeates the upper crust of this private school.

My point: I agree with the kids on this one - Uniforms Suck!

[CottonBear]

154. I was the only 11th grader at my private school who rode the bus.

My father had two Porsches but I did not get a car until the summer before 12th grade. His philosophy was "just because I worked hard to go to university and to become a surgeon and to make a very good living does not mean that you automatically get what ever you want." I did get my cousin's 1976 Camaro (used, of course) for my first car! It was so cool! However, I did have to wait for it!

[ShortnFiery]

159. Good for you ...

I drive a Honda.

I'm sorry for my personal problem but I make a point not to associate with anyone who shows off their wealth. Liberal or not, I just don't like that behavior. As more and more of our fellow Americans fall into abject poverty, I wouldn't be caught in an expensive car.

Class war is on the way. Bank on it. ;)

After all, we won't take our Porsche's with us. Bummer man. My nephew who races cars wishes it were otherwise. :P

Oh, my first car I paid half for (my Parents paid the other half). It was a bitchin fire red VW Superbeetle 1974. I kept it for 20 years and carefully sold it to a man that will allow me to come visit it in Phoenix, Arizona. He collects VWs.

[CottonBear]

161. I wish I had never sold my '76 Camaro. I may try to track it down.

At the time that I sold it I couldn't afford the gas. The damn thing had the biggest 8 cylinder engine that Chevy made. Top speed was about 140 MPH! It used up so much gas that you could actually see the gas gauge move as you drove around!

I love sports cars, especially ones that get good gas mileage. One of our Porsches was a 1976 912E which had a fuel injected 4 cylinder engine! It got great mileage and was a blast to drive, especially on the winding mountain roads where we lived!

[ShortnFiery]

162. To Each Our Own ... Best wishes to you and love the horse PIC n/t.

[CottonBear]

169. Thanks! Best wishes to you too! The horse is my filly's sire.

Check out my journal for pics of Cotton! :)
Thanks for the spirited conversation! :) That's what DU is all about.
BTW, I now have a Corolla and a 1978 Datsun PU truck! Great mileage but not fancy! ;)

[Nimrod2005]

148. A great idea

I wore them, my daughter wears them today...I love them!!!

[ShortnFiery]

157. That's cool ...

When I went to an America's School overseas, I was forced to wear a uniform. I honestly hated it because it not only equalizes everyone, but it also stifles individuality.

But some folks like them - the present uniform of navy blue with white shirts is attractive. However, another reason I'm moving my child out of private school is that they are going to BROWN-SHIRTS (Khaki) - I kid you not! Good Riddance Private School! <running like hell>

[Book Lover]

156. Good idea *if done right*

I wore uniforms all 12 years of my primary education, and these are the lessons I learned:

A) Girls (and boys too I guess - I went to girls' schools) will still find a way to buy expensive shit to show off - socks, hair crap, accessories.

B) Don't get locked into a deal with a uniform manufacturer. My family and later, I, was forced to buy expensive clothing made from polyester that fell apart within a year because the Sisters of St Joseph didn't have a strong negotiator on their side.

C) Because they will do it anyway, I suggest setting district policy to allow kids to change into their uniforms when they get to school.

[knitter4democracy]

166. I've taught in both uniform and non-uniform schools.

I would rather teach with uniforms any day of the week.

I was against them until the only job I could get was in Catholic schools and had to deal with them. Teens only have so much energy to fight the system, and frankly, I'd rather they fight me on the uniform than on other things. The kids do everything they can to walk the line on the uniform code and be individual, and that's a much easier fight than enforcing a more nebulous dress code or other stuff they like to fight you on.

My daughter's at a Catholic school now, and I love her uniform code. It's fair, cheap, and they even have a room in the basement where you can donate your old ones for families to buy for just a couple of bucks--much better in the elementaries where kids go through sizes super fast.

If you want, I could find a way to get you my daughter's school code. It's very fair, well-written, and it works pretty well. They don't make you buy all sorts of shoes and skirts and whatever. It's fairly flexible and yet still affordable.